What The Halo Community Needs in a Ranking System - Please let me know what you think!

[Force 410]

Halo 4 definitely needs a ranking system that's based on skill rather than experience like reach. Reach was a joke to just about everyone, and this is one of the MAIN reasons why (of course unbalanced AAs, etc.). My point is, unlike reach, H4 or subsequent games need a ranking system that people care about. You can argue, "it's just a number" but then why would so many people care about it? I mean ultimately, you can always say, "it's just a game" or "it's just entertainment." Just like most forms of entertainment, the purpose of it is to be ENTERTAINING, not practical.

 

Now that that moot point (or at least what should be one) is out of the way, the ranking system with a number there is important to indicate your skill level and match you up with others of that skill level - the number allowing you to see each person's rank without necessarily having to go through each of their KDRs. Frank O'Connor states that this can increase boosting. Personally, I never had a MAJOR problem with people boosting in H2, and very little in H3. Granted, I never exceeeded level 40 because my Internet connection was so bad (but I did have a 40!). Regardless, the ranking system gave something for players to PLAY FOR! ...To reach the highest rank and say, "hey look, I did very well at something I enjoy a heckuva lot!" (but not so much in those words, more like "F*** YEAH!"). Anyway, my point is, Reach didn't give the incentive, because experience does not equal skill, and people want to be rewarded for their skill. Reach rewarded players for boosting more so IMO because you could just put the controller down and come back a little later, and hey look! YOU'VE GOT CREDITS! That burst my bubble more than anything else. And what did Bungie do as one of their last acts - HEY! Let's ban/reset those who are doing it in FIREFIGHT! A playlst that doesn't ACTUALLY effect anyone else as far as PVP matchmaking goes.... And TO THIS DAY I still play with people who do it on my team in PVP matchmaking, or constantly betray, or constantly suicide, or just leave the game. So if I'm not with a full team, I am having a poor experience. And let's face it, if 343i cared about this at all, you wouldn't see it nearly as much (which is almost EVERY game for me - no exaggeration). People don't care and can clearly get away with doing this.

 

So Frank O'Connor, I'm respectfully calling you out for flipping your lid on a ranking system and boosting, because if this (Reach) isn't a form of boosting then I don't know what is... unlesss... Unless that is that you actually recognize that Reach doesn't involve ranking players by skill at all, let alone matching them up! Then my friend, then it would not be boosting but rather taking advantage of the system for credits that ultimately represent nothing! I would really love to hear how Reach has any competitive aspect and how it promotes this competition. That is where Reach's philosophy on matchmaking falls drastically short - that credits to buy stupid stuff matters to competitive PVP Halo players. We want a ranking system back - one that keeps track of your skills and not one that rewards you for simply playing the game.

 

Nowhere is it blatantly stated thus far for Halo 4 that the ranked system will be based on player skill whatsoever. Frank O'Connor pitched around the question by stating that players wlll be able to track their own skill and will be matched up according to their individual skill - claims also made for Reach before its release. So I want to hear it from the mouth of Frankie O'Connor himself, as blatantly as possible, stating what the actual multiplayer matchmaking will be like in H4 with regards to a ranking system and player skill. Because what I am looking for, and what almost all competitive Halo players are looking for, is a ranked system back again that measures your skill while allowing others to see your rank/level in order to determine who they're up against.

 

As far as how the ranking system would work, it would be nice to incorporate teamwork and winning games into it, but I think first and foremost individual skill needs to be a major part. Because silly things can happen such as teammates leaving games, betraying... oh wait, this list is getting similar to my last one. With that rank/level number there to worry about, and seeing that people certainly cared about it in H2-3, people would not be so keen on deranking by committing those acts (acts that should have an automatic level drop IMO if you leave a game intentionally, and have a level drop after 3 intentional suicides/betrayals per game - or something to that harsh nature). And hey, if Bungie can monitor people for not playing in firefight, I don't see why things like these can't be monitored too!

 

To me this is simple to implement as well to please both competitive players and casuals. Just have a ranked playlist and an unranked playlist that everything falls under (i.e. team slayer, team skirmish, team snipers, etc...). The ranked would have only competitive playlists and be very balanced as far as armor abilities, equipment and such (maybe none of it even), whereas the other would have everything in it (as appropriated by 343i per gametype) and could be where 343i determines what could work in competitive ranked play (sort of like testing different things out to see what's balanced enough for ranked play). Both playlists could have, for example, Team Slayer (with ranked being more balanced for competitive play), but only the unranked would have things like Action Sack. So I don't think that's too hard or too much to ask for.

