Captain Del Rio

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

I was wrong, The infinity didn't have shields but it is a complete military machine all rolled up in one, a base ship that could in earnest take on 3 capital class covenant ships in a point confrontation. It carries 8? destroyer class ships? as well as a crap load of sabre and sword fighters as well as it's pelican complement, not to mention it's on board defensive and offensive capabilities. With no shields it still wouldn't be worth taking on, it could deploy everything and lockup a requiem entrance all to it's self (which i think it has done).

 

Where was Del Rio's command staff other than Lasky and Palmer? Lasky didn't need to put boots on land and Palmer should of handled all ground ops not lasky himself.

 

Any navy boys on site? Do Xo's ever leave their ships?

 

Army guys XO's roll out all the time. But on that level? I think not. Not unless it is for a funeral ceremony or something. And even then it's EXTREMELY rare. No I think this game missed the actuality of it all. Lasky had no business down there and Palmers military prowess for conducting spartan missions should've stepped up. Also I think you're right in that he does have a military advisement board. The game didn't hit on that but it only makes sense that they would have.

 

About as far into it as they get was in the mission "Midnight" when Lasky says that higher ups didn't like how Del Rio abandoned the chief on Requiem and put Lasky in charge for the time being.

 

Again, not to divulge too much information as to not violate opsec but it is uncommon to see higher tiered officers with boots on ground in a combat zone. It's not a certainty I'm sure but for the most part you won't see someone of Lasky's rank riding around in a HMMV with no doors. Lol. That's just fictional entertainment. Kinda like hurt locker.

 

That's my experience from the Army side of the house.

 

EDIT : I don't mean that they aren't deployed, I mean they don't conduct routine missions and go on simple convoys. Not their style. That's what your enlisted soldiers are for. Case in point Master Chief is E9. The highest enlisted rank you can attain. This is a stretch but yes it is perfectly believable.

 

On that note... This is like what... 2556? I'm sure things are done a lot differently in the UNSC rather than today's military. ROE and EOF for a covenant or a flood or a forerunner is going to be much different than it would be for fallujah or Kandahar. Lol. I don't think humans in general would care too much to save any blood thirsty aliens, cold sentient robots, or space zombie abominations. Just saying.

[Azeraph]

500 years is a long time to envision, We can only truly go off of what we know of the canon and those few of you that have had combat or field experience. There's not much sci fi that has dealt with a scenario where there is a ship like the Infinity. It's about six k's in length so, would there be Marine core country? Spartan country? Jock country? and hell! i would put the bridge and opscenter or CIC in the center of the ship. Did you know that the Unsc designs for the ships are so reminiscent of a cheesy sci fi i used to watch from the 90's called Babylon 5 that i laughed my head off when i saw them in this game.

 

You ex forces know the system used now and the game does try to give it a sense of authenticity though it is just a game i'm sure a lot of people would like to see something close to or near enough of what we know for these days.

 

In your opinion how many marines would it take to take down one elite?

 

Actually what would Palmers rank be? She says she's the commander of all spartan teams but what hell is that? and shouldn't she have her xo and subordinates?

[Baeztoberfest]

500 years is a long time to envision, We can only truly go off of what we know of the canon and those few of you that have had combat or field experience. There's not much sci fi that has dealt with a scenario where there is a ship like the Infinity. It's about six k's in length so, would there be Marine core country? Spartan country? Jock country? and hell! i would put the bridge and opscenter or CIC in the center of the ship. Did you know that the Unsc designs for the ships are so reminiscent of a cheesy sci fi i used to watch from the 90's called Babylon 5 that i laughed my head off when i saw them in this game.

 

You ex forces know the system used now and the game does try to give it a sense of authenticity though it is just a game i'm sure a lot of people would like to see something close to or near enough of what we know for these days.

 

In your opinion how many marines would it take to take down one elite?

 

Actually what would Palmers rank be? She says she's the commander of all spartan teams but what hell is that? and shouldn't she have her xo and subordinates?

 

The marines I know? It'd take about one. Armed forces aren't the cannon fodder portrayed in video games to make Spartans look good. SF is beyond imagination how deadly they are... Them and seals. I mean, clearly.

