DeadlySniper19

I strongly disliked them in reach because most of them just didn't seem to feel right. Armor lock could be abused, camo really wasn't very good nor was hologram, the jetpack was fun but changed map control drastically/ made it easier to lose secured positions. That being said, I'm being open minded for what's to come in Halo 4, and from the gameplay I've seen the armor abilities seem to fit in really well and contribute to the gameplay, so no complaints here. I'm sure I will always prefer the classic Halo experience with no armor abilities because it's simple, works well, everything is equal and balanced, and it's what I've known for all Halo's prior to Reach. Everyone has individual preferences though, and despite me preferring classic Halo, I can acknowledge that it's important to change things up so it isn't the exact same game every time, so I would definitely choose to keep armor abilities.

thank god

Initially I thought the points scoring system was interesting, but having put some thought into it, I quickly discovered a way it could be problematic. You can earn more points for style/the way you kill people. So lets say in an infinity slayer game, your team is ahead 50 kills to 45. It is possible to lose despite being ahead 5 kills in the match because of this points scoring system, because if the enemy team got more stick kills or more doubles, they will have accumulated more points despite having a lower kill count. I think we will see this a lot in fairly close games, where a team that is ahead in kills will wind up losing. My question is, do you think a team that is ahead in kills in an infinity slayer gametype deserve to lose?

While it doesn't change the actual game, it has a big influence on gameplay/ the way people play, which makes it competitive. In reach I have nothing to lose if I go negative and don't win, because I'm rewarded with credits and rank advancement either way. However, with a ranking system (lets says it's number based) If I know my level 45 is at stake and can go down if i perform poorly and lose, that will cause me to try my best and play competitively, as opposed to goofing around in a system that doesn't care if you lose. Get what I'm saying? It influences gameplay because with a ranking system like we've seen in the past, you have something to lose if you do poorly. Without a ranking system, who gives a **** if you lose, you progress either way.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/7524/article/halo-4-forerunner-mystery-weapons/

http://halocouncil.com/content.php?r=449-The-Halo-Bulletin-6.13.12 Discuss. Competitive gamers will likely be pleased with the inclusion of a classic stripped down halo playlist

I think the casual fun style gametypes they displayed at e3 will appeal to a lot of people. The problem is that there are still a lot of people who want the classic halo experience. Creating a classic Halo playlist would have a lot of benefits such as support from MLG (343 would gain money and publicity), and an increased fanbase because the competitive gamers would be satisfied. I'm all for appealing to the largest portion of gamers by including these fun cod style playlists, but include a playlist for the competitive fanbase to keep that experience and community alive. I find it offensive that people would be against the inclusion of a simple playlist to keep competitive gamers wanting to play halo. I've been deprived of the competitive Halo experience since Reach came out (halo 1 & 2 xbl support gone, and the only people who stuck it out this long on h3 are boosters and derankers, so ranked playlists aren't viable). I feel like people think selfishly in their wants for a game; if their needs are met, they don't want the game any other way. When in reality there needs to be a compromise so the largest amount of gamers possible are happy (something to appeal to both casual and competitive players). Adding an additional stripped down high skill-cap playlist really isn't much to ask for at all, especially considering competitive gamers have already had to give up expecting to enjoy vanilla halo which used to be possible. On the bright side, the lead multiplayer designer for Halo 4, Kevin Franklin, recently tweeted that he saw the mlg pro's halo 4 discussion video and appreciates their feedback on Halo 4. So hopefully this means some changes will be made or playlists added so Halo 4 has something for every type of gamer. For those who are unaware. 343 invited the mlg pro's out to e3 for them to get the opportunity to try out Halo 4 and get feedback from them. This is a discussion about Halo 4 by pro's neighbor, bravo, and elamite - this video having been acknowledged by Kevin Franklin, multiplayer designer for Halo 4 [media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otdeZhfiNOs&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLwec-iU-Ngh1Cd8y84U33sw[/media]

It's easy to put up a high kd if you camp with, for example, invis and shotty. But I don't think a person like that deserves to rank up for putting up those stats in a manner that doesn't deserve rewarding. Someone who's just crouching around the map isn't being helpful to the team (instead of team shotting with the br, he would be crouching around the map looking for an easy opportunity to pick one person off). Needless to say this drastically slows down gameplay and decreases the rewards of being a team player. I know that if I was being rewarded individually and not as a team - screw winning and helping my team, I'm gonna do what it takes to put up good stats so I can rank up (and I know a lot if not the majority would do the same). If it's a team game why should rewards only be individual? I can understand why good players would want such a system, believe me, as a competitive player, when i initially heard of such a system I was all for it - but you have to realize and understand the implications of it. Most developers are against this type of system for the reasons detailed in my previous post about system abuse, negatively impacted playstyle and gameplay, etc.

