Spartan 4 Combat Effectiveness?

[WonderWombat]

Ah, yes, now i remember.

It's logic. Better Mjolnir, better soldier, no need anymore to train them since 6 years old.

But then, all the magic behind the Spartans is vanquished.

No more Super-Soldiers almost immortals.

No more "Walking tank" imposing guys.

Sigh.

No they still genetically enhance them. They were planning on doing this originally (ORION project) but the technology at the time made it impossible to perform on adults, so they had to use children.

 

Now in 2557 the technology is good enough to genetically enhance adults.

[Jord]

No they still genetically enhance them. They were planning on doing this originally (ORION project) but the technology at the time made it impossible to perform on adults, so they had to use children.

 

Now in 2557 the technology is good enough to genetically enhance adults.

 

I wonder what kind of genetic enhancements the Adult volunteers go under?

Hopefully a variation of the Spartan II programme, seeing as in the Spartan III programme, they had to have regular injections to combat the negative effects of some of the enhancements.

[WonderWombat]

I wonder what kind of genetic enhancements the Adult volunteers go under?

Hopefully a variation of the Spartan II programme, seeing as in the Spartan III programme, they had to have regular injections to combat the negative effects of some of the enhancements.

I would guess that it would be improved Spartan III enhancements. If I'm not mistaken Spartan III's could also join at any age and didn't have to have the perfect genes.

 

Though now that I think about it, if the UNSC fixed the augmentation process, then Spartan IV's could be better than Spartan II's. They most likely have the same training as Spartan III's (which is superior to Spartan II's), and similar enhancements to Spartan II's. But we don't know how they augment them.

[SternuS]

I would guess that it would be improved Spartan III enhancements. If I'm not mistaken Spartan III's could also join at any age and didn't have to have the perfect genes.

 

Though now that I think about it, if the UNSC fixed the augmentation process, then Spartan IV's could be better than Spartan II's. They most likely have the same training as Spartan III's (which is superior to Spartan II's), and similar enhancements to Spartan II's. But we don't know how they augment them.

Superior? Yeah, technically it is. But I don't think so.

75 childrens were kidnapped. Only a half survived at the enhancements. Of this half, only 30 were able to fight. Of those 30, only 7 are still alive. in 40 years of war, against the Insurrection and the Covenant, 7 Spartan-IIs are still alive.

 

The Companies of S-III were made of 300 subjects. An entire company was killed on Pegasi, just to destroy a Covenant refinery. Alpha Company was born in 2536. in 16 years of war, we don't know exactly how many S-III are still alive. Few, probably.

 

Now, you can tell me they are cheaper, better and whatever, but so far, 30 S-II were able to drive away thousands and thousands of Covenant, when 300 S-III just destroyed a Cov refinery. I can't really see how they can be better than the S-II.

 

And it'll get worse with the S-IV, that are basically ODSTs with a Mjolnir.

[Jord]

I would guess that it would be improved Spartan III enhancements. If I'm not mistaken Spartan III's could also join at any age and didn't have to have the perfect genes.

 

Though now that I think about it, if the UNSC fixed the augmentation process, then Spartan IV's could be better than Spartan II's. They most likely have the same training as Spartan III's (which is superior to Spartan II's), and similar enhancements to Spartan II's. But we don't know how they augment them.

 

True, from what I remember the candidates of the Spartan III's ranged from 4 - 6/7, and were orphans from the Human-Covenant war if that's what you meant for the first paragraph? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I sometimes have trouble understanding what others are saying).

 

And I guess we'll have to wait and see if Halo: The Thursday War (The sequel to Glasslands) has any more information on the augmentation process of the Spartan IV's. It's due out beginning of October, and it would be a nice addition to the book for a bit more information on the Spartan IV project.

[SternuS]

True, from what I remember the candidates of the Spartan III's ranged from 4 - 6/7, and were orphans from the Human-Covenant war if that's what you meant for the first paragraph? (Correct me if I'm wrong, I sometimes have trouble understanding what others are saying).

 

And I guess we'll have to wait and see if Halo: The Thursday War (The sequel to Glasslands) has any more information on the augmentation process of the Spartan IV's. It's due out beginning of October, and it would be a nice addition to the book for a bit more information on the Spartan IV project.

Nope, he's saying that S-III could join at any age and didn't required perfect genes.

Wich i think it's false, because in Glasslands, in one of the many etic dibates between Mendez and Halsey, Mendez assure that they had asked the children if they wanted revenge and they agreed, and Halsey says that they were children and they couldn't knew what "revenge" means. (in a few words)

So, they are children, like the S-II, but cheaper.

 

Yeah, well, english and americans can buy it in october, i'll need to wait a few months.

