Brutes are back.

[Ins4nek1ll4]

well im going to have to say that brutes are returning, in all halos they are the only ones to carry the grav hammer in campaign

[Killer K34]

well im going to have to say that brutes are returning, in all halos they are the only ones to carry the grav hammer in campaign

Gravity hammers were created by the San'Shyuum who did lots of reverse engineering from the forerunner tech they encountered........We are fighting forerunners in halo 4......Forerunner gravity hammer.....

[ςHϵΑƨϵMΩηεTΞr]

ERRMAHGERD!! Forerunner gravity hammer!

[The Director]

The covenant was a faction, and the storm is a different faction, simple as that. Your saying, because they are the same races that they act the same. Its species from the covenant who believe in the same thing as the covenant, but their tactics and whatnot could be extremely different, you cant just say because the same races are in it that they're the covenant. That's like all Muslims are terrorists, which isn't true.

Okay, firstly, REALLY? That's the worst example you could have possibly come up with. One, because it implies that I'm being racist (or that you are racist and are trying to hide it) and two because it doesn't relate to the saying at all. Muslims do not walk like a terrorist and talk like a terrorist, and terrorists don't walk like a Muslim or talk like a Muslim. Terrorists are from MANY different races and religious beliefs (IRA, Czech's, etc.) Muslims and Muslim Extremists don't even have the same beliefs! Muslims believe in peace, Extremists believe in killing everyone who doesn't obey them and their God. VERY different beliefs and interpretations of the same religion.

 

However, this is not the same scenario for The Storm and The Covenant. The Storm was a part of The Covenant (I want to make it clear that I say was because The Covenant seat of power is gone, not because they separated themselves from The Covenant) and use the exact same tactics as they do. How do I know this? Watch the Stage Demo. You will see an Elite with two grunts and two jackals. This is your basic Covenant fire squad. An Elite with some grunts and Jackals was used by The Covenant IN EVERY SINGLE HALO GAME!

 

But let's humor you and say that The Storm uses different tactics. So do the Zealot Class Sangheili. They use stealth while the rest of The Covenant uses brute force, but they were still part of The Covenant. The Ranger Class Sangheili also use different tactics than their comrades, and THEY were still part of The Covenant.

 

And The Covenant WAS NOT a faction. The Covenant was a treaty between various species that opted their cooperation. There were factions IN The Covenant, but The Covenant itself was not a faction. The Storm wasn't even a faction within The Covenant, it was a task force. From what we've been told they don't even know that they no longer are a task force. Which means that in their minds they think they still work for The Covenant.

 

I'll say this again for emphasis, The Storm (from what we've been told) is not rogue in the sense that they broke from The Covenant, but is rogue in the sense that their mission requires long periods of being out of contact with their superiors IN THE COVENANT.

 

Your argument against this is weak for two reasons. Firstly, you tried using a strawman tactic, which is weak in and of itself. Secondly, you ignored parts of what I said and couldn't provide an adequate counter argument for those parts (which is what lead to the strawman tactic). The part you ignored was the fact that the characters in the game actually SAY that they are The Covenant.

[IElitePredatorI]

Well it seems many are saying the stupid ugly monkeys are not it in which is good for me. More focus on ELITES!!!!!

 

[WonderWombat]

You will see an Elite with two grunts and two jackals. This is your basic Covenant fire squad. An Elite with some grunts and Jackals was used by The Covenant IN EVERY SINGLE HALO GAME!

Nope, Halo 3 and Halo ODST used Brutes.

[Wes Stone501]

I think the most classic encounter in all of the halos is having one elite or brute and 5 or 6 grunts and a couple jackals. I swear halo 3 and anything made after you kill more brutes/ elites than grunts.

 

[The Director]

Nope, Halo 3 and Halo ODST used Brutes.

True enough, so for Halo 3 and ODST all you need to do is add "Brute" in there, and it's the exact same thing. Plus, that was after the Great Schism, so they couldn't use Elites at that point even if they wanted to.

 

And actually, this further proves my point. Even without Sangheili, The Covenant tried to use the same tactic over and over. Which means that it was a tactic taught to every covenant leader during their training. Which means that that tactic IS Covenant.

