Twinreaper

Ok guys, before I can go about getting to the bottom of this, I need to know what models xbox you guys are running, and if possible, what version of the dashbaord. I knwo it seems like a strange question, but it is info I need to know before I can go about helping.

They are quite aware of the lag issue as well as the community. See. this is what happens when the community gets what it wants. I'm pretty sure everyone has known for the past 10 years just how horrible the original netcode was, and the fact that the original game had no present working networking model to base off of. Changing this single feature required an additional 2 years of re-engineering the engine code to handle the current day networking models we take for granted. They simply had to sacrifice it, in order to keep the game as it was 10 years ago, and instead just updated Reach's variant engine of Blam! to handle the networking between the old version and new version to allow co-op over Live. Now I know what you are thinking initially.....why not just use that method to perfect the Live Co-Op experience, or give us true H1 multiplayer. They couldn't. Simply put, updating Reach's engine to kinda translate loosely everything was simply like putting a band-aid on a severed body part. Couple this with only emulated hardware enviroments, and you have a lot of bugs that just can't be, or take too darn to be fixed. They did the best they could with the time and resources they had.

I can help shed a little light on this subject. The collision models for standard and remastered mode are the same. The only thing they changed is the bsp geometry mesh and it's shaders. Now according to how the 2 engines run in parallel, there is no coding difference between the 2 modes besides the shaders, particle effects and material effects. Weather falls into the particle effects catagory. Now I may be slightly off here, but speaking from a modders perspective, it is possible that by using the new shaders with material responses, that some parts of the maps with new shaders that have newer material effects, changes slightly the amount of force or ability to trick jump. Although it is doubtfull that is what happening, it would be one possible explanation. the only reason i say possible, is because even though CEA is running both reach's waterdowned variant of Blam! and CE's original Blam!......the basic physics and collision handling is still being driven by the original on both states of the game. The only other conclusion I can come to as to why the tricks don't work...is because your eyes are fooling you. Whn you play thru on remastered mode, you tend to think a little different when presented with the visual geometry, and you kinda don't pick up or consciously remember that the collision is the exact same as the original bsp's were. This could lead to many miscalculations in placement and execution of trick jumping tactics. Although not perfect...it is at least a few ways this stuff could be failing.

You feel 30 years younger Spectral? Lmao. But seriously yeah guys....we need to hammer 343 into giving us a download version of the gametype variant with e pistol tweaks. I shall begin this immediately.

Omg man, this is unexpected. I don't even know what to say...which is very unlike me...given my legthy posts! I want to start off by saying THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!! But more to the point, I would not be a MOM without such a great community who has truley made me feel at home here, and gives me strength and support to do the things I love to. Thank you again guys!!! I will not let anyone down with this honor!

My bad bro. I thought you were asking for worlds to explode there for sec.... But to answer that simply, yes they could very well release the variant gametype, but even as I type this, I am unsure if the gametypes for 'classic" CEA, are built in gametypes. They may be just gametypes on a server end, and when you guys all go into it, it loads the gametype to memory allocation for the host it selects. I guess we could ask them and find out? Who knows, perhaps they will give it to us for christmas....? And yes, I hear with the wiggle room. it does bother me that they choose to round things they way they did. We really would be betteroff, and be able to make picture perfect forgings with being able to adjust to the smallest decimal. But just fair warning, just because an asset is present in the game, does not make it easy to use in a mass multiplayer environment, nor does it make it easy to re-script it to do a completely different thing. What everyone sees a simple TU update, I see as 3 months of planning, and an additional 2 months of re-coding, thern another 2 months of bug work and fixes.