 

And palmers rank? Well she still answers to someone... Being that the spartan IV's are a fairly new concept since the spartan III's... I'd say colonel? Maybe even general or major general? Or to put it where everyone understands, O6 or higher? Just a thought. It would depend on how many Spartans there were really.

[Grunt War Chief]

The UNSC Infinity is the human flagship equipped to the teeth. Here are the points I will make on behalf of Captain Andrew Del Rio.

 

Do we know they were equipped to the teeth that first time around during the campaign?

Plus the ship was damaged so he didnt think they could put up a proper fight.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

@Baez

 

I know that military officers do sometimes chew out enlisted personel and what not. That is a given, however most have good taste in their choice of venu for doing it (such as a private office). More to the point, there is a difference between loosing his composure and chewing somebody out. His reaction in this case seems to be more towards lost of control of himself instead of chewing John a new one. It was panicy (yes I know spelling sucks) and self motivated.

 

He does not give any impression what so ever that he is looking out for the crew or the ship. He does however give the impression (to me) that he just wants to save his own skin. That is what I am trying to say.

[Baeztoberfest]

@Baez

 

I know that military officers do sometimes chew out enlisted personel and what not. That is a given, however most have good taste in their choice of venu for doing it (such as a private office). More to the point, there is a difference between loosing his composure and chewing somebody out. His reaction in this case seems to be more towards lost of control of himself instead of chewing John a new one. It was panicy (yes I know spelling sucks) and self motivated.

 

He does not give any impression what so ever that he is looking out for the crew or the ship. He does however give the impression (to me) that he just wants to save his own skin. That is what I am trying to say.

 

I knew what you meant. I just had to disagree. And most officers are reserved and all that yes. I was just speaking from personal experience. He didn't have that demeanor to me is all. He seemed to be concerned about his equipment. Sure he didn't say how much each marine meant to him but I think he was thinking big picture. But all we have to go on was what we saw, not conjecture so unless motive is revealed in another title we will never know.

 

Also we knew it was armed to the teeth. Especially if you read the LE extra stuff. Also the MAC gun on THE LEVEL INFINITY? I hardly think it was the only one. It's capacity to harbor NUMEROUS frigates... When did we not know this? We knew it was the largest most badass interstellar flag ship before the game even came out. Um...?

[Azeraph]

I missed one point that will void most of my previous content, Del Rio didn't have any intel on whether the Didact could use that invasive scan on his ship again and he did state that the ship couldn't take another "Punture"? The way they scripted it is quite masterfully done. On one hand he can't be faulted for not trying to get his ship out of a death trap that in all earnest was complete enemy held territory, 2nd, The Covenant forces attacking his ship would've been a surprise and a forerunner installation that was hostile to humans. Zero intel on enemy numbers and resources and an unknown forerunner threat and his ship run aground, if anything if he held any animosity towards the chief it would be over the the fact that he brought his ship in too close to requiem but again it comes down to not having any intel especially when they had become use to the fact that forerunner installations were generally friendly to humans.

 

I've been wondering if Del rio was a parankowsky plant all along, she after all is the great spider. Hood just hasn't been portrayed as a competent chest player and he has a sense of honour. In interdepartmental politics honour is the first thing to go.

 

This wasn't the first op for him and his ship was ship shape, she had gone through her shakedown trials and was the equivalent of the Bismarck when she finally set out for her first patrol, Now that was a ship! The british had no recourse but to take her out before she got out to open water and started moving around otherwise she would've been the Grim Reaper once she had her compliment of supprt ships backing her up.

[Baeztoberfest]

I missed one point that will void most of my previous content, Del Rio didn't have any intel on whether the Didact could use that invasive scan on his ship again and he did state that the ship couldn't take another "Punture"? The way they scripted it is quite masterfully done. On one hand he can't be faulted for not trying to get his ship out of a death trap that in all earnest was complete enemy held territory, 2nd, The Covenant forces attacking his ship would've been a surprise and a forerunner installation that was hostile to humans. Zero intel on enemy numbers and resources and an unknown forerunner threat and his ship run aground, if anything if he held any animosity towards the chief it would be over the the fact that he brought his ship in too close to requiem but again it comes down to not having any intel especially when they had become use to the fact that forerunner installations were generally friendly to humans.