[Sierra1117]

 

Nope, he's saying that S-III could join at any age and didn't required perfect genes.

Wich i think it's false, because in Glasslands, in one of the many etic dibates between Mendez and Halsey, Mendez assure that they had asked the children if they wanted revenge and they agreed, and Halsey says that they were children and they couldn't knew what "revenge" means. (in a few words)

So, they are children, like the S-II, but cheaper.

 

Yeah, well, english and americans can buy it in october, i'll need to wait a few months.

And the III's were augmented at a younger age, like how Lucy and Thom were 12 when B-company was lost. II's were augmented at 14, so there's at least a 3 year difference.

[SykoWolf]

Ah, yes, now i remember.

It's logic. Better Mjolnir, better soldier, no need anymore to train them since 6 years old.

But then, all the magic behind the Spartans is vanquished.

No more Super-Soldiers almost immortals.

No more "Walking tank" imposing guys.

Sigh.

Actually they still recieve training AND the gene treatment. So there still tanks, just not merciless tanks.

[WonderWombat]

Superior? Yeah, technically it is. But I don't think so.

75 childrens were kidnapped. Only a half survived at the enhancements. Of this half, only 30 were able to fight. Of those 30, only 7 are still alive. in 40 years of war, against the Insurrection and the Covenant, 7 Spartan-IIs are still alive.

 

The Companies of S-III were made of 300 subjects. An entire company was killed on Pegasi, just to destroy a Covenant refinery. Alpha Company was born in 2536. in 16 years of war, we don't know exactly how many S-III are still alive. Few, probably.

 

Now, you can tell me they are cheaper, better and whatever, but so far, 30 S-II were able to drive away thousands and thousands of Covenant, when 300 S-III just destroyed a Cov refinery. I can't really see how they can be better than the S-II.

 

And it'll get worse with the S-IV, that are basically ODSTs with a Mjolnir.

In glasslands someone (either Halsey or a Spartan II) says the Spartan III's would have beaten them in hand to hand combat.

 

Also addressing the thing about spartan III's age. Some of them are 14 during 2552 while others are in their late 20's. Ao that is more than a 10 year difference.

[The Director]

In glasslands someone (either Halsey or a Spartan II) says the Spartan III's would have beaten them in hand to hand combat.

 

Also addressing the thing about spartan III's age. Some of them are 14 during 2552 while others are in their late 20's. Ao that is more than a 10 year difference.

It's funny because I don't remember that quote (AT ALL) and seem to remember a SIII getting his butt handed to him by Kelly in Ghost's of Onyx. And the oldest of the SIII's is Tom and Lucy. Tom was born in 2533, which in 2552 would make him 19 years old. Lucy was also born in 2533.

 

Tom and Lucy were part of the SIII Beta Company, and were the only survivors of it. Alpha company (the previous SIII company) had no survivors after Operation Prometheus and the Fall of Reach, (except MAYBE Jun, but that's doubtful), which makes them the oldest SIII's.

[SykoWolf]

Director should be the fact checker for this whole site

 

But yeah, the Spartan 2's could kick Spartan 3's butts anyday. They have superior training and experience

[WonderWombat]

It's funny because I don't remember that quote (AT ALL) and seem to remember a SIII getting his butt handed to him by Kelly in Ghost's of Onyx. And the oldest of the SIII's is Tom and Lucy. Tom was born in 2533, which in 2552 would make him 19 years old. Lucy was also born in 2533.

 

Tom and Lucy were part of the SIII Beta Company, and were the only survivors of it. Alpha company (the previous SIII company) had no survivors after Operation Prometheus and the Fall of Reach, (except MAYBE Jun, but that's doubtful), which makes them the oldest SIII's.

If I had glasslands I might look for it, but I don't own the book.

 

But I remember it because I was sort of surprised to hear it. It may have been during one of those arguments between Mendez and Halsey, and Halsey thought to herself that Spartan III's were physically superior but didn't want to mention it to Mendez. Or alternatively Mendez mentioned it to make her feel bad.

[The Director]

If I had glasslands I might look for it, but I don't own the book.

 

But I remember it because I was sort of surprised to hear it. It may have been during one of those arguments between Mendez and Halsey, and Halsey thought to herself that Spartan III's were physically superior but didn't want to mention it to Mendez. Or alternatively Mendez mentioned it to make her feel bad.

That didn't happen either. There were some things that they didn't want to say, but it wasn't about Spartan strength and endurance. It was more about their mental health (Kurt made the new SIII class have their minds slightly damaged in the hopes of increasing their survival rate. The end result was that they had to take medication to remain normal, as it were).

