DMR > BR in every way :o

[D-38 Boss]

*Ahem* Assault Rifle. That is all.

[AfricanBatman]

Buffing the BR would further unbalance the game

 

either DMR has to go or RoF nerf.

[Dawn Wolf]

I don't really agree that the BR works much better up close, since if the DMR player has the skill to often hit the 5 shots up close anyway, how can you get better than that?

 

But what IS true, is that the BR can really help pick up kills. Quickly spraying weak targets more commonly gets the kill before he can get away than with the DMR. Sometimes. It's pretty satisfying when people die mid burst.

[Benchimus]

Buffing the BR would further unbalance the game

 

either DMR has to go or RoF nerf.

If anything, (slight) RoF nerf on the DMR. An ever so slight one tho. Just enough that only when both are fired with perfect accuracy at their maximum fire rate will the BR win. This will tip engagements in favor of the BR but only on smaller maps but only slightly as most players do not have perfect accuracy. To those suggesting making the BR 4 shot... no. Not only would it be better than the other precision rifles at anything other than sniper range but it would begin destroying all the other weapons worse than it already does. AR/storm rifle/suppressor/ etc. would all become useless at anything beyond sword range. Not that I use any of those enough to care but arent they their to complete the sandbox and help out lesser players? And I am not a BR fan by any means. This is all coming from someone who uses the DMR on all maps, in all modes.

[Bloody Initiate]

The fact that the DMR outperforms most guns at most ranges is not a problem with the DMR, it's a problem with most guns.

 

The BR sucks. There is plenty of information to back it up, and in fact there is ONLY information to back it up.

 

It has a slower kill time, fewer kills per clip, and fewer kills per spawn (fewer kills in a clip means your two reloads accomplish less and less, because you're just wasting time putting more bullets in a gun that doesn't use them properly).

 

It wastes 2 bullets per kill, that waste is mandatory, and outside of SWAT this fantasy people have of just wiping out a crowd of one-shots with1-2 bursts is exactly that, a fantasy. With the BR you're always reloading, so all those kills are gone before you can get that dream burst.

 

It should be 4-shot, that simple change makes all of its problems go away. Do you know why? Because it was designed to be 4-shot from the start. 343 didn't decrease its clip size, they decreased the clip size on the DMR, but not on the BR. They kept the BR as similar to its original design as possible, but changed the one aspect that held it all together: A 4-shot kill.

 

Even if people got their pointless nerf to the DMR, the BR would still suck. You'd just have one more sucky gun. The BR was built around that 4-shot kill, taking it away devastated that weapon. It wouldn't bother me so much if they'd adjusted its other numbers, but they didn't. It also wouldn't bother me if the nerf was at all necessary, helpful, or smart in any way. Instead it was just them destroying a gun for no reason.

 

In a proud tradition 343 decided they should fix what wasn't broken; no, actually, they tampered with something that worked perfectly and broke it with their clumsiness, never for a moment realizing that they were doing the wrong thing.

[ProudDrunkIrish]

I have to say I had originally preferred the BR in mid range contest i.e. 4 v 4, but having completed the weapon mastery for it I have been using the DMR in what I classed as BR rounds recently and I cannot notice any decline in my gameplay..

I may have to say that the BR advantage may be more in my head than in reality (plaing a lot of BTB so gettin very used to DMR, could be a reason). The DMR needs to be a shot extra or slower fire rate, either one of these or else time to buff the BR and make it a 4 shot..

I would say nerf the DMR as buffing the BR will result in AR users suffering to it in mid-close range combat.

[Jan]

The only thing I feel that 343i should do is revert their matchmaking ways back to previous Halo's. This is because back then it required skill and tactics, now this is a lot like COD and doesn't need hardly any shots to kill anyone. This, is most likely to make it a quicker tempo for the game. However, as a result of this I have gone back to Halo Reach.

[Bloody Initiate]

Made a custom gametype to see how the BR performed with a 10% damage boost. It performed perfectly. I could not find a way to accurately measure how many bullets were actually required to drop the shield/finish the kill though (It was a 4 shot kill, but I don't know how many bullets were doing what on the last burst). I could have hopped into theatre to count but I didn't. I got the feeling it was dropping shields with 10 bullets and sending the last 2 to the head, couldn't be sure though.

 

In other news:

 

The shield recharge delay felt much better at 4 seconds instead of 6, in fact while I haven't gone back to check I suspect that's where it was in previous games, just based on my memory.

