DMR too strong

[NeroTheCorgi]

I find myself not enjoying the mutliplayer of this game very much and the main reason is DMR. The gun is too strong and leads to quick unenjoyable combat. DMR fights are usually 2 people side stepping going shot for shot until 1 of them gets 4 hits to the head in a row, it is very dull doing this every couple of minutes. Another issue with the DMR is how easily a single person can pick a player off across the map. Half of my deaths in Big Team Infitity slayer involve me being gunned down across the map by 1 or 2 players with the DMR which is very frustrating. I realize the game has only been out for a couple of days and changes will be made. I would enjoy seeing more playlist that involve no prescion weapons at spawn and that encourage greater close quarters combat. The DMR could use a slight damage reduction as well or just be taken out as a starting weapon choice, the BR should really be the only prescion weapon at start.

[Maximum Clutch]

No. Just no. The DMR is a long range weapon don't complain if your being killed at long range by it.

[Real Talk]

I agree, they should probably tone the DMR a bit. Other than that though I think its fine I have had plenty of skirmishes against another player where we both end up dying, which at the moment doesn't really bother me. I have a lot of memories of Halo where me and another player are getting shot for shot until one of us misses, I find it pretty fun. The more skilled player tends to come out on top imo.

[NeroTheCorgi]

"I agree, they should probably tone the DMR a bit. Other than that though I think its fine I have had plenty of skirmishes against another player where we both end up dying, which at the moment doesn't really bother me. I have a lot of memories of Halo where me and another player are getting shot for shot until one of us misses, I find it pretty fun. The more skilled player tends to come out on top imo."

 

i understand the fun of a talented DMR fight, but it should no be present in every game type, DMR start should be limited to only certain playlist like SlayerPro

[RisingPho3nix]

The only thing I've noticed changed between the Reach DMR and Halo 4's DMR is the accuracy. The DMR in Halo 4 is a bit more accurate, and honestly, I think it's fine the way it is. I use it as a starting weapon, but if I use it in the wrong situation, I get killed.

 

Honestly, I hope 343 leaves all the weapons balanced the way they are. My biggest pet peeve is when developers are constantly tweaking weapon balances, as it runs the risk of making certain weapons absolutely useless.

 

I would also venture to say that 343 built the DMR the way they did so that the BR still had a valid place in the sandbox. Otherwise they'd basically be the same weapon.

[NeroTheCorgi]

The only thing I've noticed changed between the Reach DMR and Halo 4's DMR is the accuracy. The DMR in Halo 4 is a bit more accurate, and honestly, I think it's fine the way it is. I use it as a starting weapon, but if I use it in the wrong situation, I get killed.

 

Honestly, I hope 343 leaves all the weapons balanced the way they are. My biggest pet peeve is when developers are constantly tweaking weapon balances, as it runs the risk of making certain weapons absolutely useless.

 

I would also venture to say that 343 built the DMR the way they did so that the BR still had a valid place in the sandbox. Otherwise they'd basically be the same weapon.

 

yes leave it the way it is, just not as a starting weapon it is way to strong, it doesnt lose any accuracy close quarters or long range and when you hit a player scoped in they stay scoped in

[Benchimus]

I find myself not enjoying the mutliplayer of this game very much and the main reason is DMR. The gun is too strong and leads to quick unenjoyable combat. DMR fights are usually 2 people side stepping going shot for shot until 1 of them gets 4 hits to the head in a row, it is very dull doing this every couple of minutes. Another issue with the DMR is how easily a single person can pick a player off across the map. Half of my deaths in Big Team Infitity slayer involve me being gunned down across the map by 1 or 2 players with the DMR which is very frustrating. I realize the game has only been out for a couple of days and changes will be made. I would enjoy seeing more playlist that involve no prescion weapons at spawn and that encourage greater close quarters combat. The DMR could use a slight damage reduction as well or just be taken out as a starting weapon choice, the BR should really be the only prescion weapon at start.

DMR takes 5 head shots to kill. Also in Big team, do not go running around out in the open and do not stand in one spot for too long. If this is what you are doing, you deserve to get killed over and over again. Stick to cover, look around before moving, avoid open areas, etc. I assume you are new.

