Halo 4 Progression System

[Tallgeese]

There is a rumor circling around that they are going to tweak the ranking system post launch to accommodate those of you who are complaining about it.

 

But seriously though, whenever you have a "1 step forward, 1 step back" ranking system (i.e. Halo 3), you are going to get people who derank. Derankers are a problem, because they ruin the game for those who are less experienced. Imagine in your first game of H3 you face a 50 while you are still a 1. You aren't familiar with the controls, you don't know what the equipment does, or that the BR is 4-shot, or where the spawns are and no one on your team does either. But s/he does, and they've deranked just so they can come up against you. Be a pretty crappy game wouldn't it? Your k/d would start off terrible, and if you were stuck in lobbies with other derankers it would stay that way. Even if you managed to get to a 50, people would think you boosted because your k/d would be so bad.

 

The fact is, deny it all you want, but derankers in Halo 3 were just as common as actual players in it's hayday. For those of you who don't know, a deranker is someone who intentionally loses games so that their truskill drops (because it will always say that you managed to get to a 50) to the point where when they play, they come up against people who are inexperienced and can get FAR more kills. And honestly, when I see people begging for it back that's the only reason I can think of for wanting it back.

 

There are alternatives to a 1-50 1 step forward 1 step back ranking system however. For instance, a ranking system that awards you with a bit of truskill and some exp when you win, and absolutely nothing if you lose. So, you can only go forward or stay where you are. Eventually you will begin facing people who are as good as you are (and maybe some who are a bit better so that you can have a challenge). That's the way the truskill system SHOULD work. The only downside here is that you will get to a point where everyone is better than you, and you won't be able to advance further.

 

An alternative is to make it 5 or 10 losses = truskill point loss, and no exp for losing (or 1/10 of the exp you would have gotten). This will make it a real pain in the ass to derank and make it easier to catch and punish derankers. It will also give people the opportunity to continue playing people of similar skill level, while providing an incentive to win.

 

Also, both truskill and exp (in both systems) should be on an individual basis only, so you don't get boosters (which would be hard to do but still possible).

 

Not much else I can say, I fully agree

[xCarnageX9]

In response to The Director how are you going to say this progression system will work over a ranked system while the majority of halo players have stopped playing reach because of what your talking about. This idea that progression will solve booster and deranker problems hasn't worked because now more players get into games with people who are unskilled, decide not play and stand still, run around in circles in the middle of the map or just quit out. And those people far exceed any booster or deranker in h3. ranked is what separated those people who didn't care to win from those that did. Why not have social playlists and competitive playlists with ranks while having the same progression system in both? And if 343 wanted to crack down on em what would it take for them to to look at player submitted video of the people who are cheating, boosting, deranking whatever and ban their A$$ to social games for a long time and keep them away from ranks so people like you and I don't feel the effects as much.

[The Director]

In response to The Director how are you going to say this progression system will work over a ranked system while the majority of halo players have stopped playing reach because of what your talking about. This idea that progression will solve booster and deranker problems hasn't worked because now more players get into games with people who are unskilled, decide not play and stand still, run around in circles in the middle of the map or just quit out. And those people far exceed any booster or deranker in h3. ranked is what separated those people who didn't care to win from those that did. Why not have social playlists and competitive playlists with ranks while having the same progression system in both? And if 343 wanted to crack down on em what would it take for them to to look at player submitted video of the people who are cheating, boosting, deranking whatever and ban their A$$ to social games for a long time and keep them away from ranks so people like you and I don't feel the effects as much.

You should reread my post, it seems you only read about the first half. Also, you are wrong about the amount of derankers/booster in H3 being less than those who just goof around in Reach, according to statistics.

 

And the reason that they did away with the system is because no matter how many people they banned, people kept doing it.

[xCarnageX9]

Statistics? I can see online the differences between how popular a halo game with ranks are compared to one that has no ranks. And I did read your whole post does the first half of what you said not mean anything? Also If you have a system that gives some exp and some truskill if you win and nothing if you lose means your still going to play with the same kids who aren't as skilled because they just play a lot and can level up fast just based on that and not skill. Go look at all the inheritors and mythics in reach that get beat so easily just because they have a lot of play time on their hands. And so if comparing a ranked system to a progression one is choosing the lesser of two evils then a ranked halo game was far better than one like reach. Why not have social and ranked with the progression system in both but in ranked you get separated based on that skill. It can't be any worse than reach according to statistics.