 

I've been wondering if Del rio was a parankowsky plant all along, she after all is the great spider. Hood just hasn't been portrayed as a competent chest player and he has a sense of honour. In interdepartmental politics honour is the first thing to go.

 

This wasn't the first op for him and his ship was ship shape, she had gone through her shakedown trials and was the equivalent of the Bismarck when she finally set out for her first patrol, Now that was a ship! The british had no recourse but to take her out before she got out to open water and started moving around otherwise she would've been the Grim Reaper once she had her compliment of supprt ships backing her up.

 

Good observations. I agree.

[Bulls Red]

Captain Del Rio made me laugh with his rage. He should be in Halo 5 and die of a stroke from a temper tantrum.

[Baeztoberfest]

Captain Del Rio made me laugh with his rage. He should be in Halo 5 and die of a stroke from a temper tantrum.

 

Please stay on topic.

[SykoWolf]

All this aside, i dont believe we will see Del Rio again, he was kicked out of the Infinity for abandoning the Chief....

[Seeker of Truth]

He single handedly in most likelihood saved the crew of The Infinity

 

And by doing so put the entire human species, and probably many more species (such as the elites) at risk. Yeah, that's a great leader.

[Arctic Vortex]

Weird screaming raged aged men! Why not, it's what makes Halo, Halo, right?

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

And by doing so put the entire human species, and probably many more species (such as the elites) at risk. Yeah, that's a great leader.

 

He did what any good captain would have done. Not jeapordize an entire vessel and its crew to an unfamiliar forerunner planet against hostile covenant and an enemy with unknown military prowess. He didn't trust the instincts of an aging spartan and a decaying AI. The Chief still kicks *** don't get me wrong but to put it in perspective, regardless of what his military jacket looked like, he's still enlisted and takes all commands from higher.

[Seeker of Truth]

He did what any good captain would have done. Not jeapordize an entire vessel and its crew to an unfamiliar forerunner planet against hostile covenant and an enemy with unknown military prowess. He didn't trust the instincts of an aging spartan and a decaying AI. The Chief still kicks *** don't get me wrong but to put it in perspective, regardless of what his military jacket looked like, he's still enlisted and takes all commands from higher.

 

Yes, true, their word alone may not have been enough to convince everyone, obviously including him. Del Rio did what he thought was right, and as you have made obvious, he is not alone in his values. However I still believe trying to ensure the protection of the Infinity while putting many more lives at risk was still, arguably a coward's move, in my opinion. Arguably Del Rio was responsible for the deaths of everyone on Ivanoff Station and New Phoenix.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

Yes, true, their word alone may not have been enough to convince everyone, obviously including him. Del Rio did what he thought was right, and as you have made obvious, he is not alone in his values. However I still believe trying to ensure the protection of the Infinity while putting many more lives at risk was still, arguably a coward's move, in my opinion. Arguably Del Rio was responsible for the deaths of everyone on Ivanoff Station and New Phoenix.

 

Versus the lives of the infinity and everyone on board?

[medcsu]

Yes, true, their word alone may not have been enough to convince everyone, obviously including him. Del Rio did what he thought was right, and as you have made obvious, he is not alone in his values. However I still believe trying to ensure the protection of the Infinity while putting many more lives at risk was still, arguably a coward's move, in my opinion. Arguably Del Rio was responsible for the deaths of everyone on Ivanoff Station and New Phoenix.

 

I actually see your point on this. However, as I said many times (and won't bore anyone with repeating), from a military doctrine point, Del Rio made the correct call. The Didacts terrorist attacks could not be placed on Del Rio. Let's be honest, the Didact's attack(s) were nothing short of that either.

[The Director]

I actually see your point on this. However, as I said many times (and won't bore anyone with repeating), from a military doctrine point, Del Rio made the correct call. The Didacts terrorist attacks could not be placed on Del Rio. Let's be honest, the Didact's attack(s) were nothing short of that either.

You'd be wrong about that one.

 

Military Doctrine changes depending on which military it's applied to, and in this case (UNSC) he was removed from command immediately upon returning to Earth. This was BEFORE the Didact attacked either the station or Earth, which means that they removed him for conduct unbecoming of an officer (in this case cowardice).

