BushTucka

lol try the waypoint forums you might get along with everyone there better dude

Firefight sniper rifles need 24/24 ammo to begin with. It cannot make use of the resupply crates and takes 3 headshots to kill an ultra on heroic, which is difficult enough because they are fast moving and jumpy, but they will also run away and recharge shields. Currently snipers start with 12/24 ammo. Allowing them to make use of the resuply ammo crates would be a bit OP, as with more than one sniper on the team with unlimited sniper ammo could reak havoc. Also, it would make the snipers from weapon drops useless if players spawning with snipers in custom firefight don't need to search for more ammo. Maybe a way for the author to limit how many people on one team can actively be using each loadout at one time (limit loadout 1 to 1 person at a time, limit loadout 2 to 4 people at a time etc) for both custom firefight and MP. (This info added to first post for new readers).

Its not unfair, everyone has access to it. Sure it has some advantages over sprint and holgram, as it has major disadvatages as well (in straight up combat you are slower, can't use a tricky hologram and if you use jetpack you are much easier to hit because you are a bigger target.)

Silly me, just remembered the brutes in campaign will often use plasma repeaters as well. Therefore if the plasma repeater was to get a shield damage buff and the spiker was to get a flesh damage buff but shield damage nerf, there would be no upset to the balance of the campaign, while improving multiplayer balance and the authenticity of the weapons in all modes. I'm interested to hear what everyone else thinks should happen to these weapons to balance out multiplayer with the new TU settings, campaign and firefight, and keeping all the weapons unique (i.e. not clones of each other.): Assault Rifle: Spiker: Plasma Rifle: Plasma Repeater: Further reasons as to why the weapon changes are important and should be applied added to first post and here also: "One exceptionally important fact to note is that in the development of Reach, Bungie made it very clear that they are making sure no weapons will be obsolete. The beam rifle was just a crappy sniper, so they cut it and put a scope on the sentinal beam and made the focus rifle, still a very effective long range weapon but must be used differently. The SMG? Crappy AR clone with slight differences like ammo capacity, it was cut for reach. The mauler? Crappy shotgun that could no longer be dual wielded - cut because obsolete. The Brute shot, cut because too similar to the more common concusion rifle, although the brute shot will no doubt feature in halo 4 when brutes become the main enemy again. The spiker? Clone of plasma rifle on the damage tables (in DPS). Not cut. BUT the repeater was added so the covenant had a weapon capable of damaging health more than shields AND because they wanted a AR counter part. Why they shoved both those of those purposes into the repeater when they had an obsolete spiker beats me. We have an obsolete spiker weapon which NEEDS to be changed to live up to words said in the development process and with the spiker getting its health damage buff (and shield damage nerf) the repeaters second purpose of being primarily effective against unsheilded targets is no longer needed in campaign, meaning the spiker should be free to recieve these tweaks. The repeater still needs to be a multiplayer equivilent, and really with the hitscan of the AR and its [repeater's] inconsistent rate of fire it could do with a buff, and the buff can only logically be applied to shield damage. The plasma rifle will still be much more effective against shields, will have more ammo and no bloom balancing it against the repeater. Spiker while now less effective against shields is quite capable against unshielded targets making it more authentic and believeable in campaign/firefight and unique (and effective as a sidearm) in multiplayer."

