Legitgit200 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 It ruins the flow of battle because you can shoot and go hey I'm gonna fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandiBunni Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 When you use the Jet-Pack it's much harder to avoid gunfire. Maneuvering in the air is pretty difficult, not to mention that your Jet-Pack makes a lot of noise, alerting everyone to your position on the map (as does being high up in the air) . It can provide some benefits like seeing over cover and being able to get to certain areas quicker, but you have to trade much of your movement, your ability to dodge enemy fire well, and give away your location to do so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skummgummigubbe Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 When you use the Jet-Pack it's much harder to avoid gunfire. Maneuvering in the air is pretty difficult, not to mention that your Jet-Pack makes a lot of noise, alerting everyone to your position on the map (as does being high up in the air) . It can provide some benefits like seeing over cover and being able to get to certain areas quicker, but you have to trade much of your movement, your ability to dodge enemy fire well, and give away your location to do so. well that Bunni said. i never use other armor abilities than sprint i think they are pretty useless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatanicBagels Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 While it is true that jet pack is very hard to use in combat scenarios I cannot stress the damages it caused to map flow enough. It is a difficult concept to understand fully because you tend to not think about stuff like it very often. Every good map in multiplayer for every game since the beginning of time has been designed with a pattern of flow. For example in Countdown. It had lifts and ramps for quick access to the upper tiers. The flow of the map tends to be up the ramps and stairs and then towards sword once at the top floor. There are routes meant to be used to support this flow. Jetpacks, on the other hand, break it. A player with a jetpack is allowed to bypass all the standard routes by just gunning it from the lower level to the upper areas. This chaotic variety of new paths being added creates confusion in a map. Confusion is never a good thing when it comes to level design. Players like and need to have definite map flow, and if they don't then they are liable to feel cheated when things don't work out the way they should. For these reasons I do not believe that the jetpack should be brought back in its current form. The only way I think it would be fine is if it worked as a double or triple jump type feature so as not to grossly effect map flow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE INHERITOR Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 jet pack is kewl Jet pack is a armor ability that allows you to fly for a limited amount of time but but then it slowly recharges. While in combat it can be hard to kill your oppenent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biggles Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 jet pack is kewl Jet pack is a armor ability that allows you to fly for a limited amount of time but but then it slowly recharges. While in combat it can be hard to kill your oppenent. Well done, you specified what Jetpack Was. I like Jetpack, it adds a new and fresh element to the game and explores new angles, it may wreck map flow, but, i can see it being used as a way to make map flow better for halo 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu♥Hayabusa Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 While it is true that jet pack is very hard to use in combat scenarios I cannot stress the damages it caused to map flow enough. It is a difficult concept to understand fully because you tend to not think about stuff like it very often. Every good map in multiplayer for every game since the beginning of time has been designed with a pattern of flow. For example in Countdown. It had lifts and ramps for quick access to the upper tiers. The flow of the map tends to be up the ramps and stairs and then towards sword once at the top floor. There are routes meant to be used to support this flow. Jetpacks, on the other hand, break it. A player with a jetpack is allowed to bypass all the standard routes by just gunning it from the lower level to the upper areas. This chaotic variety of new paths being added creates confusion in a map. Confusion is never a good thing when it comes to level design. Players like and need to have definite map flow, and if they don't then they are liable to feel cheated when things don't work out the way they should. For these reasons I do not believe that the jetpack should be brought back in its current form. The only way I think it would be fine is if it worked as a double or triple jump type feature so as not to grossly effect map flow. I respect you and your posts. You know this well. But I must finally argue one point with you. The map flow argument has been largely invalid since the First Halo. I will explain why. In countdown, at spawn, the Jet-Pack is easily beat to the sword because of the roof. A sprinter can sprint to the lifts and use the remaining sprint to grab the sword. All before the Jet-Packer can even land on the catwalk. On Powerhouse, Sprint will beat the Jet-Pack to the rockets due to the few obstructions between the players and the Rockets. Many more maps have the same design. Let-Pack rarely beats Sprint anywhere unless it is to the top of a mountain. Then the valid side of the argument is the ease of escaping a grounded opponent to jump a wall or building. This was