[Baeztoberfest]

You'd be wrong about that one.

 

Military Doctrine changes depending on which military it's applied to, and in this case (UNSC) he was removed from command immediately upon returning to Earth. This was BEFORE the Didact attacked either the station or Earth, which means that they removed him for conduct unbecoming of an officer (in this case cowardice).

 

I remember this. They mentioned something to that effect when Lasky is talking to Chief on the mission Midnight.

[medcsu]

You'd be wrong about that one.

 

Military Doctrine changes depending on which military it's applied to, and in this case (UNSC) he was removed from command immediately upon returning to Earth. This was BEFORE the Didact attacked either the station or Earth, which means that they removed him for conduct unbecoming of an officer (in this case cowardice).

 

He was removed from his command based on "abandoning" the MC on Requiem. That is far from Cowardice and far from conduct unbecoming an officer. If anything, he was replaced for deriliction of duty but cowardice? I have never heard of such a removal of command for this in the service. I guess none of us could really know as we are all simply applying what happened to modern day military service and we do not have the UNSC UCMJ (equiv).

[The Director]

He was removed from his command based on "abandoning" the MC on Requiem. That is far from Cowardice and far from conduct unbecoming an officer. If anything, he was replaced for deriliction of duty but cowardice? I have never heard of such a removal of command for this in the service. I guess none of us could really know as we are all simply applying what happened to modern day military service and we do not have the UNSC UCMJ (equiv).

Warning, I'm now going WAAYYY to into it:

 

Actually, it was unclear as to why he was removed from command. And one thing that rarely changes about the military is the rules they go by. The three big ones are "Don't surrender unless you are told you can, don't run away, and don't help the enemy". As a matter of fact, those three things are actually outlined in the UCMJ. And the penalty for them can be death.

 

I understand that you are prior service. As am I. So you should know that they drill two articles of the UCMJ (not including the dress ones lol) into your head in training. Those are Articles 99 and 100. Article 99 actually outlines "running away", as a matter of fact it's the first one if I recall. The maximum penalty you can get for a breach of Article 99 is the death penalty. Before you say he wasn't running away, he was supposed to be returning MC to Earth (as he was ordered to), but he got all the way back to Earth without Master Chief. I am willing to bet it wasn't long after they left that they figured out Chief had left the Infinity, and yet he returned to Earth anyway. In a court martial, that would be proof enough of a violation of Article 99.

 

Also, no matter the circumstances, a senior officer chewing out (or screaming at) a senior NCO (which MC is a senior NCO by billet if not by rank) in front of junior officers and NCO's is considered conduct unbecoming. Which is article 133, if I recall. The fact of the matter is, once an officer is guilty of conduct unbecoming, any order he gives during the infraction is considered unlawful. We had a Lance Corporal in our battery use this during his own court martial to avoid punishment, and it worked because the Staff Sergeant who gave the order he was being Court Martialed for breaking cursed several times while giving the order, and called him names. Yes, as you pointed out, they do not necessarily use the UCMJ, but it's a fair bet they have something close to it, as Halo is Science Fiction, which is based on reality.

 

[Ramo 'Talusee]

Del Rio did right BY HIS CREW AND SHIP which is all fine and dandy, HOWEVER! Doing right by the crew meant endangering all of Mankind. If Chief had bended knee to the (pitiful excuse of a) Captain, when Didact got to Earth the casaulties would have been more than one entire city. Why its possible to say alot of the ships that were moving to engage the Vessel and several cities would have been lost trying to stop him, IF THEY COULD.

 

Note: The Infinity would have probably been destroyed attempting to stop the Didact in the scenario stated above, it being the most powerful ship present and all makes it the biggest target for the superior Forunner Vessel.

 

So with that said, forget the crew and the ship. Im certain UNSC would understand if the Infinity went down to save the entire Human Species. Del Rio didn't even give Chief a small team of those new ODSTs (I side with Hasley, they are not Spartans).

 

Now on the whole arrest Chief.

1) Good luck trying to stop him, those new ODSTs (the IVS) are half his size in their storm trooper suits.