[The Director]

Statistics? I can see online the differences between how popular a halo game with ranks are compared to one that has no ranks. And I did read your whole post does the first half of what you said not mean anything? Also If you have a system that gives some exp and some truskill if you win and nothing if you lose means your still going to play with the same kids who aren't as skilled because they just play a lot and can level up fast just based on that and not skill. Go look at all the inheritors and mythics in reach that get beat so easily just because they have a lot of play time on their hands. And so if comparing a ranked system to a progression one is choosing the lesser of two evils then a ranked halo game was far better than one like reach. Why not have social and ranked with the progression system in both but in ranked you get separated based on that skill. It can't be any worse than reach according to statistics.

Well that's what the second suggestion was about good sir. If you decrease the rate at which a player drops truskill, it will make it very much harder to derank, while still putting people in their average skill level. As for the exp part, that's just unlock rank. It doesn't affect truskill in any way. Also, I wouldn't mind if they allowed people to see their truskill, but at the same time the whole "U r wrog cuz I hav a 50 nd u dn't" thing got old quick. As far as social and ranked matches, the only problem with this is that it puts certain playlists in a non-social environment that would be fun in a social environment.

 

Plus, in H3, there were people who treated the social playlists as ranked playlists and got really really good at them. However, the truskill didn't effect these playlists, so they usually got matched up with BK's and ended up ruining the game for them. The trick is to balance it out perfectly between the two types of players in question, and as you can probably guess it's pretty hit or miss. Plus, if Halo loses it's competitive players (ALL of them) it will still be a multi-million dollar franchise, so it's hard for me to understand why MLG types feel entitled to having Halo custom tailored to their wants.

 

And the statistics in question were based off of reports received and bans issued during the times of both Halo 3 and Halo Reach.

[xCarnageX9]

1 I don't understand. How do you measure a truskill level if your rank never goes down with a loss?

2 And the exp in halo 4 unlocks armor, armor abilities, weapon loadouts etc. so that will affect gameplay. So if you play a lot your rewarded even if your skill level is below average and your still playing with people that might not play as much but are still better than you and then their gameplay is affected because they WANT TO WIN and they get matched with players WHO DON"T CARE to win.

3 And having a 50 made the players strive to get that. But even if say reach didn't have a 1-50 system and had some way to match players according to their skill Reach would have way more people playing

4 And what do you mean by people trying in h3 social playlists. You seem to like reach and all of h3's social playlists are just like all of halo reach's playlists because of NO RANKS so you prove my point

5 And i'm not an mlg type I like playing team snipers but it's hard to win when players either quit, or let themselves be killed. So whats the difference between those kinds of kids who get put on your team in reach and a booster/deranker in h3. And people didn't seem to mind them in h3 as much as they do these quiters and and people of low skill that get put on their team.

6 And why ranks are important is because if halo 2 had no ranks like reach then the halo franchise and even the xbox wouldn't be where it's at and we might no even be talking about halo4.

7. And ill tell you I hear a lot of how this game is turning into cod because of classes, perks but all that is what should be added. Now how it's really like cod is the fact that there is no truskill system. You try and cater to the average person just running around trying to have fun and thats well and good. But like you said there is diversity in gamers and they have fun competing and trying to better themselves and it's not FAIR to them.

[The Director]

-snip-

Actually, I don't like Halo Reach and I've played FAR more H3 ranked games than I have social games. My current account isn't my first, nor even my second. I've had 4 accounts so far. 3/4 of them were in the H3 days.

 

The unlocks in H4 will be separate from the truskill. While this will impact gameplay, as it has been said you don't get the unlocks without winning. And your truskill DOES go down, but your exp rank does not.

 

An alternative is to make it 5 or 10 losses = truskill point loss, and no exp for losing (or 1/10 of the exp you would have gotten). This will make it a real pain in the ass to derank and make it easier to catch and punish derankers. It will also give people the opportunity to continue playing people of similar skill level, while providing an incentive to win.