 

The 10% damage boost made the BR AND the Carbine perform more closely to balanced. I think an easy fix to the carbine is to give it this boost, its high RoF will keep the buff from trimming too much time off its kill time (Since a high RoF means a small amount of time per shot, saving one shot doesn't save much time, but it does save ammo). The BR's RoF might save too much time on kills though, felt more like a Halo 2 BR than a Halo 3 BR. If I knew how the last burst performed I could know for sure, but I suspect it actually needs closer to an 8% damage boost than a 10. The idea being that it should take 11 bullets to drop the shields and the 12th makes the headshot.

 

The 10% damage boost made other weapons perform far too well. The boltshot is indisputably too strong with the boost, and most of the fully automatic weapons set up a melee way too fast. I think if you really want to feel what Halo of Duty 4: Smack Ops might be like you should try a custom with a 10-20% damage boost, because it definitely started feeling way too easy to kill people.

 

I think the head hitboxes are bigger than previously. Either that or the people talking about bullet magnetism have accidentally stumbled upon something (I say accidentally because they seem largely unaware of the assistance they've been receiving from the very first Halo). It seems high chest shots are frequently all you need. Makes sense with the BR due ot the recoil, but also noticed it on the DMR.

 

I didn't test the boost's effect on the light rifle, which was actually an accident. I had a loadout set up for it and everything, just forgot to check it.

[Death Panda x]

Making the DMR a 6 shot kill is not a good idea at all, it has nothing do with "players with good aim will make it work" it has to do with you slowing the kill time of a long range weapon. Even if you land every shot, you're giving the target more time to get away, which they do A LOT at long range now. The DMR is just fine as it is, nerfing it is a terrible idea. The problem is not that the DMR is too good, it's that the BR isn't good enough.

 

How about we look at some numbers no one else is looking at? Most people just focus on kill times.

 

Perhaps people don't realize just how terrible they made the BR: It has a 5 shot kill now, which means it takes 15 bullets to kill someone, you have to spend 3 bullets on the last 3-shot burst to shoot them in the head, even though you only need one of those bullets. However they did NOT increase its magazine size or the amount of ammo in a clip, you still have only 36 rounds (12 3-shot bursts). You previously had exactly 3 kills in the clip assuming perfect accuracy, now you have 2.4. You have to reload two shots into the third guy, he still has half his shield, and now you're going to die.

 

The DMR also suffered a clip-size reduction (Another stupid move I'll never understand or forgive). It too previously had exactly 3 kills in the clip, assuming perfect accuracy. Now it has 2.8. You have to reload right before finishing the third guy off, or switch to a headshot secondary, or let a teammate clean them up, or drop a 'nade for them so you can laugh in the afterlife, but they're at least one-shot. Even if you die, did you notice how many more options you had?

 

You may think that this applies only rarely, but have you perhaps noticed the frequency of the "Relaod This" medal? I bet you get it a lot more on BR users than on DMR users, I know I do. I'll also bet you get it a lot more in Halo 4 than you ever did in Halo: Reach. Again, I know I do.

 

They should never have nerfed the clip sizes, but that's a different argument. The fact is they DID nerf the clip sizes, very stupidly, but they did. AND THEN they make the BR a 5 shot kill, also very stupidly, because it becomes a weapon that simply has fewer kills in it than other guns. It just fails to perform, while everyone else is doing their job. They hit the BR from two sides in this game, and while its kill time is only a tenth of a second slower or something, it's overall killing potential is lower too, combining with the other nerfs it becomes a gun that falls farther and farther behind.

 

My guess is 343 hated all the BR fanboys and such from Halo 2 and 3, I don't blame them because often the biggest fans of a thing can make you hate that thing, but the fact is the weapon worked then. It doesn't now.

 

I didn't factor in clip size, though I don't really see it as much of a problem because of the perk dexterity. If you don't use dexterity you at a HUGE disadvantage. But I would rather have a bigger clip size than a perk that you forced to use (like stopping power is MW2). So you they should definately buff the clip size.

 

Whether they buff the BR or Nerf tht DMR it is not going to be that hard either way. All the comments in this thread mention multiple ways that they could fix the problem. The real issue here is if 343 is going to do anything at all, and judging by the way that they haven't even attemp to fix any of the MANY other problems with this game, I fear that they won't do anything at all; since they're to busy making map packs so kids buy it so they make $. And I feel that's how most companies are doing things now, and they have been since 08'. Now it's just a bunch of greedy EAs.

