Are Precursors Humans?

[Victory Element]

But they are GODS. They CREATED life. How could they possibly be beaten by their own creations? Flood or Forerunners, we still don't know enough to talk about this.

 

so you still dont agree with my peacetime theory?? the precursors probably never expectd to be rebelled against

[SternuS]

this can still comply with my theory. The precurosrs may have had weapons, but did they actually have an army to use them?? I think that they used the weapons to wipe out life in their previous galaxy, but they they no longer needed anyone too use them since they were the only race alive. And why would they have an army if they were the original keepers of the Mantle?? The are supposed to protect and preserve life, and army only destroys it

so you still dont agree with my peacetime theory?? the precursors probably never expectd to be rebelled against

 

No. If they wiped out the previous life (wich is a hardly-believable theory, we should stay on what we know), and they can crate life, what was the previous life?

And how could they have never expected to be rebelled against?

Why should they keep the Mantle, when they exterminated their creators/creations? The Forerunner too rebelled against their creators, like the Precursors did, so why aren't they capable of keeping the Mantle?

Take a look at Director's posts.

Why did the Forerunners rebelled?

Why did the Precursors crated them? Why should they leave the galaxy?

Why did they created the Flood? If it was a test, why not another humanoid race? Why a parasite?

As you can see, there are many questions that, though they may have a fan-made theory, have no final answer.

[Victory Element]

No. If they wiped out the previous life (wich is a hardly-believable theory, we should stay on what we know), and they can crate life, what was the previous life?

And how could they have never expected to be rebelled against?

Why should they keep the Mantle, when they exterminated their creators/creations? The Forerunner too rebelled against their creators, like the Precursors did, so why aren't they capable of keeping the Mantle?

Take a look at Director's posts.

Why did the Forerunners rebelled?

Why did the Precursors crated them? Why should they leave the galaxy?

Why did they created the Flood? If it was a test, why not another humanoid race? Why a parasite?

As you can see, there are many questions that, though they may have a fan-made theory, have no final answer.

 

i counted around 8 questions there and i will try to get to them all

 

1. It doesnt really matter what the previous life in the galaxy was. It is all gone and it wont affect the halo universe at this point

 

2. If you had just created an entire species of life, would you expect it to suddenly turn on you?? why would they, the creators, even expect their creation to have conflict with them after they had lived in peace for years??

 

3. it is very likely that their creators were almost the same as them. They used a test ,like how precursors use the flood, to see would be worthy to inherit the mantle. It may not have been the precurors who wiped out all life, but it may have been the "test", Making the precursors the only species that was able to survive the test. Then that would give them the role of keeping the mantle. And the primordial said the humans would be "tested by floods" to see if they were worthy of the mantle. And the cycle continues....

 

4. When the forerunners rebelled, it was probably at a time when precursors did not need a new species to take the mantle. They had not used a test or anything because they had the life in the galaxy was the way they wanted it to be and they themselves were thriving. When the forerunners rebelled, they were not being tested to inherit the mantle, so it probably made the precursors pissed off. They decided these acts of violence made the forerunners unworhty of the mantle becuase they were destorying life.

 

there is a key difference in this act of the forerunners defeating the precursors......the forerunners REBELLED, they were not TESTED

 

5. I anyone knew why the foerunners rebelled, we would have discussed this by now. Hopefully it is revealed in Silentium. and my peacetime theory is meant to explain why the precursos lost. It is not meant to say why the war started

 

6. The precurors created the forerunners because there was no other life in the galaxy. If they were in charge of protecting and preserving life, what did they have to protect??Nothing. So they took charge and created life with good intentions.

 

7. I dont see why it matters if they left the galaxy. If your species was on the verge of extinction, wouldnt you try to escape to someplace safe?? that only place being out of the galaxy for the precursors. They only left so they could live, why would they take the chance of staying and becoming extinct??

 

8. I have explained this before, the flood was an earlier form of the precursor species. It was also a test. With the precurosrs being driven out of the galaxy, someone would have to take control of the mantle in that galaxy. The flood, being the same species as the precusors, would test the life in the galaxy for their worthiness of the mantle. And if no species prevailed, then the flood would just evovle again and become precursors.

