Dawn Wolf

Change of pace is nice here. As soon as Reach debuted the DMR, I longed for the day when we would have DMR vs BR. Now that that day is here... It's great! Of course people are going to bicker about which one is better, or how much one needs to be nerfed, making them perfectly equal would be neigh impossible. After-all, right now they are basically equal in terms of shots, but look at all the concerned Halo fans arguing every second. I have my complains with H4, but all in all, it's a good time for Halo.

I can't dispute that, preference is preference, but I implore you to go into forge and test the kill times for yourself. I was horribly surprised. IIRC, all the weapons killed at about 1.5 seconds melee range. Outside of that, the AR never really dipped below the other weapons. And at ranges where the AR could still kill in a single clip, FULL AUTO, the Storm Rifle would fail to kill the target before it overheated. On topic, I agree with a lot of what Bloody said. The line of thought that Halo has never had something thus it is OP is sort of a falicy. I'm not saying the Boltshot is all free and good, but that H4 is far from broken, and there's a lot of things in it you could make the same argument for. Never before in Halo could someone put down an auto turret, regen field all the time, see through walls. Those things have all never been done. Doesn't mean they're OP. Imagine the boltshot if it just made you one shot. Couldn't OSK. People would be saying how terribly useless it is, most likely. Wheras, but any of these guns into Reach. Put the H4 AR, BR, DMR, Boltshot, Shotgun, hell, but the MAGNUM in Reach, and it would dominate everything in the game. H4 kill times are under two seconds, easily. Those two seconds are enough to destroy people with the boltshot unless they play smart (ie: Camp smart, nothing wrong with this). Boltshot would be worthless if it couldn't OSK, though I understand there are other, possibly valid ways to nerf it.

Dear god. Yes it does. Respect other games. If you think CoD's so easy, why don't you try to go pro on it? I bet tons of CoD experts would ruin your day 1v1. You could set plenty of SWAT experts with great reaction times, give them turtles, and set them up and CoD, and they would have to learn the game just like anyone else. CoD has it's own set of learning curves. (Not saying they are as steep as Halo's, but that's not the point) Wait, fast paced Halo = CoD? What about games like Unreal Tournament? As much as I hate them, Halo is far closer to those than CoD. That's simple game design logic. Go ahead, put on 300% speed and jump height. Feel like CoD? Or Quake? And I thought competitive Halo players have been whining for years to make the game faster... Have you even PLAYED CoD? Halo plays nothing like CoD. It never will. H4 is proof of this. With all the CoD inspired elements in the game, it's still Halo, and does not play like CoD. Surprise. I'm surprised you don't feel like Halo has been like Halo. It's not hard. ... So there's this playlist called SWAT. Have you tried it? It really, really plays like CoD. Yep. Aim down sights, kill times, body shots, full auto, the whole shebang. Yep. Shields is definitely the thin line that separates Halo from CoD. God, I just love posts with zero logic.

See, I gotta disagree. The BR is pretty accurate. To the point where a 4 shot BR should beat a 5 shot DMR more times than not across Haven. Complex? Sure. Maybe. But the DMR shouldn't be condemned to be weaker at all ranges except very far. Honestly, try putting a custom powerful for +10 percent power or whatever. I bet the BR user will tear up the DMR user. It's gross, but I'd almost say make it four shot, and give it MORE spread. Naw, that's too gross. I wouldn't say that.

I'm surprised NO one recommended the obvious nerf that I'm surprised 343 didn't give it initially off the bat. (I'm not SAYING it should be nered. I'm just suggesting something) It could do more damage the more time it's charged, and expend more ammo. So like, first few miliseconds, two shots are expended, and it does like 1/3 shield damage. A second later, it's expending half a clip, and dealing maybe a bit less than it is now. If it auto fires, it expends the whole clip, and is as strong if not more so than it is now. (This would nerf it tremendously, possibly too much) There's a few reasons why I like the boltshot as it is. This is not H3 or Reach. H4 is a different game. In H4, people die very quickly, and the loadout rifles are extremely efficient. I don't know if you guys have noticed, but I feel that power weapons are far less dominating in H4, and I'm okay with this. It seems like it's far harder to get a "free spree" with weapons like the sword and shotgun, and even rockets, because you die SO quickly. The boltshot gives all players the option to contend with melee power weapons. I don't completely dislike this. Most of the power weapons in H4 take a bit of intelligence to use correctly, you don't just pick them up and do work. (CEPT RAILGUN BABY). I don't think it's an issue that sword users have to be mroe unpredictable in their approach, rather than assume every player is ripe for the picking. After all, they do have sprint, and possibly other abilities. Even WITH boltshots, a sword user is pretty lethal. The boltshot is also, let's be frank, very fun to use. It's extremely satisfying to pull of clutch moves with it (Yes, you can be clutch with an OP weapon), and really brings something new to the table. It also keeps rifle users weary to stay at their intended ranges, and no just charge right into people. Though yes, I feel this further weakens the autos, but that's a different conversation. The only two weapons I feel without a doubt need balance changes is the Storm Rifle and Suppressor. Honest to god, their kill times are actually equal or SLOWER at ALL ranges than the AR. Try it...