2) As Hasley pointed out Spartan 2s weren't trained to be Military Assets they were trained to be the Protectors of Earth and her Colonies. Didact was going to kill every human being which is why Chief went to stop him.

3) The UNSC would have him released immediately and probably have had Del Rio fired for arresting the Man who practically saved the entire human race from the Covenant and then The Flood.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Ramo 'Talusee

[A71william]

Well Captain Del Rio was a pretty bad character.

He spent prettymuch all of his time really stressed out which honestly just screwed his character up.

I think Halo 5 should not have him!

Also you cannot really remove a spartan || from the military just like that.

Sure if they murdered an entire fleet of the UNSC because they were bored then ok...

[Baeztoberfest]

Warning, I'm now going WAAYYY to into it:

 

Actually, it was unclear as to why he was removed from command. And one thing that rarely changes about the military is the rules they go by. The three big ones are "Don't surrender unless you are told you can, don't run away, and don't help the enemy". As a matter of fact, those three things are actually outlined in the UCMJ. And the penalty for them can be death.

 

I understand that you are prior service. As am I. So you should know that they drill two articles of the UCMJ (not including the dress ones lol) into your head in training. Those are Articles 99 and 100. Article 99 actually outlines "running away", as a matter of fact it's the first one if I recall. The maximum penalty you can get for a breach of Article 99 is the death penalty. Before you say he wasn't running away, he was supposed to be returning MC to Earth (as he was ordered to), but he got all the way back to Earth without Master Chief. I am willing to bet it wasn't long after they left that they figured out Chief had left the Infinity, and yet he returned to Earth anyway. In a court martial, that would be proof enough of a violation of Article 99.

 

Also, no matter the circumstances, a senior officer chewing out (or screaming at) a senior NCO (which MC is a senior NCO by billet if not by rank) in front of junior officers and NCO's is considered conduct unbecoming. Which is article 133, if I recall. The fact of the matter is, once an officer is guilty of conduct unbecoming, any order he gives during the infraction is considered unlawful. We had a Lance Corporal in our battery use this during his own court martial to avoid punishment, and it worked because the Staff Sergeant who gave the order he was being Court Martialed for breaking cursed several times while giving the order, and called him names. Yes, as you pointed out, they do not necessarily use the UCMJ, but it's a fair bet they have something close to it, as Halo is Science Fiction, which is based on reality.

 

 

This was a pretty good read. And pretty spot on.

 

Del Rio did right BY HIS CREW AND SHIP which is all fine and dandy, HOWEVER! Doing right by the crew meant endangering all of Mankind. If Chief had bended knee to the (pitiful excuse of a) Captain, when Didact got to Earth the casaulties would have been more than one entire city. Why its possible to say alot of the ships that were moving to engage the Vessel and several cities would have been lost trying to stop him, IF THEY COULD.

 

Note: The Infinity would have probably been destroyed attempting to stop the Didact in the scenario stated above, it being the most powerful ship present and all makes it the biggest target for the superior Forunner Vessel.

 

So with that said, forget the crew and the ship. Im certain UNSC would understand if the Infinity went down to save the entire Human Species. Del Rio didn't even give Chief a small team of those new ODSTs (I side with Hasley, they are not Spartans).

 

Now on the whole arrest Chief.

1) Good luck trying to stop him, those new ODSTs (the IVS) are half his size in their storm trooper suits.

2) As Hasley pointed out Spartan 2s weren't trained to be Military Assets they were trained to be the Protectors of Earth and her Colonies. Didact was going to kill every human being which is why Chief went to stop him.

3) The UNSC would have him released immediately and probably have had Del Rio fired for arresting the Man who practically saved the entire human race from the Covenant and then The Flood.

 

I think del rios plan was solid. They went with the chiefs plan after all and that barely worked through chance really. But that's something he's got isn't it? Luck? All that aside (luck), del rio was following standard procedure. Did you know that in combat rather than let enemies capture valuable items on the battlefield our orders are to destroy them making them useless to the enemy? I'm not saying that this means the infinity is expendable. I'm saying this was the biggest UNSC flag ship ever constructed. It had importance. Letting it fall into enemy hands wasn't an option.

 

Orbiting a hostile planet not sending word to earth was not an option. Staying on requiem grounded was not an option. Given his choices he made the right decisions.