 

i have a theory for why the test would not be a humanoid race. First reason is that the flood and precursors are the same, so why would the precurors create a brand new species to test the others?? they could just do it themselves when they felt the time for the test was ready. second reason, in the previous galaxy with life, the keepers of the mantle were probably a humanoid species. With the flood being a a parasite, they were easily able to pass the test of a humanoid species. Then they eventually evovled and became precursors. And these reasons also explain why the precursors even used a parasite as the test

 

i hope these answers sound good enough for you. If you have questions, please ask them so i can clarify for you. It will also help improve my theory

[SternuS]

i counted around 8 questions there and i will try to get to them all

 

1. It doesnt really matter what the previous life in the galaxy was. It is all gone and it wont affect the halo universe at this point

 

2. If you had just created an entire species of life, would you expect it to suddenly turn on you?? why would they, the creators, even expect their creation to have conflict with them after they had lived in peace for years??

 

3. it is very likely that their creators were almost the same as them. They used a test ,like how precursors use the flood, to see would be worthy to inherit the mantle. It may not have been the precurors who wiped out all life, but it may have been the "test", Making the precursors the only species that was able to survive the test. Then that would give them the role of keeping the mantle. And the primordial said the humans would be "tested by floods" to see if they were worthy of the mantle. And the cycle continues....

 

4. When the forerunners rebelled, it was probably at a time when precursors did not need a new species to take the mantle. They had not used a test or anything because they had the life in the galaxy was the way they wanted it to be and they themselves were thriving. When the forerunners rebelled, they were not being tested to inherit the mantle, so it probably made the precursors pissed off. They decided these acts of violence made the forerunners unworhty of the mantle becuase they were destorying life.

 

there is a key difference in this act of the forerunners defeating the precursors......the forerunners REBELLED, they were not TESTED

 

5. I anyone knew why the foerunners rebelled, we would have discussed this by now. Hopefully it is revealed in Silentium. and my peacetime theory is meant to explain why the precursos lost. It is not meant to say why the war started

 

6. The precurors created the forerunners because there was no other life in the galaxy. If they were in charge of protecting and preserving life, what did they have to protect??Nothing. So they took charge and created life with good intentions.

 

7. I dont see why it matters if they left the galaxy. If your species was on the verge of extinction, wouldnt you try to escape to someplace safe?? that only place being out of the galaxy for the precursors. They only left so they could live, why would they take the chance of staying and becoming extinct??

 

8. I have explained this before, the flood was an earlier form of the precursor species. It was also a test. With the precurosrs being driven out of the galaxy, someone would have to take control of the mantle in that galaxy. The flood, being the same species as the precusors, would test the life in the galaxy for their worthiness of the mantle. And if no species prevailed, then the flood would just evovle again and become precursors.

 

i have a theory for why the test would not be a humanoid race. First reason is that the flood and precursors are the same, so why would the precurors create a brand new species to test the others?? they could just do it themselves when they felt the time for the test was ready. second reason, in the previous galaxy with life, the keepers of the mantle were probably a humanoid species. With the flood being a a parasite, they were easily able to pass the test of a humanoid species. Then they eventually evovled and became precursors. And these reasons also explain why the precursors even used a parasite as the test

 

i hope these answers sound good enough for you. If you have questions, please ask them so i can clarify for you. It will also help improve my theory

Nice.

Let's discuss:

1-Agreed, let's focus on the known Universe;

 

2-Indeed they wouldn't expect a rebellion....for a reason we still don't know. But, if i was a Precursor that created a Forerunner, couldn't i possibly destroy it as like as i gave an existance to it?

 

3-Mmh. The theory of the life pre-Precursors is not clear enough to me. I mean, it's all supposed. The Primordial said the Humans would be tested by Flood, but he hasn't confirmed that Precursors are Floods. Although being itself a Gravemind composed by Precursors.

 

4-And this suggests me another question: why should they give the Mantle to others? I mean, they're capable of keeping it, why should they leave it to another inferior race? (i agree with that rebelled/tested thing)

 

5-I would say it's quite a gap, isn't it? It's the Focus point of everything. I HOPE Greg knows what he's doing.

 

6-The Mantle isn't referred only to those two races (as i remember, maybe i'm wrong). So they created all the animals and plants?