First comment updated with 50% and also updated spiker vs plasma rifle and spiker vs AR info and how it could be changed. "Spiker: Needs slight damage buff (health, not shields) and increased melee damage (on par with the RB/B melee attack of the grav hammer) and to keep it balanced with plasma rifle, slight shield damage nerf. The increased damage should be just enough to allow this weapon to beat an AR so long as every shot hits. This will still force the players to use the spiker only in very close quarters where neither the spikers slow projectiles or horrible accuracy will have too much of an effect on the weapon. The increased damage melee will give this weapon a small advantage over other automatic weapons in hand to hand combat and this is fair seeing as the weapon is still probably the worst auto weapon with all the above settings in play. And besides it has dual blades c'mon it should be better than the rest Imagine not getting to use the chainsaw on the lancer in gears of war, or being able to use it but it only does the same as the hammerburst melee! It is currently a plasma rifle clone, with slightly more ammo and firing times (before reload/overheat) and more accuracy, but will be beaten as the rifle increases ROF with continued use and will kill just faster. With a slightly increased kill time (takes a little to deplete shields, but much quicker to deplete health) it will, like the plasma rifle be capable of matching the AR in extreme CQB, and with slightly (not extreme, otherwise campaign will become unbalanced) adjust shield and flesh damage stats, the weapon could finally become unique and have its own purpose, eg as a sidearm or cqb weapon with a sick melee damage boost. So while the kill time will only be marginally greater still making it and the plasma rifle inferior at most ranges, these two weapons are balance out against the assault rifle due to not having bloom, the plasma rifle dropping shields faster and leading to a melee kill quicker, the spiker having more ammo and time before reloading, and also a sick melee capability should the next TU include 50% melee damage."

Tried out 50% melee with bleedthrough on and off, and I prefere them to 75% melee. You were right about the DMR only taking one shot. 343i promised they would not return to using bleedthrough after the bad feedback it got from most players (some are still diehard fans) and while I personally don't mind bleedthrough (love anniversary mode, love halo 3, loved halo 1 and 2 on pc as well) I don't think it has a place in Reach, but not because that's my personal preference, I actually believe not having bleedthrough helps make the game better. For example, in halo 3 with enough practise you would know how many bullets to shoot into someone before you meleed, (if that's how it's spelt) but sometimes you would both die, sometimes with a little lag it was unclear who should have won or it would appear the wrong person won - the formula seemed decent on paper, but online lag is unfortunately inevitable. Also, with the buffed frag grenades in Reach, they become nukes with bleedthrough on. Whereas without bleedthrough, whether you are lagging or not (and not being sure you have pumped enough lead into someone) you KNOW to only melee when the shields pop, you know if your shields are popped by a melee not to melee back because you won't kill and you should back up while firing before engaging in melee combat. In short, no bleedthrough makes it easier to clarify melee kills, and allows the individual skill of a player to become a more important factor to his survival. One good and experienced player can take on two crappier players in a melee battle if he has the skill over them in reach, which will not be possible with bleedthrough on. And Yeah I knew the plasma repeater did more damage to health than shields, and the spiker more to shields than health (almost identical plasma rifle clone), which is why I am pushing for the spiker to be swapped around so it could have a more unique purpose, and why I am pushing for it to be changed. The plasma repeater needs the extra shield killing power, just a little bit so that it isn't at such a massive disadvantage due to its innaccuracy and non-hitscan rounds. The assault rifle actually has the damage per second capabilities to kill DMR users at close range, but you really have to land every round which means short controlled bursts. Unfortunately with moving opponents and burst fire, not enough bullets will land IN TIME TO KILL FIRST unless you are at really close range, but with reduced bloom on the assault rifle, it could once again become a very capable medium close range weapon in the hands on an experienced user. And if you don't burst fire you might do slightly more damage, but will run out of ammo before you kill (since not all of them hit) and will be headshotted while reloading. Back to the topic of meleeing when you said bleedthrough is better than pumping ten rounds into someone, meleeing (only to reduce their shields fully) and then