DMR > BR in every way :o

[ProudDrunkIrish]

Just finished the mastery of BR and am now using DMR in its place and I have to say that its pretty much as good as the BR at mid range (BR might have the slightest advantage), but then at longer range it is way better.

 

The fire rate is the only change they can make, it may take some time to tweak it but in the end it will be worth it as the DMR's accuracy will keep it better at long range and the BR will be a clear favourite at mid range.

 

I do not see how there is any argument against this as the general consensus seems to be that its OP which it is. This would make the BR more usable and give it a home in mid range/smaller maps

[Dawn Wolf]

I think it probaby IS harder to dodge a BR shot, but since the BR spread is actually extremely tight (Fire it into a wall some time) I feel like it's the difference between dodging a housefly and dodging a gnat (The BR being a housefly). You're talking about a very very small area, and I expect people probably miss by more than that when they do miss.

 

 

See, but this is my point. You just kind of solidified what I'm trying to say. The BR has a definite advantage when players are weak, or are off balance. In other-words, it takes an ENTIRE DMR shot to take shields from 1% strength to 0%. That wastes a shot where a BR would not. In H4, it's common for outside damages, or the player's own grenades, to bring him off balance. (Not 25, 50, 75, or 100% shields). In that scenario, the BR is given a clear cut advantage.

 

But you and others make it sound like the BR has to pay dearly for that advantage by being terrible. But it's not.

 

As you JUST stated, I quote you, the BR spread is actually extremely tight. This is true. It is very tight. It's really not as much about luck or randomizes as people make it out to be. You can often confidently sink all bullets into the target. Sure, at long range it starts to get less accurate, but it's still viable. And I feel at all ranges the earlier mentioned advantage can be pretty powerful. Often when I use the BR, people just drop dead long before I would expect them to, and if I had a DMR.

 

Also, it's not a small area to dodge because of drag. That makes it really efficient and hard to escape. It turns a small area into a death line.

 

And it's not that HUGE of a problem for a weapon to have a SMALL advantage over another anyway. Generally speaking, weapons do. It's nigh impossible to PERFECTLY balance everything. As it stands, we're pretty close. Making the BR stronger would send it way further out of whack. It would dominate hard at long range too.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

Too skill based doesn't really make sense. If the BR was too hard for someone to get a 4 shot kill, than it would simpily take him a few more bursts and that is fine. In previous halos 4 shots where rare even for very good players. It makes that better player get an advantage, but shouldn't a better player get an advantage.

 

And yes there is statistically a difference between the BR and DMR. The DMR is much better at range, takes only 5 shots instead of 15, and has a nicer clip.

 

Good players and bad players should have the same advantage. The only benefit they get should be from good target acquisition and things like that. Natural skill based reflexes not game dynamics.

 

As for your comment 15 instead of 5? That's just daft. It's 5 trigger squeezes either way. C'mon guy.

[Bloody Initiate]

Good players and bad players should have the same advantage. The only benefit they get should be from good target acquisition and things like that. Natural skill based reflexes not game dynamics.

 

As for your comment 15 instead of 5? That's just daft. It's 5 trigger squeezes either way. C'mon guy.

 

He was attempting to explain how much you get out of those trigger squeezes and what they cost you.

 

You get 14 trigger squeezes with a DMR before you need to reload, you get 12 with a BR. So having the same amount of trigger squeezes to kill suddenly makes the BR a little worse.

 

Next up, each of your trigger squeezes with a BR is 3 bullets out of your clip. Guess how many bullets you need to kill someone (Hint: it's not a multiple of 3). Trigger squeezes aren't all that matters, it takes 13 bullets to kill with the Halo 4 BR, but it bleeds 2 bullets every kill because in order to fire 13 bullets it must fire 15 bullets. So you're actually losing 2/3rds of a burst every kill. 3 clips later (That's how many you have on spawn) you'll notice the hole in its magazine that has been dropping bullets out uselessly the whole time you've been carrying it.

