Skill Rank Desicions and Thoughts!

[Death Panda x]

Bump

[Real Talk]

I would have liked to see a skill system where both K/D and W/L are calculated but if I had to pick one over the other it would be K/D.

 

Mainly because a lot of the times some teamates just get backpacked through entire games, why should they be ranked highly only because they have a team that carries them?

 

And as Panda said before a lot of player play solo and get paired up with randoms, which is my case right now since not a lot of my friends play H4.

[ptrack]

I would have liked to see a skill system where both K/D and W/L are calculated but if I had to pick one over the other it would be K/D.

 

Mainly because a lot of the times some teamates just get backpacked through entire games, why should they be ranked highly only because they have a team that carries them?

 

And as Panda said before a lot of player play solo and get paired up with randoms, which is my case right now since not a lot of my friends play H4.

But the thing is, this person may be rewarded by getting backpacked in one game, but as soon as he/she find a team that isn't good enough to backpack him/her, or as soon as he/she goes against a team of 3-4 players in a party, then the odds are, this person is going to lose. In turn, he'll end up getting punished for being a random or for being poor in skill. Not to mention, this said "bad kid" could be an excellent team player when it comes to objective based games by putting shots on people that need shooting, or keeping a flag alive, throwing the ball off the edge, etc. When you start getting to higher levels, you realize that the "bad kids" aren't completely bad. What i mean, is that they have enough experience with the game to be at that level as well as having enough experience to know the maps, spawns, smart plays, etc. No, people should not be rewarded for having good games. Kevin Durant can have over half of OKC's points, or Calvin Johnson can have every touchdown for Detroit, but that alone doesn't make them win. I could play lights out as a random and lose, but it wouldn't bother me (i'd probably get mad at my teammates, but obviously we didn't deserve the win). This gives me an incentive to find players that are good enough to win that i can party up with. This is where your friends list and the GameBattles forums come in handy.

 

Right now, my K/D is slowly dropping in H4 because i play a lot of regicide trying to get as many kills as possible without worrying about deaths (since that's what FFA is). Then i'll go into infinity slayer or slayer pro, and try to challenge people that have better teamwork than me. It just doesn't work out that way, and it never will since these are TEAM based games. I may not have very good teammates, but the least I could do is stay with them or not get overconfident with my skill (since i know i can take most people in this game in a 1 on 1). I shouldn't be rewarded for knowing i'm good but playing sloppy. And like i said, i can still have GREAT games where i play lights out and lose because my teammates play sloppy. If they don't know how to play the game as a team, then I shouldn't be rewarded.

 

I hate to get political, but I feel like this game and many people on this forum are catering towards "socialism" (reward me for this, this, this, and this even though i didn't come out succesful). That's like saying, "Hey government, give my private business money for trying to succeed but failing."

 

Here's the way I see myself: I'm an entrepreneur that takes a risk when entering the market to earn a profit. If i fail, i'll have ended up wasting a lot of time and money when I could have worked with/for someone else who has offered me a very good salary (as good, if not better than the one i hoped to get out of my own business). This should be the mindset of anyone who plays this game: you don't have to go it alone, but if you feel like you can come out on top, go for it. if not, work with someone that can get you to the top. don't expect handouts for knowing how good you are, because in the real world, if being as good as you can possibly be doesn't work, then you fail. It's like starting a business without hiring employees because you think you can tackle the obstacles. What's a business without employees?

 

Something to think about!

[Death Panda x]

 

But the thing is, this person may be rewarded by getting backpacked in one game, but as soon as he/she find a team that isn't good enough to backpack him/her, or as soon as he/she goes against a team of 3-4 players in a party, then the odds are, this person is going to lose. In turn, he'll end up getting punished for being a random or for being poor in skill. Not to mention, this said "bad kid" could be an excellent team player when it comes to objective based games by putting shots on people that need shooting, or keeping a flag alive, throwing the ball off the edge, etc. When you start getting to higher levels, you realize that the "bad kids" aren't completely bad. What i mean, is that they have enough experience with the game to be at that level as well as having enough experience to know the maps, spawns, smart plays, etc. No, people should not be rewarded for having good games. Kevin Durant can have over half of OKC's points, or Calvin Johnson can have every touchdown for Detroit, but that alone doesn't make them win. I could play lights out as a random and lose, but it wouldn't bother me (i'd probably get mad at my teammates, but obviously we didn't deserve the win). This gives me an incentive to find players that are good enough to win that i can party up with. This is where your friends list and the GameBattles forums come in handy.

 

Right now, my K/D is slowly dropping in H4 because i play a lot of regicide trying to get as many kills as possible without worrying about deaths (since that's what FFA is). Then i'll go into infinity slayer or slayer pro, and try to challenge people that have better teamwork than me. It just doesn't work out that way, and it never will since these are TEAM based games. I may not have very good teammates, but the least I could do is stay with them or not get overconfident with my skill (since i know i can take most people in this game in a 1 on 1). I shouldn't be rewarded for knowing i'm good but playing sloppy. And like i said, i can still have GREAT games where i play lights out and lose because my teammates play sloppy. If they don't know how to play the game as a team, then I shouldn't be rewarded.

 

I hate to get political, but I feel like this game and many people on this forum are catering towards "socialism" (reward me for this, this, this, and this even though i didn't come out succesful). That's like saying, "Hey government, give my private business money for trying to succeed but failing."

