DMR too strong

[Benchimus]

this thread went to **** pretty quick, glad this community lacks the ability to stay on topic like some hyperactive kid with ADHD, im not complaining about the AR, the AR is fine in this game, i am complaining about the DMR, it is too accurate and too powerful, that goes for the BR and light-rifle as well, these guns are changing the gameplay into something that is simple and boring, halo 4 in its current state in a precision weapon spamfest in almost every playlist, fightfires literally come down to whoever misses first i guess instance death for a single miss is fun now, this gameplay is over competitive im not logging on to halo 4 to prove how skilled i was, im not trying to get a sick K/D, im trying to have fun and this longrange shot for shot instant death gameplay is far from fun

 

 

you can go ahead and leave this thread, you are posting useless information and are not contributing

You are correct. I will change my tune and be a more productive member of this site. I believe after every shot the DMR should bloom out to half the size of your screen and take 3 seconds to reset. No joke.

[David Bender]

Yes i use the assult rifle the mojority of the time and when i come across a dmr they usually win and the battle rifle doesnt have any recoil.....why

[W01FE]

Just spam the trigger as hard as you can... Well that may work if you're playing a bunch of kids with down-syndrome.

 

see assuming a skillful player they CAN SPAM THE dmr with no loss to accuracy at any range close to far. I think considering the weapons current accuracy and damage and fire rate tahts too much. im not asking for a big loss to accuracy but enough so that you cant hold down the trigger and effectively snipe. this would have little impact on the DMR at close range as the accuracy loss would be minimal.

 

 

In medium range, DMR and BR are equally matched, personally i dont see the BR losing anything over long range either but that's my experience with it. Any change applied to the DMR will have to be applied to the BR and also the LRs zoomed in firing mode.

 

not entirely true since each are supposed to have slight differences to them. so long as the choice makes DMR a choice and not irrelevant the change doesnt have to affect the others as well.

 

Close range, a BR is greater chance of success than the DMR. The BR has burst where the DMR does not. This allows for more recoverable errors in accuracy. If you miss once with the DMR that is 100% of the damage scource from that shot.

If you miss entirely with the BR then the same applies, though it is easier to maintain damage on target with the BR because you have the spread of 3 bullets to follow your crosshair as you move it. Miss one bullet of the burst? Its only 33% damage less than the full burst.

2? thats 66%. one bullet hit and you're still 33% more damage applied to your enemy than 0% from a missed DMR shot.

So i suggest people learn to aim.

 

One miss from a DMR is fatal, you can miss 2/3rds of your shot from a BR and still come out on top.

 

i admit, i just woke up, so im not really seeing how this is relevant to the discussion of DMR is too powerful or not. just stating what we (hopefully we) already know

 

 

On the argument of assault weapons... No just flat out no, assume both people of equal skill can keep their shots trained on each other throughout the firefight then the AR and SAW will always beat our your DMR, BR, and LR from medium range to close, the SAW in my opinion is a little too accurate for the type of gun it is.

I've full auto sprayed people too easily from what should be ineffective range for an assault weapon and beat out someone with a rifle of some sort.

 

SAW is a power weapon and as such shouldnt be directly compared to the basic loadouts, its supposed to be more powerful. ill say close range sure the AR will out gun the DMR,BR. medium range its much more up for grabs, yes the AR is better at farther range now but it doesnt mean you hold down the trigger and get the kill at med range, it requires a bit of bursting to get it right. lowering its DPS. But lets not ignore then 1 or 2 shots i had to eat just to get into med/close range to begin with, maybe more as you lose no accuracy for spamming the DMR. unless we are in a magical world where i can avoid your teamates, you, your sensors to get close enough without being shot at every time. maybe if the maps were designed to equally support CQC rather then so many open killing fields.

 

Fact is overal DMR doesnt have a weakness and is the best precision weapon overall as it suffers no real performance loss in any situation. it needs one, if a small one. id rather it be a choice then durp go DMR when choosing between precision weapons.

[NeroTheCorgi]

see assuming a skillful player they CAN SPAM THE dmr with no loss to accuracy at any range close to far. I think considering the weapons current accuracy and damage and fire rate tahts too much. im not asking for a big loss to accuracy but enough so that you cant hold down the trigger and effectively snipe. this would have little impact on the DMR at close range as the accuracy loss would be minimal.

 

 

 

 

not entirely true since each are supposed to have slight differences to them. so long as the choice makes DMR a choice and not irrelevant the change doesnt have to affect the others as well.