 

7-They could have also ran out from the entire Universe, i don't care. What i ask, as stated before, is "was the retreat the only way to survive? Couldn't they possibly destroy the Forerunners, or at least have a truce with them?" There's still that gap...

 

8- To answer this question, i have read again the last chapter of Primordium (obviously the italian version, so it's me trying to translate). The few hints that the Primordial gives are these: when the Didact asks him if he was the last of the Precursors, he said: "The last of this kind". This kind.

Another one: "We, the Flood, the same thing". Is he saying that Precursors and Flood are the same? Or is he talking as a Gravemind of Precursors? Wich is different: the first means obviously that ALL the Precursors were Flood, the second means that only the Precursors that are composing his body are Flood (wich is true).

It's too vague. There is no assertion, no objective description. Just hints.

I won't agree that Precursors are Flood, until it is clearly said.

 

Ah, we must admit that Greg Bears is giving us something to discuss for a long period, isn't him?

[Victory Element]

Indeed he is sternuS. but i have a feeling more will be revealed in halo 4. Frank O'connor said in an interview that the flood wouldnt be an enemy in the game, but they will have role in the story. Or he may just be hinting the legendary ending, which i hope has to do with the flood

[SternuS]

Indeed he is sternuS. but i have a feeling more will be revealed in halo 4. Frank O'connor said in an interview that the flood wouldnt be an enemy in the game, but they will have role in the story. Or he may just be hinting the legendary ending, which i hope has to do with the flood

We MUST learn about this in Halo 4. It's called the Reclaimer trilogy, isn't it? There's must be a connection between the Reclaimer trilogy and the Forerunner trilogy.

[Re5pwning]

I myself havent read the books. But from reading everything in this topic I think i might have an Idea for why the precursors left and why the Forerunners rebelled. It may be a bit simple but it makes sense to me. I think that the Precursors, looking for a race to uphold the mantle created the flood. This makes sense to me from the quote I have been seeing "tested by floods". Whats more like a flood than a parasite that will keep growing, keep devouring mindlessly, Nothing. So if they wanted to test the Ancient Humans why do it with anything else but a parasite? I also think thats why the forerunners rebelled. They got wind of this plan believing (and it might have been) it was a test against them and decided to rebel to stop this from happening. Now after the Precursors place flood by the Human colonies, and with the outbreaks happening in their sector they decide to leave as it is too risky to stay and expose themselves to the parasite and they also want to see how the Ancient humans and forerunners handle this on their own. So the Precursors leave and the humans are left trying to stop the flood. The forerunners having (to their knowledge) kicked the precursors out of the galaxy believe that they have stopped their plan before it started (They believe the flood havent been created). Which is why the Humans controlling forerunner space angered them for reasons already posted and it goes on from there. It makes sense to me and it seems like something that would happen.

[SternuS]

I myself havent read the books. But from reading everything in this topic I think i might have an Idea for why the precursors left and why the Forerunners rebelled. It may be a bit simple but it makes sense to me. I think that the Precursors, looking for a race to uphold the mantle created the flood. This makes sense to me from the quote I have been seeing "tested by floods". Whats more like a flood than a parasite that will keep growing, keep devouring mindlessly, Nothing. So if they wanted to test the Ancient Humans why do it with anything else but a parasite? I also think thats why the forerunners rebelled. They got wind of this plan believing (and it might have been) it was a test against them and decided to rebel to stop this from happening. Now after the Precursors place flood by the Human colonies, and with the outbreaks happening in their sector they decide to leave as it is too risky to stay and expose themselves to the parasite and they also want to see how the Ancient humans and forerunners handle this on their own. So the Precursors leave and the humans are left trying to stop the flood. The forerunners having (to their knowledge) kicked the precursors out of the galaxy believe that they have stopped their plan before it started (They believe the flood havent been created). Which is why the Humans controlling forerunner space angered them for reasons already posted and it goes on from there. It makes sense to me and it seems like something that would happen.

 

Actually, i think that the Forerunners didn't know about the Flood. They would have prepared themselfs for such a terrible enemy. Instead, when the Forerunner-Human war started, they didn't know why were the Humans invading their territory. Only when they defeated them, they understood the Humans were fleeing from the Flood, and when it infested the Forerunners colonies they didn't know how to fight it. Then they discovered the Humans had a "weapon", something to use against the parasite, and that would have stopped it.