I wouldn't worry about Halo 4 being a bust. In fact, I think it could be the most successful Halo yet. This is because they're adding elements into the game that appeal to other gaming communities such as cod. It's good to grow the Halo franchise and take people away from cod and similar games. But at the same time, 343 needs to ensure there's still competitive playlists which offer the pure Halo feel which competitive gamers want. It can't be 100% casual, there needs to be a balance.

Example: You're playing on standoff and there's a guy willing to sacrafise his k/d and put out poor stats to help the team overall, by being the warthog driver every time. Sure he goes negative.... but he also enabled his team to win. I can list more examples but overall saying that people that go negative didn't help their team just really isn't true. As for how the system could and would be abused. Since it's based on kd, people would play much more passively, not wanting to ever die knowing it would effect their rating. So you have these camping scrubs putting up high k/d's and beating the system to achieve a good rating, whereas what would be more representative of skill is if they played as a team and won games because of it. We've already seen this happen in Arena and by causing people to obsess over their stats means that the gameplay is much more slow because as I said, no one wants to die and lower their rating. I've seen this request in many other games such as league of legends for example, and the developers always come to the conclusion that abuse and system manipulation will become an issue and it will negatively impact gameplay and the flow of the game.

They can't base it on k/d because it will cause more abuse and exploitation than the typical 1-50 system ever would. There are a lot of factors that go into a game which effect the outcome. A quick example, I could be having a rough game but I got control of rockets hall for my team, picked them up, and that play got us slightly ahead and won us the game. I think that person derserves the win and rank up..... sure they had a rough start but they wound up winning their team the game. A ranking system based on win/loss encompases all the factors that go into the end outcome of the game which is why, while simple, it's probably one of the most accurate systems they could impliment.

Wouldn't giving the people who are doing poorly overshields/power weapons be unfair, as it gives them a good chance at winning against a team that is better than them? The better team should win, and not have to risk losing to people they're better than because the team doing poorly is being given all these advantages. I do think it's unfair as well though that players who are already dominating the other team get further rewarded by getting powerups/ power weapons delivered to them in killstreaks. That's why I liked the original system of spawning powerups and power weapons in set locations. The better team who strategically secured map control would gain access to the power weapons, in my opinion a much more fair method of distributing such items.

? Elamite: "They threw so many attributes of call of duty in it that it's really losing a lot of the Halo feel". "Overall fun, but competitive aspect-wise which is my forte as well as neighbors, it's gonna be tough to see..." "One of the things I've been noticing, especially with map packs, is that none of the maps are designed for competitive play"........ "completely diminishes the competitive aspect of the game" Neighbor: "Adrift reminded me a little of rats nest from Halo 3, I definitely do not see it being a competitive map at all". "i had the same problem as kyle, where it's so much like call of duty, where there's these killstreaks that give you a sniper rifle and overshield, it takes out the whole trying to gain control over a certain part of the map." I think the issue was that I focused on the negatives and overlooked the positives, and you focused on the positives and overlooked the negatives lol.

Eh I'm fine with the chaotic/somewhat ridiculous gameplay offered by the gametypes we saw, should be pretty fun. But they must have a hardcore playlist which strips it down a bit so it actually feels like a halo game and there aren't killstreaks/perks. I want to actually be able to enjoy this game from a competitive standpoint, and with the current playlists they displayed at e3 that simply isn't possible. I'm definitely a fan of a matchmaking system which both rewards you for time played but also gives you an actual skilled rating based on win/loss. If they listen to the mlg pro's reactions to the game then I have a feeling they will create playlists which more accurately represent the feel of Halo for those competitive gamers who want it. To be honest, being able to enjoy vanilla halo has pretty much been gone since reach came out so it's an unrealistic expectation of competitive gamers at this point. We just have to hope they add in elements that will appeal to everyone, which I'm confident 343 is at least trying to do as it will help guarantee the success of Halo 4. In case you haven't heard what the pro's have to say about Halo 4 - www.youtube.com/watch?v=otdeZhfiNOs&feature=g-all-u there's a topic about it lingering around somewhere

Summary: It's a really fun game but it doesn't feel like Halo, and lacks a competitive feel due to map design and ordinance drops. Has too much in common with cod.

Truekill says the ranking system in Halo 4 is confirmed to be a combination of H3 and Reach. Can someone link me to where this was stated by a 343 employee so this statement has credibility? I will be happy if this is actually true but for the majority of things stated in this thread they were left unsupported (however this doesn't mean they aren't true).