 

It adds up to being just a little bit worse in damn near every way. No one is disputing that the DMR is just plain better than the BR, and that's the problem. The BR doesn't have any place in this game, neither does the carbine, because the DMR does both of their jobs better than they do them. I don't like that, but I don't think nerfing a gun that works perfectly like the DMR is the way to go. I would be comfortable with the BR getting a RoF DECREASE if it could 4-shot, but it has to be 4-shot. It doesn't work at all if it's not.

 

One argument is that the BR isn't THAT much worse so it shouldn't be bothered, but being inferior in every way, even if it's only by a little, makes a weapon pointless. Almost everyone who has the information we're discussing in this thread will prefer a DMR in-game (or a lightrifle in the right circumstances), because no one wants to have the gun that doesn't work.

 

If the plasma pistol couldn't EMP, no one would use it. The whole point of that weapon is to EMP. If the needler's projectiles didn't track their target, no one would use it. The weapon is built on tracking projectiles. The BR is designed to kill in 4 shots. If the BR can't 4-shot, it's pointless.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

^

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

He was attempting to explain how much you get out of those trigger squeezes and what they cost you.

 

You get 14 trigger squeezes with a DMR before you need to reload, you get 12 with a BR. So having the same amount of trigger squeezes to kill suddenly makes the BR a little worse.

 

Next up, each of your trigger squeezes with a BR is 3 bullets out of your clip. Guess how many bullets you need to kill someone (Hint: it's not a multiple of 3). Trigger squeezes aren't all that matters, it takes 13 bullets to kill with the Halo 4 BR, but it bleeds 2 bullets every kill because in order to fire 13 bullets it must fire 15 bullets. So you're actually losing 2/3rds of a burst every kill. 3 clips later (That's how many you have on spawn) you'll notice the hole in its magazine that has been dropping bullets out uselessly the whole time you've been carrying it.

 

It adds up to being just a little bit worse in damn near every way. No one is disputing that the DMR is just plain better than the BR, and that's the problem. The BR doesn't have any place in this game, neither does the carbine, because the DMR does both of their jobs better than they do them. I don't like that, but I don't think nerfing a gun that works perfectly like the DMR is the way to go. I would be comfortable with the BR getting a RoF DECREASE if it could 4-shot, but it has to be 4-shot. It doesn't work at all if it's not.

 

One argument is that the BR isn't THAT much worse so it shouldn't be bothered, but being inferior in every way, even if it's only by a little, makes a weapon pointless. Almost everyone who has the information we're discussing in this thread will prefer a DMR in-game (or a lightrifle in the right circumstances), because no one wants to have the gun that doesn't work.

 

If the plasma pistol couldn't EMP, no one would use it. The whole point of that weapon is to EMP. If the needler's projectiles didn't track their target, no one would use it. The weapon is built on tracking projectiles. The BR is designed to kill in 4 shots. If the BR can't 4-shot, it's pointless.

 

4, 5, 12, 15 doesn't matter dude. All that matters is you can only kill two people at full shields and health before you have to reload. With either rifle. Unless you're rocking dexterity that's what you have to deal with.

[OMG Treason]

Maybe it could be 4 shot at a close range but have dmg dropoff from medium-long range.

[Dawn Wolf]

Drop off is a bad idea. It's too arbitrary. It would artificially force the balance, which is not good.

 

 

He was attempting to explain how much you get out of those trigger squeezes and what they cost you.

 

You get 14 trigger squeezes with a DMR before you need to reload, you get 12 with a BR. So having the same amount of trigger squeezes to kill suddenly makes the BR a little worse.

 

Next up, each of your trigger squeezes with a BR is 3 bullets out of your clip. Guess how many bullets you need to kill someone (Hint: it's not a multiple of 3). Trigger squeezes aren't all that matters, it takes 13 bullets to kill with the Halo 4 BR, but it bleeds 2 bullets every kill because in order to fire 13 bullets it must fire 15 bullets. So you're actually losing 2/3rds of a burst every kill. 3 clips later (That's how many you have on spawn) you'll notice the hole in its magazine that has been dropping bullets out uselessly the whole time you've been carrying it.