 

 

 

i admit, i just woke up, so im not really seeing how this is relevant to the discussion of DMR is too powerful or not. just stating what we (hopefully we) already know

 

 

 

 

SAW is a power weapon and as such shouldnt be directly compared to the basic loadouts, its supposed to be more powerful. ill say close range sure the AR will out gun the DMR,BR. medium range its much more up for grabs, yes the AR is better at farther range now but it doesnt mean you hold down the trigger and get the kill at med range, it requires a bit of bursting to get it right. lowering its DPS. But lets not ignore then 1 or 2 shots i had to eat just to get into med/close range to begin with, maybe more as you lose no accuracy for spamming the DMR. unless we are in a magical world where i can avoid your teamates, you, your sensors to get close enough without being shot at every time. maybe if the maps were designed to equally support CQC rather then so many open killing fields.

 

Fact is overal DMR doesnt have a weakness and is the best precision weapon overall as it suffers no real performance loss in any situation. it needs one, if a small one. id rather it be a choice then durp go DMR when choosing between precision weapons.

 

thank you for staying on the topic of DMR and understanding what the issue is, i just want to talk about the DMR and its abundance of strengths and lack of weakness

[W01FE]

just to clarify i dont think the DMR is OMG OP, but it is slightly unbalanced i believe. Something as small as a slight bloom effect/decrease in accurasy when holding down the trigger resulting in the player needing to pace there shots at long ranges more, could balance it quite effectively without making it too weak.

[RisingPho3nix]

It's funny, really. Release day/rest of reach's lifespan: "BLOOM SUCKS GET IT OUT OF OUR GAME YOU FOOLS. CATERING TO NOOBS THAT CANT AIM AND JUST SPAM IN CLOSE RANGE"

 

Halo 4: ^ pretty much everything there except close range is now long range and get out bloom is get in bloom.

 

Whatever happened to adapting and learning game mechanics rather than ask settings to be handed to you on a silver platter? You're not even a casual gamer at that point. You're a child that had his ball taken away from him.

 

I maintained a near 2.0 k/d with the addition of bloom and my usual hyper aggressive playstyle in reach.

I'm currently near a 2.0 k/d in halo 4 at the moment without it as well.

 

Simply put, learn how to use your weapons and adapt rather than sticking to your old beliefs and running balls deep into every situation thinking your old methods will work 100% of the time.

 

You sir, absolutely nailed it. I am sick to death of people begging developers to change weapon balances rather than simply adapting to the game. DICE absolutely broke the mortar tube in Battlefield 3 because of this. As far as I'm concerned, the only Halo game where a weapon or weapon combo was truly broken and legitimately needed to be changed was the infamous Plasma Pistol/BR combo from Halo 2.

 

Yes, the DMR is a powerful weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. It is not the be-all-end-all game breaking gun the OP is making it sound like. Close range, the assault rifle/shotgun/scattershot wins easily. Mid-range, the BR is just as good. Long range, sniper weapons win. And lets not forget the ordanance drops.

 

Learn and adapt, or die. Simple as that.

[Zanderos]

No. Just no. The DMR is a long range weapon don't complain if your being killed at long range by it.

 

...His point is that that type of play is boring. I agree.

 

How about let's keep it at the snipers being long range? That's the whole point of a sniper.

 

just to clarify i dont think the DMR is OMG OP, but it is slightly unbalanced i believe. Something as small as a slight bloom effect/decrease in accurasy when holding down the trigger resulting in the player needing to pace there shots at long ranges more, could balance it quite effectively without making it too weak.

 

Exactly. It isn't ridiculously overpowered. It's just that the range is slighty too much, and it makes for boring gameplay when everyone just sits at range and DMRs across the map. Since when is that fun? Oh, since never. I thought Reach taught us all that.

 

To me, it's like, wow yeah, I ******* realize that you can kill someone using a DMR if you have an AR and you're up close. But I don't want to be forced to crouch around certain maps in order to not give them the advantage, or other similarly boring tactics, just because the DMR has such a long range. It's not a matter of not being able to compete with it. It's the manner in which we have to do so.

[W01FE]

You sir, absolutely nailed it. I am sick to death of people begging developers to change weapon balances rather than simply adapting to the game. DICE absolutely broke the mortar tube in Battlefield 3 because of this. As far as I'm concerned, the only Halo game where a weapon or weapon combo was truly broken and legitimately needed to be changed was the infamous Plasma Pistol/BR combo from Halo 2.

 

Yes, the DMR is a powerful weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. It is not the be-all-end-all game breaking gun the OP is making it sound like. Close range, the assault rifle/shotgun/scattershot wins easily. Mid-range, the BR is just as good. Long range, sniper weapons win. And lets not forget the ordanance drops.