 

They couldn't make them stronger than the SII's anyway because the enhancements would kill nearly all of them. They had to "water down" (NOT the correct term, but it gets the point across) the enhancements to make it to where they could be accepted by those that weren't "genetically superior". It would be a waste of valuable resources to give them more enhancements than the SII's as well, as the SIII's were literally meant for suicide missions. Disposable infantry does not get the big guns. Also note that SPI armor is a fair amount cheaper and easier to mass produce than MJOLNIR Assault Armor.

 

There was a joke told by one of the Spartan II's (if I recall) just after

Lucy punched out Dr. Halsey

but that's all it was. A joke.

[WonderWombat]

snip

Well I still remember seeing something of the sort in the book, so until I re read it or something I'm going to assume it is in there.

 

And about augmentation. The Spartan III augmentations weren't inferior to the Spartan II's. There were advances in the process that allowed for it to be used on a wider variety of people (that's why it is a drug instead of a surgical procedure for SIIIs). Then in the special case for gamma company they had a superior augmentation to the SII's as Kurt used illegal drugs. Kurt also said Gamma company were the most superior spartans, and he was a Spartan II, so I would hope he knows what he is talking about.

 

So in theory I'd say Spartan III's are superior (at least gamma company) to Spartan II's. But what gives Spartan II's the edge is their combat experience and their armor.

[SternuS]

Well I still remember seeing something of the sort in the book, so until I re read it or something I'm going to assume it is in there.

 

And about augmentation. The Spartan III augmentations weren't inferior to the Spartan II's. There were advances in the process that allowed for it to be used on a wider variety of people (that's why it is a drug instead of a surgical procedure for SIIIs). Then in the special case for gamma company they had a superior augmentation to the SII's as Kurt used illegal drugs. Kurt also said Gamma company were the most superior spartans, and he was a Spartan II, so I would hope he knows what he is talking about.

 

So in theory I'd say Spartan III's are superior (at least gamma company) to Spartan II's. But what gives Spartan II's the edge is their combat experience and their armor.

Basically, the difference between augmentations in S-II and S-III is this: Carbide Ceramic Ossification.

That, and something else i don't remember.

Did you ever wonder why S-III are not as tall as S-II? Because of that. They don't have Ceramic ossification. Or, if they have it, it is in a lower quantity.

Kurt said that the Gamma Company was the most superior Spartans III. There are no Spartans superior in strenght, efficiency and combat experience than the Second Generation.

"they would be cheaper to arm, train, and produce; being chosen from a wider pool of candidates, they would also be more numerous than their SPARTAN-II predecessors. They would rely on superior battle tactics, teamwork and sheer numbers rather than advanced technology, special augumentation, and equipment, to achieve their effectiveness." Halo Nation.

 

Oh, and i can assure you, in Glasslands no one said that. I know this, because i've finished it yesterday. (as i said, i have to wait three months for the italian version to come, so...)

[The Director]

Well I still remember seeing something of the sort in the book, so until I re read it or something I'm going to assume it is in there.

 

And about augmentation. The Spartan III augmentations weren't inferior to the Spartan II's. There were advances in the process that allowed for it to be used on a wider variety of people (that's why it is a drug instead of a surgical procedure for SIIIs). Then in the special case for gamma company they had a superior augmentation to the SII's as Kurt used illegal drugs. Kurt also said Gamma company were the most superior spartans, and he was a Spartan II, so I would hope he knows what he is talking about.

 

So in theory I'd say Spartan III's are superior (at least gamma company) to Spartan II's. But what gives Spartan II's the edge is their combat experience and their armor.

Ah, Kurt. That means you are now referencing Ghost's of Onyx. Which I actually just finished reading five minutes ago. Also, are you "assuming" it's in there, or are you making things up as you go along?

 

The illegal drugs that Kurt used on the Spartan III's increases their aggression. To the point that without constant medication, they become a danger to themselves and others. He basically turned them into a weaker version of a Jiralhanae, except that Jiralhanae can generally control their temperaments without medication and aren't prone to losing their marbles, as it were, outside of combat.

 

Kurt was not your typical SII. He was a SII that sometimes let his emotions get the better of him. The reason he chose to use these illegal chemicals on Gamma team is because aside from Tom and Lucy, there were no survivors of previous SIII companies, and this took it's toll on him.

 

Your statement that Kurt said that Gamma company were the most superior Spartans is false. He said that they were the most superior Spartans he had ever trained (i.e. SIII's).

 

As for the augmentations, while it is true that the books say nothing about whether the enhancements are better or worse than each other (except, of course, for the "wash-outs" that the SII enhancements had), let's propose a little contest to see which is stronger.

 

1. The ratio for the surviving members of both Spartan II's and Spartan III's. Out of 30 or so SII's, a handful are left. Out of 330 (for Gamma Company alone, mind you) SIII's, again, only a handful are left. The Spartan II's get the higher k/d ratio on this one.