 

It adds up to being just a little bit worse in damn near every way. No one is disputing that the DMR is just plain better than the BR, and that's the problem. The BR doesn't have any place in this game, neither does the carbine, because the DMR does both of their jobs better than they do them. I don't like that, but I don't think nerfing a gun that works perfectly like the DMR is the way to go. I would be comfortable with the BR getting a RoF DECREASE if it could 4-shot, but it has to be 4-shot. It doesn't work at all if it's not.

 

One argument is that the BR isn't THAT much worse so it shouldn't be bothered, but being inferior in every way, even if it's only by a little, makes a weapon pointless. Almost everyone who has the information we're discussing in this thread will prefer a DMR in-game (or a lightrifle in the right circumstances), because no one wants to have the gun that doesn't work.

 

If the plasma pistol couldn't EMP, no one would use it. The whole point of that weapon is to EMP. If the needler's projectiles didn't track their target, no one would use it. The weapon is built on tracking projectiles. The BR is designed to kill in 4 shots. If the BR can't 4-shot, it's pointless.

 

Sigh. I refuted it! I just did. There are several ways the BR is better than the DMR! It is NOT a one sided issue! The BR is perfectly viable! And honestly, losing 5-10%more of your ammo supply for a perfect kill should NOT be a major or even minor point here. If you're going to LIVE that long with the BR, obviously you're doing fine with it.

[Cocoa]

DMR is gamebreaking. It outclasses all rifles due to its high rate of fire, range, ridiculous bullet magnetism and auto aim.

 

 

 

[Bloody Initiate]

4, 5, 12, 15 doesn't matter dude. All that matters is you can only kill two people at full shields and health before you have to reload. With either rifle. Unless you're rocking dexterity that's what you have to deal with.

 

You could previously kill 3, with both guns, but that's another issue.

 

Yes you can drop 2 people with a BR before you have to reload, and 2 with the Carbine while we're at it, but the amount MORE than two kills you have in your clip is smaller with each of those guns.

 

It DOES matter, not because you're going to always have fights that require you to keep firing until you reload, that's just the measure. It matters because you're talking about a weapon that will get you to that reload faster. Want to use dexterity because you like reloading fast? Awesome, use a carbine then and you'll get to see that reload animation a lot. You won't see it as much with the BR, and you'll see it even less with the DMR.

 

It's also not ONLY about the ammo you have vs. the ammo you need, I just focus on that because no one else seemed to be noticing it (It IS important). It's about all the little tweaks they did or didn't make that add up to make the gun obsolete. They dropped the damage, but they didn't increase the clip size to accomodate; they made it hitscan and increased its fire rate, but also decreased its accuracy (So you're actually even better at ******** away ammo than ever before). It's a combination of the ammo shortage (Due to being 5-shot), the slower kill times, the lesser accuracy, and the more dramatic recoil.

 

I actually like the lower accuracy and noticeable recoil, but only if the BR beats the DMR at mid-range. It doesn't, so what's the point of it? I don't want one gun to be best at all ranges, that's never what I'm arguing for, I'm arguing for the variety of guns to have a purpose. They brought back the BR, but they made it pointless, so they didn't really bring it back, did they? You have a weapon which excels at nothing when compared to other weapons, so why use it? Personal preference? Go for it, but nobody's disputing that the DMR is better where it counts. As I said in another post we agree on the problem, but disagree on the solution. I believe in elevating the weak elements, others believe in nerfing the strong ones or leaving everything alone.

 

 

@Dawn Wolf, since you're the only one arguing for the BR being viable (Even though you also admit you'd back the DMR when push comes to shove), I don't know how good you and and I'm in no way attempting to criticize or question your Service Record, but I know when I started playing I was sooo excited they brought back the BR.

 

I was NOT excited because I thought my BR from Halo 3 was back, I was excited for the very thing that I argue for now: I thought the BR was better at mid-range and the DMR at long-range. No one told me this, it just made perfect sense (It really does make perfect sense btw).

 

So I did the thing that made perfect sense! I put the BR in my mid-range loadout and the DMR in my BTB loadout. I was thrilled because I thought they'd solved the problem of "Which marksman rifle" by just bringing them all back and making them good at different things! As I played and talked to friends they started telling me how the DMR had a faster kill time. I thought this was ridiculous, one of those myths that circulates online, like how if you're good then the carbine is the best.

