Call of Halo - breaking down how 343 copied...

[rush0024]

And you could never elminate quitting mid game. No matter what it's going to happen. But the best way to deal with it is to implement a ranking system, and a harsh penalty for players who quit. Players will think twice before quitting then because they will not want to lose their rank. That's the best solution, not what they are doing now.

 

Joining in progress COULD still be used in a ranking system, although I don't think it would be needed. But games need to start even always. And joining in progress should only happen early in the game, not half way through or when the game is almost over.

[Saint Mudknot]

Never clamied that they did. What does make the game unbalanced is the following...

1. Perks

2. Special abilities that are not available to all players (Spercializations)

3. The so called matchmaking system that makes players play against other players that have played the game 3 times as much that have a way higher XP level.

4. Starting games uneven, having games finish uneven because players quitting to due no penalty. I rarley have a party of four or more so this is the case alot epecially if we are losing later in the games.

 

The Specializations are available to everyone, just not right away, and they only replace 1 of your perks. I still find myself using default more than the specializations, they arent that amazing, its really just more for gear in my eyes.

XP level doesnt rank the skill of a player so pairing a level 15 and a level 115 isnt a major concern, considering a lot of people level up mostly in Spartan Ops and that has no benefit to multiplayer skill.

Starting games uneven and joining in progress games was to help players who dont quit. Punishment doesnt stop quitters from quitting however you want to believe it, and if there was punishment for it people would be complaining about that too because "what if i need to answer the door and im gone too long"

[rush0024]

It was, but Reach wasn't very well regarded (at least as far as Matchmaking is concerned) because the systems were getting slightly archaic and the game needed to adapt. Which it did. It's a testament to how well 343 did that they can implement these systems and still make Halo feel like Halo.

 

In time if nothing is changed and Halo keeps going on like this, I think Halo 4 matchmaking will not be very well "regarded" either.

 

COD will keep going this way ------------------------------>

Halo will keep going the other way <------------------------------

 

I could be wrong. Only time will tell. But I do think the online population and matchmaking in Halo 4 will drop off like Halo Reach did.

 

343... if you want Halo to be special again... stick to what made Halo 1, 2, and 3 so great. Return Halo's MP back to it's roots. Which is a a strong competitive MP that is balanced and fair across the board. Don't worry about COD, let them self destruct in their own problems.

 

The Specializations are available to everyone, just not right away

 

Well that does not make for a balanced game. Everyone should have access to all the specializations from day 1. Period.

 

And I've never played against a level 80 because they played the campagn a million times or the OPs. They are a 80 because they have played the MP for 5 days vs 1 day from me. And obviously they are on a higher level of skill than me, and they should be from playing the game all day every day. When I play MP I want to play against players of simliar skill or expierence. That makes the games more competitive and fun. That's how it was in Halo 2 and 3, and that's what is should still be.

[Saint Mudknot]

HALO 1 had a great campaign, the first FPS on console since Bond64 to be fun to play with friends......HALO4 did this.

 

HALO2 had good online and changed a lot from CE, however had mass glitches that players abused. HALO2 was far from balanced, glitches like super bounce and BXB/BXR made people hate the game, if you couldnt get on board with the glitches you fell behind the rest of the community. And the campaign was ok, but also the shortest in the series.

 

HALO3 was a good successor to 2, and a lot of fun. Firefight is the reason for Spartan Ops so its good to see how thats evolved over time. However the BR was the primary weapon of choice for all games.....period. Thats why Bungie invented the DMR to avoid people just using the BR, and failed. thats why 343 was smart enough to put them all on a equal playing ground for people who want to use what.

 

HALO4 has breathed new life into the franchise, and even if you think its not as fun as the rest of the games, critics and fans alike have rejoiced in the games return to the feel of HALO with its new changes. It gotten higher scores than CoD, and the reason CoD is a more played game? more systems play it, more people to play. I might have a xbox, and you have a PS3 but we both have CoD.....its pop culture dude.

 

You cant really think HALO is doing that bad when they just had a successful launch, web series, and review on the first HALO made by microsofts inhouse team.....i think they have went above and beyond with the way majority of people are reacting....theres allways a sour apple to spoil the bunch tho

[rush0024]

Well I have been coming on these forums daily now just to check how people are reacting. There seem to be more people that are making posts that are unhappy with the game, peope who are starting to question the game, and people who are saying the game is too much to COD and that Halo copied vs people who are really happy with the game.