[NeroTheCorgi]

DMR takes 5 head shots to kill. Also in Big team, do not go running around out in the open and do not stand in one spot for too long. If this is what you are doing, you deserve to get killed over and over again. Stick to cover, look around before moving, avoid open areas, etc. I assume you are new.

 

Ok so dont even play like it is halo then, open spaces avoid them are you kidding dude???? how am i supposed to get from point A to point B by sticking to cover, this game is all about moving through open spaces, and standing still?? i never stand still i am constantly capping bases and supporting teamates, i am dying because i DMR can easily kill a player from distance and the death comes in an instant when 2 DMR players attack you, and no i am not new i am a veteran to all halo games, i wouldnt be gripping if i halo 4 was my first game

[Pr0larbear]

You realize that the DMR and BR take both 5 shots to kill someone right? The only difference is the BRs MINUSCULE loss in accuracy over long range, which to be honest isnt enough to change anything if you know how to use it. The DMR is fine, the BR is fine.

What i'm surprised is you havent stated anything about the Light rifle. You know... The one that only takes 4 shots to kill you instead of 5 and is dead on every shot. Though the LR is balanced by being significantly weaker when it is unzoomed.

 

LR if anything shouldnt be a starting weapon in a big map gametype. But then again its unlocked at a fairly low level so its your own fault for picking a weapon not suited for your situation.

 

Big map? Start with an LR loadout at beginning, kill someone with a DMR/BR whatever suits you, pick it up. Destroy people with LRs in close range. Easy.

[Benchimus]

Ok so dont even play like it is halo then, open spaces avoid them are you kidding dude???? how am i supposed to get from point A to point B by sticking to cover, this game is all about moving through open spaces, and standing still?? i never stand still i am constantly capping bases and supporting teamates, i am dying because i DMR can easily kill a player from distance and the death comes in an instant when 2 DMR players attack you, and no i am not new i am a veteran to all halo games, i wouldnt be gripping if i halo 4 was my first game

I see. Well the way you worded it comes off as if you have never really played before, as if you didnt expect this to happen. The DMR in Reach and a good BR user in 3 would have done the same to you if you ran out in the open in Big Team, something a "veteran" would know. No, I am not kidding. Stick behind rocks/walls/ obstacles whenever possible and pop as many peeps as you can. Only stay out in the open long enough to make it to different cover after they figure out where you are. You said Big Team, not objective. You have no reason to leave an area and go anywhere in Big Team unless forced out by the enemy. As far as Objective is concerned, Idk what to say as I am partial to just sitting back and picking people off with the DMR til the game ends.

[Pook and Pie]

Getting cross-mapped is happening a lot less to me in this game than Reach. That's all Reach basically was: Every single game of Hemorrhage was one team staying and camping its base while 2-4 guys would talk and coordinate who they were going to shoot with their DMRs for the whole game so no one could venture around the map.

 

It would be somewhat nice to see the reticule auto aim range for the DMR slightly reduced, but I think that's about all that needs to happen to it. Besides that, I'm a BR user at the moment (according to my own gamercard, Favorite weapon - BR) and I'm finding the manners in which I'm being killed by DMR users to be perfectly legitimate, so... yeah. I know that probably had no bearing on your own opinion, but I'm not having that much trouble.

[Benchimus]

You realize that the DMR and BR take both 5 shots to kill someone right? The only difference is the BRs MINUSCULE loss in accuracy over long range, which to be honest isnt enough to change anything if you know how to use it. The DMR is fine, the BR is fine.

What i'm surprised is you havent stated anything about the Light rifle. You know... The one that only takes 4 shots to kill you instead of 5 and is dead on every shot.

2nd thread that you and I have both cleared up the 4sk, 5sk DMR confusion... Does nobody else test these things asap when a new Halo drops or what?

[NeroTheCorgi]

You realize that the DMR and BR take both 5 shots to kill someone right? The only difference is the BRs MINUSCULE loss in accuracy over long range, which to be honest isnt enough to change anything if you know how to use it. The DMR is fine, the BR is fine.

What i'm surprised is you havent stated anything about the Light rifle. You know... The one that only takes 4 shots to kill you instead of 5 and is dead on every shot.