[Sierra1117]

Okay, firstly, REALLY? That's the worst example you could have possibly come up with. One, because it implies that I'm being racist (or that you are racist and are trying to hide it) and two because it doesn't relate to the saying at all. Muslims do not walk like a terrorist and talk like a terrorist, and terrorists don't walk like a Muslim or talk like a Muslim. Terrorists are from MANY different races and religious beliefs (IRA, Czech's, etc.) Muslims and Muslim Extremists don't even have the same beliefs! Muslims believe in peace, Extremists believe in killing everyone who doesn't obey them and their God. VERY different beliefs and interpretations of the same religion.

 

However, this is not the same scenario for The Storm and The Covenant. The Storm was a part of The Covenant (I want to make it clear that I say was because The Covenant seat of power is gone, not because they separated themselves from The Covenant) and use the exact same tactics as they do. How do I know this? Watch the Stage Demo. You will see an Elite with two grunts and two jackals. This is your basic Covenant fire squad. An Elite with some grunts and Jackals was used by The Covenant IN EVERY SINGLE HALO GAME!

 

But let's humor you and say that The Storm uses different tactics. So do the Zealot Class Sangheili. They use stealth while the rest of The Covenant uses brute force, but they were still part of The Covenant. The Ranger Class Sangheili also use different tactics than their comrades, and THEY were still part of The Covenant.

 

And The Covenant WAS NOT a faction. The Covenant was a treaty between various species that opted their cooperation. There were factions IN The Covenant, but The Covenant itself was not a faction. The Storm wasn't even a faction within The Covenant, it was a task force. From what we've been told they don't even know that they no longer are a task force. Which means that in their minds they think they still work for The Covenant.

 

I'll say this again for emphasis, The Storm (from what we've been told) is not rogue in the sense that they broke from The Covenant, but is rogue in the sense that their mission requires long periods of being out of contact with their superiors IN THE COVENANT.

 

Your argument against this is weak for two reasons. Firstly, you tried using a strawman tactic, which is weak in and of itself. Secondly, you ignored parts of what I said and couldn't provide an adequate counter argument for those parts (which is what lead to the strawman tactic). The part you ignored was the fact that the characters in the game actually SAY that they are The Covenant.

First off, the parallel with the Muslims was the closest one I cold find. People now a days, see a Muslim and automatically assume theyre a terrorist, and your saying that because the storm "walks like a duck, and talks like a duck" that they're covenant. And don't tell me that I'm racist or there's no connection here, because I'm Muslim myself and I've had people do the same exact thing to me, so I know from personal experience that there is a huge connection here. And from what we've heard, the storm did separate themselves from the covenant, which it says right here, http://www.examiner.com/article/halo-4-s-storm-covenant-faction-officially-revealed . So that renders everything you just said about them believing themselves to be a task force to be false. They broke away from the covenant treaty and still believe in the great journey. That's it, they have the same beliefs and happen to be the same species. That's all we know right now

[The Director]

First off, the parallel with the Muslims was the closest one I cold find. People now a days, see a Muslim and automatically assume theyre a terrorist, and your saying that because the storm "walks like a duck, and talks like a duck" that they're covenant. And don't tell me that I'm racist or there's no connection here, because I'm Muslim myself and I've had people do the same exact thing to me, so I know from personal experience that there is a huge connection here. And from what we've heard, the storm did separate themselves from the covenant, which it says right here, http://www.examiner....cially-revealed . So that renders everything you just said about them believing themselves to be a task force to be false. They broke away from the covenant treaty and still believe in the great journey. That's it, they have the same beliefs and happen to be the same species. That's all we know right now

And bam. You have proven my point.

The ‘Storm’ faction in Halo 4 is a group of Covenant that have broken up with the main body of the newly peaceful Covenant, carrying their Prophets’ ideology and religion with them.

 

So you see? They ARE The Covenant. They are more The Covenant than the "newly peaceful" Covenant is.

 

I may have been wrong about my theory on who they were, but I wasn't wrong in the fact that they are Covenant. You can slap a new name on an old car, but it's still the same car it was.

 

So here's what we know right now:

1. They act the exact same as the covenant in Halo CE (including looking for a super weapon on a forerunner relic).

2. They are made up of the same species and have the same beliefs as the covenant from Halo CE.

3. The character's in the game call them the covenant (multiple times in the little stage demo we saw).

 

Which brings me back to my original point. Frankie said that there wouldn't be Covenant. But, here we have an enemy that IS the covenant that we have all come to despise, with a new name.