 

I stand by what I said, if changes are not made Halo 4 MP will die off like it did in Reach. And COD will continue to beat Halo every week over XBL.

[Real Talk]

Not claiming that COD invented anything. But your argument on that point doesnt discredit that FACT that Halo has copied off COD. Weather they were all COD's ideas or not it doesn't change anything. I understand that games copy off one another. But Halo wasn't some no name unsucessful game that needed a bunch of changes to compete. Halo was it's own game and was extrmelely successful in it's own way. It needed to keep the core structure that made the earlier games so special. They did not do this. Not saying they should have just keep everything the same and not changed anything. There are plenty of ways to evolve the game and to add to features to keep the game fresh but to also keep the structure in place.

 

And where is this skill ranking system in Halo 4 your talking about? Halo 4 has a progression XP system. Which means you earn XP no matter what. You never lose XP. It's not a ranking system man.

 

They pair you up based on their ranking system (that is not shown) not on the EXP system. Its as if in Halo 3 they had their matchmaking without showing the ranks. And CoD will eventually die out when the next fast paced shooter comes out that implements better and funner things.

 

People nowadays want things quickly. One of the reasons Sprint was added to Halo to speed gameplay. They dont want to slowly trot to where the action is they want to run there and get into the fight.

[rush0024]

They pair you up based on their ranking system (that is not shown) not on the EXP system. Its as if in Halo 3 they had their matchmaking without showing the ranks. And CoD will eventually die out when the next fast paced shooter comes out that implements better and funner things.

 

People nowadays want things quickly. One of the reasons Sprint was added to Halo to speed gameplay. They dont want to slowly trot to where the action is they want to run there and get into the fight.

 

Well if that's the case that system is broken because I consistently play against players who have played MP twice or even three times more than me, and we typically lose those games.

 

And I understand why sprinting is in the game. It does speed up the game and I don't have any issues with that.

[TonyY]

I have to agree with rush this game is not halo. it doesn't feel like halo and it doesn't play like halo. my biggest gripe about this game are the loadouts/armor abilities/and "perks". I've never played COD so I can't compare it to that, but judging by the masses halo's loadout system is similar to cods. I just don't understand why 343 went with this after so many people complained about aa's in reach and some people even quit playing and moved to another game or reverted back to H3. I mean why can you start with invis? seriously? on valhalla guy sitting on hill or on base with invis and snipes you get owned. overpowered in that situation and close quarters almost useless, it jams the radar so it gives away someone is around you with invis and move too fast while in invis your seen. same with promethian vision. you can have wetwork and just appear as an outline appearing as a friendly. useless why even have it? yes I realize not everyone will be wetwork or ues pro vision. they should have ditched the aa's and been done with it. it doesn't promote map movement anymore or working with a team anymore. I don't know why they had to COPY an IDEA that's POPULAR right now. so what try something new. at the very least they could have made jet packs/pro vision or invis ordanance drops options, or equipment scattered on the map.

 

And ever since the end of halo 3 maps have been on a serious downhill slide. how hard is it to make a good competitive map with flow? so what if it has pretty rocks water or trees? I'm not looking at that when I play the map. I want a fun competitive map that has key areas of battle. how can all you not complain about the maps?

 

Honestly I loved halo. I stood in line at midnight to get this game. but seriously rush has a point, since that night I have seen the playlists population go down severely. dont blame it on black ops either. I have plently of friends on my list that bought this game and just aren't on anymore/play a different game or the die hards went back to h3. alot of people just reject the idea of loadouts and crap maps that's a main thing that's killing this game.

 

anyone saying that if I or "the small group of people complaining" want things changed or want h3 to go back to h3, don't worry I will and at the same token this is just reach 2 wake up people it's just exectuted slightly better.

[LiQuid BioniX]

 

 

343... if you want Halo to be special again... stick to what made Halo 1, 2, and 3 so great. Return Halo's MP back to it's roots. Which is a a strong competitive MP that is balanced and fair across the board. Don't worry about COD, let them self destruct in their own problems.

 

I hope they do! I love the way matchmaking is right now, but I must say that the most fun I ever had was in Halo 3, and I'd love to recapture that same magic. I hope that CoD does self-destruct (because they will) and maybe those games will go in a different direction after all.

 

Also, I don't think I ever formally said welcome to the forums... so, welcome!

[Halogeek99]

Nuketown playlist is still up. Stop bull****ting.

 

You guys are right on many things but one; H4 does NOTcater to the casuals. Casuals can't put repeated headshots into moving targets at the rate H4 is requiring. Therefore they left week one. I'm absolutely SURE of this.

