The very essence of competitive Halo, gone?

[Destroyaaa]

My question is why after the total disaster of Halo Reach's system do they decide to do something that sounds a lot like CoD? Clearly the best system so far was Halo 2's and they are shying away from it. Frankie said they wont do 1-50 in playlists because of derankers and boosters and cheaters. Yet simply look at the sales of the Halo Franchise. Halo 2 and 3 sold much more than Halo Reach, seemingly due to its unique play style and competitive ranking system. Halo Reach took elements of other games and used a non competitive ranking system. People played halo 2 and 3 so much because of the competitive aspect of trying to get a 50 in the playlists and without that I and many others see no point of calling out and giving 100% every game to win because at the end of the game all you get is credits win or lose. Thats the direction of video games these days, they are all trying to appeal to noobs. Halo stuck to its competitive nature through halo 3 and eventually gave in.

 

More information needs to come out about the ranking system very soon. Halo pro Ninja made a very good video about this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohMtRr-ywh0 and I completely agree with his points. I cannot continue to argue about this, because it truly is disappointing the direction this franchise, my favorite franchise, is headed.

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

Trust me, the ranking system is gonna be good. Don't assume it's bad.

[SatanicBagels]

Either way, Professional Gaming is considered a sport just as Nascar or Football is. But it isn't a physical sport. Sports aren't all physical, they are just competitive games. Every one of them. Even war could be considered a sport were it not so brutal. Which is why we have Airsoft.

 

Well they actually aren't by definition. A sport requires physical exertion.

 

 

Skill has taken a new meaning in video games these days. The norm is a CoD based system that offers fun customization options at the expense of having to include elements of chance and luck in it. Like it or not most video games are expanding to emulate this model and Halo is no different. So no I don't see Halo 4 having the same competitive play-style as Halo 2 and maybe Halo 3.

 

To say it will be bad is pretty unrelated however. I imagine that people looking for really competitive gameplay will have to look at MLG, SWAT, Snipers, and DMR/BR playlists.

[Twinreaper]

Like I.stated before, making the game competative has nothing to do with rank.systems or noobs or whatever. Aside.from gaining, being competative boils down to you wanting to win. Back in my days of Doom 1 and Heretic, there were no.ranks, no.score system no nothing. Yet online play was competative as hell. If you want to blame something for.competative things these days, look no further than MLG and companies like them.

 

You think they really care at all if have a good time or have good opponents to play? No...they are just another greedy bunch of arses looking to.exploit and capitalize on something you like.

 

Competition stems from individuals looking to prove something. Those said people dont need others to provide that for them. If Halo 4 is to be competative, then that will alone be decided by the participants.

 

PS...I didnt edit my post. I dont know who did.

[Ac7 oN ImPuLs3]

I would like to think that 343 has mad the perfect ranking system but we all know nothing is perfect. I do have a lot of confidence in them and all anyone can do is hope for the best.

[Jaculah]

Well they actually aren't by definition. A sport requires physical exertion.

 

A sport does not require physical exertion. Did you not read what I just quoted straight from Wikipedia. Some institutions - like the Olympic Games - admit only sports that require physical exertion, and some institutions do not. This means that anything you can compete in can become a sport if an institution (or an equivalent) choose to admit it as a sport. In our case, Major League Gaming has admitted Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo: Reach as sports in their league.

 

I just read 343's own words which effectively means that in spite of the armor mods, good players would still be good players and bad players would still be bad players. This reduces my worries considerably. And as I read this next statement, my worries disappeared (poof!): "There will also be playlists available that do not utilize loadouts or armor mods."

 

Wow! I am sooooo happy and excited!! My guess is that some of these playlists that do not allow armor mods will be competitive in spirit; like MLG and an equivalent to Reach's Super Slayer.

[Dawn Wolf]

I haven't completely absorbed all the information there is on the 1-50 rank system and the additional specs. That being said, I think that specs is great on all accounts except for the mod concept that will differentiate players during games. Will this not narrow down the skill paradigm even further from Reach?