melee again to kill. With 100% melee damage it is really just a common fact not to melee unless they have no shields or if it's one on one and you can get the melee off first (double melee), but with 50% melee I can see where you're coming from, but I think this still benifits the game: Normally 3 melees to kill = no double melee tactic (I mean sprint up to shooting opponent then quickly double melee, at close quarters there is nothing really that cheap about this tactic, if you are on low shields it is actually quite dangerous due to melee cooldown times.) No bleedthrough means even with 1% shield still takes 2 melees to kill. = keeps the original clarity of reach's melee system, skill is more important factor, need to learn to time melees correctly and think. 50% melee damage = possible to shoot while closing the distance and then stun with melee, kill with follow up melee. ^ sounds like a double melee huh? Think about it for a bit longer though, the double melee problem is people sprinting up to an enemy and quickly meleeing twice to kill. With 50% melee damage and no bleedthrough, you get a system where double melee is no longer possible to exploit from the get go, and players looking to double melee must now think about how many shots they must pump into their target first (halo 3 anyone?) before killing them with the double melee combo. ^^The double melee can be countered by shooting them into very low shields first, when they melee you back up and shoot a quick burst to drop shields then quickly melee while their melee cooldown is still in play. Same with 50% melee, but atleast they need to (halo 3 style) count their rounds before going for the (double) melee kill. In short, no more sprint to double melee cheapskates, keep reach's melee clarity, keep the skill involved in melee battles of reach, add in the halo 3 'shoot precise amount of rounds into enemy before melee for best effects' that was missing from reach. All this achieved by keeping bleedthrough off, keeping majority happy while 343i doesn't go back on their promise. @Lord Takaa, I know it seems odd not having max 2shot melee to kill, especially if you have only started halo on the 360 with halo 3, but hear me out here. First up, sorry for sounding like an annoying salesperson trying to sell you the idea Ok, so with 50% melee (or 75 or whatever) you probably think 3 melees is so different to both halo reach and halo 3 and won't feel right and will just **** up the basic halo formula (halo 3 onwards). Wrong! In halo reach the 2 shot melee formula was not changed, but the shoot first melee tactics were changed slightly but had a big impact on the game. If you are a default/vanilla reach player, you by now would know to time your melees, unless they are right infront of you already shooting and double melee is your only option, you wouldn't melee someone until their shields are popped. Same with 50% melee damage, as weapons are still at 100% damage and drop shields and health normally. So if you are effective with melee and can think and time it correctly everytime (not just always go for the melee and sometimes get the kill due to no shields, sometimes die due to shields), then you will think of 50% melee as no different. The shoot then double melee combo with 50% melee also can be countered in the exact same way you would counter a sprint double melee, but the guy isn't sprinting and is easier to hit, effectively making it easier to drop his shields down so low that when he drops your shields with a melee you can fire a quick burst and melee him all before he can do a follow up melee. 50% melee gets rid of cheap tactics, keeps the core REACH gameplay aspects, brings in a cool aspect of halo 3 gameplay and allows for more balance as well. Give it a shot in custom games with TU settings instead of anniversary settings, I find the quick recharge, quick player speed and the super pistol on anniversary change the core gameplay more than 50% melee, this is only apparent though when you get rid of those settings but keep 50% melee. Anyway if you still don't like it heaps after testing it, I could understand it's not your preference, but bleedthrough wont be added to vanilla or TU reach again, and in terms of balancing weapons (spiker and hammer), the only other ways would be to either add bleedthrough to ONLY THE MELEE OF ONLY THE SPIKER AND HAMMER but not their other damage or the melee or damage of any other gun. This would be more complicated (I can lay money the bleedthrough value is applied somewhere in the universal damage formula meaning it will affect all weapons and melee, and changing it to only affect the melee of two weapons would require rewritting some parts of the formula, and even then it would be too much of a hassle to change. The other way would be decreasing the melee cooldown of the spiker and hammer, but this would 1. make the spiker and zero ammo hammer even deadlier sprint - double melee combo weapons (so basically run out of grav ammo, and you still have a one hit weapon due to sprint and less cooldown making the double melee impossible to counter) and 2. would be retarded for the hammer, I mean sword yeah, spiker yeah, but hammer? That thing ways a tonne. 