 

I kept using my BR. In one game with some of my old clanmates I fought a team that was tough enough to make me notice something. I was either bad or losing all my fights to DMRs. No grenades or teamshot assisting them, their strafes were only as basic as mine, and their accuracy as well. I began to fear the BR actually did have a slower kill time. You may think something like that is hard to notice, but actually you notice very quickly when you're losing every straight up fight.

 

I watched a video in which the guy showed it was a 5-shot kill with the BR. I thought: "How embarrassing for that guy! He doesn't realize he didn't land one of the bursts right and he made video where he calls the BR a 5-shot kill!" However by this point I was worried, so I got into forge with an idle controller and tested it myself. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I didn't actually believe the results, so I tested it a couple more times. 5 every time. To 343's credit, they did increase the rate of fire by quite a bit, so without counting your shots in matchmaking you FEEL like you're 4-shotting because the kill times are just faster in this game. I even thought I counted, I even remember meeting a guy top mid in Haven and dropping him in 4-shots, but something about fighting for your life makes you accept whatever number you get as the number required.

 

The original reason I mentioned your service record, and again say I'm not criticizing yours and in fact haven't even looked at it, but I DO know that if you're as good or better than me (Tis a long list of people) then you don't need to read a thread to know that the BR stays home when you go out to play. You may argue that it's fine, but you also won't use it much. That, to me, means it's not fine.

 

That or you're a carbine or lightrifle guy, which may be very bad or very good, respectively.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

You could previously kill 3, with both guns, but that's another issue.

 

Yes you can drop 2 people with a BR before you have to reload, and 2 with the Carbine while we're at it, but the amount MORE than two kills you have in your clip is smaller with each of those guns.

 

It DOES matter, not because you're going to always have fights that require you to keep firing until you reload, that's just the measure. It matters because you're talking about a weapon that will get you to that reload faster. Want to use dexterity because you like reloading fast? Awesome, use a carbine then and you'll get to see that reload animation a lot. You won't see it as much with the BR, and you'll see it even less with the DMR.

 

It's also not ONLY about the ammo you have vs. the ammo you need, I just focus on that because no one else seemed to be noticing it (It IS important). It's about all the little tweaks they did or didn't make that add up to make the gun obsolete. They dropped the damage, but they didn't increase the clip size to accomodate; they made it hitscan and increased its fire rate, but also decreased its accuracy (So you're actually even better at ******** away ammo than ever before). It's a combination of the ammo shortage (Due to being 5-shot), the slower kill times, the lesser accuracy, and the more dramatic recoil.

 

I actually like the lower accuracy and noticeable recoil, but only if the BR beats the DMR at mid-range. It doesn't, so what's the point of it? I don't want one gun to be best at all ranges, that's never what I'm arguing for, I'm arguing for the variety of guns to have a purpose. They brought back the BR, but they made it pointless, so they didn't really bring it back, did they? You have a weapon which excels at nothing when compared to other weapons, so why use it? Personal preference? Go for it, but nobody's disputing that the DMR is better where it counts. As I said in another post we agree on the problem, but disagree on the solution. I believe in elevating the weak elements, others believe in nerfing the strong ones or leaving everything alone.

 

 

@Dawn Wolf, since you're the only one arguing for the BR being viable (Even though you also admit you'd back the DMR when push comes to shove), I don't know how good you and and I'm in no way attempting to criticize or question your Service Record, but I know when I started playing I was sooo excited they brought back the BR.

 

I was NOT excited because I thought my BR from Halo 3 was back, I was excited for the very thing that I argue for now: I thought the BR was better at mid-range and the DMR at long-range. No one told me this, it just made perfect sense (It really does make perfect sense btw).

 

So I did the thing that made perfect sense! I put the BR in my mid-range loadout and the DMR in my BTB loadout. I was thrilled because I thought they'd solved the problem of "Which marksman rifle" by just bringing them all back and making them good at different things! As I played and talked to friends they started telling me how the DMR had a faster kill time. I thought this was ridiculous, one of those myths that circulates online, like how if you're good then the carbine is the best.