 

I think most people went to Bo2 btw. The crisis for a game like Halo is also a crisis for the 360. People play on smartphones these days. That's the big issue.

[DoctorB77]

Halo 4 does not feel like COD at all. Even if they implement ideas. The weapon unlocks are nothing in comparison to COD.

[rush0024]

I have to agree with rush this game is not halo. it doesn't feel like halo and it doesn't play like halo. my biggest gripe about this game are the loadouts/armor abilities/and "perks". I've never played COD so I can't compare it to that, but judging by the masses halo's loadout system is similar to cods. I just don't understand why 343 went with this after so many people complained about aa's in reach and some people even quit playing and moved to another game or reverted back to H3. I mean why can you start with invis? seriously? on valhalla guy sitting on hill or on base with invis and snipes you get owned. overpowered in that situation and close quarters almost useless, it jams the radar so it gives away someone is around you with invis and move too fast while in invis your seen. same with promethian vision. you can have wetwork and just appear as an outline appearing as a friendly. useless why even have it? yes I realize not everyone will be wetwork or ues pro vision. they should have ditched the aa's and been done with it. it doesn't promote map movement anymore or working with a team anymore. I don't know why they had to COPY an IDEA that's POPULAR right now. so what try something new. at the very least they could have made jet packs/pro vision or invis ordanance drops options, or equipment scattered on the map.

 

And ever since the end of halo 3 maps have been on a serious downhill slide. how hard is it to make a good competitive map with flow? so what if it has pretty rocks water or trees? I'm not looking at that when I play the map. I want a fun competitive map that has key areas of battle. how can all you not complain about the maps?

 

Honestly I loved halo. I stood in line at midnight to get this game. but seriously rush has a point, since that night I have seen the playlists population go down severely. dont blame it on black ops either. I have plently of friends on my list that bought this game and just aren't on anymore/play a different game or the die hards went back to h3. alot of people just reject the idea of loadouts and crap maps that's a main thing that's killing this game.

 

anyone saying that if I or "the small group of people complaining" want things changed or want h3 to go back to h3, don't worry I will and at the same token this is just reach 2 wake up people it's just exectuted slightly better.

 

I agree with you on the maps. Very disappointing with the Halo 4 maps. The old saying really applies here I think.... They just don't make them like they used too. I miss Midship and Lockout.

 

I hope they do! I love the way matchmaking is right now, but I must say that the most fun I ever had was in Halo 3, and I'd love to recapture that same magic. I hope that CoD does self-destruct (because they will) and maybe those games will go in a different direction after all.

 

Also, I don't think I ever formally said welcome to the forums... so, welcome!

 

Thank you. I'm getting older and older. I miss the Halo 2 days when I was in college and all my buddies were playing. I'm 27 now and I don't want to wait around another 3 years for them to bring out another Halo game. Fix Halo 4 NOW.

 

If you work for 343 and have some authority and you are reading this. STOP trying to be like other games. Halo does not need that. The first few Halo games were so innovative. Every other game should have been copying off Halo not the other way around. Your number 1 priority right now should be to get the ranking system out ASAP on the console. Then make the specializations available to everyone at all times (that or just get rid of them), and start every game with even teams. The key recipe here is balance and competitiveness. Get to work.

[VAN STR1FE]

call of halo, call of halo, this is call of halo: modern spartan!!!

 

gooo halo 2!! T_T

[mkeller25]

Some good points made in this thread.

 

While I don't agree with everything that Rush said, I agree with the general sentiment that Halo followed the money - the money being the long, long, long lines of CoD players and the type of game they respond to - and by respond to you know what I mean - $$$

 

I will concede that games need to evolve to stay competitive in the market. I will concede that some people probably even wanted the changes like join in progress and loadouts and perks and all that. What I will not concede:

 

1) Maps. The new maps are far, far, far and away inferior to previous iterations of the game. Rush said it before but I'll say it again. I miss Midship and Lockout. Those, with the original longest, may be my favorite maps of all time.

 

2) Unbalanced/unfair matches are good for the franchise. You'll never convince me that people that are level 1205398234 with additional perks is a good experience for the person on the other end of their rifle. You'll never convince me that starting a game 3v4 was the right move. You'll never convince me that players should be thrown into a match that is already in progress and they are losing 220-40. IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. As a matter of fact, I would argue that throwing more players into this sort of situation simply perpetuates the quitting cycle. When I join a game like that, I play for about 2 deaths and I go "oh, I see what you did here Halo. You put me in a position where I simply cannot succeed and I will have zero fun. Thank you for the zero fun experience. Thank you for wasting another 5-10 minutes of my time." When games are unfair, they are not fun for the inferior party. Fair gameplay was always one of the major tenets of the Halo multiplayer formula and they threw that out the window IMO.