But they had already de-evoluted them, and while their colonies were falling, they tried to take some flood spores to study them and to understand how could the Humans had fought them.

But while they (the Builders and Mendicant Bias) were testing the Halo array on an abbandoned Human World, they discovered something. A living being, a prisoner, that proclaimed himself as the last of the Precursors. Immediately, they put Mendicant Bias to ask him who was him, where he came from, and stuff like this. Probably, they also asked him how could they stop the Flood.

But they didn't like the answers. He revealed something to them, something we don't know (probably what was the Flood, or how should the Forerunners end this conflict), that made Mendicant Bias go crazy, like in a rampancy stage.

This is why i think they didn't know about the Flood. IF they knew everything, why should they put an advanced AI to ask questions to a so-called Precursor? Why should they fight the Humans, if they knew that MAYBE the Flood was still alive?

 

And the Precursors didn't left the galaxy. They were forced by the Forerunners that rebelled against them to flee away, and the last survivors are hidden in the boarders of the Milky Way. This is what the Primordial One reported.

Wich was a Gravemind of Precursors.

[Victory Element]

Actually, i think that the Forerunners didn't know about the Flood. They would have prepared themselfs for such a terrible enemy. Instead, when the Forerunner-Human war started, they didn't know why were the Humans invading their territory. Only when they defeated them, they understood the Humans were fleeing from the Flood, and when it infested the Forerunners colonies they didn't know how to fight it. Then they discovered the Humans had a "weapon", something to use against the parasite, and that would have stopped it.

But they had already de-evoluted them, and while their colonies were falling, they tried to take some flood spores to study them and to understand how could the Humans had fought them.

But while they (the Builders and Mendicant Bias) were testing the Halo array on an abbandoned Human World, they discovered something. A living being, a prisoner, that proclaimed himself as the last of the Precursors. Immediately, they put Mendicant Bias to ask him who was him, where he came from, and stuff like this. Probably, they also asked him how could they stop the Flood.

But they didn't like the answers. He revealed something to them, something we don't know (probably what was the Flood, or how should the Forerunners end this conflict), that made Mendicant Bias go crazy, like in a rampancy stage.

This is why i think they didn't know about the Flood. IF they knew everything, why should they put an advanced AI to ask questions to a so-called Precursor? Why should they fight the Humans, if they knew that MAYBE the Flood was still alive?

 

And the Precursors didn't left the galaxy. They were forced by the Forerunners that rebelled against them to flee away, and the last survivors are hidden in the boarders of the Milky Way. This is what the Primordial One reported.

Wich was a Gravemind of Precursors.

 

your post remimded me of some information about the primordial that i have neglected to mention. First piece of info is about the ancient humans. They had discovered the primordial and interogated him before the forerunner human war. When they asked the primordial about his origins, he gave an answer, and many of the humans that were present at the interrogation either commited suicide or went insane. Soon after, they locked up the primordial in a precursor structure. The humans had been fighitng the flood that time ,and the exact answer that the primordial gave was unknown. I would assume it has something to do with precursors and the flood being the same.

 

the other piece of info is in regards to the purpose of the halo rings. The rings were designed to destroys the flood's food, not the flood itself. the humans had been driven off of the planet with the primordial and it became forerunner territory. The forerunners conducted a test of one of the halo near that system. The blast from the rings wore away the sturcure that the primordial was contained in, and set him free. But notice how it didnt destroy him, because it is meant to destroy the flood's food. This is more evidence to the fact that the flood and precursors are the same

[Re5pwning]

your post remimded me of some information about the primordial that i have neglected to mention. First piece of info is about the ancient humans. They had discovered the primordial and interogated him before the forerunner human war. When they asked the primordial about his origins, he gave an answer, and many of the humans that were present at the interrogation either commited suicide or went insane. Soon after, they locked up the primordial in a precursor structure. The humans had been fighitng the flood that time ,and the exact answer that the primordial gave was unknown. I would assume it has something to do with precursors and the flood being the same.

