g00n77

meh living in the now is great but does not always suit the situation....sure we have machines that cut wood for us....but if all those machines broke we would need a classic carpenter/lumberjack to show us how to do it the old way...so yea we come up with new better ways of doing things. but somone needs to keep the old ways too....just in case zombies ever take over

of coarse it would get borring eventually...like when team slayer gets borring i switch to invasion...online space wars would simply ad a variety. which is a good thing...we would be aBLe to test our mettle as pilots in dogfights. as of now pilots mostly just drop bombs or position gunners....some dogfighting would be awsome.

yea it takes skill like any other game but it has been proven that the game takes less....simply because it has little to no meta game...just pick the best weapon (FA MAS) then learn the maps and thats pretty much the whole meta game...in reach the meta game takes years to learn..you have to learn how to drop somones shields with X weapon and then switch to Y weapon to drop their health...alot of stuff like this in halo and it adds tons to the metagame. so yes in theory cod takes skill like any other game...but when u compare to other skill based games and compare the metagames it actually is way dumbed down.. so yea a skilled cod player is going to beat a 4 year old everytime but cod as a whole promotes 4 year old players...in reach a 4 year old would get frustrated and go play SP or firefight instead...COD is an fps boiled down to the base mechanics. spawn, run out, die, spawn instantly. it has removed spawn timers, map weapon placement ect. and yea thats not a bad thing but it still is unarguably easier to learn and master then halo is.. and yes you can get a killshot on halo by shooting somone in the toe...but thats only if you already have them down to low health. in cod i shot somone in the toe with a pistol and he died in one bullet (he had full health and had just spawned) so you can see the difference. in halo once i drop somones shield i can hit them in the head for a instant kill or shoot them 3 times in the toe for a delayed kill....even if a guy has full health in COD it doesnt matter if i hit him in the head or in the toe with that pistol i still get a kill. seems odd in a game where your health regenerates. why even have regenerating health if you cant even take a shot to the toe...might as well make the game one shot kills for any weapon... keep in mind that my cod observations are based on hardcore mode and i actually havent played blackops just MW2....and i would also like to point out that i have nothing against cod...the game is fairly polished....i just prefer halo: reach. i say we stop talking about how much skill cod does or doesnt take as we are getting kinda off topic at this point =P. i thought this thread was about bloom not skill. XD

i agree....i just wish their was a way to get highres halo2. a friend on this thread pointed out that you cant just replace the games textures with highres ones. because if we could a simple mod would make the game have awesome graphics...but since its not possible at this time we pretty much have microsoft and microsoft only to give us a high res version of halo2. i just get tired of replaying halo2 since it now has the worst graphics in the series...3 and odst have meh graphics but after your eyes adjust they look fine...reach and CE aniversary have awesome graphics...but halo2 is now the worst. i say microsoft hires a small team from japan to rebuild halo2 on the reach engine...then atleast the whole trilogy will have current gen visuals rather then halo2 being left out in the dark.

because the guns in reach have bigger bullets then the ones today. the DMR is a futuristic armour penetrating big ass gun. a normal civilian with no armor would shatter his shoulder bones with continuous fire so i would imagine that a spartan would have a little recoil....and thats exactly what they do have...a little recoil..not alot....the weapons today have to penetrate walls at best. to enter flesh it doesnt reqire a very big round...but to an elite an AK47 round would tickel his armor. that is why the assault rifles in halo games are close range...because they are fireing big rounds and lose accuracy as a direct result...so sure if you are fireing a peashooter like the ones we have now then you can get away with little to no recoil...but if you are fireing a rifle made to destroy banshees with continuous fire then i would imagine you would get some kick...just sayin...the BR in halo3 had almost no noticeable recoil, but the BR cannot take down a banshee as well as a DMR so i can see why. its an even trade of power for accuracy and vise versa it seems.