[Benchimus]

The fact that the DMR outperforms most guns at most ranges is not a problem with the DMR, it's a problem with most guns.

 

The BR sucks. There is plenty of information to back it up, and in fact there is ONLY information to back it up.

 

It has a slower kill time, fewer kills per clip, and fewer kills per spawn (fewer kills in a clip means your two reloads accomplish less and less, because you're just wasting time putting more bullets in a gun that doesn't use them properly).

 

It wastes 2 bullets per kill, that waste is mandatory, and outside of SWAT this fantasy people have of just wiping out a crowd of one-shots with1-2 bursts is exactly that, a fantasy. With the BR you're always reloading, so all those kills are gone before you can get that dream burst.

 

It should be 4-shot, that simple change makes all of its problems go away. Do you know why? Because it was designed to be 4-shot from the start. 343 didn't decrease its clip size, they decreased the clip size on the DMR, but not on the BR. They kept the BR as similar to its original design as possible, but changed the one aspect that held it all together: A 4-shot kill.

 

Even if people got their pointless nerf to the DMR, the BR would still suck. You'd just have one more sucky gun. The BR was built around that 4-shot kill, taking it away devastated that weapon. It wouldn't bother me so much if they'd adjusted its other numbers, but they didn't. It also wouldn't bother me if the nerf was at all necessary, helpful, or smart in any way. Instead it was just them destroying a gun for no reason.

 

In a proud tradition 343 decided they should fix what wasn't broken; no, actually, they tampered with something that worked perfectly and broke it with their clumsiness, never for a moment realizing that they were doing the wrong thing.

So you would like for the BR to not only be closer in performance to the DMR and better than the carbine in all instances but for it to further destroy all the other weapons? Buffing the BR to 4 shot would definitely make it the choice on all 4v4 maps while leaving some reason to pick the DMR in BTB but your only further weakening every other non power weapon, limiting viable options. And isnt making a certain weapon more of an option the purpose of this thread? Slight RoF nerf on DMR is the only way. And when I say slight, I mean ever so slight. As I said, just enough that only when both are fired with perfect accuracy at their maximum fire rate will the BR win. This makes the BR more viable (tho not dominant) in slayer maps while leaving the DMR/light rifle the go to choices in BTB.

[upton889]

For small to mid range the BR can hang with the DMR but overall I choose the DMR every game. There is definitely more upside to the DMR as of right now.

[Bloody Initiate]

So you would like for the BR to not only be closer in performance to the DMR and better than the carbine in all instances but for it to further destroy all the other weapons? Buffing the BR to 4 shot would definitely make it the choice on all 4v4 maps while leaving some reason to pick the DMR in BTB but your only further weakening every other non power weapon, limiting viable options. And isnt making a certain weapon more of an option the purpose of this thread? Slight RoF nerf on DMR is the only way. And when I say slight, I mean ever so slight. As I said, just enough that only when both are fired with perfect accuracy at their maximum fire rate will the BR win. This makes the BR more viable (tho not dominant) in slayer maps while leaving the DMR/light rifle the go to choices in BTB.

 

First off, I never said any of the crap you just put on me. I don't like having one gun being better than all the rest, whether it's the DMR the BR or whatever. You don't seem to either, we just believe in different methods of fixing the problem. I believe in elevating the elements which fail to perform while leaving those that do alone, you believe in removing the single element which performs properly, even though you don't view it as such. The idea you propose is the problem Bungie and 343 have had from the start, they keep nerfing the top performers instead of bringing other things up to their level. I've ranted enough against nerfing in other threads, I'll continue now to the topic.

 

To clarify, I think the BR and the Carbine should be roughly equivalent, but I don't have all the answers, so I don't necessarily know how to accomplish it (The damage boosts I suggested - which are not original ideas - deserve a try in customs at least, perhaps on larger maps which have a greater variety of encounter ranges).

 

I think the carbine and the BR should both defeat the DMR mid-range, because they're both mid-range weapons. I think the DMR should defeat them both long-range, because it's a long range weapon. The lightrifle is its own unique animal, and most people I've talked to like it even if they don't use it.