[Sierra1117]

Just because they used to be part of something, doesnt mean they will always be prt of that group. They used to be part of the covenant, but they left them, so now they are the storm. Chief and Cortana only call them covenant because they don't know about the storm yet. They aren't covenant any more

[The Director]

Just because they used to be part of something, doesnt mean they will always be prt of that group. They used to be part of the covenant, but they left them, so now they are the storm. Chief and Cortana only call them covenant because they don't know about the storm yet. They aren't covenant any more

You aren't listening -.- What do we define The Covenant as? A group of different species bent on finding and using the Halo rings (and other forerunner tech) and eradicating human life. The Storm seems to match that definition to a T.

 

The only thing that has changed about them is their appearance and name. If you yourself got plastic surgery and changed your name, you would still be the same person you were before. The Storm is the "New" Covenant.

[Sierra1117]

You aren't listening -.- What do we define The Covenant as? A group of different species bent on finding and using the Halo rings (and other forerunner tech) and eradicating human life. The Storm seems to match that definition to a T.

 

The only thing that has changed about them is their appearance and name. If you yourself got plastic surgery and changed your name, you would still be the same person you were before. The Storm is the "New" Covenant.

Just because they match that definition, doesn't mean theyre the same thing. The covenant is a group bonded by a treaty. The storm is a group bonded by beliefs. They're different

[The Director]

Just because they match that definition, doesn't mean theyre the same thing. The covenant is a group bonded by a treaty. The storm is a group bonded by beliefs. They're different

How are they different? You keep saying they are different, but I don't see any difference between the two groups except for appearances and name.

 

And the treaty binding the covenant was based on belief, which is why the covenant did EVERYTHING the San 'Shyuum told them to. It wasn't because they were bound by law, it was because they believed in the Prophets and the great journey.

[Sierra1117]

But this is a completely different group, they are very much alike, but they aren't the same faction as your saying

[WonderWombat]

How are they different? You keep saying they are different, but I don't see any difference between the two groups except for appearances and name.

 

And the treaty binding the covenant was based on belief, which is why the covenant did EVERYTHING the San 'Shyuum told them to. It wasn't because they were bound by law, it was because they believed in the Prophets and the great journey.

But this is a completely different group, they are very much alike, but they aren't the same faction as your saying

It will depend on the group, not our opinions. If they insist on calling themselves Storm and recognizing that they are different while calling the "peaceful" Covenant heretics, then they will be different.

 

If they think they are still the Covenant, then they will be considered the Covenant.

[Sierra1117]

 

It will depend on the group, not our opinions. If they insist on calling themselves Storm and recognizing that they are different while calling the "peaceful" Covenant heretics, then they will be different.

 

If they think they are still the Covenant, then they will be considered the Covenant.

The fact that they separated themselves from the covenant is proof enough that they want to differentiate themselves

[WonderWombat]

The fact that they separated themselves from the covenant is proof enough that they want to differentiate themselves

That's what I'm also thinking.

 

But I could see them saying something like "We are the true Covenant" which is what I was getting at.

[Sierra1117]

That's what I'm also thinking.

 

But I could see them saying something like "We are the true Covenant" which is what I was getting at.

Perhaps, but they are not the covenant thats peaceful after the war

[The Director]

That's what I'm also thinking.

 

But I could see them saying something like "We are the true Covenant" which is what I was getting at.

^ This is what I've been trying to say all along.

 

The Covenant that we are at peace with isn't really the Covenant anymore. Not the way we know it. We know the covenant as Xenocidal fanatics, which is what the storm is. That's what I've been trying to say.

[Sierra1117]

But your saying that because the storm matches a certain definition that they're the covenant. If the now covenant is now peaceful, then the covenant doesn't exist. These guys can't just say they're the same thing unless they're like "we're the true covenant"

[Fail Master]

@Frank o Conner y u no tell us da truths? y u no put brutes in halo 4? y u no like brutes? Y U RASIST TO BRUTES?

[WonderWombat]

@Frank o Conner y u no tell us da truths? y u no put brutes in halo 4? y u no like brutes? Y U RASIST TO BRUTES?

Technically it would be speciest I guess. Racist would imply that Brutes are human.

[Sierra1117]

Technically it would be speciest I guess. Racist would imply that Brutes are human.

Well like the human race, there's the brute race, so yes he can be consider racist

[A_L00s3_Scr3w]

-Or I could not tell the mods what to do, which would be wise on my end-