3. If spiker melee cooldown reduced, then the cooldown of the plasma rifle, plasma pistol, magnum and sword would have to be increased. Bayonettes don't make your weapon faster, it's the weight of the weapon (backstory: spiker very heavy, much heavier than AR apparently) and not only would decreasing cooldown of other weapons defeat the purpose of this update, but it would further imbalance the game, make double melee impossible to counter with most weapons, AND overpower the sword, which is at a perfect setting at the moment where players have to toss up between using either lunge or melee. For future games there are a couple wacky ideas that (in the unlikely event of them being passed because it would stray too far from the halo feel) bladed weapons like the hammer, spiker, brute shot and mauler (halo 4 set after halo 3 so brute shot and mauler probably make a reaccurance) could have instant melee kills with the B/RB buttons but would act like an assasination, they take time to complete leaving the operator defencless. But this is impossible for halo reach at the moment, as the game has already been shipped they aren't going to create whole new annimations or game changing features like this at this stage, and another game is currently being worked on. I don't see this being accepted very well by the community either to be honest Sorry for massive comments guys, but hey the arguements are more than the average "because i like it" or "it ruins the game but im not going to include a reason" trend plaguing forums everywhere at the moment

Thanks man, and another long message to follow... Yeah I see where you are coming from, but playlists are constantly being updated, and the most difficult thing about editing base values (weapon stats, melee damage, shield recharge rate, jump height etc) is to test the changes, but hey these stat tweaks are very minor and are TU exclusive too, unlike the occasional nerf or buff of weapons such as the assault rifle that just gets thrown in with the next patch. ZB TU playlist is for beta testing new features and ideas that are far more game changing than slightly increased damage or reducing recoil. And on the topic of the spiker... It has nearly identical DPS to the plasma rifle, but due to the increased rate of fire after continued usage the plasma rifle will win (only just) to the spiker. Spiker has a bigger mag, less spread believe it or not and it also can fire continuously for 6.5 seconds before needing to reload; 2 seconds longer than the plasma rifle before it over heats. On paper it is sort of like comparing the DMR with the NR. The plasma rifle has an only marginably quicker kill time, but is offset by its low capacity and less room for error than its slightly less powerful counterpart, the spiker. Thing is, kill time is not important as these weapons will only be picked to drop shields at close range before swapping to a headshot weapon, throwing a grenade, or meleeing; all to finish off the opponent. They are being used only at range where the accuracy of the weapon (or lack of it!) is not really making much difference, without 50-90%(75%is best) melee damage and additional melee damage the spiker should have (but doesn't) there is no real difference between the two weapons except the slight additional damage of the PR but slightly greater time firing at full auto befoe reload/overheat of the spiker. Ingame this makes little, if any difference. The difference between the two guns is nearly entirely cosmetic, and with the smae tactics, roles and DPS, one should be adjusted, common sense (plasma vs shields, barbaric spikes vs flesh), backstory (elites use plasma rifle against other shielded elites in their own wars, brutes developed weapons to use against other brutes without shields but some with armor (penatrated by spikes though) and all are very tough (damage resilient) and less consequences if the spiker is tweaked but are not happy with results (spiker is rarer than the plasma rifle to encounter in all modes). With this knowledge I think the spiker could do with a bigger damage buff (nothing too drastic but noticable none the less) but slight reduction to damage dealt against shields. Both weapons have the same role currently; to shoot really quickly at close targets while closing the distance for a melee or to drop shields and headshot/super combine. This would keep the weaons even and balanced by technically not changing the kill times (only very slightly increasing the spikers kill time), accuracy, recoil or bloom, but give weapons a unique feel and slighlt change their roles. Ultimately the spiker should still keep its kill time just slightly shorter than it is now, but with reduced shield damage and increased health damage, so it will feel unique and not just be a plasma rifle clone with more room for error but slightly less performance.