 

Second, you're failing to see beyond the kill times. That's not the only factor in making a weapon work. The BR should be a 4-shot kill because it's designed to be a 4-shot kill. There are 36 rounds in a magazine, it fires only in 3-shot bursts, and it takes 5 shots to kill someone but only 13 of the bullets. That means you spend 15 rounds per kill mininum, and you have to reload after at most 2 kills. Everyone else has to reload after two kills too (I think a scoped lightrifle actually has a whole 3 kills in the clip, I haven't counted), but the DMR has more slack in its clip, making it more forgiving. People think the BR is more forgiving due to the 3-shot burst, but the burst spread is so tight it and the weapon is hitscan so it ends up making very little difference. If the BR were a 4-shot kill, all of its other numbers suddenly fall into place and make sense, because that's literally exactly what it was designed to do. They nerfed its damage without appropriate adjustments to its other aspects.

 

The problem with the BR being 4-shot is that it IS hitscan and its burst spread IS very tight. That's why I want its damage to be set up so you need exactly 12 bullets to kill, because the way that works is your last shot MUST put its last bullet in the head. That adds a degree of difficulty, but with the tight spread and hitscan nature I'm not sure it's enough of a degree of difficulty. It becomes a matter of needing to test it more extensively, but the problem with THAT is that I KNOW the 5-shot kill is terrible as it is, you just don't have as much killing power in that gun.

 

The carbine's killing power per clip is actually WORSE than the BR's, but at the moment it can kill faster, so I think that damage boost would actually keep the two roughly on par. I think it DOES get harder on the CQB weapons though if the carbine and BR get better, and while everything needs a little fine-tuning anyway, I'm not sure 343 is up to the task. I wouldn't blame them if they hadn't screwed it up in the first place but they created the problems by deliberately nerfing everything.

 

They dramatically increased the BR's RoF, but made the incredibly stupid move of making it a 5-shot kill, forcing it into a situation where it can only be either completely awful and pointless or just a little too good. Those are the choices, with a damage boost the BR and Carbine could easily rule smaller maps (Seems fair at first, but it's already harder being an automatic weapon user since you take so long to raise your weapon after sprinting), but without the boost they're both hideously bad and completely outclassed by the DMR.

 

That's why you have to look past kill times, btw. If you just look at kill times they're all just within a tenth of a second of each other and it seems insignificant, but you have to look beyond that to the second kill, and the third. How does the weapon keep you alive whenever the **** hits the fan? You have to think of how the weapon plays when your primary contribution to your team is assists from teamshot. The BR and the Carbine just get worse the longer you use them and the more situations in which you use them.

[Benchimus]

First off, I never said any of the crap you just put on me. I don't like having one gun being better than all the rest, whether it's the DMR the BR or whatever. You don't seem to either, we just believe in different methods of fixing the problem. I believe in elevating the elements which fail to perform while leaving those that do alone, you believe in removing the single element which performs properly, even though you don't view it as such. The idea you propose is the problem Bungie and 343 have had from the start, they keep nerfing the top performers instead of bringing other things up to their level. I've ranted enough against nerfing in other threads, I'll continue now to the topic.

 

To clarify, I think the BR and the Carbine should be roughly equivalent, but I don't have all the answers, so I don't necessarily know how to accomplish it (The damage boosts I suggested - which are not original ideas - deserve a try in customs at least, perhaps on larger maps which have a greater variety of encounter ranges).

 

I think the carbine and the BR should both defeat the DMR mid-range, because they're both mid-range weapons. I think the DMR should defeat them both long-range, because it's a long range weapon. The lightrifle is its own unique animal, and most people I've talked to like it even if they don't use it.

 

Second, you're failing to see beyond the kill times. That's not the only factor in making a weapon work. The BR should be a 4-shot kill because it's designed to be a 4-shot kill. There are 36 rounds in a magazine, it fires only in 3-shot bursts, and it takes 5 shots to kill someone but only 13 of the bullets. That means you spend 15 rounds per kill mininum, and you have to reload after at most 2 kills. Everyone else has to reload after two kills too (I think a scoped lightrifle actually has a whole 3 kills in the clip, I haven't counted), but the DMR has more slack in its clip, making it more forgiving. People think the BR is more forgiving due to the 3-shot burst, but the burst spread is so tight it and the weapon is hitscan so it ends up making very little difference. If the BR were a 4-shot kill, all of its other numbers suddenly fall into place and make sense, because that's literally exactly what it was designed to do. They nerfed its damage without appropriate adjustments to its other aspects.