 

So lastly (and I apologize for the long post but I miss ranks too much and am very passionate with this topic and Halo), I am calling for Frank O'Connor to announce or respond to me with what things wlll be like for H4 mulitplayer matchmaking regarding ranks and their basis (skill based vs experience based) in the most blatant manner possible without spoiling everything. For exmaple, just saying how the system works would suffice - like how it determines rank and sorts out players to play with each other. I would like to hear thoughts back, especially from 343i regarding my ideas for playlists and how the ranking system should be. To me it's simple and flexible enough for 343i to do a lot with it! And Frank O'Connor, I respect you as a Halo fan and appreciate the hard work and dedication to the Halo community, I just can't agree with you on a ranking system. Please don't take this as a personal attack, because I'm sure you're a great guy and all, but I'm just very passionate about this topic. So please, I implore you to make these details known and interact with the community here that is screaming for a ranking system that reminds us of the fun we had in H2 and H3....oh and by the way, while you're at it..........

 

CLANS

 

~ Force 410

[ZΞRΘ]

Interesting view, very long post. I'm pretty sure 343/Microsoft have a place for you to submit suggestions for them to be reviewed by professionals. I'm confident in the fact that whatever ranking system they implement in Halo 4 it will work its own magic for the specific title. At this point there is really no changing it, as I'm sure the game is finished, and other then some beta testing; is just market prepping for the soon to be global release.

[Tallgeese]

Meh...ranks are just a symbol or number next to your name and dont mean much anymore...too many people boost, cheat, or pay for their ranks. If I am having fun, I could care less if there are ranks or not

[Hᴜᴍᴘsᴛʏʟᴇs]

This was, is and always will be an ongoing argument that no one can answer because it pertains to opinions and preferences. Talk about beating a dead horse.

[Force 410]

Interesting view, very long post. I'm pretty sure 343/Microsoft have a place for you to submit suggestions for them to be reviewed by professionals. I'm confident in the fact that whatever ranking system they implement in Halo 4 it will work its own magic for the specific title. At this point there is really no changing it, as I'm sure the game is finished, and other then some beta testing; is just market prepping for the soon to be global release.

 

I appreciate the input! Yeah, I know that there will be no chance of this in Halo 4 if its not already in it. Just throwing it out there for teh community and hopefully for future Halo games!

 

This was, is and always will be an ongoing argument that no one can answer because it pertains to opinions and preferences. Talk about beating a dead horse.

 

I hear ya for sure, but I think it's relevant until they do something to address this large portion of the community - that is implementing SOMETHING that appeases to them (myself included) in the same or a very similar way.

 

Interesting view, very long post. I'm pretty sure 343/Microsoft have a place for you to submit suggestions for them to be reviewed by professionals. I'm confident in the fact that whatever ranking system they implement in Halo 4 it will work its own magic for the specific title. At this point there is really no changing it, as I'm sure the game is finished, and other then some beta testing; is just market prepping for the soon to be global release.

 

Also, I'd like to find out where I could suggest this. I'd obviously revise it and make it more concise... let me know if you'd like, otherwise I'll certainly search around when I have the time!

[upton889]

Force 410, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this issue and I've said the same things and more many times on the forums (just in shorter form, lol). Reach's matchmaking and overall gameplay were massive failures. Everybody is thrown in at random on every playlist regardless of skill or time played. Just look at the numbers of the people that played Halo Reach long after its release compared to the numbers of Halo 2 and Halo 3 players long after their releases. Reach pales in comparison and numbers don't lie. The old ranking systems keep everybody motivated to keep playing. Almost anybody that played Halo 2 and/or 3 misses the excitement of the old ranking system. Almost anybody that seldom played Halo 2 and 3, or not at all, could never understand.

 

Even though Frank O Connor may have statistics on boosting I disagree with him as well, based on an abundance of my own personal experience with Halo 2 and 3. I hardly ever saw boosting, and even if I did it wasn't a problem for me during battles.