(TL;DR near bottom of page, but read through this if you want to know the reasons behind my suggestions, they are all reasonable, fair, and have been tested.) First of all the latest TU is really sweet. The armor lock has been nerfed and is not only unable to be exploited, but actually a fun aspect of the game now. The bleedthrough has been removed, which is great because REACH originally had no bleedthrough and this really helped with clarification of melee kills, along with allowing individual skill to play a larger role in deciding who comes out on top in cqb encounters! Some will complain that bleedthrough fixed the double melee problem, I will get to this problem further on, but in direct response to those pro-bleedthrough, it's addition opens up the window to loads more issues and gameplay inbalances. Ok onto the the topic of bloom. It seems there are three popular settings each with their own die hard fans. 100%, 85% and 0%. At first I liked 100% bloom, I found the DMR and the NR required more skill to use effectivly, but I have got to say the 85% bloom setting really evens out the game so that everyone gets a shot at the DMR and kicking ass. And those more skilled with it before will still be skilled with it now, but don't have to worry about their targets coming out from cover to shoot until their shields are dropped and not being able to take the final shot at them before they escape due to the higher bloom. I tell you that was far more annoying than the times people used AL against me in CQB. The TU features 85% bloom and I think after a bit of credit bribing to get people to try out and get used to these new settings, people are loving it. I personally believe it adds to the game and should stay in future TUs. Infact all current TU features should stay the same if you ask me. But I do have some new suggestions which have already been touched on with other playlists such as classic anniversary. Melee damage in classic anniverary is set to about 50%, not only does this mimic Halo CE, but it also means that any player on full health and shields requires 3 melees to kill. So after screwing with these settings in custom games I found that 50% is indeed a great value to keep melee on simply because it requires 3 hits to kill, but unlike on 90% or 75% where it also takes 3 hits to kill, you are going to need more than a quick AR burst/dmr headshot before 2 follow up melees to down a player with half a brain. Incase I dragged that sentence on for too long and it made no sense, this means that DOUBLE MELEE WILL NO LONGER OCCUR!!! (yay) and the best thing is WE CAN STILL KEEP BLEEDTHROUGH OFF!!! And as a bonus to those who enjoy paying extra attention to detail/ those with OCD who like to believe every weapon should have a role in the game (both describe me really well ), the gravity hammer's melee attack (with the RB or B button not the RT trigger) still takes 2 shots to kill rather than three thanks to its massive blade. Awesome! This got me thinking about the spiker. Poor old spiker... It has less DPS than the AR, slow moving bullets (or spikes whatever), terrible accuracy and to top it off the bayonette only gives the spiker's melee attack extra oompf in campaign. That's right with 50% melee, the spiker does the same damage to a fully shielded sparten as an AR. So all in all the spiker is just a bad AR in every way. This got me thinking about how other weapons might not be balanced. And I straight away jumped back to how much better the DMR and NR are with 85% bloom. They can quite easilly take out an AR or Plasma Repeater (and ofcourse spiker) in close range where the auto weapons should dominate. In tight quarters the AR/Plasma Repeater will win still, but at close range in open ground the DMR/NR will usually rip through automatic users. So here are a list of weapon tweaks that I think know will balance the game while keeping current TU bloom and no-bleedthrough settings how they are now: awesome:) Assault Rifle: Recoil/bloom needs to be toned down by a small fraction, nothing too drastic. Damage is actually at a good level if you make your shots count and burst your weapon. The thing is in order to land every shot on a DMR user (the only way to kill them if they are landing every headshot QUICKLY) your bursts are forced to be too short and too close of range. If the recoil/ crosshair bloom was to be toned down a small fraction, it would make ALL the difference. No joke when testing I found I got my friends down to 1 health bar each time as long as they landed every headshot and killed me first. This still requires control and skill on the AR user's behalf, but it makes it possible against skilled DMR users who are starting to venture into the automatic range domain with their reduced bloom. Plasma Repeater: This weapon needs a slight increase in damage dealt to shields. This is because while it can in theory beat an AR if every shot lands (only just), the thing is it isn't hitscan, and enemies don't stand still which means the weapon will overheat when fired more (even in bursts) and slow down. Once the weapon has started to slow it will lose outright to an AR unless there are teammates around etc. The Plasma Repeater needs to be more effective against shields, even if the buff is slight, it will still make a difference and balance the gun. Spiker: Needs slight damage buff (health, not shields) and increased melee damage (on par with the RB/B melee attack of the grav hammer) and to keep it balanced with plasma rifle, slight shield damage nerf. The