intended, but if you notice, Jet-Pack stutters at first. It doesn't Immediately accelerate to top speed. That is to slow down the fleet and give the attacker a chance to get in a few shots. And to further hinder movement. While Jet-Packing you do go the same speed as a Spartan on the ground, but you can't strafe or maneuver as fast. Now, to the dis-proving part of my post. Map flow has always been broken. It, in reality, is an illusionary concept. Developers initially do predict and intend a certain flow of players, but past that, the map flow is just a hopeful concept. There is one thing that has always broken Map Flow in every game in history. The Human. See, players can choose to sprint and jump an otherwise impossible gap to quickly escape an area. Trick jumping is also a major flow breaker. Any window or bridge in Sword Base is accessible to a Sprinter. Just time the jump, and you can cross the map. Bungie probably never intended this. Hog jumping to a high area to quickly access a space also is a concern. While Jet-Pack is more commonly used, before Jet-Pack, these were primary sources of flow-breaking. In Foundry, fusion coil jumping could propel you to the rockets, taking away the need to climb the stairs and perfectly jump the gap. There are so many flow breaking exploits that can not be ousted without ruining gameplay, but no one complained until it simply became easier to do. While your argument is partially valid, flow has always been broken and the only way to prevent it is to eliminate jumping, explosions, and overall fun. Nerfing Jet-Pack will only work until people learn how to exploit Halo 4's physics in a manner that allows for more shortcuts and, you guessed it, flow break. I never guessed I would ever have reason to debate one of your points. Oh, and those who completely whine about it (You definitely don't, don't worry.) are either usually not aware enough to properly counter it, or they just get killed by a skilled Jet-Packer a lot. Those types should just watch the skies. It's not like we don't already have to watch for flying vehicles. >.> Hopefully, 343 can create maps that allow for effective use of it, but largely keep the illusionary map flow in check. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36-2071 Pragmatic Avarice Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 There's seriously too much flooding going on with these complaint threads, can't we pick up on reducing repetitive topics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mACca431 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The Jet PAck isnt returning there is a thruster pack but it is more like evade than the jet pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SykoWolf Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The thruster pack will probably have more power behind it, but work more like a quick escape rather then a combat tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatanicBagels Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Now, to the dis-proving part of my post. Map flow has always been broken. It, in reality, is an illusionary concept. Developers initially do predict and intend a certain flow of players, but past that, the map flow is just a hopeful concept. There is one thing that has always broken Map Flow in every game in history. The Human. See, players can choose to sprint and jump an otherwise impossible gap to quickly escape an area. Trick jumping is also a major flow breaker. Any window or bridge in Sword Base is accessible to a Sprinter. Just time the jump, and you can cross the map. Bungie probably never intended this. Hog jumping to a high area to quickly access a space also is a concern. While Jet-Pack is more commonly used, before Jet-Pack, these were primary sources of flow-breaking. In Foundry, fusion coil jumping could propel you to the rockets, taking away the need to climb the stairs and perfectly jump the gap. There are so many flow breaking exploits that can not be ousted without ruining gameplay, but no one complained until it simply became easier to do. Map flow is not an illusion. Its one of the first things somebody works out after thinking up a map, and everything else that is added will be to compliment this flow. By the time the game is released any major trick jumps will have been weeded out anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderWombat Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The Jet PAck isnt returning there is a thruster pack but it is more like evade than the jet pack. The jet pack is returning also, but I think it just like a thruster pack but upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VEF214 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I do love my constant height advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB77 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The jet pack to me was pretty useless. You usually couldn't get to higher positions undetected (Relflection for example). You can not use it to escape a fight in most situations. In fact if you try to fly away in a 1v1 battle you will expose yourself to one or two more people who will pelt you with dmr rounds. I think the reason jetpack was used a lot was because of lazyness and the ability of being able to use your weapon while you use the armor ability. Now you could do that with active camo but you lose the benefits of having the armor ability switched on. Countdown is a great example of how the jetpack ruined map flow. It was a great map with tons of levels that just got ruined by the jetpack. I hardly ever use jetpack unless in a situation where i have tto reach a camper from behind. I usually use sprint an on close quater maps with teams i will use armor lock and be the bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallgeese Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 jet Pack is indeed returning, it was first seen in a Spartan Ops vid, and now has been seen in War Games. However, I along with some of the others do not like Jet Pack. The only good ability is Sprint in my opinion, but than again as Spartan super soldiers one would think they could sprint anyways lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Element Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The thruster pack will probably have more power behind it, but work more like a quick escape rather then a combat tool. thruster pack is just like a speed boost that thrusts you forward at high speeds. I have a feeling it can be used like evade but with no rolling. but the jetpack only seems to make combat harder. You become a sitting duck up in the air with no cover and you are constantly moving whcih makes aiming more difficult. It is meant as a way to change your elevation on a map quickly, not as weapon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forerunner Reclaimer Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I really don't mind the jetpack... I only use it either to hijack air vehicles or just to get to some high points on a certain map. But other than that I barely use it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitgit200 Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The Jet PAck isnt returning there is a thruster pack but it is more like evade than the jet pack. Not true on the first showing of the shotgun the guy was using jet-pack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forerunner Reclaimer Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 The Jet PAck isnt returning there is a thruster pack but it is more like evade than the jet pack. There will be jet packs and thruster packs in the game.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legitgit200 Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Forunner is right and I appreciate his comment to my topic and all the rest of you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu♥Hayabusa Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 thruster pack is just like a speed boost that thrusts you forward at high speeds. I have a feeling it can be used like evade but with no rolling. but the jetpack only seems to make combat harder. You become a sitting duck up in the air with no cover and you are constantly moving whcih makes aiming more difficult. It is meant as a way to change your elevation on a map quickly, not as weapon Lol. I never miss shots with jetpack. You have to be fluid with your movements. Most people jerk their controls around while aiming. Jetpack makes that harder to do. We'll never know if it was intended as transport only due to the fact that you can shoot while using it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mACca431 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 There will be jet packs and thruster packs in the game.. Oh i didn't see it in the loadouts screen so I thought it wouldn't be returning Maybe it's just a spartan ops/campaign/ forge thing that isn't I'm standard multiplayer Though the video I saw explaining the load out screen was from the e3 build of the game so it migh have been added since then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryu♥Hayabusa Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Oh i didn't see it in the loadouts screen so I thought it wouldn't be returning Maybe it's just a spartan ops/campaign/ forge thing that isn't I'm standard multiplayer Though the video I saw explaining the load out screen was from the e3 build of the game so it migh have been added since then Oh, no, it's in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruSlick87 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I mostly use Hologram...but I like Jet pack for certain maps to get to high places and/or to get somewhere faster...Just like everything else it has it's uses and disadvantages >) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkNazo Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 While it is true that jet pack is very hard to use in combat scenarios I cannot stress the damages it caused to map flow enough. It is a difficult concept to understand fully because you tend to not think about stuff like it very often. Every good map in multiplayer for every game since the beginning of time has been designed with a pattern of flow. For example in Countdown. It had lifts and ramps for quick access to the upper tiers. The flow of the map tends to be up the ramps and stairs and then towards sword once at the top floor. There are routes meant to be used to support this flow. Jetpacks, on the other hand, break it. A player with a jetpack is allowed to bypass all the standard routes by just gunning it from the lower level to the upper areas. This chaotic variety of new paths being added creates confusion in a map. Confusion is never a good thing when it comes to level design. Players like and need to have definite map flow, and if they don't then they are liable to feel cheated when things don't work out the way they should. For these reasons I do not believe that the jetpack should be brought back in its current form. The only way I think it would be fine is if it worked as a double or triple jump type feature so as not to grossly effect map flow. There was a sword on countdown!? Wow... I should start paying more attention. Anyway... back on topic. I don't care whether or not jetpack is in. If there are gonna be noobs with it, let them have their fun... just snipe em down afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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