 

Truskill isn't based on EXP, it's based on wins and losses. ^ That suggestion would incorporate both the truskill AND the exp rank system in a nice little harmony. I'm not sure if you are trying to argue against this or not, but if you are I don't see why because everybody wins with it.

 

As far as your post:

1. N/A your truskill does go down, just at a decreased rate.

2. And no, you don't get EXP unless you win with my suggestion in place. Or you get such a low amount that it's not even worth it to lose. Wins also affect truskill in my suggestion. EXP in my suggestion is also based on individual performance, so if you play really well but your team sucks, you will still get a decent amount of exp.

3. Yes, it was a goal to shoot for, but simultaneously it was also an annoyance because people took it too seriously.

4. No, I actually hate H3's social playlists, so I was forced to play on H3's ranked playlists because they were different. You seem to have misunderstood what I was getting at, I want either no ranked/social playlists, or one that has duplicate playlists. (i.e. Team Swat in both social AND ranked, so you don't have to play with the tryhards if you don't want to).

5. I like team snipers too, and there isn't much of a difference between them, but there were more boosters/derankers in H3 than there are BK's in Reach. And you and I must have had very different experiences, because back in the H3 days there was a new thread on b-net at least once a day complaining about Boosters/Derankers, and the community was a whole lot smaller back then than it is now.

6. I never said ranks weren't important. If I thought that I wouldn't have taken the time to come up with a way to add a ranking system that IS based on skill level.

7. I think you are a bit confused as to what fair means. The majority of Halo players are casual players who like to play for fun. So by catering to the competitive players by taking the fun things out and making it more "srs bzns" would be unfair to the casual players. And since there are more casual players than competitive players, this would be TREMENDOUSLY unfair.

[Tallgeese]

Throwing my two cents in...I really could care less. I have played every Halo game, I have a 50 and a 42 in Halo 3, an Inheritor and an Eclipse in Reach...I play for fun, I enjoy playing with friends...thats the only reason I got so far iin halo 3, team doubles was a balst with a friend. If the game is fun, I dont care what the symbol is next to my name, it is just a symbol and means nothing. I do agree that there needs to be some sort of skill in the system to pair players so there wont be any more steamrolling like there was in Halo 3 and Reach. But I dont mind the progression system, i would rather continue to improve than lose xp/rank because of a couple of losses (not necessarily my fault, going up againt derankers, and a full team on reach etc.)

[fpstactic]

my suspicion is, 343 wants to take the smack talk out of games, doing their bit with their game, in a video about "slayer pro"(i think it was called), the commentator mentioned "so the hard core players can still speak about doing ungodly things to each others mothers"

 

its true... where did the famous "teabag" come from?

 

people suceed in life by putting in the work, a skill is developed for many people with a ranked system

I played because i liked the extremely high skill level games, one out of tenish times there was a deranker, but it was worth it, and this problem could be fixed if the rank system assumed all players in a party were as good as the best player in the party... how then would the derankers statistics come into play?

 

the solution seems so simple that I wonder what 343s agenda is

 

along with making game types accessable to social and ranked driven players, doesn't this solve all but the problem of bad sportsmanship?

[The Director]

my suspicion is, 343 wants to take the smack talk out of games, doing their bit with their game, in a video about "slayer pro"(i think it was called), the commentator mentioned "so the hard core players can still speak about doing ungodly things to each others mothers"

 

its true... where did the famous "teabag" come from?

 

people suceed in life by putting in the work, a skill is developed for many people with a ranked system

I played because i liked the extremely high skill level games, one out of tenish times there was a deranker, but it was worth it, and this problem could be fixed if the rank system assumed all players in a party were as good as the best player in the party... how then would the derankers statistics come into play?

 

the solution seems so simple that I wonder what 343s agenda is

 

along with making game types accessable to social and ranked driven players, doesn't this solve all but the problem of bad sportsmanship?

If they wanted to solve bad sportsmanship... why do they make it to where you can teabag with the Mantis? :3 lmao

[L33T64]

Why are you so obsessed with showing off your skill? It's not like anyone cares about other peoples skill. It seems like you only want the Halo 3 ranking system for bragging rights, which I find pretty childish.

 

Just play the game and have fun, you can still show off your skill by dominating people in a match.

 

Great post bro, my thoughts exactly.