 

The difference in true skill between players is of course the same as it always have been, where some are beginners and some are professionals, but as the Halo series has progressed, the effective "competence" of all players has become more and more uniform, to the point where in Reach, complete beginners can easily kill you because of concepts like Armor Lock, Jet Pack etcetera. The mod system in Halo 4 seems to be a heavier version of Reach's little mods.

 

My own skill is tantamount to a semi-pro, and I personally have felt all the way from Halo 2 that for every new release in the series I have had less "edge" over my average skilled opponents. Will Halo 4 Specs not demand even less skill to be an effective killer? What are your thoughts on this?

 

(Halo Reach is a complete disaster, where in lack of a ranking system all together, I seldom experience a game where no one quits; also, when searching in Super Slayer by yourself you can get matched with 3 random players who probably rented the game the day before, and matched against a full team of semi-professional gamers.)

 

If you're easily getting killed by average players because of Jet Pack or Armor Lock enough for it to be an issue, you're doing something wrong. Or they're doing something right.

[fzdw11]

A sport does not require physical exertion. Did you not read what I just quoted straight from Wikipedia. Some institutions - like the Olympic Games - admit only sports that require physical exertion, and some institutions do not. This means that anything you can compete in can become a sport if an institution (or an equivalent) choose to admit it as a sport. In our case, Major League Gaming has admitted Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo: Reach as sports in their league.

 

 

The problem is you've used Wikipedia as your source. The true definition of "Sport" based on Oxford Dictionary is completely different. I'm more likely to go with the Oxford definition rather than what Wikipedia says.

 

Sport:

1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment: team sports such as soccer and rugby

 

As for the rest, I'm glad your concerns have disappeared based on some of the information 343 has released.

[Ac7 oN ImPuLs3]

Whence did you derive basis for assuming that my request is to be able to be paired with exact copies of myself and my skill? That would obviously not be possible, and moreover, it would be undesirable. Your "straw man" argument will not work on me, mister.

 

The request is to be paired with other players that demonstrate similar level of skill, like divisions in soccer or whatever competitive sport you can think of. You do not see FIFA seriously thinking of matching Manchester United against my home towns' casual soccer team, do you? And since countless fans of Halo do want to compete, why not have that option but still keep the option for social and casual gaming. Those options were made avaliable in Halo 3 in the form of ranked and social playlists. (To prevent another "straw man" argument I will make it clear that this does not mean I fully support the TrueSkill algorithm)

 

 

 

Why would I not compair professional gaming with the Olympics? What is the difference between competing outside and inside? Why could it not be a potential sport to use your hands and eyes in front of a TV? Why does it have to be physically exhausting to compete in a sport? Games have constraints and set environments, but is not an Olympic arena a set environment, and is not the laws of nature (like gravity) also constraints?

 

These are some questions for you to ponder. All your suggested criteria for competition are false. Straight from Wikipedia: (1) "Competition... arises whenever at least two parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared or which is desired individually but not in sharing and cooperation.", and (2) "Sport is generally recognised as activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olypic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition... However, a number of competitive, but non-physical, activities claim recognition as mind sports. The International Olympic Committee recognises both chess and bridge as bona fide sports.".

 

MLG, which is no different in this regard, has recognized and made avaliable the games Halo 3 and Halo: Reach (and other games aswell) as competitive sports.

This is by far the best thing that I have ever read! I fight with so many people about whether or not Professional Gaming is considered a sport, and I use the exact same points.

 

The problem is you've used Wikipedia as your source. The true definition of "Sport" based on Oxford Dictionary is completely different. I'm more likely to go with the Oxford definition rather than what Wikipedia says.

 

Sport:

1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment: team sports such as soccer and rugby

 

As for the rest, I'm glad your concerns have disappeared based on some of the information 343 has released.