 

BR loses accuracy over distance which makes it fine although i wouldnt be against a nurf, and DMR is not fine, it does not belong as a starting weapon in every playlist, it encourages tryhard over-competitive tactics and every game just devolves into team control high ground with long range DMR, the Light rifle has a slightly lower rate of fire and fire at a quicker rate works much better with the DMR, along with that the light-rifle loses its single shot when unzoomed making it weaker than the DMR close-quarters

[Benchimus]

BR loses accuracy over distance which makes it fine although i wouldnt be against a nurf, and DMR is not fine, it does not belong as a starting weapon in every playlist, it encourages tryhard over-competitive tactics and every game just devolves into team control high ground with long range DMR, the Light rifle has a slightly lower rate of fire and fire at a quicker rate works much better with the DMR, along with that the light-rifle loses its single shot when unzoomed making it weaker than the DMR close-quarters

Between the addition of the saw and the AR now being more accurate, blind spray and pray is now more viable than in past Halos. So how can you support nerfing the BR or any precision weapon for that matter?

[NeroTheCorgi]

I see. Well the way you worded it comes off as if you have never really played before, as if you didnt expect this to happen. The DMR in Reach and a good BR user in 3 would have done the same to you if you ran out in the open in Big Team, something a "veteran" would know. No, I am not kidding. Stick behind rocks/walls/ obstacles whenever possible and pop as many peeps as you can. Only stay out in the open long enough to make it to different cover after they figure out where you are. You said Big Team, not objective. You have no reason to leave an area and go anywhere in Big Team unless forced out by the enemy. As far as Objective is concerned, Idk what to say as I am partial to just sitting back and picking people off with the DMR til the game ends.

 

sitting back is not halo, that is not how you play halo, that is how you play COD, in COD you sit back and stack kills so you can earn a kill streak, Halo is about aggressive play where offense is the winner, being offensive and controlling the map in order to gain access to power weapons has always been the way to play halo, now 343 allows players to hide behind objects and snipe with their DMR that have no bloom at all and then they earn ordnance and get power weapons without playing offensive at all, they are supporting dull gameplay

 

Between the addition of the saw and the AR now being more accurate, blind spray and pray is now more viable than in past Halos. So how can you support nerfing the BR or any precision weapon for that matter?

 

Blind spray and pray does not work at all, and the Saw is a powerweapon that you do no spawn with so being able to blindly shoot with that is fine, the AR cannot be sprayed against a player with any sort of talent, and i support nerfing precision weapons due to their high accuracy and high damage output, all i am asking for is a tiny nerf that would support more close quarters combat and punish players that wish to hide in the back

[Benchimus]

sitting back is not halo, that is not how you play halo, that is how you play COD, in COD you sit back and stack kills so you can earn a kill streak, Halo is about aggressive play where offense is the winner, being offensive and controlling the map in order to gain access to power weapons has always been the way to play halo, now 343 allows players to hide behind objects and snipe with their DMR that have no bloom at all and then they earn ordnance and get power weapons without playing offensive at all, they are supporting dull gameplay

Several points here. First off, the way I play Halo is to get as many kills as possible while dying as little as possible and doing anything and everything in my power (save for cheating) to make that happen. In Big Team, that means (at least for me) doing as I said. If you want to run around a huge map being aggressive then you are going to leave yourself open to being picked off. Now I do agree with that sentiment when it comes to smaller maps like what is in regular Team Slayer but that isnt what we are talking about. I will also agree that Halo is/was about map and weapon control. This ordnance and general lack of map weapons shenanigans is fine and well for what would be a social playlist as I do find it fun in its own way but hopefully when they role out the 1-50 like system they talked about, those playlists will be more like older Halos. Ive strayed from my original point tho...

The DMR is fine. Just because you cant run out in the open constantly doesnt make it OP.

 

sitting back is not halo, that is not how you play halo, that is how you play COD, in COD you sit back and stack kills so you can earn a kill streak, Halo is about aggressive play where offense is the winner, being offensive and controlling the map in order to gain access to power weapons has always been the way to play halo, now 343 allows players to hide behind objects and snipe with their DMR that have no bloom at all and then they earn ordnance and get power weapons without playing offensive at all, they are supporting dull gameplay

 

 

 

Blind spray and pray does not work at all, and the Saw is a powerweapon that you do no spawn with so being able to blindly shoot with that is fine, the AR cannot be sprayed against a player with any sort of talent, and i support nerfing precision weapons due to their high accuracy and high damage output, all i am asking for is a tiny nerf that would support more close quarters combat and punish players that wish to hide in the back