[Wolfspector]

I wish rank were based more on skill too. I mean maybe this way is more fair, or less extortable, but seriously, what game that has a ranking system doesn't show you skill level? That's a reason to keep people playing even longer too

[Yerfniw]

Why are you so obsessed with showing off your skill? It's not like anyone cares about other peoples skill. It seems like you only want the Halo 3 ranking system for bragging rights, which I find pretty childish.

 

Just play the game and have fun, you can still show off your skill by dominating people in a match.

Halo is a compettitive game and if you cant track your skill or get matched with players with similar skill level then it gets borring

 

I Beg you 343 STOP TRYING TO BE LIKE COD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tallgeese]

Halo is a compettitive game and if you cant track your skill or get matched with players with similar skill level then it gets borring

 

I Beg you 343 STOP TRYING TO BE LIKE COD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They have already said that Halo 4 pairs individuals and teams up based on skill...and we still dont know the full extent to the possible ranking system in Halo 4, we only know the progression system

[xxBEASTLYBOYZxx]

I don't care what anyone says but I love anything 343 has done with this game

[Angel of Death D20]

To all who are barking about the Halo 3 ranking system. Keep in mind Bungie did say that, that was NOT intended to be a perfect system, yes it was better than Halo 2's but Halo 3's ranking system had major flaws. Such as boosting, deranking, and of course the fact that winning or losing a game doesn't mean how good of a player you are. You could have had a bad day/game or it could have been horrible lag, latency, so until I see hard core evidence other wise I refuse to believe that Halo 3's ranking system was as: "great" as people make it out to be. And yes I did experience it for myself, thus how my comment is valid.

[Cocoa]

Rank, progression or skill mean jack squat. What is important to me would be to have a custom games search, to allow you to search for a custom game based on a set on parameters such as gametype, team size and mapsize. That would definetly keep the player count high over time.

 

[Cpt Reload]

Dissapointing... was really wanting a skill system It is a main component in keeping people motivated and competitive. Becoming more and more like COD everyday

[DIRTY_PUNK]

People just don't understand that skill isn't to SHOW OFF, CODDish progression is for that "look me is 15th prestige". I loved the skill based system because it allowed me to get better and play fair matchups ! Without worrying to play 8 hours a day to unlock a decent looking outfit... Skill is meant to push you trough improve your knowledge of the game mechanics, to better your 4-shotting skill or no-scopes and most importantly grenades and map knowledge! I' m not a 50 I am a 32, I got there from being a 16... It's not only progressing, is pushing you to get better end enjoy yourself better

[spoon76]

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Seriously

http://www.youtube.com/user/BravoMLG/videos?view=0

[Mike Tobi]

pff this sounds like the cod progressing system There goes balanced halo were everyone start out the match evenly.

[InFI Moltar]

Having both will the Progression system and the Ranking system would be ideal and 343 should be aware of that (as it is pretty obvious the majority of the consumers want to see the ranking playlist) and I am very confident they will have a Ranking system for us in the game. The Ranking system to me is essential to keep Halo playable it adds that incentive to work together and win. Also the game is so much more intense when you are actually playing for something, if it soley a progression system it barely matters if you win or lose so those close games are significantly less intense. I want to be the best and compete with the best I don't care about unlocking stuff as much and playing casual players that go afk for half the game to check their facebook status no fun in that at all.

[Hᴜᴍᴘsᴛʏʟᴇs]

Having both will the Progression system and the Ranking system would be ideal and 343 should be aware of that (as it is pretty obvious the majority of the consumers want to see the ranking playlist) and I am very confident they will have a Ranking system for us in the game.

 

I'm pretty confident as well. Putting my hope in them!

[Force 410]

HEY EVERYONE! SUBSCIRBE TO BRAVO'S CHANNEL FOR ALL HALO RELATED INFO AND JUST TO SEE HOW AWESOME HE IS! HE'S GOT A BUNCH OF HALO 4 VIDS AND INFO COMING SOON! LOOK OUT FOR NOV 1ST!

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BravoMLG?feature=g-user-u

[Soapy]

Personally I would prefer to see skill more of a skill ranking system, similar to Halo 3. But who knows this might be just as good. I guess we'll have to wait and see.