[Force 410]

Force 410, I agree with you wholeheartedly on this issue and I've said the same things and more many times on the forums (just in shorter form, lol). Reach's matchmaking and overall gameplay were massive failures. Everybody is thrown in at random on every playlist regardless of skill or time played. Just look at the numbers of the people that played Halo Reach long after its release compared to the numbers of Halo 2 and Halo 3 players long after their releases. Reach pales in comparison and numbers don't lie. The old ranking systems keep everybody motivated to keep playing. Almost anybody that played Halo 2 and/or 3 misses the excitement of the old ranking system. Almost anybody that seldom played Halo 2 and 3, or not at all, could never understand.

 

Even though Frank O Connor may have statistics on boosting I disagree with him as well, based on an abundance of my own personal experience with Halo 2 and 3. I hardly ever saw boosting, and even if I did it wasn't a problem for me during battles.

 

DUDE! Thank you! I appreciate the reply and feedback! I hear ya man! And especially that people who haven't played 2 & 3 don't get it. Especially 2 IMO. I feel like H2 multiplayer revolutionized FPS multiplayer and most of my fondest Halo memories come from it.

 

Just to address objective gametypes real quick and to prevent kdr padding in these (and cuz I didn't make it clear in my mini-essay there) here's what I think:

 

"So as far as stats reflecting playing as a team goes, I think, as I said in my post, it's important to incorporate it, but don't make it what the entirely of the rank takes into consideration and reflects though. I have played objective games on Reach where teams just tool on our team to pad their kdr, regardless of the win and carrying out the objective. I think for objective games, there should be a greater emphasis on completing the objective to affect your rank, and a slightly diminished one on kdr. They could integrate this into gametypes I feel pretty easily. That way, objective based players (like myself to be quite honest! - ask any of my long time xbl friends) get rewarded for playing the game the way it's meant to be in those gametypes. I appreciate the input though because I didn't make it clear enough in my mini-essay there, " <----- This was taken from another post I replied on; I was to lazy to edit it, haha - sorry.

 

And just to make it clear and not sound so complicated: In summary I believe the ranking system should incorporate KDR and the gametype being played, and thus, reflect the contributions made to that gametype. I'm not going to breakdown percentages or numbers here because that's something I'd want to leave to the discretion of 343i; I just believe the basis for these ranks can appease the entire community in a satisfying way quite simply and without much compication - at least in concept.

[The Director]

Even though Frank O Connor may have statistics on boosting I disagree with him as well, based on an abundance of my own personal experience with Halo 2 and 3. I hardly ever saw boosting, and even if I did it wasn't a problem for me during battles.

You were very, very lucky then. In the first week I got H3 I encountered boosters and derankers. I encountered them in such abundance that it put me off of H3 for a while. Then my friend informed me of how much MSP he had made off of deranking and boosting other players, and so I created a couple of other accounts and joined him in it.

 

And my friend and I weren't the only ones who did this as well, and we by far weren't the most successful. Every other couple of games that we were deranking we would run into other derankers and have what was called "Deranker wars", where we could see who could go the most negative to gain the loss. We even had a couple different deranking/boosting clans with 30+ members ask us to join. There was even a pretty well known "derankers code".

 

Point is, quite a few people profited off of Halo 3's broken ranking system, which turned it into a joke. Halo 2's ranking system had it's problems as well, but it was by far better than H3's.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Halo 4 is already finished. These posts will accomplish nothing.

[upton889]

You were very, very lucky then. In the first week I got H3 I encountered boosters and derankers. I encountered them in such abundance that it put me off of H3 for a while. Then my friend informed me of how much MSP he had made off of deranking and boosting other players, and so I created a couple of other accounts and joined him in it.

 

And my friend and I weren't the only ones who did this as well, and we by far weren't the most successful. Every other couple of games that we were deranking we would run into other derankers and have what was called "Deranker wars", where we could see who could go the most negative to gain the loss. We even had a couple different deranking/boosting clans with 30+ members ask us to join. There was even a pretty well known "derankers code".

 

Point is, quite a few people profited off of Halo 3's broken ranking system, which turned it into a joke. Halo 2's ranking system had it's problems as well, but it was by far better than H3's.