 

The problem with the BR being 4-shot is that it IS hitscan and its burst spread IS very tight. That's why I want its damage to be set up so you need exactly 12 bullets to kill, because the way that works is your last shot MUST put its last bullet in the head. That adds a degree of difficulty, but with the tight spread and hitscan nature I'm not sure it's enough of a degree of difficulty. It becomes a matter of needing to test it more extensively, but the problem with THAT is that I KNOW the 5-shot kill is terrible as it is, you just don't have as much killing power in that gun.

 

The carbine's killing power per clip is actually WORSE than the BR's, but at the moment it can kill faster, so I think that damage boost would actually keep the two roughly on par. I think it DOES get harder on the CQB weapons though if the carbine and BR get better, and while everything needs a little fine-tuning anyway, I'm not sure 343 is up to the task. I wouldn't blame them if they hadn't screwed it up in the first place but they created the problems by deliberately nerfing everything.

 

They dramatically increased the BR's RoF, but made the incredibly stupid move of making it a 5-shot kill, forcing it into a situation where it can only be either completely awful and pointless or just a little too good. Those are the choices, with a damage boost the BR and Carbine could easily rule smaller maps (Seems fair at first, but it's already harder being an automatic weapon user since you take so long to raise your weapon after sprinting), but without the boost they're both hideously bad and completely outclassed by the DMR.

 

That's why you have to look past kill times, btw. If you just look at kill times they're all just within a tenth of a second of each other and it seems insignificant, but you have to look beyond that to the second kill, and the third. How does the weapon keep you alive whenever the **** hits the fan? You have to think of how the weapon plays when your primary contribution to your team is assists from teamshot. The BR and the Carbine just get worse the longer you use them and the more situations in which you use them.

I was implying that making the BR 4 shot as you want it to be would lead to what I said in my last post. The problem with bringing the BR up to the DMRs level rather than slightly nerfing the DMRs RoF is that the carbine would then need a buff. Now the automatic weapons and magnum are useless so then they would need a buff as well. Now all the weapons are more powerful and engagements are even shorter (depending on your viewpoint, this may be bad or good).

 

Giving the DMR a slight RoF nerf gives the carbine and BR the slight close/mid-range advantage over the DMR that they are supposed to have without affecting any other weapons relationship to the them. This also falls in line with the automatic weapons now having an extra small advantage over the DMR at close range. Which makes sense as this would make the DMR even less favorable on smaller maps. The effects of this on the DMRs long range kill times would be minuscule.

 

Now, as for your point about this doing nothing to make the BR less crappy: I view the BRs crappiness as being its redundancy and lack of purpose rather than some inherent quantity of "suck". Other than for that nostalgic feeling, there is no point in picking the BR outside of SWAT (I use the DMR there as well anyway tho) as the DMR matches it at close to mid and beats it in long range. Correct me if I am wrong but what I took away from your last comment was basically that as of now, it takes too many bullets to kill given how many a magazine has. Assuming perfect accuracy, the BR gives 2 kills and leaves you with 2 full bursts before a reload while the DMR gives 2 kills and leaves you with 4 bullets. In my opinion, I dont see this as a big deal and chalk it up to "different weapons are different". Perhaps you have many an instance where you take on several opponents at once and would have emerged victorious if not for a necessary reload. In my experience, this only happens if I happen to take several people by surprise at once or the other team is just plain bad.

 

In either case, I feel a slight RoF nerf for DMR would stop the DMR from being > the BR in every way without upsetting the BRs balance against any other weapon and would actually better place the DMR where it should be in relation to other weapons as well. The BRs hidden quantity of ****-suckery not withstanding.

[Bloody Initiate]

I think we agree on the problem but disagree on the solution, since you don't seem to deny that the BR sucks. I don't think it's supposed to be redundant though, even though at the moment it's both redundant and terrible.

 

My problem is that even after you nerf the DMR the BR will STILL suck.

 

The reason I talk about kills per clip isn't because everyone is going to run around getting into consecutive fights needing perfect accuracy without a reload, but because it's a good measure of how much heat you have when you spawn with a weapon. The amount of grenades won't change, and you'll use those to augment your damage and such, and your teammates will damage people too, so you'll often get more or less kills out of a clip depending on other factors, but those factors are independent of the weapon. The weapon can change. If you switch to a DMR from a BR then you just become a better more useful player, not because you get good suddenly, but because you brought the better gun.