 

Learn and adapt, or die. Simple as that.

 

yes lets not balance something ever. fact is DMR is the best of all worlds with next to no weaknesses. you say DMR loses in CQC but ONLY if somehow the player snuck up on you, otherwise you would have already hit him at least once or twice while they closed distance.

 

we are already seeing what sort of adaptation this is leading to tho, majority go DMR or go home save for the few taht just straight up outplay you with whatever they pick. however its only slightly unbalanced, but in a game like this thats al it needs to leave all the other guns behind.

 

multiplayer will slowly devolve into a game of DMR slayer.

 

DMR needs a weakness that isnt directly tied to being able to be overcome by player skill just as a AR player, no matter how skilled, cant long range with the AR.

[NeroTheCorgi]

You sir, absolutely nailed it. I am sick to death of people begging developers to change weapon balances rather than simply adapting to the game. DICE absolutely broke the mortar tube in Battlefield 3 because of this. As far as I'm concerned, the only Halo game where a weapon or weapon combo was truly broken and legitimately needed to be changed was the infamous Plasma Pistol/BR combo from Halo 2.

 

Yes, the DMR is a powerful weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. It is not the be-all-end-all game breaking gun the OP is making it sound like. Close range, the assault rifle/shotgun/scattershot wins easily. Mid-range, the BR is just as good. Long range, sniper weapons win. And lets not forget the ordanance drops.

 

Learn and adapt, or die. Simple as that.

 

I wont adapt ill just leave and play a game that is fun, if 343 wants to take Halo down the hyper competitive road that COD is on then fine ill leave this series and never look back, asking for balance to the DMR is not out of the question thought, it is too strong for a STARTING weapon

[RisingPho3nix]

yes lets not balance something ever. fact is DMR is the best of all worlds with next to no weaknesses. you say DMR loses in CQC but ONLY if somehow the player snuck up on you, otherwise you would have already hit him at least once or twice while they closed distance.

 

we are already seeing what sort of adaptation this is leading to tho, majority go DMR or go home save for the few taht just straight up outplay you with whatever they pick. however its only slightly unbalanced, but in a game like this thats al it needs to leave all the other guns behind.

 

multiplayer will slowly devolve into a game of DMR slayer.

 

DMR needs a weakness that isnt directly tied to being able to be overcome by player skill just as a AR player, no matter how skilled, cant long range with the AR.

 

So you think that we should balance the game based on the idea that the only valid method of attack is head to head?

[W01FE]

So you think that we should balance the game based on the idea that the only valid method of attack is head to head?

 

obviously not, its a case of balance, atm DMR has no effective weakness. it kills as fast as the other loadouts, its more accurate, it suffers no accuracy loss, and is a precision weapon. saying its harder to use in CQC doesnt cut it as i can counter with when using a AR i CANNOT long range. that right there makes it obvious its not balanced. by choosing DMR your lethal at every level of gameplay.

 

im not even asking for a shortening of range or something weird like unable to use at close range, im just asking for a slight accuracy punishment for spammed shots at long range.

[DaviesGaming]

It's official. The game IS balanced.

 

I've seen threads saying that the BR the AR and the DMR is too overpowered and strong. That must mean everything is balanced.

[Zanderos]

multiplayer will slowly devolve into a game of DMR slayer.

 

Depending on the map, it already is.

 

It's official. The game IS balanced.

 

I've seen threads saying that the BR the AR and the DMR is too overpowered and strong. That must mean everything is balanced.

 

Not sure if serious...

[RisingPho3nix]

obviously not, its a case of balance, atm DMR has no effective weakness. it kills as fast as the other loadouts, its more accurate, it suffers no accuracy loss, and is a precision weapon. saying its harder to use in CQC doesnt cut it as i can counter with when using a AR i CANNOT long range. that right there makes it obvious its not balanced. by choosing DMR your lethal at every level of gameplay.

 

im not even asking for a shortening of range or something weird like unable to use at close range, im just asking for a slight accuracy punishment for spammed shots at long range.

 

So then what's wrong with the BR? Because on most maps, the BR and DMR function exactly the same. The only time the DMR seems to come out on top is on the big maps.

 

My biggest problem with tweaking the DMR at all comes from the fact that the BR is also in this game. If we reduce the accuracy or range of the DMR, then it becomes a BR clone. If we nerf the damage, then the BR becomes more powerful by default. So unless you have another solution, nerfing the DMR in any way makes it so that it no longer has it's own place in the sandbox. You might as well just ask 343 to remove it from the game entirely.

[W01FE]

So then what's wrong with the BR? Because on most maps, the BR and DMR function exactly the same. The only time the DMR seems to come out on top is on the big maps.