 

Here's the way I see myself: I'm an entrepreneur that takes a risk when entering the market to earn a profit. If i fail, i'll have ended up wasting a lot of time and money when I could have worked with/for someone else who has offered me a very good salary (as good, if not better than the one i hoped to get out of my own business). This should be the mindset of anyone who plays this game: you don't have to go it alone, but if you feel like you can come out on top, go for it. if not, work with someone that can get you to the top. don't expect handouts for knowing how good you are, because in the real world, if being as good as you can possibly be doesn't work, then you fail. It's like starting a business without hiring employees because you think you can tackle the obstacles. What's a business without employees?

 

Something to think about!

 

I agree completely. Spot on man.

[niknakpattywak1]

If you ever plan on actually getting a 50 you know that you need a TEAM. Party up with you friends or find some good people. If you play with randoms you never going to get to 40+. And if you Can't find friends to play with, play lone wolves.

 

 

I have to respectfully disagree. I was able to get to mid 40s in Halo 3 playing with a bunch of randoms. A lot of times I took some losses until I found a good team and then I was able to win and rank up. All aspects of the game should be taken into affect. If you go +15 in a game you lose, you should still be rewarded for your rank the same as someone on the winning team with the exact same stats. If you credit other things like assists and flag captures, it'll reward the team player even more. I don't like the idea of rewarding skill points for the winning team, this shouldn't have an affect on a PERSONAL skill rank.

[ptrack]

I have to respectfully disagree. I was able to get to mid 40s in Halo 3 playing with a bunch of randoms. A lot of times I took some losses until I found a good team and then I was able to win and rank up. All aspects of the game should be taken into affect. If you go +15 in a game you lose, you should still be rewarded for your rank the same as someone on the winning team with the exact same stats. If you credit other things like assists and flag captures, it'll reward the team player even more. I don't like the idea of rewarding skill points for the winning team, this shouldn't have an affect on a PERSONAL skill rank.

 

that's what other playlists are for. don't go into MLG, Team Slayer, or Team Doubles as a random if you feel like you're good enough to win. Go into Lone Wolves, or SWAT, or Snipers where everyone is about as equally as good based on rank. I feel like you would change your mind if you read my previous post, granted it is long. i played as a random in Halo 3 since the game came out and didn't get a 50 until the population was miniscule, but you don't know how rewarding that 50 felt (especially being in MLG). see, i knew i was good enough to be a 50, but I didn't treat the game the same as a lot of 50s in MLG would. Most of the 50s in MLG were on teams (aka: pro teams, semi pro teams, etc) so they knew how to pull their weight as a team player with randoms (if they ever went in by themselves). and before you think that they don't go in by themselves, i have saved gameplay from halo 3 of me playing with Naded and Broly Bro (2 pro/semi players on my team) and Flamesword on the other team (by himself). Another game where i play with ElamiteWarrior (on my team by himself) and another game with Naded (by himself).

 

Getting a 50 from losing, regardless of how well you play, just doesn't sound nearly as rewarding.

 

You just have to read my other post too see what I'm getting at here. It makes a lot of sense, and it's not condemning your beliefs. It's just another way to look at the ranking system as a means of solely W/L.

[snqrls]

the idea behind being ranked by win/loss is that over time, and a lot of games, things even out, and you're actually rated by how much you contribute to a team. Granted it's not the best system, since it takes a while to sync up with the player's actual skill, but it's the easiest to implement. As to other methods, that'd take a lot of experimentation to strike the right ballance between win/loss and actual performance.

 

On the otherhand, I do think an accurate system is best, and I would prefer it if your score can still influence the amount of change in true skill. For instance, if you had twice the performance value of anyone else on your team and you still lose, you shouldn't be rewarded for cleaning up after them, but if you did contribute a disproportionately large amount, there should be some understanding of context. It's just more emphasis has to be put on having a comparitively large assist count. It wouldn't be fair to count one-shot on a spartan as a kill or even more than a kill, but conversely if you're playing that role on the team and boosting their k/d's you deserve recognition for it. They do this to some extent with wingman and so on, but again, more in this case would be better.

[ValentineF]

I think thats Bull-S**T You dont only earn rank from MM anymore! SO plays into quite abit. I worked hard to get to SR-41 and i dont want to have to reset and loose all the armor and abilities i worked hard for! So what if someone's skill is better than another?! They work hard to get to where they are today. just like in game lvl caps people have skill caps. Some people just cant get any better. Skill means nothing to me. its all in fun. Bragging over skill is stupid and being reset a few levels and loosing sh** isnt worth it. And just because the poster above me or below me being better at the game they get to keep a certain rank then i do?! NO! Say i worked HARD to get to SR-80 worked nonstop 3 days because i had them off from work. This thing you mention pops up and i got to an SR-31?! WTF do i have i get from my work besides a lvl drop? Nothing. My self accomplishment would be in the trash.

Sorry for the long post but F that.

[Reptile]

Simply have two skill ratings: Lone Wolf and Team.

Obviously, Lone Wolf detects your personal skill, whereas Team detects your teamwork (eg. Assists, wins, saviours, etc)

[wjc3688]

1. Yes, because I want to have a day or two of cruising through the bottom ranks and trolling noobs again

 

2. Yes, because if you are going to do all the work to implement ranks anyways, why not let people see it?

 

3. No, because so many people have no choice but to play with randoms, and teamwork is non-existent in such scenarios. Of course K/D doesn't work for similarly obvious reasons as well. Really there is no way to satisfactorily resolve such contingencies, so I'm pretty apathetic as to how ranks actually end up being calculated.

[T O lR T A]

You know what they need, They need to have the system where if you left a game you lost experience points causing your rank to slowly decline if you kept leaving. Their are people who quit to protect their k/d and their are people who leave because they are about to face a good team. If people leave without getting punished, then the true game of Halo is slowly dying.