 

I hardly ever encountered derankers in Halo 3 or any other cheaters, boosters. etc. Bungie did way better of a job detecting game manipulations (not deranking, but standbying, modding, etc.) in Halo 3, which was the biggest problem for me in Halo 2 (nearly impossible to rank up passed my level 43 because of this). Even with that said I still think Halo 2 has had the best ranking system, but I think Halo 3's has had the best idea: combining experience with playlist ranks. I never saw these deranker wars or anything like that and I don't know a lot who did, so I guess we have two very different perspectives.

 

As far as deranking and boosting in Halo 3 go, any system will have its exploitation points. But as I said, I do know that in Halo 2 and 3 the number of online players long after each game's release blows Reach's numbers out of the water. The ranking system keeps players motivated and wanting to come back to the game.

[Sova]

You know, from my own experiences in H3, the deranking/boosting/cheating wasn't nearly as bad as Frank says it was. I've played halo 3 since its release up to now. Yes you experience derankers every once in awhile but it wasn't EVERY other game that frank gives the impression of. Boosting? Well that's something that people need to get over. Think about it this way. If I wanted to go and make a new account with a new name every month I have my right to make a new account so long as I spend the money. What says in the terms and conditions that I cannot do this and level that account up?

 

The way it's coming across to me is that Frank is just too bad of a player to deal with boosters. Yeah it's annoying sometimes to play someone who isn't a legit 50 because he got "boosted" up with his friends, but if he isn't supposed to be that level he'll get creamed. The other side of that is that the person who is a 50 who wants level up a new account should have every right to do that.

 

The main instigator for boosting in my opinion was adding in experience from the start! The main reason people made new accounts to level them up was because they wanted to have a better win/loss ratio which was visible to everyone else. Makes you look cool because eveyrone will say, OH YOU ONLY HAVE 1 LOSS ON THAT ACCOUNt yOU MUST BE REALLY GOOD (i never cared about that). People wanted to have the best record for a 50. Easiest way to do that was to level up as fast as you could on a new account. Should never made win/loss visible.

 

Another problem with H3 was that it made it easier to level up to a new level than h2. I remember in H2 it took forever to get to the next level because if you lost one game it would bring you down 2-3 wins. Something like that I believe. It wasn't based on Trueskill. Once Microsoft implemented Trueskill everything went down the tube. Boosters as Frank complains started popping up. Especially with the new MSP which gave easier monetary incentive than using ebay or some crap like that.

 

Point is. H2 was by far the best system and although it had its problems (network manipulation, deranking, modding) it wasn't nearly as bad as H3 and Halo Reach. The other thing is that Frank is going about this the wrong way. He's putting personal experience and opinion into the mix without really listening to the devout community that's played the game since H2. Instead he's listening to the people who've only played H3 and Reach. People who don't know what a true game is. My prediction is that Halo 4 won't have anything like H2 or H3 OR reach. It'll probably just be the boring zombie leveling that has taken hold of every game out there... I crave for something fresh and new. Not something that's following mainstream gaming...

[upton889]

I agree with you as well Sova. There will ALWAYS be players who start from the bottom who want a just want a new challenge of ranking up. I never saw derankers much either and I could usually take care of boosters no problem in the game. Halo 2 definitely had the more challenging system, which is why i think it was a better system. It was more indicative of your skill than any other system.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

You know, from my own experiences in H3, the deranking/boosting/cheating wasn't nearly as bad as Frank says it was. I

 

The way it's coming across to me is that Frank is just too bad of a player to deal with boosters.

Frank O'Connor has data to back up what he says. You have nothing. And to say that he was "too bad of a player to deal with boosters" is just a way of dismissing his opinion, because you can't argue with it. He has data. You don't.

[Sova]

Frank O'Connor has data to back up what he says. You have nothing. And to say that he was "too bad of a player to deal with boosters" is just a way of dismissing his opinion, because you can't argue with it. He has data. You don't.

 

You're kidding right? Data? LOL, that's a lame excuse that only trolls use...gtfo because you clearly just want to troll every ranking post.

 

I'd like to see this "data" you claim...you know as well as I do that boosting wasn't a misuse of the ranking system. Quit taking my quotes out of context and actually use your brian for once. I'd like to see an argument from you as opposed to just saying someone has data to back up what they are saying without even referencing this "data" and then going on a rant as to how annoying these ranking posts are. Maybe if 343i shed some light on the system we wouldn't be asking so many questions about it.