While I havent done much spraying with the AR, I have had it used on me quite a bit. As I said in another thread, several times I have been left scratching my head as I was mowed down with the AR faster than I could land 5 shots with my DMR (my aim isnt perfect but I land all my shots at that range 99% of the time) from distances I used to consider relatively safe in such a situation.So I did a custom just earlier today to test how many bullets it took to kill and from what distance. IIRC, the AR took 16 landed bullets to kill. (I believe this was the same in Reach) However, these 16 bullets landed faster than they would have in Reach due to being more accurate even when being full autoed. So while the DMR is virtually the same as it was, the AR has been made better up close than it was. I am going to test all this again now. If I made a mistake, I will come back and correct myself.

[NeroTheCorgi]

Several points here. First off, the way I play Halo is to get as many kills as possible while dying as little as possible and doing anything and everything in my power (save for cheating) to make that happen. In Big Team, that means (at least for me) doing as I said. If you want to run around a huge map being aggressive then you are going to leave yourself open to being picked off. Now I do agree with that sentiment when it comes to smaller maps like what is in regular Team Slayer but that isnt what we are talking about. I will also agree that Halo is/was about map and weapon control. This ordnance and general lack of map weapons shenanigans is fine and well for what would be a social playlist as I do find it fun in its own way but hopefully when they role out the 1-50 like system they talked about, those playlists will be more like older Halos. Ive strayed from my original point tho...

The DMR is fine. Just because you cant run out in the open constantly doesnt make it OP.

 

I want to be able to run around and no instantly die, this isnt COD, THIS ISNT ABOUT KILL DEATH RATIO, dying as little as possible and getting as many kill is your main goal then you are doing it wrong, playing like that is dull and simplistic, where is the fun in preserving life and avoiding action, you play the game with the mentality of of COD player, I WANT TO BE ABLE RUN IN THE OPEN i want to being offensive and in the action at all times, but with these OP DMR's i cant run into battle, i am being force to play like everyone else and DMR fight long-range, this is not traditional halo gameplay, look at halo 2 and halo 3 multiplayer barely any of the maps favored players that hid in the back, Halo-Reach made the move to DRM long ranged focused gameplay and towards the later days of the game they removed all the fun playlist like action sack or anniversary big team, and nearly every game turned into DMR slayer, this game is evolving into something favors over-competitive gameplay and high K/Ds

 

Several points here. First off, the way I play Halo is to get as many kills as possible while dying as little as possible and doing anything and everything in my power (save for cheating) to make that happen. In Big Team, that means (at least for me) doing as I said. If you want to run around a huge map being aggressive then you are going to leave yourself open to being picked off. Now I do agree with that sentiment when it comes to smaller maps like what is in regular Team Slayer but that isnt what we are talking about. I will also agree that Halo is/was about map and weapon control. This ordnance and general lack of map weapons shenanigans is fine and well for what would be a social playlist as I do find it fun in its own way but hopefully when they role out the 1-50 like system they talked about, those playlists will be more like older Halos. Ive strayed from my original point tho...

The DMR is fine. Just because you cant run out in the open constantly doesnt make it OP.

 

While I havent done much spraying with the AR, I have had it used on me quite a bit. As I said in another thread, several times I have been left scratching my head as I was mowed down with the AR faster than I could land 5 shots with my DMR (my aim isnt perfect but I land all my shots at that range 99% of the time) from distances I used to consider relatively safe in such a situation.So I did a custom just earlier today to test how many bullets it took to kill and from what distance. IIRC, the AR took 16 landed bullets to kill. (I believe this was the same in Reach) However, these 16 bullets landed faster than they would have in Reach due to being more accurate even when being full autoed. So while the DMR is virtually the same as it was, the AR has been made better up close than it was. I am going to test all this again now. If I made a mistake, I will come back and correct myself.

 

this isnt even going against my gripes on the DMR, but the AR is supposed to win close quarters every time, the problem is close quarters combat is difficult to achieve because if you try to travel anywhere youll be mowed down by 5 shots from a DMR

[Pr0larbear]

BR loses accuracy over distance which makes it fine although i wouldnt be against a nurf, and DMR is not fine, it does not belong as a starting weapon in every playlist, it encourages tryhard over-competitive tactics and every game just devolves into team control high ground with long range DMR, the Light rifle has a slightly lower rate of fire and fire at a quicker rate works much better with the DMR, along with that the light-rifle loses its single shot when unzoomed making it weaker than the DMR close-quarters

 

 

Did you not fully read my post? Clearly i stated the BR does lose some accuracy. However it is not significant enough to make a huge difference.