you have a point but if you find a cheesy tactic like camping for example it can get you alot more kills then the same cheesiness would in reach. his point is that in cod to kill an enemy you simply have to shoot them in any part of their body. why would you try and dodge bullets? better to find a good spot or just run around knifing people. in halo their are several ways of taking down an enemy. like weakening them with a nade then finishing them with gunfire....i have had my shields dropped way in advance yet i still win that battle because i used the enviroment to my advantage. their are dozens of kill strategies in reach like useing the plasma pistol for example. the shield system promotes strategy and allowes bungie to add weapons that are made for shield dropping. in cod its a bunch of dudes with FA MAS assault rifles running around trying to get killstreaks. thats pretty much as far as the strategy goes in cod and team work doesnt even matter that much in that game. cod promotes lone wolf play and reach promotes team play especially in non slayer gametypes like invasion. comparing reach to cod is like comparing battlefeild to cod....battlefeild has more strategy and highly promotes teamwork. in battlefeild you can spawn on your team and revive people or repair their vehicles... even snipers are teamplayers because they can mark targets and use motion mines to show when people are coming or even get C4 and help take a point close range. hell snipers can even run around with shotguns if they so choose....halo reach on invasion for example has a simular team feel. it takes teamwork to capture/defend a base and the armor abilities promote teamwork aswell....one guy can get drop sheild and heal everyone while your teamate spawns on you with an energy sword and places a hologram inside the bubblesheild...then even if somone comes with a shotgun they wont know which sword guy to aim at because one is a hologram. That is just one example of teamplay on reach objective games.

well sometimes at closer ranges it seems that spamming is the best solution but i find it more effective instead to get a good rhythm going. you need to find the right combo of spamming and pacing...usually i try and get a few well placed headshots...then spam my way home..but it depends on the situation. that's why i think bloom adds strategy. if you can manipulate the bloom you can get kills faster then if someone is spamming or even pacing...its all about rhythm and timing. if you listen to fire you can tell what kind of battle is going on...if you hear spamming then someone is panicking..if you hear casual pacing then someone is sniping with the DMR. it also helps the battle sounds to be more realistic...on halo3 you would hear the same string of BR fire at the same pace constantly...it felt unrealistic especially from far distance...but now you hear a variety of different speeds in gunfire from across the map...something like this is a small detail but it adds lots to the quality of the awesome reach sound effects and also helps with MP immersion

DONT GIVE MICROSOFT IDEAS!!!

"i say what i mean...and mean what i say" -master chief oh wait thats chuck norris....meh same difference....

no you didnt memorize it because he only says the pool to drown in part once...not twice...other then that your spot on good job!

the reason you can control your recoil by aiming in cod is because the guns have hardly any recoil. in any hardcore game...counter strike for example...spamming the trigger will amost always get you killed in most situations. you shouldnt really be able to control your recoil because that is the nature of recoil. in real life when a gun recoils it throws off your aim slightly. you have to re adjust your aim and then fire again...that is what bloom effectivly simulates...cod is a game that has fake bloom. in cod even if you had no crossair on the screen you would still hit people most of the time. the guns shoot in a perfect line alot of the time. even when fireing from the hip...in real life you have to keep calm and breath...not hold down your trigger like a madman. or you will waist all your ammo and get killed...thats just how guns work..bungie was tired of having guns that shoot 99% straight with little to no recoil.

johnson halo CE: hold me *grabs elites butt* johnson halo 2: oh i know what da ladies like! *calks back slider on turret* johnson halo3: send me out...with a bang! *dies*

arby: we must go...the brutes have our scent. johnson: they must love the smell of bulgari...yea im doin a lil product placement...I GADDA GET PAYED TOO! (hands MC assault rifle) halo 3: legendary variant 4

EASY- Men..keep your eyes down range, fingers on your triggers, and we all go home in one piece. NORMAL- once again it is our job to finish what the fly boys started! We are leaving this ship platoon! and engaging the covenant on solid ground! When we meet the enemy we will rip their skulls from their spines and toss em away laughin! HEROIC- Men, here's where we show those split chinned, squid head sons of ******* that they could not have picked a worse enemy then the human RACE! We are going to blow the hell out of those dumb bugs until we don't have anything left to shoot em WITH! AND THEN WE ARE GOING TO STRANGLE THEM WITH THEIR OWN... LIVIN... GUTS! LEGENDARY- Men we led those dumb bugs out to the middle of nowhere to keep them from getting their FILTHY claws on earth! But we stumbled on ta somthin that their so hot for that their scramblin ova eachotha to get it! WELL I DON'T CARE IF ITS GODS OWN ANTI SON OF A ***** MACHINE! OR A GIANT HULA HOOP! WHERE NOT GANNA LET EM HAVE IT! WHAT WE WILL LET EM HAVE IS A BELLY FULL OF LEAD, AND A POOL OF THEIR OWN BLOOD TO DROWN IN..........AM I RIGHT MARINES! sir yes sir! mmhmmm... damn right i am.... sarge johnson's pre battle speach: halo CE. all difficulties