It does not matter if the information comes from Wiki or the Oxford Dictionary about what the definition of sport is. The fact of the matter is that the Olympics defines sports SO MUCH GREATER than both Wiki and the Oxford Dictionary. With that being said, although the Olympics do not specifically recognize Professional Gaming as a "Sport", they do recognize both the GAME of Chess and Bridge as being sports. So is it really unfair to assume that one day eSports will be recognized by the Olympics, considering its massive growth over the past 5 years?

[upton889]

To anyone who says Halo isn't a sport, here it is as definied in the merriam-webster dictionary

Sport (noun): a source of diversion: recreation

 

Halo is indeed a sport and almost every single person that plays it uses it for recreation.

 

Destroyaaa I agree with you 100% and always have. Anybody who didn't enjoy Halo 2 and 3 matchmaking like the other millions of people that did, could never understand. Halo Reach sold very well, but look at the numbers of people playing it today as opposed to the numbers in Halo 2 and 3? It's ridiculous and it's not a coincidence. Halo 2 and 3 in comparison to Halo Reach are by far more competitive, both in the sense of the game itself (armor abilities being the most notable difference) and in the playlist ranks, which gave people motivation to play the game. People actually tried and kept coming back to the game to get better so they could increase their rank.

 

Having said that, I think we should wait until Halo 4 comes out to form any conclusions.

[Twinreaper]

Upton....I can see your point but your post also lead to one factor that negates everything. You stated that Reach was the only title that didnt motivate players? Competitions only motivative factor should be to be better than the opponen. Competition again,.stems.from the need to.prove you are better. A rank or a number only shows that overall over the coarse of time, that you are better. Single matches prove a much a more view of who is better.

 

Which leads again to the aa and noob thing. Just because you did something wrong against an aa user and lost, does not make.them.a noob or show the game.is.broken. It simply shows what actions you took in error that lead to your downfall. Again, admitting fault is something not.commonly shown by competative types. The usual.go.to.defense is, "your a noob", "soooo much lag", "camper!"...and so on.

 

And dont go.telling people that they have to like a previous titles mm to get the whole."competative" thing. I was playing competative games before you were born. I understand cometely the mindset and passion that goes along with it. My view is.simply tbat of a more life.experienced individual who can look back and see things differently. You dont have to agree, its just my opinion.

[Tallgeese]

After reading these posts for a couple days...everyones opinions are insightful and provoking, but they are just that, opinions. Nothing is worng with that, and that is all a part of what makes competition. I am just excited to get Halo 4 and kick some butt...hopefully lol

[upton889]

Twinreaper, I definitely respect your game experience. Nobody denies any of that.

 

Single matches do prove who is better most of the time and you are right when you say competition is about proving you are better than your opponent. But when somebody uses armor lock to be completely impervious to fire, or when jet packers flank from whichever direction, there's no stopping any of that. Certain armor abilities can be countered in certain situations. This is true. But most of the situations you encounter, those abilities can't be countered. It isn't as simple as "If you can't kill the the AA users, that's your fault," like a lot of people say. Using those abilities against somebody does not show who is better. If you can no longer battle against those abilities then the competition is hindered, which makes the game less competitive. The worst halo players can kill just by using certain AA's, not by using their skills to prove who is better.Halo 2 and 3 were indeed more competitive in the ways I used them in. Just my opinion.

[Twinreaper]

Again, that is where I will always fail to see the AA argument. Since I do not venture into the extreme hardcore playlists, I don't see a whole lot of AA abuse or certain situations, so I can defiantly agree and respect that for you. You have seen more things in MM in Reach than I will ever care to see, so again I respect and take that into account now. I just really hope they can knock it out of the park and finally release something that can please both sides to a degree that doesn't require the never ending patches or updates that ultimately cam with Reach. It would be nice to see a game finally play it's coarse without updates, as Halo 2 did. I never considered that minor 1.1 update to change anything really besides campaign things.