Yes cahce is a big issue. Unfortunatly, the 360 is not as good at handling memory as it should be. By default, the cachc folder holds quite a bit of previous loaded game data. That data has to be overwritten, causing read delays, and causing lag when the network is trying to communicate with your console. Simply put, I cannot understand why they insist on having a cache folder that will literally store the data from the like the last 5 maps you played on? Loading times are not that big anymore, and the cache folder only really made sense on the Xbox 1, seeing as it had a low ram size. somewhere around 16mb's if I rememebr correctly. But yeah, clear your cache before powering off your console everyday...it will help. Not a whole lot, but it will help a noticable amount. And it'sd not my fault the ethernet cord took it upon itself to dislodge itslef from my 360 causing lag and a disconnect from Live....lmao Anywho, now on to my daily confession... Forgive me Father for I have sinned, a sin that leaves me in a haze. Was I wrong or was I right, will my actions set 343i ablaze? I have last night to much success, ripped the contents of the CEA disc. I do this not for gain but for learning, to quell this hobby enthusiasts' yearning. I care not to distribute or release, the game to the communal beast. I simply what to learn and poke around, to get some insightif insight is to be found. It will help me understand things to pass, Such as the halo 4 circumstance. Where is it going, how is changing, oh the pain of not knowing. Hope you enjoyed that rhyme to my sin. I basically ripped the disc so I can start loading up code to handle and display some basic form of the map structure in CEA, so i can start poking around at how they did things. While not a big deal to me...it may be to some, and theirfore I feel shame.

Congrats to you two for winning. Top notch Halo experts as i expected. Enjoy the titles guys!! You guys are one of the many reasons 343i.org is the great place it is! Cheers!

There is a very good reason why they did not leave bloom adjustments up to custom matches and individuals. Giving the community a control set as advnaced as "bloom", has a wide variety or mechnaics behind it, it isn't just simply adjusting 1 number, and it works. There were a total of 7..maybe more...actual value tweaks that went into it to achieve what they gave us in the playlist. Aloowing us to make those same changes would have required 343 to give the community direct access to a GUI capable of displaying raw tag data. The gametypes themselves are loaded into memory on all consoles when playing a match. Simply being host and making changes like that ina custom game, would rather erwquire you to publish a forge variant and dustribute it to your friends. memory edited game data does not get synced accross clients at all. It is simply a buffer to allow quicker loading and unloading of assets. That is why have dedicated playlists to have this feature. As for physics, that is a completely different ball park. You cannot simply just go into the base engine and nullify physics without breaking the havok portion of the engine code. To adjust the physics and collision detections down to the CE level would have required 343 to take away, or roll back physic and collision assets, which as i said, would have broken the code. This also would have not allowed the variant of Blam! with CEA to communicate properly with all Reach community players. I hope this wasn't too technical or hard to understand.

You quite obviously do not know what bloom is. Bloom in the case tyou are referring to....is simply the reticule expanding and contracting to show you where the shots of a percision weapon land. The true definition of bloom is, the area or distance in which the firing spread of your weapon increases with shots fired in conssession rather than pacing. There is a little vlaue in the weap tag that controls how much time must pass before the firing spread area comes to rest at 0. As you spam the trigger, the area in which shots land increases. This is not controlled or dictated in any way by the little HUD reticule you and many other believe to be controlling the "bloom" you hate so much. Firing spread has been on every weapon in halo. To be more specific about the TU, they used a Megaloscript script to alter 7 weapon value floats in memory to nullify the HUD reticule, and increase increase rate of fire, damage tables, firing spread, error cone, error angles etc.... and the AA attributes. I ike how you fail to post who you are taking those quotes from, and the site. Care to link them for everyone? 18:04 into this video from PAX with the main leads of CEA... they clearly explain that it is the Reach magazine and weapon with tweaks made to it. Here's a link so you can watch it... http://halo.xbox.com...0a-a1f59b5e42f0 In fact if you ever watched any of the videos or read any of the official published work in regards to CEA, you wouldn't be raging about wasting $40 to begin with...which is my main point. Also note that at 34:53 in the same link, you can hear the team answer a bloom question, and they tell you by explanation of what bloom adjusting is, how it works. If your going to properly try to argue me on the technical game egnine standpoints of Blam!, it's best to know your stuff and have links to official actual words out of the developers mouth, before you take me on. Point proven I believe? Oh btw, as a final sedn off...what exactly in your post about "read the lies" was not accurate? everything in that post was actually what happened or hit close to what was actually going on. I cannot see how that "lie" in anyway misled you at all. Care to explain it? Or are you content with being a 5 post troll, got spanked and will now move along?

