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^that, plus if you're into mlg, this would make it incredibly easy to find people to scrim. And mlg ffa's would finally happen. Omg I want this.

Yep, definitely not personal. You definitely know what you're talking about, and that's what this forum needs.

I'm really glad there's some people that want to see this come back to life as much as I do. I'm just waiting for someone to come in here and shoot it down for technical reasons though :/

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F.ck, reaper, I can read. I understand how the spread works. Don't assume that because my opinion differs from yours that I'm not read up on the technical aspects of the game and the ramifications of said technical aspects. And let me say that you're the first person I've ever seen that has referred to just the visual representation as bloom. I'm pretty damn sure the community consensus and even Bungie (I could be mistaken, and if I am I apologize) refers to the changing spread of the dmr based on RoF as BLOOM. That might not be technically correct, but for all intensive purposes does it really matter whether or not that's the name denoted to it? Now, I did a bit more research, and you're completely right about the H1 bloom. For some reason I believed the spread to be less than it actually is. My B. I'm guess that's the way you'd prefer it? Halo 3 didn't have any sort of growing spread based on RoF, so I'm a little confused that we're at odds about that. It was simply random. And the reticule did in fact show the basic area in which the bullets would land within a certain distance. If that's not true than I might as well quit playing halo because I'm a dumb***. So the past 2 games have shown graphical representations of the spread, so my argument for the most part still stands. The dmr reticule shows the basic spread just like 2 and 3. Maybe not 1, but 2 and 3. And I think that's alright. I think reach's reticule works, and honestly, I like what you would want too. I'm not really too biased either way. I just wonder (I never played H1 competitively) whether there was a way of "whipping shots" in H1 like there is with the dmr. I'd be curious to know that. One more point: When I referred to tightening the bloom on the H3 BR I'm meaning that the shot groupings should have been closer together. I'm sorry you're too worried about defining bloom rather than adequately addressing my meaning. Do you enjoy reach?

I've got to say reach. Though I love the simplicity of H2 and how well it played, and I like the idea of leading your shots in H3 (the br needed to have a better spread), reach has the most entertaining/skillful/fun to watch gameplay from an MLG standpoint IMO. The dmr is the most skillful 4v4 main weapon to date, and sprint makes gameplay so much faster, which is awesome. I love it. :ugeek: EDIT: The H1 pistol is more skillful, but I'm not all about H1.

Twinreaper: On Bloom: So you don't have a problem with the spread of the weapon and how bungie has it set up for the dmr? You just have a problem with it being represented by a visible reticule? I guess I understand where you're going with that, but it seems kind of un.....haloish. In all the halos the reticule showed how far the spread was, and now that there's a mechanic called bloom where as the RoF increases the spread increases with it (the most noticeable change in that department of any weapon yet) doesn't it seem fitting that the reticule would also show how wide the spread is? I think your opinion makes a lot of sense, but is more oriented to other FPS's. It would make the game more difficult your way, but you got to think: all halos have shown the spread with the reticule, and why stop now? On Hitscan: If you want the game to be more realistic, you're completely right in saying that hitscan is not the way to do it. But if you take out the realism aspect hitscan makes for a great way to register shots online. It's far more reliable, and I think makes the game faster and more competitive, but that's just my opinion. I'm a h2 fanboy. I don't mind how H3 was for the most part. Leading shots is probably the way to go moving forward, and I hope to see it in H4. The problem with H3 was the randomness of the bloom. If it was tightened up some H3 would have gotten it right.

Gollum, sorry you had to explain your idea again. You didn't have to because I completely understood what you were going for from the beginning. We just disagree unfortunately.

It should be a beautiful Halo 2 that also has sprint, forge, and theatre. Yep, I'd be set for life. As far as 3vsReach I'd like to give my opinion: I'm not really a fan of equipment OR some of the AA's. I like sprint, and evade is fine the way mlg has it used. So I'd like these to be used minimally. The movement and scale of the game is far more important to me than any AA business though. Halo 3 was slow compared to reach, and in my opinion isn't near as entertaining or enjoyable. I think they really did something right in reach that lies in the feeling of the game. I wish I was more intelligent, because I'd love to explain this further, but all I'm saying is that they good the speed of the gameplay right. 3 was playable, but was the weakest of the halo series in my opinion.