 

Furthermore, my issue with the DMR nerf is that nothing gets better. You might think you'll "balance" things, but "balance" can mean a lot of things. In SWAT everyone is one-shot, so they die instantly but they also kill instantly. That's "balanced" but it's not the way the rest of the game should play. Also I don't really want the weapons to be "balanced" against each other when they're not supposed to be engaging enemies at the same range. Why should the DMR have the same kill time as a BR? It shouldn't, because then the DMR STILL wins because it's a more accurate gun and it doesn't need to reload as often. THAT'S not balanced.

 

The BR should have an edge in mid-range fights against the DMR, as should the carbine. Speaking of the carbine, I also advocate boosting its damage and keeping it on par with the BR, I just mention it less in this thread because this thread is about the DMR being better than the BR. There is in fact another active thread about the carbine, I talk about it there.

 

I don't have answers for every problem, but the BR DOES suck, the DMR IS fine, and to respond to your earlier mention about weapons killing faster all around when you enhance them, I think that's OK. I don't think a blanket boost is the trick.

 

I will explain one thing driving my arguments: I think your kill time with a loadout weapon should get faster the closer you get to your target. To elaborate, I think the AR/Storm Rifle/Suppressor should all have faster kill times than the BR and the Carbine, and I think the BR and the Carbine should have faster kill times than the DMR. The balance is accuracy/recoil/ease of use rather than just straight kill time. I don't think you should see a lot of DMRs on smaller maps like Abandon, because that isn't the map for that gun. I think BTB is rightfully full of DMRs and Lightrifles, because those are long range rifles. Maps and playlists with a good variety of encounter ranges tend to show how weapons perform vs. how they SHOULD perform, and playlists with only one type of map tend to be less friendly to a variety of weapons. As it is now the BR and the carbine underperform EVERYWHERE, and so I want them to perform SOMEWHERE. If you nerf the DMR, the other guns don't perform any better, the DMR just performs worse.

[Dawn Wolf]

Oh my god people. The BR is NOT THAT BAD. It's BARELY weaker.

[Bloody Initiate]

Oh my god people. The BR is NOT THAT BAD. It's BARELY weaker.

 

...but it IS weaker, as you state. Even at the range in which it is supposed to be better. Why would you use a gun that is designed to lose every fight?

 

I've never been the best Halo player, but since Halo 3 I've been good enough to play at the levels where weapon choice matters. I therefore use the DMR in Halo 4.

 

I might whip out the BR and the Carbine when I want the commendations, but I'm not sure I'll have the patience for those pieces of crap.

 

Some of us also don't like that one weapon is always king, we want variety and we want to feel like the other weapons have a purpose. Right now they don't.

[Dawn Wolf]

The BR HAS advantages!

 

It it much easier and more efficient at picking up kills. This makes it deadly when paired with frags, in general more than the DMR. A single burst can do the work of 2 DMR shots if shields are even a little off the norm.

 

It's harder to dodge an entire BR shot. People always talk about how with the BR, its easier to miss one of the bullets, but the don't talk about the other side to that coin. When you DO choke with the BR, and people always do, its generally much less than with a DMR. It's common for a DMR user to miss a few times and have to shoot up to 7 or 8 times. Rare for a BR user to go above 6 shots.

 

It also makes you flinch a bit more, or at least is more intimidating when aiming to get hit by. Three bullets instead of one.

 

Yeah, I agree. When all is said and done, I'd vote DMR. But not by much. Not by enough that it warrants a buff or nerf. Players 5 shot with the BR all the time, and reap the benefits of the burst too. It's FINE.

[goodiechewshoes]

I Reckon the DMR needs a slight nerf in rof.

lyk 0.1 seconds off the total kill time, perhaps even less, which would keep it's close range capabilities nearly the same, and weaken it at mid range vs BR.

Then at long range you have the DMR and Light Rifle

But currently at this point there is no reason to choose BR over DMR.

[Bloody Initiate]

The BR HAS advantages!

 

It it much easier and more efficient at picking up kills. This makes it deadly when paired with frags, in general more than the DMR. A single burst can do the work of 2 DMR shots if shields are even a little off the norm.

 

It's harder to dodge an entire BR shot. People always talk about how with the BR, its easier to miss one of the bullets, but the don't talk about the other side to that coin. When you DO choke with the BR, and people always do, its generally much less than with a DMR. It's common for a DMR user to miss a few times and have to shoot up to 7 or 8 times. Rare for a BR user to go above 6 shots.