The question becomes, how to you make a rifle like the BR good at short range but bad at long range? I'm not sure there's a way.

The DMR's place in the game is to be the consistent status quo. Because by its very nature, it is picture perfect acurate. That trait alone has always made Halo weapons powerful. Like the CE pistol. It makes it good at all ranges. If you use the other weapons, you sacrifice a balanced weapon, but gain a set of specific advantages. I don't know why you would complain about the LR being too weak, it kills in 4-5 shots. Instead of 5-7. And your carbine kills faster than the DMR.

The problem is this. In Halo, by the very nature of the way the game works, no weapon can truly be "Good at Long Range", and "Bad at Short Range". The sniper is the obvious extreme here, but even that weapon, in the right hands, becomes godly at close range at times. It's the same concept for the DMR. If the weapon is good at long range, it will be good at all ranges, equally, provided the player is skilled enough. There's really no way around this. If the DMR can 5 shot at long range, it can 5 shot at close range. Because of this, the balance for the BR/DMR has to be more abstract than simply CLOSE vs FAR. As it stands, what the DMR is is a perfectly balanced weapon in and of itself. It's the status quo. It can kill consistently if the player is good enough, at any range. This will not be easy to change, and probably shouldn't change either. The DMR represents what the R weapons have ALWAYS BEEN in Halo. The status quo. That said, where does the BR come in? It's slightly (SLIGHTLY) less consistent at range, but offers a few formidable advantages above the DMR. You can afford to miss 2 bullets in your 5 shot. You can get a let up on targets who are off balance shield wise. You can drop players who are weakened more efficiently. You make players flinch a teeny bit more. It's harder to choke completely. Rarely will a BR player (skilled) have to fire more than 7 bursts, but it's common for a DMR player (skilled) to miss three or more shots in a complex engagement. This weapon clearly has its place in the game just as the DMR does. Where does the Carbine come in? Same as always, the skill potential weapon. It's hard to use, and requires a bit of bravery. That said, it CAN KILL FASTER THAN THE DMR. When it comes down to it, this is an interesting advantage. Spitting out more rounds, it also is a again, a bit harder to completely shoke with than the DMR. Fired consistently, it's kill-times aren't bad, while it is sometimes hampered by range. This weapon clearly has it's place in the game just as the DMR does. How about the Light Rifle? Obviously, it's the most effective weapon at range. It kills in just TWO body shots or ONE headshot after the THREE shots to take down shields. That's FOUR TO FIVE shots for a kill, no matter what. Close up, the LR can still kill in 5 BURSTS just like the other weapons, although of course they must be very accurate bursts, which is very viable. This weapon clearly has its place in the game, just as the DMR does. How about the Assault Rifle? Well, it kills pretty fast up close. Sure, the problem of getting close in the first place exists, as well as the abundance of Boltshots, but paired with things like Firepower, Camo/Holo, and a smart playstyle, it has its place too. (I can't argue for the Storm Rifle or Suppressor, those are the only weapons I feel are truly underpowered). Besides, the AR has never been... Dominant in Halo anyway. The rifles are fine. Don't confuse overused with overpowered. If at the top level of play, most pros prefer the consistency of the DMR versus the advantages of the other weapons, that's fine. That doesn't effect EVERYONE, and I'm willing to bet at least some pros prefer some of the other weapons.

Does anyone ever have MODERATE opinions anymore? The game is good. The game could use some balance changes. There's nothing wrong with trying to make the game competitive and balanced. There's nothing wrong with playlists being catered to serious gamers. There's nothing wrong with playlists being catered to casual gamers. Most gamers are actually somewhere in-between. The game does not play like CoD in anyway. To address the topic: MLG has never gotten in the way of the regular playlists in Halo, let them be. Were you forced to play MLG in H3 or R? No. As it stands, they don't even HAVE their own playlist now. I don't like some of the things they do to their game, but all in all they bring a lot of insight to the table. And since when did trying to achieve balance in a game become bad...

Oh lord. DURR I USE THE WEAPON GOOD SO I GOOD NOW HAA. Are you going to start challenging DMR players to 1v1s now?

After playing for the last few weeks, and coming back to this thread, I now feel that the Boltshot is... Extremely good. OP is suggestive, but it is a really, really useful weapon. And you know you might have a problem when I question picking up a needler or even SCATTERSHOT in place of my boltshot. The boltshot is more consistent at one shotting than the scattershot too. The scattershot is the most random gun in the game.

I'm all for competitive play, but... I've never liked MLG's stance on radar. I don't really care if they think it takes more skill. The only real competitive benefit I see from radar is encouraging communication. Other than that, all it does is increase randomness. When two players see each other on radar, the only factor is their skill. When they duel, it's not because one got the drop on the other for some random reason. Without radar, it's more about who gets the first shot because someone was behind someone. That's not even core Halo. That's why Halo HAS the motion sensor in the first place. To make it MORE about skill.