 

 

 

Yes, true, their word alone may not have been enough to convince everyone, obviously including him. Del Rio did what he thought was right, and as you have made obvious, he is not alone in his values. However I still believe trying to ensure the protection of the Infinity while putting many more lives at risk was still, arguably a coward's move, in my opinion. Arguably Del Rio was responsible for the deaths of everyone on Ivanoff Station and New Phoenix.

 

I think it's fair to say ivanoff station was doomed when they brought the composer aboard to begin with.

 

Del Rio did right BY HIS CREW AND SHIP which is all fine and dandy, HOWEVER! Doing right by the crew meant endangering all of Mankind. If Chief had bended knee to the (pitiful excuse of a) Captain, when Didact got to Earth the casaulties would have been more than one entire city. Why its possible to say alot of the ships that were moving to engage the Vessel and several cities would have been lost trying to stop him, IF THEY COULD.

 

Note: The Infinity would have probably been destroyed attempting to stop the Didact in the scenario stated above, it being the most powerful ship present and all makes it the biggest target for the superior Forunner Vessel.

 

So with that said, forget the crew and the ship. Im certain UNSC would understand if the Infinity went down to save the entire Human Species. Del Rio didn't even give Chief a small team of those new ODSTs (I side with Hasley, they are not Spartans).

 

Now on the whole arrest Chief.

1) Good luck trying to stop him, those new ODSTs (the IVS) are half his size in their storm trooper suits.

2) As Hasley pointed out Spartan 2s weren't trained to be Military Assets they were trained to be the Protectors of Earth and her Colonies. Didact was going to kill every human being which is why Chief went to stop him.

3) The UNSC would have him released immediately and probably have had Del Rio fired for arresting the Man who practically saved the entire human race from the Covenant and then The Flood.

 

Marines could've taken out the chief. Don't believe me? Crank Halo 3 up on legendary and shoot some marines. Go on. Lol. I'll wait...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What happened? Thought so. Marines are tough stuff.

[TheAncientGamer]

The man had his back against a wall. The Chiefs antics and direct disobedience put everyone at risk. He made a decision to protect everyone on board The Infinity. That is hardly the actions of a coward. He was only fired because his superiors were morons. Recklessly endangering your crew by pointlessly navigating into merky conditions is hardly befitting of any commander or captain. COUGH* Titanic COUGH*. No for all intents and purposes Captain Del Rio was a saint.

 

He single handedly in most likelihood saved the crew of The Infinity, but that's just speculation. What I can prove through fact and in game cinematics was that he was charged with command and he executed his duties superbly. He deserves to finish out the series more so than Cortana obviously.

 

My prediction is that he will in fact return as a major protagonist and save MC yet again when he returns.

 

Oh and to carry on further, nobody knew what the Didact was capable of. They had never met a forerunner before then. That had already been said.

 

At the end of the level Infinity the ship itself was able to fend off multiple Covenant cruisers and the Didacts ship while being completly imoble and vulnerable.

 

Lets not forget the Spartan Ops introdoction scene where the Infinity practically RAMMED a Covenant cruiser in half without taking hull damage.... and lets not forget the Infinity's primary weapons used on Midnight which opened a hull on a forerunner ship. The only reason it couldn't fight back was because the weapons were jammed when the Covenant hit it the moment they landed (or crashed and walked away without even a scratch) on Requiem.

 

Also... the chief learned what the didact wanted and learned how it functions. The Chief completly informed Del Rio of it... and he told the Chief that "whatever he thought he saw" couldn't be a reality and called him and Cortana, and I quote: "an aged spartan and a maltfunctioning A.I.".

 

Infact he seemed more disrespectfull towards him in a few circumstances like the when the Chief asked what was the assesment from the recon team... Del Rio completly acted like the kind of guy he does not want people to question him... infact the more I look at him the more I get the feeling he is just concerned with his military career.

 

Because if he cared AT ALL for his crew then WHY would he sent a scouting run in the middle of an attack on the ship?

 

Finally, when the Chief disobeyed and left Infinity, how did he endangered the crew? They were ordered NOT to let him leave the ship but they allowed.

 

Chief in no way endangered anyone with that move, the only exception being himself and Cortana.