I honestly think Halo 2 and 3 more heavily influenced Halo 4 than Reach. 343 went with the faster movement speed, higher jump height, inclusion of the BR, all of which combined drastically increase the pace and playstyle of the game which relates more to Halo 2/3 rather than the slow and clunky uncompetitive feel of Reach. Note that I'm not saying reach is bad, it really appealed to casual gamers and a lot of people had fun with it, but I think Halo 4 isn't building gameplay based on Reach at all. Also, you said this game wasn't built for competitive gaming? In the first Halo 4 trailer they said all of the maps are built from scratch with competitive in mind. Heck, a much better example being the fact that 343 specifically invited competitive MLG pro's to E3 to get to play it and test it out. Why would they invite such competitive pro gamers to playtest it if it was a casual shooter and they knew the pro's wouldn't like it?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469395 "Elites Not Returning to Multiplayer -Not much detail was given as to why elites will not see multiplayer combat, it was stated in a picture caption. The caption reads, "Competitive multiplayer focues on the Spartan IVs. Elites will not be playable" Also I did find elites harder to kill in team swat specifically, especially when attempting to shoot the back of their head. But I'll admit I am disappointed that they won't be playable in multiplayer, it added some variation to gameplay and made things interesting. Plus I know a lot of clans will be disappointed about the exclusion of elites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X53pdj-_lw&feature=youtu.be Well this alleviates my suspicion about walshy and bravo being bribed by 343 to do nothing but talk up Halo 4.

Unfortunately they're adding perks to appeal to a larger fanbase (aka cod community) which will help guarantee the success of Halo 4 from a sales standpoint. I'm just gonna hope Frank will stick to his word and have a Classic Halo playlist, stripped of some of the bloat that a lot of competitive core halo gamers don't want. Also I'm still waiting on more information about the ranking system, there needs to be a skilled rating for me to have the desire to want to win games.

Loadouts: over 1300 combinations, they plan on adding more tactical options, support options, etc Tacticle options: Shielding - your shields recharge faster. Shields to begin with in Halo 4 recharge faster than in previous halos. Shields regen in a left to right bar. Firepower - allows you to have two primary weapons, such as a br and dmr. Otherwise you would have to use a pistol or plasma pistol as a secondary. Resupply - allows you to pick up grenades off your teammates and enemies bodies, which is otherwise not possible, a huge change in halo. Armor Ability Efficiency - makes armor abilities recharge quicker. not very useful as armor abilities typically aren't spammed, and they're on a low cooldown anyways (sprint regens in 7 seconds). Support options: Ammo - you start off with more ammo when you spawn, and weapons you pick up and ordinance drops also come with more ammo. Sensor - increases the distance and sensitivity of your radar. Awareness - allows you to have radar while zoomed in with weapons, particularly useful when using snipers which require being zoomed in for longer periods of time. All weapons have a zoomed-in skin in addition to the exterior options. Mobility - allows you to have infinite sprint. Notably there was no recharge bar on sprint to begin with, however to have it's full effect took a wait of 7 seconds, and the duration it lasted was also 7 seconds. Good for larger maps but not very useful in mlg gametypes. Armor Abilities: Promethean Vision - allows you to see through walls at a surpringsingly long range. A very powerful armor ability, however the enemy will know when you are scanning with promethean vision. Hologram - same as in halo reach, sends a hologram of your spartan to run out in a direction to serve as a distraction. Not very effective, people are rarely fooled by it. Thruster Pack - you only get one burst in a single direction and it gives you a speed boost, moving you a few body lengths away. You don't have the ability to shoot during this, your screen gets blurred for the duration. Useful for dodging things like rockets which would otherwise kill you. Deceptive because it doesn't feel like you travel far with it, but when other people use it you can see they go a decent distance in a short period of time. Hardlight Shield - spawns a large shield in front of you which blocks all incoming damage for 8 seconds and places you in a 3rd person view. The shield color changes based on how close to the end of the duration of the shield you are (turns red indicating you only have a few seconds left). It causes you to move slow, and this shield can not be taken down by incoming damage to it. Weapons: Scattershot - comes with 5 shots per clip, is highly effective at close range similar to a shotgun, and you can bounce the bullets off objects or walls to potentially get kills you wouldn't otherwise get. 6 buckshots come out of it per bullet. Spartan Laser - same in effectiveness to previous halos, however is now on a longer charge, duration being 3 seconds. Great for killing vehicles but is no longer useful in 1v1 situations, such as against someone that is shooting at you with a battle rifle (you will die before the laser goes off). DMR - has a spread the further the range however it isn't that bad; it is still possible to sink headshots with it at a long range even if you spam your shots, which wasn't possible in halo reach. Carbine - very strong, serves the same purpose as the DMR.

I remember Frank saying in an interview that there will be a classic halo mode. I'm not exactly sure how stripped it will be, that's completely up to them, but they're at least trying to please competitive core halo players.

Ha, I was going to make a topic about this. Here's a follow up video from walshy bravo and best man talking about halo 4 weapons

Should be more gameplay footage on the way. Here's the E3 schedule http://www.trueachievements.com/forum/viewthread.aspx?threadid=2419706&anchor=2419734 Halo 4 to have a 20 minute long segment starting at 4:40pm PDT 6/5/2012.