 

3) Ranking system works/exists. I have not been on Halo waypoint to check ranking nor do I care to be to view the ranking - the idea to split the user between two systems and force them to go to Waypoint to even view it is absolutely moronic. The fact of the matter is I'm not going to believe a ranking until its visible in game and I can see an even distribution of ranking in the matches I play. Moreover, a ranking system is absolutely CRITICAL to the longterm viability of the game. When the game is a year old, or 2 years old, or whatever... whats to stop the system from matching up brand new players from grizzled veterans?

[Nmalthus]

the reason why Halo 4 is what it is now, is because...

 

A different company took the IP and made it better than any prior Bungie iteration. COD may sell more because #1 it is multi platform and caters to a vastly different community where as opposed to Halo which requires more skill and doesn't just feed you kills, in COD anyone can hop right in and do considerably well.

[rush0024]

Some good points made in this thread.

 

While I don't agree with everything that Rush said, I agree with the general sentiment that Halo followed the money - the money being the long, long, long lines of CoD players and the type of game they respond to - and by respond to you know what I mean - $$$

 

I will concede that games need to evolve to stay competitive in the market. I will concede that some people probably even wanted the changes like join in progress and loadouts and perks and all that. What I will not concede:

 

1) Maps. The new maps are far, far, far and away inferior to previous iterations of the game. Rush said it before but I'll say it again. I miss Midship and Lockout. Those, with the original longest, may be my favorite maps of all time.

 

2) Unbalanced/unfair matches are good for the franchise. You'll never convince me that people that are level 1205398234 with additional perks is a good experience for the person on the other end of their rifle. You'll never convince me that starting a game 3v4 was the right move. You'll never convince me that players should be thrown into a match that is already in progress and they are losing 220-40. IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. As a matter of fact, I would argue that throwing more players into this sort of situation simply perpetuates the quitting cycle. When I join a game like that, I play for about 2 deaths and I go "oh, I see what you did here Halo. You put me in a position where I simply cannot succeed and I will have zero fun. Thank you for the zero fun experience. Thank you for wasting another 5-10 minutes of my time." When games are unfair, they are not fun for the inferior party. Fair gameplay was always one of the major tenets of the Halo multiplayer formula and they threw that out the window IMO.

 

3) Ranking system works/exists. I have not been on Halo waypoint to check ranking nor do I care to be to view the ranking - the idea to split the user between two systems and force them to go to Waypoint to even view it is absolutely moronic. The fact of the matter is I'm not going to believe a ranking until its visible in game and I can see an even distribution of ranking in the matches I play. Moreover, a ranking system is absolutely CRITICAL to the longterm viability of the game. When the game is a year old, or 2 years old, or whatever... whats to stop the system from matching up brand new players from grizzled veterans?

 

And therein, as the Bard would tell us, lies the rub.

[Caboose The Ace]

so many peaple conplaing see the big piture halo has to ************ evlolve spelling error

[WonderWombat]

343... if you want Halo to be special again... stick to what made Halo 1, 2, and 3 so great. Return Halo's MP back to it's roots. Which is a a strong competitive MP that is balanced and fair across the board. Don't worry about COD, let them self destruct in their own problems.

What made the first one great was the story. Any person could be amused by the gameplay, but what made it interesting was the story. Halo 2 and 3 did not quite follow suit here, Halo 2 more so than 3. Halo 4 is really invested with the story, but unlike Combat Evolved they didn't allow for everyone to follow along.

 

Now coming from a multiplayer standpoint, Halo has always been "meh". This is because it was meant to sort of be a bonus thing to the actual campaign. But a focused group of people have always enjoyed this "meh" for whatever reason. 343 tried to expand beyond this and broaden the crowd. And common sense says make the smart decision instead of the risky one. So they made an appropriate business decision and implemented ideas from the most popular games and added it into their game. So instead of having many people complain about this new "bad" multiplayer they now have a handful of people complaining about how it is similar to a game they hate because of its popularity.

 

What I want 343 to do is give the multiplayer less attention. In doing so they can strengthen their story and gameplay, while the multiplayer falls back to a Halo 3 sort of status and just be "meh" again so the small crowd can enjoy it.