 

the other piece of info is in regards to the purpose of the halo rings. The rings were designed to destroys the flood's food, not the flood itself. the humans had been driven off of the planet with the primordial and it became forerunner territory. The forerunners conducted a test of one of the halo near that system. The blast from the rings wore away the sturcure that the primordial was contained in, and set him free. But notice how it didnt destroy him, because it is meant to destroy the flood's food. This is more evidence to the fact that the flood and precursors are the same

 

From what I've heard in this descussion so far (Im kinda new to lore of the universe before the UNSC) is that the Primordial was a Precursor that was infected by a flood spore and became a Grave mind. So that would explain why he didnt die. But that doesnt make all Precursors are ALL flood. But I love your theory so far.

[Turkishxroyal]

Forerunners were technologically advanced cuz they were the first to integrate Precursor tech into their own. Humans were confined to worlds that didn't have Precursor tech. When the first human-flood war happened, humans started to expand further into the universe and found precursor tech which they then integrated into their own and became on par with forerunners technologically. their encroachment on forerunner territory caused the human-forerunner war. Forerunners then de-evolved humans by destroying all their tech and built libraries and rings in the formerly human controlled parts of the universe during the forerunner-flood war that followed. Forerunners thought of humans and other aliens as inferior.

 

With that said, who knows what the precursors were. It would be interesting if they were humans who engineered forerunners and other alien species and then were killed by the flood, only to encounter them twice more in the Halo Universe. Kinda like an evolutionary inevitability. Once humanity advances to a certain technological level and superiority, the flood will appear to take them down a few notches. Yin and Yang.

 

if the forerunners were at war with humans then why did they give humans all the power of firing the halo rings??

[The Director]

if the forerunners were at war with humans then why did they give humans all the power of firing the halo rings??

Wha? o.O I don't know which I'm more confused by, the fact that you don't think the humans and forerunners went to war, or that you think the humans fired the Halo rings.

[SternuS]

Wha? o.O I don't know which I'm more confused by, the fact that you don't think the humans and forerunners went to war, or that you think the humans fired the Halo rings.

Probably he means, wich is a proper question, why were the Humans the only capable of firing the Rings?

 

Well, i honestly don't remember if it is written in Cryptum or Primordium...actually i don't think it is mentioned anywhere. Probably the Forerunners, when discovered that the Humans would have been "tested" 100,000 years ahead, they made the Humans capable of destroy again the Flood, if they failed to do that before.

I don't know, it is just my opinion...hope everything will be explained in Silentium.

 

From what I've heard in this descussion so far (Im kinda new to lore of the universe before the UNSC) is that the Primordial was a Precursor that was infected by a flood spore and became a Grave mind. So that would explain why he didnt die. But that doesnt make all Precursors are ALL flood. But I love your theory so far.

Actually the Primordial was a Gravemind of Precursors, wich means many Precursors in a single body, forming a Gravemind. It doesn't necessarily means that Precursors=Flood, indeed.

[Re5pwning]

if the forerunners were at war with humans then why did they give humans all the power of firing the halo rings??

From my knowledge, The Forerunners made the Halo Rings fireable by themselves but Humans are so alike the Forerunners (From what I've heard) that they have the ability to do so,. Thats why the Covanent couldnt because they were nothing like the Forerunners were. In other words I heard that the forerunners and Humans are alike somewhat like "Caveman" and modern human.

[Victory Element]

From what I've heard in this descussion so far (Im kinda new to lore of the universe before the UNSC) is that the Primordial was a Precursor that was infected by a flood spore and became a Grave mind. So that would explain why he didnt die. But that doesnt make all Precursors are ALL flood. But I love your theory so far.

 

welcome to the deepest fition you will ever find.....

 

i may be exagerating a bit. I'm glad to see that you like my theory

[Son Of Anarchy]

Highly illogical

Thank you my good sir. I don't see how humans could even be the Precursors.

[drunknmasta323]

your post remimded me of some information about the primordial that i have neglected to mention. First piece of info is about the ancient humans. They had discovered the primordial and interogated him before the forerunner human war. When they asked the primordial about his origins, he gave an answer, and many of the humans that were present at the interrogation either commited suicide or went insane. Soon after, they locked up the primordial in a precursor structure. The humans had been fighitng the flood that time ,and the exact answer that the primordial gave was unknown. I would assume it has something to do with precursors and the flood being the same.