increased damage should be just enough to allow this weapon to beat an AR so long as every shot hits. This will still force the players to use the spiker only in very close quarters where neither the spikers slow projectiles or horrible accuracy will have too much of an effect on the weapon. The increased damage melee will give this weapon a small advantage over other automatic weapons in hand to hand combat and this is fair seeing as the weapon is still probably the worst auto weapon with all the above settings in play. And besides it has dual blades c'mon it should be better than the rest Imagine not getting to use the chainsaw on the lancer in gears of war, or being able to use it but it only does the same as the hammerburst melee! It is currently a plasma rifle clone, with slightly more ammo and firing times (before reload/overheat) and more accuracy, but will be beaten as the rifle increases ROF with continued use and will kill just faster. With a slightly increased kill time (takes a little to deplete shields, but much quicker to deplete health) it will, like the plasma rifle be capable of matching the AR in extreme CQB, and with slightly (not extreme, otherwise campaign will become unbalanced) adjust shield and flesh damage stats, the weapon could finally become unique and have its own purpose, eg as a sidearm or cqb weapon with a sick melee damage boost. So while the kill time will only be marginally greater still making it and the plasma rifle inferior at most ranges, these two weapons are balance out against the assault rifle due to not having bloom, the plasma rifle dropping shields faster and leading to a melee kill quicker, the spiker having more ammo and time before reloading, and also a sick melee capability should the next TU include 50% melee damage. Firefight sniper rifles need 24/24 ammo to begin with. It cannot make use of the resupply crates and takes 3 headshots to kill an ultra on heroic, which is difficult enough because they are fast moving and jumpy, but they will also run away and recharge shields. Currently snipers start with 12/24 ammo. Allowing them to make use of the resuply ammo crates would be a bit OP, as with more than one sniper on the team with unlimited sniper ammo could reak havoc. Also, it would make the snipers from weapon drops useless if players spawning with snipers in custom firefight don't need to search for more ammo. Maybe a way for the author to limit how many people on one team can actively be using each loadout at one time (limit loadout 1 to 1 person at a time, limit loadout 2 to 4 people at a time etc) for both custom firefight and MP. Playlists: Invasion could do with TU settings, although it is a big new addition to reach and should also retain a default playlist as well. I think there should be 3 default playlists and the rest all with TU settings (aside from the one classic anniversary playlist.): Default: FFA - mix of FFA slayer and objectives Team - mix of slayer and objective, team size 4-5 (squad slayer yay) Big Team - mix of big team slayer, objective and invasion gametypes. (team size 6-8 ) Give TU users invasion as well and everyone is happy. This one may or may not be possible to add in so long after the release, but I think would please a lot of users: Add a new silver skull to firefight and campaign that turns on TU settings. You may chose to add this feature to both custom and matchmaking firefight or just custom firefight, but either way it is certainly a good idea that allows players to play the game their way and jump straight from campaign/firefight into MP with the same settings. Considering it is apparently easy for developers to turn TU on/off in matchmaking, so a simple 0/1 (off/on) value from a skull should be very easy to impliment and a feature that gamers shouldn't be denied. TL;DR Incase you didn't like my rambling here are the changes/things that should stay the same I think should be added/kept to/in the next TU: (Don't comment complaining about them if you haven't read the full post which goes in detail about my reasons for these changes.) Bloom: 85% Armor lock nerf: good, keep it. Bleedthrough: off, keep it off. Melee Damage: 50% (dont panic, read the post) Assault rifle tweaks: Slightly toned down spread/recoil/bloom. Plasma Repeater Tweaks: Slight damage done to shields buff, damage done to health stays the same. Spiker: Damage doen to health buffed until the weapon is capable of beating an AR in close quaters so long as each spike/round hits. Buffed melee damage (on par with RB/B attack of grav hammer). Slight nerf to shield damage, to balance it with plasma rifle and keep the two from being too similar to one another. Sniper spawns with 24/24 ammo in firefight (custom and matchmaking, both weapon drop and loadout/spawn) TU Invasion added to matchmaking Keep vanilla invasion, big team, normal team and ffa to keep vanilla fans happy and to not go back on promise. TU settings skull for campaign and custom firefight, maybe for matchmaking firefight (players vote for skull on/off). Ability to limit each loadout to a certain amount of people when editing game options in custom MP and firefight. (e.g. loadout 1 limited to 1 person, loadout 2 limited to 4 people etc etc). The Classic Anniversary is great with zero bloom, super pistol, no armor abilties, 110% shield regen, 120% player movement speed and 50% melee damage modifier. But I'm not here to talk about classic, I'm here to discuss the TU settings and how they can be modified for next months TU to make the game even better.