 

And yes, I am dismissing his opinion because it's AN OPINION. You can't put opinions into making a game like he is. Just because he doesn't like something doesn't mean that the rest of the people feels that way. That's how terrible games are made. The best games are the ones that are balanced, well thought out, and take the community into consideration.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

You're kidding right? Data? LOL, that's a lame excuse that only trolls use...gtfo because you clearly just want to troll every ranking post.

I'm not trolling ranking posts. I simply pointing out that you have nothing to back up your claims, while Frank O'Connor has pretty much everything he needs to back up his claims. Telling someone to gtfo because you disagree with them is closer to trolling than I anything I've been doing.

[Sova]

You also left out the part where I said boosting wasn't against the terms & conditions. Nothing states that I can't go and make a new account to level up faster. I have every right to do that.

 

And yet, I would love to see this data that you are so happy to mention. Mentioning data without a link is another way of saying, "they said this and that so it must be true and therefore gives me the right to flame people on their observations."

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

You also left out the part where I said boosting wasn't against the terms & conditions. Nothing states that I can't go and make a new account to level up faster. I have every right to do that.

 

And yet, I would love to see this data that you are so happy to mention. Mentioning data without a link is another way of saying, "they said this and that so it must be true and therefore gives me the right to flame people on their observations."

Me flaming you? You're the one who insulted me. And how do you expect me to get the data. Do you expect me to just call Frank up and say "Hey about that data you mentioned..."?

[Sova]

Deranking, if that's his main worry, is an easy fix:

1. A person afk gets booted after the first few mins (solves AFKers)

2. A person committing suicide over and over gets booted for killing themselves too many times (there should be a certain amount like committing suicide 5-10 times in a game equals automatic boot)

3. People who just run around without doing anything are permitted because nothing says they can't play a game without shooting.

 

3 is every gamer's right to play the game they want to play it. If they don't want to shoot any one by all means let them. If you implement steps to curb 1 and 2 then you will see a dramatic drop in derankers because 3 is something that requires effort and most people rather derank without having to do anything.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Deranking, if that's his main worry, is an easy fix:

1. A person afk gets booted after the first few mins (solves AFKers)

2. A person committing suicide over and over gets booted for killing themselves too many times (there should be a certain amount like committing suicide 5-10 times in a game equals automatic boot)

3. People who just run around without doing anything are permitted because nothing says they can't play a game without shooting.

 

3 is every gamer's right to play the game they want to play it. If they don't want to shoot any one by all means let them. If you implement steps to curb 1 and 2 then you will see a dramatic drop in derankers because 3 is something that requires effort and most people rather derank without having to do anything.

Okay that may solve the deranking. But what about the black market for high level accounts?

[Sova]

I called you a troll because this is the second post about rankings you've come into and particularly rip me on my observations without giving a cohesive argument.

 

And I just realized you are 13 years old, why am I arguing with a 13yo kid who's never played halo 2 is beyond me. Which reminds me, you never answered that question i posted the other ranking post about if you played halo 2. Which you clearly didn't because of your age. So thereby, you have no right to argue about a ranking system that I am arguing for if you have never played it. We, the competitive community, like to debate these things because we want what we've been missing for a long time and that's a good reliable ranking system.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

I called you a troll because this is the second post about rankings you've come into and particularly rip me on my observations without giving a cohesive argument.

 

And I just realized you are 13 years old, why am I arguing with a 13yo kid who's never played halo 2 is beyond me. Which reminds me, you never answered that question i posted the other ranking post about if you played halo 2. Which you clearly didn't because of your age. So thereby, you have no right to argue about a ranking system that I am arguing for if you have never played it. We, the competitive community, like to debate these things because we want what we've been missing for a long time and that's a good reliable ranking system.

I have every right to debate with you. I was in fact talking about the Halo 3 system, not the Halo 2 one. and just because i never played a certain game doesn't mean I don't have knowledge of it. I also highly doubt the you represent the competitive community as a whole.

[Sova]

Okay that may solve the deranking. But what about the black market for high level accounts?

 

There's a reason they call it a black market. Its underground and tough to crack down on. Its like any black market industry. You aren't ever going to eliminate it, but what you can do is take the steps necessary to go after those who are selling accounts. You sign up for terms & conditions that prohibit selling any account . What I have not seen is Microsoft actually taking significant legal action to stop this. Until they do there will be boosters who sell accounts.