 

the other piece of info is in regards to the purpose of the halo rings. The rings were designed to destroys the flood's food, not the flood itself. the humans had been driven off of the planet with the primordial and it became forerunner territory. The forerunners conducted a test of one of the halo near that system. The blast from the rings wore away the sturcure that the primordial was contained in, and set him free. But notice how it didnt destroy him, because it is meant to destroy the flood's food. This is more evidence to the fact that the flood and precursors are the same

 

Okay, my issue with this is the same as it has been before. If the precursors were driven off by the forerunners, and precursors were graveminds, then forerunners would have knowledge of how to defeat them or at the very least "drive them off". whereas all info, especially this posting, shows that the previous gravemind was interrogated first by humans. so the timeline makes no sense. you have precursors creating life and carrying the mantle. you have the precursor sons, humans and forerunners. precursors choose the human son as the inheritor of the mantle. forerunners rebel. humans are then "tested" by floods and are failing which causes them to cast aside the worlds which the flood was overrunning. in order to flee with massive populations, they had to find other worlds to populate. these were occupied at least partially and under the control of forerunners, who, seem to have no idea the flood is around or that they are at war with the humans on the other side of the human controlled territory. once the forerunners defeat the humans, they discover the flood and begin to empathize at least partially (especially didact) with the human expansion into their territory. so, if forerunners were fighting graveminds (precursors), they would have interrogated or have knowledge in their archives about how graveminds came to be, etc. if forerunners had fought the flood (precursors), they would have experience in succeeding to drive them away. instead, they build a bunch of rings which wipe out the flood food supply. i'm guessing the halo rings are also based in precursor technology. this brings up other questions, but also answers the fact that forerunners had no prior knowledge of flood/gravemind/precursors which would mean whatever beings they drove out were not these flood/gravemind/precursors. there is definitely a link between precursors and the timeless one. but it does not seem to be that the timeless one is a precursor itself.

[Victory Element]

Okay, my issue with this is the same as it has been before. If the precursors were driven off by the forerunners, and precursors were graveminds, then forerunners would have knowledge of how to defeat them or at the very least "drive them off". whereas all info, especially this posting, shows that the previous gravemind was interrogated first by humans. so the timeline makes no sense. you have precursors creating life and carrying the mantle. you have the precursor sons, humans and forerunners. precursors choose the human son as the inheritor of the mantle. forerunners rebel. humans are then "tested" by floods and are failing which causes them to cast aside the worlds which the flood was overrunning. in order to flee with massive populations, they had to find other worlds to populate. these were occupied at least partially and under the control of forerunners, who, seem to have no idea the flood is around or that they are at war with the humans on the other side of the human controlled territory. once the forerunners defeat the humans, they discover the flood and begin to empathize at least partially (especially didact) with the human expansion into their territory. so, if forerunners were fighting graveminds (precursors), they would have interrogated or have knowledge in their archives about how graveminds came to be, etc. if forerunners had fought the flood (precursors), they would have experience in succeeding to drive them away. instead, they build a bunch of rings which wipe out the flood food supply. i'm guessing the halo rings are also based in precursor technology. this brings up other questions, but also answers the fact that forerunners had no prior knowledge of flood/gravemind/precursors which would mean whatever beings they drove out were not these flood/gravemind/precursors. there is definitely a link between precursors and the timeless one. but it does not seem to be that the timeless one is a precursor itself.

 

i have explained so much other stuff to answer these questions in other posts. If you read my theory about the precursors being peacefull, then that explains why they were drvien off so easily. If they had controll of the mantle, why would they be prepared to go to war with the life that they must protect??

 

And if the foreruners had know knowledge of the flood, then they clearly never questioned the preucrsors about their origins. and having an entire population of graveminds/precursors is much different than the regular flood. One of my theorires explains how precursors are the most developed form of the flood, or the level above graveminds. They had wiped out the life in the previous galaxy as the regular flood, and slowly evovled into precurors. So the forerunners would have no knowledge about how the precursors had evovledsince they hadnt been created yet

 

with your concern about the primordial not being a preucrsor itself, didnt he say something to the Didact like "i am the last of those who gave breath to you" or something similar??

 

and my timeline has not been put in any particular order. I have developed my theories more and more as people have questioned them in specific parts. I plan on putting my precursors theories into a topic of their own since they are soo spread out.