marine 1: *knock knock* HEY OPEN UP! marine behind door: password! marine 1: what? marine behind door: i need the password! marine 1: you gadda be kidding me what password?? marine behind door: the password! they gave it out at the staff meeting fifteen minutes ago! marine 1: meeting! what meeting? i was out here! marine behind door: im not supposed to let anyone in without it! marine 1: if the staff meeting just ended then no one out here is going to know the fricken password, NOW OPEN UP...WE NEED AMMO AND THE CHEIF IS OUT HERE!..... marine behind door:........does he know the password? marine 1: HE WASNT AT THE MEETING EITHER!!!! (keeps pounding on door) rooster teeth easter egg: halo3

when you spend all your time making games it gets hard to get good at them. most of bungie probly sucks at halo but im sure their are a few bungie team members that would woop up on you.

halo hasnt been realistic but reach seems to be the most realistic in the series. well certain armor abilities might be unrealistic but i would like to think that if we ever made soldiers like spartans that the combat would be fairly simular. the us army already has somthing like a spartan lazer mounted on planes and also they have talked about the new smart grenade launchers that seem to work like the reach grenade launcher. it has smart grenades that allow you to detonate them after they get behind your enemys cover....pretty nifty...and they stole it from halo.

i can aim fine...and yes i have dodged rockets....and how can you hit a sprinter when he runs into a base? you have more of a chance to hit someone in armor lock then you do somone with sprint because when somone armor locks it gives you a chance to reposition yourself at the best possible angle for a kill....i dont get frustratd when people armor lock because o know how to beat them. sprint is more frustrating because i get them to one shot and they take cover and recharge.

agreed

how about armor lock still protects form explosions/vehicles, melees sniper fire. but not small arms bullet fire? for example somone throws a nade and you lock. then you have to unlock or he is just ganna pelt you with DMR rounds?

i somewhat agree with this. im fine with armor lock 99% of the time. but when an entire team uses it on invasion it can get slightly frustrating. meyb a two or 3 player limit at a time for armor lock.

i agree with you guys. if you have a jetpack and someone locks their armor then you can hover above them just out of melee range and do anything from stick them with a plasma to melee. i have even gotten a few free assassinations with this tactic. the armor locker cant seem to aim up fast enough after coming out of lock...this is just one basic strategy against armor lock. armor lock is easy to use but even when mastered is not fullproof. however when sprint and evade are mastered they can be used in any situation. the downside to armor lock is that you cant move while locked. use that to your advantage. it works 95% of the time....for me anyway

oh yea lets see what we get when we replace armor lock with sprint/evade advantages of sprint and evade -allows you to dodge rockets and grenades -allows you to run faster then everyone else for almost 10 seconds. -allows to to dodge massive damage. -can be used to easily board vehicles. -can be used to cheaply run in and double melee -your health and sheild can regen while using them -allows you to get easy assassinations because by the time they see you on motion tracker its too late. -increases the effectivness of already effective weapons such as sword grav hammer and shotgun. do you get sick of getting a guy down to one shot and he just sprints away? then when u chase him his teamate starts shooting you and by that time hes no longer one shot. you asked me to compare sprint to armor lock and i did. i could probably do it with cloak too. for example cloak jams radar so you could be up against 5 guys for all you know. you get the cloaker down to one shot only to be assassinated by his teamate because motion tracker was blind. you see how this crappy argument can be applied to any armor ability but since you dont know ho to play against armor lockers you are biased. you would never apply that argument to sprint because you are used to sprint. i can even apply that argument to hologram or even certain weapons, or even crouching if i got crafty. the point is you cant use that argument unless your argument is to remove all AA's. and i have not heard any good reasons to remove them. so your argument is effectivly moot