The way I see it "spamming" is an element of the game that players have to be able to master to really excel at the game, and for me that's fine. "Spamming(mid-range)" isn't easy because if a player misses shots they're likely to lose their battle. It's the risk of playing that way. Someone who times their shots have a pretty even chance in this situation. If the spammer wins it's because he's ****ing good. Not because he's lucky. "Spamming(close-range)" is pretty simple, and I could understand your frustration there. But if the system is changed to increase either the recharge(whatever its is) or size of the bloom, then the dmr will be majority weakened in the mid-range battles which would slow down gameplay. I'll NEVER be for something that slows down gameplay. So close-range (where I'm sure you have most of your problems with bloom it seems) is just something you have to either learn to adapt too or you'll keep getting spammed. Part of the game is knowing when to do it and when not too, and it's also about getting your opponent to do the wrong thing as well.

Something I miss dearly from H2 were clans. I want to say that there was a legitimate technical reason that clans couldn't be included in H3/reach, but it was a wonderful thing to have a second huge list of people to party with and run customs with. If this could be reinstated in some form I'd be elated, and I'm sure the entire halo community would be in love with 343i for life. Now, of course, if there's a reason why it can't be then someone can go ahead and shoot this down. :?

So basically you would like to see the bloom become even harder to control, which in turn lowers the effectiveness of these weapons? Now I understand your intentions here. I realize that you'd like to reward timed shots versus quick shooting, but I really think that the bloom works very well as is. "Spamming" a five shot takes skill and isn't the result of a broken mechanic. You see, many players (a lot of pro players) have become very good at predicting where shots land within the bloom because there's a technique called whipping your shots. It takes a lot of practice to master and it adds a level of complexity that you didn't see in halo1/2/3. If your system was used this would go out the window and of course timing shots would be favored. I just believe that the balance the bloom is at its optimal level already. Pretty much your idea here is to weaken both the dmr and pistol. And under your 2) you meantion a situation where a person comes at you spamming a pistol. Here's the solution: STRAFE AND/OR DON'T MOVE FORWARD. It's not the weapons fault, it's the players. The bloom at its current level really does maximize skill IMO.

I know what you mean Rafter. I rely on Doubles and MLG for good gametypes, and I'm sure I'll be sticking to specific gametypes in H4 too. I think the most important thing 343 can do to please the community is to provide innovative and new OPTIONS. like...... Optional ADS that you can turn on and off depending on settings. Individual and adjustable weapon mechanics/values Keep AA's but give the option to be able to adjust specific values (ie. how long you can sprint for, the velocity of the jet pack, etc.) Be able to use theater with other players like H3 I'm sure there's other things but I need to think about it a bit.

As long as there's hardly a difference in accuracy between ADS and nonADS shooting I think it'd be fine. If it was a preference thing you know? If shooting ADS gives an advantage then camping will be much more common, and I really think that's a negative. It all depends on how it's done. I just don't want gameplay to slow down any.

One thing I never want to see enter halo multiplayer is "perks" or "attachments" that would affect the balance of the players. I've always thought of halo as a game where 8 people get thrown into an arena and have to duke it out with equal weapons/abilities on each side. Why? Because that promotes gameplay that relies solely on the smarts/talent/teamwork of each team. The minute you add more and more variables into the gameplay it becomes far too convoluted for competitive play. I'd be perfectly fine with many of these ideas in the realm of single player/firefight as it would make for a very realistic halo experience. It's just that me and much of the MLG community would prefer a simpler, more streamlined experience. H2 for me, imo.

There's a difference between spamming and knowing how to whip your shots while still shooting at full speed baykem. You should learn it. Anyways.....ADS: My question is this: Would player movement slow down while looking down the sights? If so I would disagree with adding ADS. I huge component of halo gameplay is strafing, and this might kill that. Even if it is more realistic I feel it's not the right direction to go. Halo gameplay is very unique in many ways and I personally wouldn't want halo to start being played like most other shooters. Buttttttt, if player speed isn't modified by looking down the sights I couldn't care less whether it's added or not.

I do think that the BR will most likely return, but I just hope to god that 343 will bring it back in the style of H2 and not H3. Due to the randomness of the bullets and the system of registering shots I personally feel that the H3 BR is inferior. When you shot the BR in H2 you could literally FEEL the shots connecting, and it was beautiful. That's what I'd like to see again. Now, if I really had the choice, I'd love to see the DMR or a single shot rifle make a return. The dmr is the most skillful primary weapon we've had since the H1 pistol, but I think many people don't understand Once a player puts the time in to learn how to whip shots the weapon because a work of art. At first I hated the bloom but it truly adds a level of complexity that's great for competitive gameplay. I mean, just look at the pro's dmrs. There's the proof. There's so much of a skill curve to the weapon and in my eyes that means it's perfect for competitive gaming........like halo.