 

My biggest problem with tweaking the DMR at all comes from the fact that the BR is also in this game. If we reduce the accuracy or range of the DMR, then it becomes a BR clone. If we nerf the damage, then the BR becomes more powerful by default. So unless you have another solution, nerfing the DMR in any way makes it so that it no longer has it's own place in the sandbox. You might as well just ask 343 to remove it from the game entirely.

 

thats a bit naive, there are certainly ways to adjust it so its still its own gun. like a said a simple slight tweak to its accuracy when spam shooting at long ranges means its still accurate when the attacks are spaced, adn the accuracy loss should be small enought hat you can still fire quickly at close range and hit your target.

 

this would essentially make AR close to mid, BR mid (bit longer then AR) to close, DMR still just as effective at med-close, with a requirement to space your shots slightly at long range

[DaviesGaming]

Depending on the map, it already is.

 

 

 

Not sure if serious...

 

of course I'm serious. If their are complaints about all the weapons being to strong. Then how can is be unbalanced?

[zexi]

Here is my proposed fix on the starting weapons that there are controversy over:

 

DMR: Keep the damage per shot and 5 shots to kill, but decrease the firing rate to how fast it was if you controlled your DMR shots in Reach, or perhaps about the time, give or take a tenth of second.. This will make it better for long range - mid range only, as in close range a faster firing weapon will win.

 

BR: Return the 4 shot kill, but increase the shot spread. Not by a huge amount, because then it would be incredibly inaccurate, but impose a randomized spread so that is is still very effective at short and mid ranges, but more ineffective than the DMR at long range. This is no OP because 4 shot is as in the shields are still up after the 3rd shot, ONLY if all 3 bullets of each shot have hit the target. Finally, the 4th shot only kills the enemy if all 3 bullets hit as well, and the last bullet connects with the head. The 2nd bullet of the final shot takes out the shields, so if you didn't hit the head with the 3rd bullet, it becomes a 5 shot kill. Applying this, and increasing the spread/bloom of the BR will not change how hard it is to kill people with the BR as much, as every bullet from every shot must hit the enemy to kill them (with the final bullet being to the head).

 

AR: Increase bloom and increase rate of bloom, and slightly increase damage. In very close quarter scenarios, an AR should be able to beat a DMR and a BR, unless the enemy is a pro with either weapon.

 

Lightrifle: The light rifle is weak at close range, but strong at long range. Therefore (and this applies to all weapons) you should be unscoped whenever you get hit so the Lightrifle's scope power cannot be abused at close range.

 

Carbine: The carbine is pretty good and very balanced. They could possibly decrease by 1 hit the amount of hits it takes to kill the enemy, and slightly decrease firing rate as well.

 

Magnum: No real problem here, but it's a tad bit too accurate for a pistol, so they could make it a little less accurate for it's fire rate.

[Zanderos]

of course I'm serious. If their are complaints about all the weapons being to strong. Then how can is be unbalanced?

 

So, if I complain about the plasma pistol being overpowered, that means I'm right?

 

The whole point to constructively analyzing/complaining about a game is to logically arrive at a conclusion, supported by deductive or fact-supported evidence. If a dev team operated based on how many people complained about X item, that would be a pretty stupid game, don't you think?

 

Although, ironically, I think there's some truth in your statement. Personally, I think a lot guns in general are a little powerful, and adds to the already overly fast paced environment.

[DaviesGaming]

So, if I complain about the plasma pistol being overpowered, that means I'm right?

 

The whole point to constructively analyzing/complaining about a game is to logically arrive at a conclusion, supported by deductive or fact-supported evidence. If a dev team operated based on how many people complained about X item, that would be a pretty stupid game, don't you think?

 

Although, ironically, I think there's some truth in your statement. Personally, I think a lot guns in general are a little powerful, and adds to the already overly fast paced environment.

 

Yeah sure Devs dont want everyone to complain about their game. But surely if theirs complaints about every weapon it means that their is truly nothing to complain about.

[Zanderos]

Yeah sure Devs dont want everyone to complain about their game. But surely if theirs complaints about every weapon it means that their is truly nothing to complain about.

 

Again, so if I get killed by two guys, one of which is using a plasma pistol, and the other a DMR, then I come on the forums and complain that the plasma pistol is *** and overpowered, that means it's actually overpowered?

 

Like I said, there has to be a certain rationale behind the complaints, or they mean nothing. It's how logical the conclusions are that truly matters as far as true balance goes.