True. Bungie personally stated that in Reach, they threw in.everything they ever wanted to have in a halo game...and the community as well. But as I could have predicted, the community outraged despite being given what they wanted. Lesson learned. When it comes to Halo, go with your developers gut...not the community.

Bloom has always been in halo. Perhaps what you are referring to is not bloom but something else. Describe what you mean and I can better reply and help you understand.

To R3jektus and KPM, the game was meant as a re-skin, as in updated shaders and particle effects. As I said before, you knew well ahead of time what the game was all about. And stop with all this talk about Reach. The new maps that came with it were always slated to be brought to the Reach multiplayer table. The Original CE campiagn in no way shape or form screams Reach. The exact same CE engine is running the campaign, even on the updated graphics mode. As I said before, you should have done your research on the product ahead of time. Sounds like you went out and bought it just because it was labeled as "Halo"...since you read or understood nothing about what was going into the game. As for your comment about the classic magnum, perhaps you should go back though about oh lets say... the gazillion of 343 interviews and offical posts that described to you exactly, that the classic magnum was going to be a tweaked Reach magnum, so that it delivered the same damage multipliers and firing speed as the halo 1 pistol. What part of the information they supplied did you not understand? A sad re-skin? really? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to compile a simple shader with proper textures and UVW mapping to make a simple flat stone tablet look good? Can you provide a better 3d model bsp mesh? Who are you to say it's poorly done r3jektus? Are you an industry proffessional with years of on hands game asset creation behind you? Have you ever tried to develop a map for either of the 2 Halo titles they currently have editing kits for? I have been there and done that, and still to this day create content for the Halo 2 pc platform. Doing so, and going thru the many fustrations it presents, made me appriciate more what these talented folks at 343i have put together. You know, it's pretty sad when when a once great community turn into nothing more than a constant ***** fest. CoD fans don't ***** even a 1/4 as much as I have seen here. And trust me, that replayed Quake engine crap multiplayer game is enough to make even a baby puke...yet here we are.....bitching at every turn a new halo title makes. The bottom line is, it's easy to come in and straight out hate everything about a game, a true gamer and fan will find aspects of any game to enjoy regardless of it's flaws. I don't think any halo title was perfect at all...I can still find many flaws in the coding, execution of the engine and textures. But I choose not to focus on that, and instead dedicate that hate into trying to enjoy the game more and finding new ways to have fun with it. But if all you ever want in life, is a simple Halo 1 and halo 2 clone...then go back to your xboxes and leave the reast of the perfectly happy and evolving community alone. I think I have said all that is needed to be said, and with that, I end the novels on this topic and humbly pass the torch....

From what I can tell it's just a fun little easter egg extra similar to the bloody teady you find in the CoD maps.

Good question Firen. It is strange they decided to stick with a strict 2 player co-op rather than the standard four. I may have to poke around to find the reaosn why this is...

Ok, stay on topic guys. Save the Reach bashing for the "Reach threads of the Reach section. Keep it strictly CEA talk pelase. Thanks. To add to this discussion, what about the game dissapointed you? For one thing, don't start flaming around about how the game uses reach multiplayer, or that the campaign is not what was expected. I have stated this before and will state it again for those who have a hard time reading and comprehending... YOU HAD A LITTLE OVER 9 MONTHS TO RESEARCH AND WATCH HOURS OF GAMEPLAY, INTERVIEWS AND RELEVANT POSTED 343 INDUSTRIES DATA ABOUT WHAT THIS GAME WOULD BE!!! If you were let down or felt cheated, then clearly you did not research your purchase investment very well. It was clear from the beginning that this remake was to update the look of Halo 1 and to bring new classic Halo 1 maps into the curretn multiplayer experience. At no point in CEA's creation did 343, Microsoft, Saber Interactive or any other entity besides yourselves, mislead you in what you would be getting for this $40 purchase. As for those people who keep posting about epic LAN matches...if it was that epic, as you clearly say it was, then why not pull out your xbox\s and have on? Oh wait, don't tell me...people have better things to do...or they dont live close anymore...or some other reason why you can't right? Tell you what everyone, find me some links to a place where someone who doesn't own Halo 1 or an xbox anymore, can locate a fully functioning unit and a copy of Halo compelte with two controllers and all the cords plus headset.....for less that $40? Seriously try to find it. $40.00 is steal for what we recieved in DLC map pack content for Reach alone.