[Destroyaaa]

Guys at the end of the day Halo is better off with a ranking system such as Halo 2's. It is better to have boosters and derankers with more people playing the game than having people dissatisfied with the ranking system. Stop pretending it shouldn't matter because even though theoretically you should go all out every game, without a motive a large # of people wont care.

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

Guys at the end of the day Halo is better off with a ranking system such as Halo 2's. It is better to have boosters and derankers with more people playing the game than having people dissatisfied with the ranking system. Stop pretending it shouldn't matter because even though theoretically you should go all out every game, without a motive a large # of people wont care.

Maybe we will get something better. You can't deny that a better system can be made. Though Halo 3's was fun, I think it can be improved.

[Destroyaaa]

Maybe we will get something better. You can't deny that a better system can be made. Though Halo 3's was fun, I think it can be improved.

 

I agree. Halo 3's was fun but it had the most flaws of them all. They just need to get it right this time, basing it off the successes and failures of previous systems.

[Hᴜᴍᴘsᴛʏʟᴇs]

I really hope 343i implements skill into their rankings. The only ranking system that required skill to move up in Reach was Arena, which I still play and enjoy.

 

I definitely do miss showing off a 49 in Lone Wolves, a 50 in SWAT, and a 50 in Slayer in Halo 3 though. Something about the #50 was so appeasing after working so hard to get it.

 

It seems that the term "levelling up" is now reduced to merely earning credits depending on how much you play, ultimately doing away with the term "levelling down"

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

I really hope 343i implements skill into their rankings. The only ranking system that required skill to move up in Reach was Arena, which I still play and enjoy.

 

I definitely do miss showing off a 49 in Lone Wolves, a 50 in SWAT, and a 50 in Slayer in Halo 3 though. Something about the #50 was so appeasing after working so hard to get it.

 

It seems that the term "levelling up" is now reduced to merely earning credits depending on how much you play, ultimately doing away with the term "levelling down"

Agh, I hate Arena due to the crap loadouts. If it was like Team Slayer with ranks, like the beta, I'd play it all day.

[Tallgeese]

I agree Ryu...Arena is a joke...I really hate that the jackpot this weekend is Arena. Thats the only way 343i can get people to play arena now lol

[Gundamatrix]

Yes 1-50 had flaws, but they we're flaws that could have been fixed and the system could have been refined.

[Hᴜᴍᴘsᴛʏʟᴇs]

Agh, I hate Arena due to the crap loadouts. If it was like Team Slayer with ranks, like the beta, I'd play it all day.

 

It seems that either Bungie or 343i, whoever had reigns at the time, realized that jetpack, camo, etc. were OP and ultimately unfair in a game type like Arena, where true skill is recognized and triumphs.

[stompdown]

I'm certain 343 has very intelligent people that can bring solutions to the flaws of 1-50. It was never bad enough to completely remove (like reach).

As a competitive player and huge fan of halo 2-3 online I hope this hardcore ranking system returns. More simply put we want to be PUNiSHED for losing matches that affect our number rank.

[Ryu♥Hayabusa]

It seems that either Bungie or 343i, whoever had reigns at the time, realized that jetpack, camo, etc. were OP and ultimately unfair in a game type like Arena, where true skill is recognized and triumphs.

MLG is for classic skilled souls to compete. Maybe there are no ranks, but Reach's default gameplay should be in Arena. Not the crap that it is.

[Hᴜᴍᴘsᴛʏʟᴇs]

MLG is for classic skilled souls to compete. Maybe there are no ranks, but Reach's default gameplay should be in Arena. Not the crap that it is.

 

Reach's default gameplay IS included in Arena (sans OP AAs that immensely deter the flow of the map).

 

Sprint is obvious.

 

Hologram is a physical optical illusion. It doesn't allow you to become invincible and stall a gunfight (AL), get a quick height advantage and create shortcuts to weapon spawns (jetpack), or become invisible and scramble radar (camo). It merely tricks the player, which rarely occurs in Onyx-ranked Arena games anyways.