[Flippant Sol]

I find myself not enjoying the mutliplayer of this game very much and the main reason is DMR. The gun is too strong and leads to quick unenjoyable combat. DMR fights are usually 2 people side stepping going shot for shot until 1 of them gets 4 hits to the head in a row, it is very dull doing this every couple of minutes. Another issue with the DMR is how easily a single person can pick a player off across the map. Half of my deaths in Big Team Infitity slayer involve me being gunned down across the map by 1 or 2 players with the DMR which is very frustrating. I realize the game has only been out for a couple of days and changes will be made. I would enjoy seeing more playlist that involve no prescion weapons at spawn and that encourage greater close quarters combat. The DMR could use a slight damage reduction as well or just be taken out as a starting weapon choice, the BR should really be the only prescion weapon at start.

http://www.343industries.org/forum/topic/17118-too-many-newbies-using-the-battle-rifle/ Me and you are direct nemesis.

[Pr0larbear]

The people that want the BR back to 4shot kills... Stupidest idea i've ever heard.

1. You're complaining about the DMR being OP and think it requires a nerf. Lets trade this OP weapon for that one instead so we can relive halo 3!

2. You'll end up complaining about the BR being OP after as it will do everything the DMR did just faster.

3. This will essentially turn halo 4 into halo 3 again. The gun used 99% of the time was the BR. There was no diversity in weapon preferences because the BR just outshined everything so easily at all ranges. This includes long range or did you all just happen to forget?

 

At this rate just reskin the DMR with the BR model and give it lightrifle scope damage.

[snaker1323]

I want to stop and say that personally i think all the weapons are fine. The guns are good for their ranges but crap for the others for example:

DMR: good long range, ok medium, bad short BR: good medium, ok long, bad short AR: good short, ok medium, bad long Pistol: good short, ok medium, bad long

 

Each gun has its weaknesses and can be countered by using planned tactics. For example using cover to not get killed by a hard hit from the dmr. Or killing the person with the close range gun before they can get to you.

 

Well that is my opinion.

[TornadoFlame]

dmr is a mini sniper :/ don't know how to fix it i use a br. on big maps its dmr but i feel like why do we need a sniper theres a dmr... Isnt the dmr supposed to be a version of the br?

[KinetiKz]

The DMR is the only balanced gun in the game in terms of an "Assault Rifle" category'd gun. The Light Rifle, DMR, and Battle Rifle are your 3 weapons of choice that should every be considered. The Light Rifle takes more shots when not scoped in, less when scoped in; get rid of it. The Battle Rifle is more overpowered than the DMR, and here is why:

 

Although they take the same amount of shots, with and without scope, they are not the same.

 

(I realize that the BR is supposed to be better at a short range, and the DMR is supposed to be better at a long range -- which weapon you use for THIS reason should vary on the map, the gametype, and your playstyle I suppose...)

 

But...Here's why...

 

Let's say there are 2 players going into a 1v1 BR/DMR fight. Player 1 is your average Halo player n00b, where as Player 2 is a professional Halo player that is not such a rookie. Both players are using the DMR with standard settings, everything is normal. Player 1 and Player 2 both hit eachother 4 times apiece. Each player is now 1 shot away (in the head) from dying. Player 2, being more skilled, hits the 5th shot in the head, whereas Player 1 hit Player 2 in the shoulder.

 

^^^In this situation, Player 2 is awarded the kill, as he should be, for having more "skill", and walks away a "weakened-1shot".

 

In the other way around, Player 1 and Player 2 are both using a Battle Rifle. Both players have again hit eachother in the body 4 times, remaining a headshot away from being awarded a kill. On the 5th shot, Player 2 again hits Player 1 in the head; however, this time, Player 1 has (with his 3 bullets, since battle rifle's shoot 3 bullets in comparison to the DMR's 1) has hit Player 2 in the shoulder, the neck, and the shoulder. In this situation, both players are awarded a kill, and a trade occurs.

 

^^^In this situation, Player 2 and Player 1 are both awarded a kill, but it is not based off of "skill".

 

I know there is not near as much "spray, spread, swiping", whatever you would like to call it, as there was in Halo 3, but nonetheless, there is still a "spread".

 

I realize that none of these guns will be changed in anyway, and I realize also that it's all there for fun and will remain constant, so people's discussions and complaints are irrelevant, but I figured I would throw these facts out there for those who seem to be upset about these DMR/BR/LR discussions.

 

All in all, don't use the Light Rifle, if you're playing a close range map with lots of hallways, use the BR, otherwise use the DMR.

 

Over all, if you can scope in 24/7 [which you shouldn't be able to], use the LR; but the BR is still the best "Assault Rifle" type gun in the game, for the reasons stated above; unfortunately.

 

<3