The LR will always outgun a BR and DMR user of equal skill in a long range fight. This is the situation we are talking about. Long Range. I have stated how the LR is balanced by being unzoomed. You are informing no one any new information.

 

Also, that is the point of a team game. To get advantage through use of terrain and map awareness. In a legitimate standoff im completely comfortable with people hunkering down that way. In the sense of someone camping around a stupid corner all game, i'm not. There is a difference between tactical prowess and complete chicken**** motives.

 

If the DMR doesn't belong as a starting weapon than sure as hell neither does your BR or the LR for that matter.

 

 

Carbine here we come!

[Zedzish]

ahhh yes what a fantastic idea lets dull down the DMR a little.... say make it a 6 shot so now the BR you use is a 5 shot........ This totally makes sense and then why we are at it lets just tone down every gun but the BR that way the BR is the best gun in the game!!!! And then all that nostalgia everyone has of thinking they were pawning noobs in halo 3 might come back to them......

(all sarcasm intended)

[killerdude1635]

DMR is waaaaay too strong for what it is, too much damage and not enough bloom.

Period.

 

They either need to:

A. Reduce the damage

or

B. increase the bloom

 

Because now, it's just ridiculous, it's practically a power weapon. Like CE's magnum....

[NeroTheCorgi]

Did you not fully read my post? Clearly i stated the BR does lose some accuracy. However it is not significant enough to make a huge difference.

The LR will always outgun a BR and DMR user of equal skill in a long range fight. This is the situation we are talking about. Long Range. I have stated how the LR is balanced by being unzoomed. You are informing no one any new information.

 

Also, that is the point of a team game. To get advantage through use of terrain and map awareness. In a legitimate standoff im completely comfortable with people hunkering down that way. In the sense of someone camping around a stupid corner all game, i'm not. There is a difference between tactical prowess and complete chicken**** motives.

 

If the DMR doesn't belong as a starting weapon than sure as hell neither does your BR or the LR for that matter.

 

 

Carbine here we come!

 

I would love if all precision weapons were taken out from starting weapons, but that will not happen, i believe the carbine has a perfect feel to if and very balanced damage output, after your original post i went and tested the Light-Rifle and yes it is just as strong as the DMR, so i suggest since these weapons will remain as starting weapons that they receive a modest damage reduction that will improve the survivability of players, if it is possible for someone to take statistics of team slayer games from halo2/3/reach/4 and find out the average lifespan of players i believe it would show a significant drop in halo 4 compared to 2 and 3, what i am arguing for mainly is that players be given a better chance to live and if hardcore DMR longrange tactics is what people want then limit that to certain playlist so casuals that just want to have fun can play without having to put on their try-hard pants for everygame, 343 should cater to the casuals first, they are the majority in this game, the people that just want to have fun with a little competition involved, if they cater to the hardcore super skilled players that favor intense quick firefights that are over in a few seconds then they are going to create a frustrated hyper competitive game that i and many other will find unenjoyable, i am also aware this game is very new and that playlist like actionsack and grifball will be added for the fun lovers out there

 

ahhh yes what a fantastic idea lets dull down the DMR a little.... say make it a 6 shot so now the BR you use is a 5 shot........ This totally makes sense and then why we are at it lets just tone down every gun but the BR that way the BR is the best gun in the game!!!! And then all that nostalgia everyone has of thinking they were pawning noobs in halo 3 might come back to them......

(all sarcasm intended)

 

yes i realize the BR is ultra strong as well, i want damage reduction across the board for all precision weapons mainly the DMR/BR/Light-Rifle, or if damage reduction is not favored, then how about increased bloom to reduce accuracy or getting hit will take you out of scope, for whatever reason 343 seems to support the use of unhindered precision rifle gameplay

[Zedzish]

DMR is waaaaay too strong for what it is, too much damage and not enough bloom.

Period.

 

They either need to:

A. Reduce the damage

or

B. increase the bloom

 

Because now, it's just ridiculous, it's practically a power weapon. Like CE's magnum....