he pretty much has the same argument as you. i dont think bloom is good because its "the new thing" i think its good because its fun and adds strategy to the game. instead of being like halo3 where everyone uses the BR and no other weapon it helps promote the use of all the awsome weapons that bungie added to the game(you are forced to think up different tactics other then get the BR and aim 4 the head). his argument was that spamming randomizes your shots, he says by randomizing your shots you will do better then if you pace them. not true. you COULD. but its a BIG gamble. and i dont gamble. if everyone is gambling then they all have the same chance to win. but if im counting cards then i have a much higher chance of winning. The trick is knowing when to pace and when to spam. furthermore he stated that he loves bloom at long range but not at close. this statment kills his argument because at close range you are supposed to spam the dmr. the dmr is more of an assasult rifle at close range then anything...this is how bungie wanted the DMR to behave. as he said its a different weapon then the BR. if you want the BR then play halo3. without bloom their would still be spam. the only difference is people would aim for the body, then when sheilds drop aim for the head and get kills much faster. IMO your skill is not determined by your ability to get headshots. its on your ability to adjust and adapt to any situation, and have disipline of mastery of all weapons not just the BR disipline. if you only want to use the BR then why put any other weapons into the game? what if you where the last man defending your flag and all you have is a plasma pistol? well then your headshot skills arent going to help you. reach reqires a different skillset then halo3 did. and thats why people are raging because even months later they still connot adjust...pathetic... my point against his argument is that when i spam the DMR i tend to miss and hit nothing...sure their is a chance that i could hit. but it rarely happens. when i pace my shots i always hit. at close range i spam any weapon because i am dealing with a bigger target so common scents dictates spamming is the best option...still even at close range you probably are better off pacing your shots because you are more likely to get 5 headshots pacing then the enemy is spamming. it is up to the player to decide the best choice based on the situation. if you are close range against a single spamming enemy then you can pace headshots...if you are surrouded by enemy then spam and hope for the best. decision making of this nature is a skillset like it or not. i think bloom should be tweaked or modified but removing it will only break the DMR in a different way. we need to think of some other solution then removing bloom outright. even without bloom the recoil will allow for spamming so meyb the solution is to lower the amount of recoil but keep the bloom the same. at anyrate 343 is removing bloom from certain playlists. so i think this debate is over. but it was a good debate with good points on both sides and hopefully it will help 343 come up with a solution that pleases both sides of the debate. the game is fair with bloom, and thats all i care about is fairness and the game being balanced but also fun. i fear that removing the recoil from the DMR and making it spot on accurate with continuous fire will not only make the game less fun but unbalace it aswell. thats why i want bloom tweaked. the guy in the video says the pistol bloom is perfect. meyb making the DMR bloom more like the pistol bloom will end this debate. but i think your problems lie more with the bullet spread then simply the bloom itself. removing the bloom wont effect the spread so shot randomizing will still happen when spamming. and im not sure (from a technical standpoint) if changing the bullet spread is even possible. but i cant say forsure. BTW insults dont spice up the debate they just make you sound like a child who cant hold his tongue. and teabagging does not piss people off anymore. it simply motivates them to pwn you harder then they already are. all teabagging does is prove that you can mash your thumbstick. it breaks your controller slowly and makes you look dumb. congratz! you can mash your thumbstick! should i give you a medal? a better insult would be to mellee your fallen enemys or put some extra bullets into their dead bodies. personally after i stick someone with a plasma i like to stick them with another one. sure the first one will kill them and you waist a nade. but hitting them with the second just adds insult to injury. they blow up so big and the fact that they just got stuck twice always lowers their moral. in real life you better make sure your enemy is dead before you teabag. or you could get shot in the nuts....just saying...

it means alot to me too. if halo was sucked into a vortex i would cry. but i wouldnt kill my self. i was just telling him that its only halo because he seemed a little stressed. we should all lighten up. even if armor lock and bloom make the game too easy or promote luck (which they do not). they are still fun mechanics. and im going to get alot of flak for this. but i would rather have a fun unbalanced game then a boring balanced game. not that armor lock unbalances the game and dont get me wrong i would still find the game fun without AL or bloom. but i think you get my point. bungie makes games that THEY love to play. they dont craft their games for basement dwellers. sure they give the basement dwellers some playlists because their is no reason why they shouldnt. but the overall game experiance is meant to be fun and challenging. not just challenging. bungie makes their games to their own taste and thats why the games are so polished. thats what made halo1 so good. halo1 is reguarded by most as the best in the series. and that is because they didnt have 20 billion fans all chattering and expecting this and that. they where free of a fanbase so they just made a game that they wanted to play and said hey it comes with your xbox go check it out. thats what made the game so amazing even ten years later. they made gameplay that passed the test of time. 343 doesnt even have to change the gameplay, all they had to do was give the game some new paint. the gameplay still holds up even against modern shooters and IMO thats what makes halo reach good. bungie just went nuts and made features that they thought was fun. but i guess when people pay 60$ they expect a certain amount of fanservice. when i pay 60$ all i expect is a polished game...even if it is an entirely different game then the previous. as long as its a polished game. and i 100% trust bungie to make a polished game after playing their past five games. that is why im exited for their new IP. hell halo2 was the most unpolished halo game in the series and it was still epic. it just goes to show that bungie can make a good game even with major time constraints and a corporation breathing down their backs.