 

What you don't do, however, is punish the majority of players by taking out a skill-based ranking system because of the actions of a few. That's a downright stupid commercial move on their part. Bungie saw that with Reach and its profitability. More and more people don't buy the games because of the actions bungie took to stop boosting and what not. Take for example the auto-mute. How ridiculous is that tool when most people got muted for all the wrong reasons. We play XBL to meet new people and enjoy playing with them or against them. When you put in a system that punishes people wrongly you destroy that experience.

 

Yes, I got mute banned for simply talking to my teammates and its the most frustrating thing to deal with because people won't unmute because they don't care or they think you are muted for the wrong reason..It destroyed the online experience for me and I can't help but to think it did that for many others as well.

 

The same holds true with boosting/deranking/selling accounts.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

There's a reason they call it a black market. Its underground and tough to crack down on. Its like any black market industry. You aren't ever going to eliminate it, but what you can do is take the steps necessary to go after those who are selling accounts. You sign up for terms & conditions that prohibit selling any account . What I have not seen is Microsoft actually taking significant legal action to stop this. Until they do there will be boosters who sell accounts.

 

What you don't do, however, is punish the majority of players by taking out a skill-based ranking system because of the actions of a few. That's a downright stupid commercial move on their part. Bungie saw that with Reach and its profitability. More and more people don't buy the games because of the actions bungie took to stop boosting and what not. Take for example the auto-mute. How ridiculous is that tool when most people got muted for all the wrong reasons. We play XBL to meet new people and enjoy playing with them or against them. When you put in a system that punishes people wrongly you destroy that experience.

 

Yes, I got mute banned for simply talking to my teammates and its the most frustrating thing to deal with because people won't unmute because they don't care or they think you are muted for the wrong reason..It destroyed the online experience for me and I can't help but to think it did that for many others as well.

 

The same holds true with boosting/deranking/selling accounts.

I can't really argue with you about the black market stuff because my knowledge of that stuff doesn't cover much. But on the thing about the automute and playing on Xbox Live to meet new people and enjoy playing with them... Have you ever talking to that many people on Xbox Live? I have had very little interactions with people on XBL and most of them fall under the category of them cussing me out because I'm beating.

[Sova]

I like to think I represent someone who is a competitive gamer. I've played all the halo games since the launch of the first one. When you play a franchise for that long of a time you notice the subtle and not so subtle differences. You see how it changes the gameplay and motivation to play a game. I'm sure if you asked most people who played Halo 2 they would just rather everything go back to what it was like then. Halo 2 was the golden age of halo and since then they have changed a lot of things. There were both good and bad changes, but one significant change that most people will agree with me on is that there isn't that intensity that Halo 2 specifically put into FPS gaming.

 

I can easily highlight the major changes that have caused this, but I rather not right a 1500 word essay.

 

I can't really argue with you about the black market stuff because my knowledge of that stuff doesn't cover much. But on the thing about the automute and playing on Xbox Live to meet new people and enjoy playing with them... Have you ever talking to that many people on Xbox Live? I have had very little interactions with people on XBL and most of them fall under the category of them cussing me out because I'm beating.

 

Yes I've met plenty of people. You are always going to get those who will curse or rant, that's something I think that actually adds to the competitiveness of gaming. But I have also met people that I continue to play with because they are either good, fun to play with, share the same views, all that stuff that you would normally find in friends in real life.

 

They put notices up that say your online experience will be something you might not expect.

 

Also, the mute ban was something they put in because people are lazy. Personally, I didn't need to have an automute system because I could just as easily press "select" and go to someone's name and mute them, or go to the XBL window and go to their gamertag to do the same. All I'm saying is that their "ideas" and little "implementations" are catering to people who are going to whine no matter what because they are the type of people that always find problems.

 

I would put money on the fact that there would be a lot of people would have sent messages, posted flame topics, or cried to the community if they took out the jetpack, sprint, and the rest of the armour abilities. But there will always be these people. So I say to 343i, why care that much about making these people happy? Why not just make a game that you think would be good and put it out there. It'll make money on the title alone so there's no reason to try all that much harder to make everyone happy. But what you don't do is leave out a crucial part of online gaming (the skill based ranking system).

[killerdude1635]

Unfortunately, this isn't 343i's official forums, so it is highly likely no offical 343i employee saw this well constructed rant, i reccomend reposting here.