[TonyY]

What made the first one great was the story. Any person could be amused by the gameplay, but what made it interesting was the story. Halo 2 and 3 did not quite follow suit here, Halo 2 more so than 3. Halo 4 is really invested with the story, but unlike Combat Evolved they didn't allow for everyone to follow along.

 

Now coming from a multiplayer standpoint, Halo has always been "meh". This is because it was meant to sort of be a bonus thing to the actual campaign. But a focused group of people have always enjoyed this "meh" for whatever reason. 343 tried to expand beyond this and broaden the crowd. And common sense says make the smart decision instead of the risky one. So they made an appropriate business decision and implemented ideas from the most popular games and added it into their game. So instead of having many people complain about this new "bad" multiplayer they now have a handful of people complaining about how it is similar to a game they hate because of its popularity.

 

What I want 343 to do is give the multiplayer less attention. In doing so they can strengthen their story and gameplay, while the multiplayer falls back to a Halo 3 sort of status and just be "meh" again so the small crowd can enjoy it.

 

I disagree. I mean, don't get me wrong I've played the campaigns and enjoyed playing all of them. I really enjoy and get into the story also. I'm not really a fan of paying 60 dollars for a game, play the campaign and basically be done with the game. I beat halo 4 campaign on legendary in 3 days, while I wish it were alittle longer, I was satisfied with gameplay/story. having the multiplayer provides that replayability. without it, there isn't much of a point to purchase the game. I've never played cod and from what people are saying, probably never will if both cod and halo are similar with loadouts ect. I think there are plenty of people out there that think this game was "bad" from a multiplayer view and just left. period. they are not coming to this site. they are not on the game in the lobby complaining. they just left. The people on this site that are complaining about things are a small portion of a larger picture. I am not complaining about halo 4 being similar to cod because it is popular. I've never played it. however based off people saying it is similar with the loadouts ect. I feel it's something I wouldn't enjoy kinda how I am not enjoying this game much just like halo reach. The loadouts and gameplay are just cheap and boring. It gets stale real quick. to me, halo 4 has followed suit with halo reach, that being "meh". where as halo 2,3, had exciting competitive games, great gameplay/strategy, along with enjoyable maps.

[rush0024]

Halo is what is is today because of the MP. If you want to good single player story then go play Mass Effect. If you actually think that the story is the most important part and MP needs less attention then you need to be slapped. Really hard.

[Bureiku]

if you dont like a game then dont talk about it, plain and simple, and halo needed to evolve anyways due to how the formula was some may have preferred it but in the end it was the right thing to do to keep halo going on as strong as possible.

[TonyY]

if you dont like a game then dont talk about it, plain and simple, and halo needed to evolve anyways due to how the formula was some may have preferred it but in the end it was the right thing to do to keep halo going on as strong as possible.

 

Halo needed to evolve because they had a successful formula that worked? That doesn't make much sense.... If halo stays on this so called "evolutionary" path with armor abilities and loadouts/perks, I won't be buying halo anymore. Its so easy and boring using them and taking advantage of them in my favor it's ridiculous.

 

Keep halo strong as possible?? What?? First 2 days had 400,000 and 410,000 people playing. Now? 90-100,000. People left because not satisfied. Halo 3 social slayer alone had 30000 people years after its release and halo reach. That's 1/3 of this games population after one month....

[Twisted Oracle]

All I get from this is that you like to complain about things....

[TonyY]

Not really. Can you actually defend that the maps are great or why the population is low already? Simple questions really. Don't get me wrong I do like things about this game which I've stated in previous posts. I guess I was let down with apects of MM and I'm trying to understand why people think its so great.

[Bureiku]

Halo needed to evolve because they had a successful formula that worked? That doesn't make much sense.... If halo stays on this so called "evolutionary" path with armor abilities and loadouts/perks, I won't be buying halo anymore. Its so easy and boring using them and taking advantage of them in my favor it's ridiculous.

 

Keep halo strong as possible?? What?? First 2 days had 400,000 and 410,000 people playing. Now? 90-100,000. People left because not satisfied. Halo 3 social slayer alone had 30000 people years after its release and halo reach. That's 1/3 of this games population after one month....

honestly, people that hate halo 4 can just leave halo behind because they dont like the evolution, and many people liked the change, even major league gaming liked the evolution i myself liked the change, sure there are some things i dont like but in the end i liked it in many categories, and halo 4 still kept its eye towards the campaign, they added a new flavor to halo which many people like.