I agree that a 4 shot BR would be terrible for the game. The gun would vastly outpower everything else. And it's not that much more inaccurate at range either, so it would dominate even at long range.

Drop off is a bad idea. It's too arbitrary. It would artificially force the balance, which is not good. Sigh. I refuted it! I just did. There are several ways the BR is better than the DMR! It is NOT a one sided issue! The BR is perfectly viable! And honestly, losing 5-10%more of your ammo supply for a perfect kill should NOT be a major or even minor point here. If you're going to LIVE that long with the BR, obviously you're doing fine with it.

Well, I have to agree with the other guy and ask: What does ordinance have to do with loadout balance? But, I would agree with you and say that the Beam Rifle has more aim assist. It was an interesting decision on their part.

They shouldn't have taken it away. Merely on principle. But YOU guys should stop acting like it's the end of the world. Honest to god, I don't care HOW much you prefer your Pro/MLG/GB settings, if you call yourself a Halo fan, and you can't enjoy some Team Slayer? I mean... I just don't know what to say to that. Loadouts or no. And off topic, what the poop is up with game battles slayer? Some dude invited me to a 1v1 and put that crap on. Why do they use the Scattershot? It's the most random weapon in the game. (And I will never agree with the competitive community about radar)

I'll just say this. Number one "problem" that has been blown WAY out of proportion with H4 is the progression system. You can have ANYTHING except spec perks by level 30something. You GET everything except spec perks by level 50. You can get any spec perk by level 60. I was level 50 in a week, while going to college, doing other stuff. I was level 60 in another week. It's not that big of a deal.

So... what exactly are we being graded on here? For the wargames one. And damn, yet another thing linked to my stupid email address than got messed up and wont let me log in anymore. xP Hope I dont have to get into it.

Right, those things are impossible because EVERYONE has Armor Lock, and everyone uses it perfectly. Naw, it's not reserved for the noobish. Sure there were people that would throw it down and leave it there when they were weak, but there were very many powerful and smart ways to use AL. And they worked. Now, if you're trying to say it was too good, so you use it and you're a noob, that's kind of stupid. Using the "best" (subjective, most players used sprint) ability does not make you a noob. Also, for like probably the 100th time, I'll remind you how easy it is to COUNTER AL compared to other abilities. You walk backwards. And call your friends. And throw some frags. None of the other abilities had such a counter, and they were far less predictable. I used AL, and I never found myself complaining about other AL users.

Something I realized. A full auto BR would be amazing! xD

See, but this is my point. You just kind of solidified what I'm trying to say. The BR has a definite advantage when players are weak, or are off balance. In other-words, it takes an ENTIRE DMR shot to take shields from 1% strength to 0%. That wastes a shot where a BR would not. In H4, it's common for outside damages, or the player's own grenades, to bring him off balance. (Not 25, 50, 75, or 100% shields). In that scenario, the BR is given a clear cut advantage. But you and others make it sound like the BR has to pay dearly for that advantage by being terrible. But it's not. As you JUST stated, I quote you, the BR spread is actually extremely tight. This is true. It is very tight. It's really not as much about luck or randomizes as people make it out to be. You can often confidently sink all bullets into the target. Sure, at long range it starts to get less accurate, but it's still viable. And I feel at all ranges the earlier mentioned advantage can be pretty powerful. Often when I use the BR, people just drop dead long before I would expect them to, and if I had a DMR. Also, it's not a small area to dodge because of drag. That makes it really efficient and hard to escape. It turns a small area into a death line. And it's not that HUGE of a problem for a weapon to have a SMALL advantage over another anyway. Generally speaking, weapons do. It's nigh impossible to PERFECTLY balance everything. As it stands, we're pretty close. Making the BR stronger would send it way further out of whack. It would dominate hard at long range too.

The BR HAS advantages! It it much easier and more efficient at picking up kills. This makes it deadly when paired with frags, in general more than the DMR. A single burst can do the work of 2 DMR shots if shields are even a little off the norm. It's harder to dodge an entire BR shot. People always talk about how with the BR, its easier to miss one of the bullets, but the don't talk about the other side to that coin. When you DO choke with the BR, and people always do, its generally much less than with a DMR. It's common for a DMR user to miss a few times and have to shoot up to 7 or 8 times. Rare for a BR user to go above 6 shots. It also makes you flinch a bit more, or at least is more intimidating when aiming to get hit by. Three bullets instead of one. Yeah, I agree. When all is said and done, I'd vote DMR. But not by much. Not by enough that it warrants a buff or nerf. Players 5 shot with the BR all the time, and reap the benefits of the burst too. It's FINE.

Oh my god people. The BR is NOT THAT BAD. It's BARELY weaker.

The BR would be horrendously OP if it was 4 shot. People are making it sound like the situation is like this. --BR----------DMR-- In actuallity, it is like this. ------------BR-DMR-- If the BR was 4 Shot, it would look like this -----------------DMR----------BR-- I've been using the BR a bit lately. It is FINE. More importantly, it would become incredibly OP.

This has been a tactic in every Halo. There's nothing wrong with it.