 

It also makes you flinch a bit more, or at least is more intimidating when aiming to get hit by. Three bullets instead of one.

 

Yeah, I agree. When all is said and done, I'd vote DMR. But not by much. Not by enough that it warrants a buff or nerf. Players 5 shot with the BR all the time, and reap the benefits of the burst too. It's FINE.

 

 

First off, you're saying it's better at picking up kills, which against one shots is probably true, but you don't seem to notice that you're arguing based on people being one-shot. It seems like a pretty extenuating circumstance to hang your argument on, especially since your basis is someone else handling the heavy lifting for you.

 

I think it probaby IS harder to dodge a BR shot, but since the BR spread is actually extremely tight (Fire it into a wall some time) I feel like it's the difference between dodging a housefly and dodging a gnat (The BR being a housefly). You're talking about a very very small area, and I expect people probably miss by more than that when they do miss.

 

As for the amount of shots it takes when people miss a bit, I don't know if we can argue that because I doubt there is any way of actually measuring what you're claiming. I think over enough fights you're probably right, that's the point of burst fire. I don't think it's a big enough advantage to keep the BR in the running though.

 

I wondered whether you flinched more when hit by a BR. Even if you do, you're talking about a scoped combat, and I expect if you're using the BR in a scoped combat you have much bigger problems than flinch.

 

I don't want the BR to be pointless, it is right now. Being just a little worse than everything else makes a weapon pointless. It doesn't have any real advantage, so why would I bother using it? I WANT it to have an advantage so I CAN justify using it, but right now it just collects dust. I don't like that there's a king gun. I want them all to do their jobs, and the BR isn't doing its job.

[Death Panda x]

 

My problem is that even after you nerf the DMR the BR will STILL suck.

 

 

Not really. All the loadout weapons are where they should be (aside from the DMR). The fully automatic loadout weapons don't completely suck compared to their single fire counter-parts, which is a good thing. They BR compared to non loadout or power weapons, for example the needler, SAW, grenade launcher, is at a good balanced level with those too. They aren't completely better then the BR, and they arent outclassed by the BR and makes Those weapons obsolete. So the BR where it stands is actually really good. The problem is more about the DMR. By nerfing it (or even better removing it) all weapons seem to be really well balanced. It's just a much easier solution then giving all other weapons a buff to get on the DMRs level.

 

Oh my god people. The BR is NOT THAT BAD. It's BARELY weaker.

 

But that is a huge problem. A DMR user has a advantage over a BR user. Not a HUGE advantage, but the DMR making the BR obsolete is unacceptable.

[Baeztoberfest]

The BR in my opinion works much better at close to mid range, rather than the DMR. The spread is nice for getting those extra hits. I think that if the BR was changed to four shots (which I would prefer), people would complain about it being OP. I would disagree with that though... If it took four hits to kill, but every bullet from the burst had to hit (i.e. you had to be very accurate) I think it'd make more sense.

 

Then the weapon would be too skill based like the carbine. Not every person who plays Halo wants it to be a competitive cluster****. Some people enjoy the simplicity. Honestly there is no difference between BR or DMR. Just personal preference.

[JetEyeNight]

Every weapon is fine except for the DMR, which needs a nerf.

[Death Panda x]

 

 

Then the weapon would be too skill based like the carbine. Not every person who plays Halo wants it to be a competitive cluster****. Some people enjoy the simplicity. Honestly there is no difference between BR or DMR. Just personal preference.

 

Too skill based doesn't really make sense. If the BR was too hard for someone to get a 4 shot kill, than it would simpily take him a few more bursts and that is fine. In previous halos 4 shots where rare even for very good players. It makes that better player get an advantage, but shouldn't a better player get an advantage.

 

And yes there is statistically a difference between the BR and DMR. The DMR is much better at range, takes only 5 shots instead of 15, and has a nicer clip.

[Final Sentence]

DMR is hands down stronger but the problem is how to nerf it is the question. You can't make it a 6 shot and slowing the fire rate down would take hours of tweaking to try getting it correct.

 

Keep it the way it is then, if you want to use the BR wait for smaller maps. I've got my MASTER cleared with it and threw it back into the "the hell with using you, pile" KD went up per game by almost an entire point!. Majority of my BR game I found myself barely over 1 for 1 if not even. Going back to the DMR it's back around 2 for 1 as just about everything lands.

[Caboose The Ace]

i dont use ethir i use carbine it a good wepon peaple say it needs a buff but its good 4 me