 

The DMR does exactly what it did in reach minus the bloom so now its just more accurate so people can now spam it.

Yes i do believe the game needs bloom BUT if the DMR gets bloom back so should the BR.

[killerdude1635]

The DMR does exactly what it did in reach minus the bloom so now its just more accurate so people can now spam it.

Yes i do believe the game needs bloom BUT if the DMR gets bloom back so should the BR.

DMR in Reach wasn't even remotely OP as it is now.

Also, BR never had bloom, it had Recoil, which it still has and is somewhat decent, venturing towards OP but not quite there yet, The DMR however, has gone to the Deep-end of the OP pool.

 

As stated above, Too much damage and not enough bloom.

[NeroTheCorgi]

Did you not fully read my post? Clearly i stated the BR does lose some accuracy. However it is not significant enough to make a huge difference.

The LR will always outgun a BR and DMR user of equal skill in a long range fight. This is the situation we are talking about. Long Range. I have stated how the LR is balanced by being unzoomed. You are informing no one any new information.

 

Also, that is the point of a team game. To get advantage through use of terrain and map awareness. In a legitimate standoff im completely comfortable with people hunkering down that way. In the sense of someone camping around a stupid corner all game, i'm not. There is a difference between tactical prowess and complete chicken**** motives.

 

If the DMR doesn't belong as a starting weapon than sure as hell neither does your BR or the LR for that matter.

 

 

Carbine here we come!

 

I want all precision weapons besides carbine nurfed, i believe that best idea is to increase bloom and make getting hit while scope cause player to unscope, these small changes can balance gameplay in a very simple way and increase players ability to survive

 

The DMR does exactly what it did in reach minus the bloom so now its just more accurate so people can now spam it.

Yes i do believe the game needs bloom BUT if the DMR gets bloom back so should the BR.

 

yes exactly, BR/DMR/Light-Rifle are all too strong, add increased bloom and unzoom on hit and i think the gameplay will feel much more balanced

[Zedzish]

I would love if all precision weapons were taken out from starting weapons, but that will not happen, i believe the carbine has a perfect feel to if and very balanced damage output, after your original post i went and tested the Light-Rifle and yes it is just as strong as the DMR, so i suggest since these weapons will remain as starting weapons that they receive a modest damage reduction that will improve the survivability of players, if it is possible for someone to take statistics of team slayer games from halo2/3/reach/4 and find out the average lifespan of players i believe it would show a significant drop in halo 4 compared to 2 and 3, what i am arguing for mainly is that players be given a better chance to live and if hardcore DMR longrange tactics is what people want then limit that to certain playlist so casuals that just want to have fun can play without having to put on their try-hard pants for everygame, 343 should cater to the casuals first, they are the majority in this game, the people that just want to have fun with a little competition involved, if they cater to the hardcore super skilled players that favor intense quick firefights that are over in a few seconds then they are going to create a frustrated hyper competitive game that i and many other will find unenjoyable, i am also aware this game is very new and that playlist like actionsack and grifball will be added for the fun lovers out there

 

 

 

yes i realize the BR is ultra strong as well, i want damage reduction across the board for all precision weapons mainly the DMR/BR/Light-Rifle, or if damage reduction is not favored, then how about increased bloom to reduce accuracy or getting hit will take you out of scope, for whatever reason 343 seems to support the use of unhindered precision rifle gameplay

 

Ahhh yes now we are on the same page. What is happening is there is NO bloom in this game. Don't believe me? go grab your BR and DMR and spam them as fast as you can into a wall. what happens???? well you will see the reticle will "bloom" out but every single bullet will hit the same point... so halo 5 has FAKE bloom. This means someone can spam you as fast as they can from anywhere and you die allot faster.

I have been saying this for days now but it seems im fighting a loosing battle because people that played halo 3 are unhappy with bloom because they cant spam their guns.

 

DMR in Reach wasn't even remotely OP as it is now.

Also, BR never had bloom, it had Recoil, which it still has and is somewhat decent, venturing towards OP but not quite there yet, The DMR however, has gone to the Deep-end of the OP pool.

 

As stated above, Too much damage and not enough bloom.

 

I don't believe the problem is damage, it is just simply the accuracy without bloom.

 

After all the DMR has always been a 5 shot and the BR if i remember correctly was a 4 shot in halo 3???