I'll take a shot at this. The game is great. All parties involved in the development of the updated title did a phenominal job. Instead of placing a long list of winded pros and cons, I'll keep my aspects brief and listed......first time for everything!!! Pros: 1. Execution of original game engine running along side newer stripped down variant version of Reach's engine is absolutely perfect. Ho hick-ups at all. 2. Bonus map pack is well worth over $40, after going through each one and seeing the amount of time and detail thery put into it. 3. The remastered textures and shader templates are amazing. In HD, you can't even begin to understand that this IS the original Halo.... 4. Sounds are sweet. They did a great job upping the compressionr ate and variables in ambient and standard sound palettes. It sounds awesome! 5. The Co-Op play works seamlessly. I like the addition of Spartan Linda, as the Spartan player 2 is supposed to be playing. When you get to the chamber above the cyro room, where the elites broke thru, take a look at the monitors. If playing solo, the monitor for John-117, shows vitals. If playing Co-Op, the monitor next to it with Linda's info, then shows vitals and stats. very nice touch 343 and Saber Int.!!! 6. The achievments really fit the epic gamplay and difficulty of the original. It was really refreshing to see a nice non-standard and somewhat at times obsurd achievment requirement list. Kill 3 banshees, and 100 flood infections and such. Epic!!! 7. Touched up cinematics are great. The updated shaders really bring to life, some of the smaller previously un-noticed little things that go into them. Think the original detail on the POA. Some things now, just jump out at you. 8. The original gameplay is as epic as it ever was. 343 held to true to their goal of keeping CEA strictly CE and not outside newer engine influence. 9. It was only $40.00!!!!! 10. The grunt funeral skull is a way cool skull to have. The terminal are a very unique and great feature. The difficulty in finding them is well enough replay value to keep you searching well into the Halo 4 holiday season. Cons: 1. The co-op split-screen feature. Very poorly explained, and not well documented. It took me a good 20 minutes to get it all properly setup with a second profile on my console. 2. Grunt Funeral Skull is very dangewrous. Although it is quite useful in campaign on high difficulty settings, it just sucks they gave the damage multiplyer the same effect to the player. They should have reduced the blast to only knock out your shields....not completely descimate you. 3. Kinect only feature. While I thought originally this was a great feature....it is not. the only thing that I base this on, is that you have to use the kinect. I have a family that likes to sleep. they should have included an option to use the headset as a secondary option, when playing in solo. Using the kinect requires you to raise your audible vocals to a level that wakes everyone up and annoys neighbors. 4. Map Map Map, Map what? The multiplayer portion is not exactly as describes. They failed to drive home the point that with the CEA maps on the disc, you are limited to only the CEA Playlists, and not the general population playlists. I was totally pissed that i couldn't just launch Firefight Doubles on Installation 04, from CEA, but rather had to download the map pack firast, then switch over to Reach. It was a general understanding that all playlists would be available to CEA owners without the need to switch over or buy Reach when using the CEA maps. 5. Although not explained or touched on by 343 or SI, I find it very sad that they used the original games bsp collisions for the updated version running along side the original. I was under the impression, that the new geometry they added, would have added to the exploration of the original title... not just stop you completely by what appears to be "player walls" blocking you from doing so. When playing any game that appears to be larger in terms of mobility, you tend to think you can use the expanded geometry to your advantage on the battlefield. Although not a big deal, I find it strange they didn't just compile the bsp over with new collision, and just new bsp mesh....tends to instill laziness. It only takes mere minutes to compile collision data. 6. The skulls. In every halo title, grabbing the skulls instantly triggered the effects of said skull. I'm kinda let down that you have to find them, then activate them via the lobby. I would have preferred a mish-mash of Halo 2 and Halo Reach on this. I would have liked the option to trigger the effects instantly, and keep them until rebooting, or choosing a level, and then using them at will. Nothing big here either that breaks the deal.... just general annoyance. 7. Default controls. Now I know everyone has a default control scheme he or she likes, but with Halo 1, we had gotten so used to using the "b" button for melee attacks, I was completely thrown off when playing CEA. I was not expecting them to use the bumpers in the same way the default controls for Reach are layed out. I can't remember how many times I tried switching grenades only to end up meleeing the air. Very annoying until I got used to it. 8. The skulls themselves in general. When we first saw the names and the icons, we got a first impression that they were adding new skulls, not recycled ones with updated looks. The only new ones that haven't been tweaked based on a constant title ones, is the infinite ammo and pinata ones. 9. Too many updates to apply and too many codes to enter. The updates are annoying. Seems like everything Halo that you had gotten used to executing from the game library required an update. The codes for everything were a pain, especially the map pack. I am a firm believer that if I choose to install CEA to my harddrive, that there should be a cooperative effort between the new CEA maps and the standard Reach engine that allows those new maps to play off the installed game, not going thru the process of doing another 1.32gig download just to use them in standard reach disc play. 10. The switching of game modes. Yes giving us the ability to flash back to what the game used to look like was a great and very pain staking feature to add, but I am not sure I like the continual playing of the game while switching. What if I accidentally hit the switch button in the heat of battle? While the screen fades out, and back in, battles are still going on, and there is no pause in combat. that can lead to some very fustrating scenarios. In the end, I give this a 9.5 out of 10. greta concepts, execution and great game. All of my issues with it are mostly technicall code execution, but then again, that's the realm in which I mostly reside. BTW, sorry it ended up turning into the standard novel i usually post. Cheers!!