 

2. Damage to the covenant/insurrectionists. While the SIII's completed some high value missions, so did the SII's. The SIII's generally did not survive the missions they undertook, however. One SII, on the other hand, decimated the entire Covenant chain of command and effectively ended the war. So, SII's win this one as well.

 

3. Mental Stability. For this test, we will exclude Gamma Company as they have had their minds altered to the point where mental stability will eventually become a problem for them as they age. The SIII's watched hundreds of their classmates die, and possibly thousands of civilians die. One of the two surviving Spartans from these missions was rendered mute by this. The SII's on the other hand, saw several billion civilians die, as well as suffered the trauma of losing about half of their numbers during the enhancements stage of their training. They've also watched fellow SII's die in rather nasty ways, watched civilians be torn apart (and even eaten), and watched entire planets get glassed. Throughout all of this, they maintained their sanity. SII's win this round as well.

 

4. Every time a SIII has come up against an SII in unarmed combat, the SII was victorious. The two victorious SII's were Kurt and Kelly.

 

Now, understand that I am in no way bashing the SIII's, however their combat record leaves something to be desired. From all of the battles that the SII's have won (against not only the covenant, but also the insurrectionists), for someone to tell me that a group of Spartans that were slaughtered by the hundreds for every mission they managed to complete is like telling me that Gold is stronger than Diamond.

[WonderWombat]

snip

I just noticed that I forgot to add a sentence to the last thing.

 

That was someone else's thoughts about it basically summed up from Bungie. I've never read ghosts of onyx.

 

And I'm assuming the thing is in Glasslands as I have no idea where else I would have seen it. I don't really follow Halo too much besides a few things from Halo 4.

 

So I'm still going to say that without armor theoretically the Spartan III's would win in a fight as I remember somwhere in glasslands this is stated.

 

Also it sounds like you think I am saying that the Spartan III's would just wreck the Spartan II's, but I am just saying they may be tougher because of something that a mediocre author wrote about. I've seen a couple other times where people don't like Glasslands because the author messes some things up.

[SykoWolf]

 

3. Mental Stability. For this test, we will exclude Gamma Company as they have had their minds altered to the point where mental stability will eventually become a problem for them as they age. The SIII's watched hundreds of their classmates die, and possibly thousands of civilians die. One of the two surviving Spartans from these missions was rendered mute by this. The SII's on the other hand, saw several billion civilians die, as well as suffered the trauma of losing about half of their numbers during the enhancements stage of their training. They've also watched fellow SII's die in rather nasty ways, watched civilians be torn apart (and even eaten), and watched entire planets get glassed. Throughout all of this, they maintained their sanity. SII's win this round as well.

 

 

I agree completely with this. Because if you view the MC as a test subject, he went through the horror of the Flood seeing hundreds being turned into horrible terrifying creatures, and while he was "scared" by it, he stood strong and fought his way thorugh to victory.

[SternuS]

I just noticed that I forgot to add a sentence to the last thing.

 

That was someone else's thoughts about it basically summed up from Bungie. I've never read ghosts of onyx.

 

And I'm assuming the thing is in Glasslands as I have no idea where else I would have seen it. I don't really follow Halo too much besides a few things from Halo 4.

 

So I'm still going to say that without armor theoretically the Spartan III's would win in a fight as I remember somwhere in glasslands this is stated.

 

Also it sounds like you think I am saying that the Spartan III's would just wreck the Spartan II's, but I am just saying they may be tougher because of something that a mediocre author wrote about. I've seen a couple other times where people don't like Glasslands because the author messes some things up.

 

I can assure you, if you read my posts, that no one said it. NO ONE. Nor the Author, nor Halsey, nor Mendez, nor any S-II or S-III.

[SykoWolf]

I just noticed that I forgot to add a sentence to the last thing.

 

That was someone else's thoughts about it basically summed up from Bungie. I've never read ghosts of onyx.

 

And I'm assuming the thing is in Glasslands as I have no idea where else I would have seen it. I don't really follow Halo too much besides a few things from Halo 4.

 

So I'm still going to say that without armor theoretically the Spartan III's would win in a fight as I remember somwhere in glasslands this is stated.

 

Also it sounds like you think I am saying that the Spartan III's would just wreck the Spartan II's, but I am just saying they may be tougher because of something that a mediocre author wrote about. I've seen a couple other times where people don't like Glasslands because the author messes some things up.

Ive never read any quote about Spartan 3's being able to take down Spartan 2's with or without armour O.o

Specifically due to the fact that Spartan 2's recieved more attention then Spartan 3's, you have to remember that Spartan 3's were used on suicide missions, so they werent trained to be the absolute best. Whereas Spartan 2's were created to turn the tide of the war in small groups without much loss.