What in gods green earth are you talking about? What is a Forge Not?

The Reach engine passes no child, inhereted, or otherwise any engine code into the campaign for CEA. CEA and the Reach engine are running simutaniously side by side. The Reach portion of the engine yes, is the dominant engine, but every bit of code executed on the CEA campaign side of the egnine instances is from the original CE engine. At no point anywhere is Reach's Blam! version of the engine manipulating, controlling or dictating collisions, physics responses or in-game handling of any kind. When we switch modes, the only thing happening, is the engine of Reach, switchs over the updated bsp and shaders that are present in it. Think of switching game modes, actually switching over to a whole new instance of the game. Yes, the CEA remastered version has new graphic layers, but the code controlling the experience we felt in halo 1 is still in control in the remastered campaign.

If your going to go off and complain about bloom being a killer concept to the Halo titles, then you my friend either have no idea what bloom is, or you have a very strange way of explaining what you think/know bloom is. Bloom has been in every single Halo title released, and is core basics of weapon firing spread. There is nothing complicated about friendly fire or the betrayal system. I have been playing Halo a long time, and I have never experienced a teammate sticking someone just to have them run into the enemy and earn a few quick kills as a strategy. It takes skill to stick another skilled player, and by that reasoning, if you can easily stick a teammate in front you, why not just stick the enemy a few short meters away, and kill all three without the assistance of a mobile plant? The key point, is that the scenario you describe is small and extremely isolated, and would not effect a large margin of the gaming community. Would you defend the same stand point if the roles were reversed, and it was you, sticking an enemy not knowing a teammate was coming around the corner? Would you be satisfied to know your wreckless actions, and lack of being able to properly survey the battle field, led to a betrayal, and a possible boot? Or worse, maybe your ally was carrying a flag, and now you just killed your own flag carrier? Can you still defend the standpoint of having friendly fire then?

See, this is why I stick to decompiling and disassembling the game rather than reply to threads like this. basically in a nutshell, this whole thing was just some sort of test this guy created to use in some manor outside the site or for his own personal amusement? I'm not seeing anything Halo related in that usage, nor am I seeing any community goodwill. Spectral, lock this post please and lets move on.

Nice Headhunter...very awesome!

Head Hunter, you forgot the one where it warns members about my insane Obsessive Compulsive need to explain every technical detail and slam people for it. And that I burst many a bubblesn a daily basis. BTW, love the "Hates Toast" rank. Are we special uber elite since w ehave the only custom rank titles? I hope so...(jumps up and down).

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the halo 4 section, since it has nothing to do with "General Discussion"? I thought this section was for things that didn't directly deal with or have any content directly to a title or series...AKA the New Halo Trilogy? And yes Brony, you are correct. everyone should have seen that coming from me. Thats what i am good for around here i gues..hehe