 

I kept using my BR. In one game with some of my old clanmates I fought a team that was tough enough to make me notice something. I was either bad or losing all my fights to DMRs. No grenades or teamshot assisting them, their strafes were only as basic as mine, and their accuracy as well. I began to fear the BR actually did have a slower kill time. You may think something like that is hard to notice, but actually you notice very quickly when you're losing every straight up fight.

 

I watched a video in which the guy showed it was a 5-shot kill with the BR. I thought: "How embarrassing for that guy! He doesn't realize he didn't land one of the bursts right and he made video where he calls the BR a 5-shot kill!" However by this point I was worried, so I got into forge with an idle controller and tested it myself. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. I didn't actually believe the results, so I tested it a couple more times. 5 every time. To 343's credit, they did increase the rate of fire by quite a bit, so without counting your shots in matchmaking you FEEL like you're 4-shotting because the kill times are just faster in this game. I even thought I counted, I even remember meeting a guy top mid in Haven and dropping him in 4-shots, but something about fighting for your life makes you accept whatever number you get as the number required.

 

The original reason I mentioned your service record, and again say I'm not criticizing yours and in fact haven't even looked at it, but I DO know that if you're as good or better than me (Tis a long list of people) then you don't need to read a thread to know that the BR stays home when you go out to play. You may argue that it's fine, but you also won't use it much. That, to me, means it's not fine.

 

That or you're a carbine or lightrifle guy, which may be very bad or very good, respectively.

 

I can appreciate this reply. And I agree. I started with my ACT skin BR. I was amped. After trying the DMR I haven't gone back. Sad to say because I remember CLEARLY in Halo 3 even a carbine could keep up with a BR. Not so anymore. The lightrifle is just dumb. The carbine doesn't kill fast enough. The BR is too inaccurate. And the DMR is just right. I'm not a fan of NERFING OR BUFFING but if they had to do SOMETHING, I'd say bring the other rifles UP to the DMR's level. Don't make the DMR harder to use.

[ghosty0100]

I really hope they don't buff the BR, then we get 2 weps that dominate over all the rest. Whoop-de-doo, still a ******* problem isn't it? We need balance, not some stupid broken mess filled with nothing but UNSC rifles and firepower.

[Bloody Initiate]

I really hope they don't buff the BR, then we get 2 weps that dominate over all the rest. Whoop-de-doo, still a ******* problem isn't it? We need balance, not some stupid broken mess filled with nothing but UNSC rifles and firepower.

 

No one in this thread is arguing for 2 weapons dominating all the rest. We instead argue about weapon balance, offering various perspectives and some facts.

 

We DO focus on the BR and the DMR, but that's because they're in the title of the thread and therefore are the topic, no one in this thread argues that the BR and the DMR should be better than all the rest though. From what I can tell most people think the carbine should be at least as good as the BR. Due again to the topic being DMR > BR, we still spend most of the time talking about those two weapons.

[Death Panda x]

Here's the way I think it should be. The Carbine and BR should be equivalent. Both them should beat the DMR at close/mid range. The DMR should be better at long range but have a slight disadvantage at anything mid range or closer. The light rifle should stay as it is, with 5 shot kill unscoped and 4 shot scoped.

 

I think we can all agree on that, the solution is where we seem to have trouble. The best solution is the one that requires the least amount of changes well still maintaining what I said above. In Both options the Carbine gets the same kill time as the BR.

 

Option A: Slow kill time of DMR to slightly less of the BR/Carbine, the accuracy and range of the DMR would still keep in dominant from long distance. This also includes making the BR/Carbine have the equivalent clip size as the DMR.

 

Option B: Buff the BR to a 4 Shot kill and match the Carbine with the BRs kill time. The DMR would remain better at long distance, with the BR/Carbine better at mid to close range.

 

I Favor Option A much, much more. Why? Because the BR having the ability to 4 shot players (even though difficult) makes a lot of non-power weapons obsolete. Things like the Needler would not stand a chance against it.

[Bloody Initiate]

While I have very vocally preferred Option B, how do you think you'd like a 4-shot BR with a slower RoF that still defeats a DMR mid-range but doesn't so completely dominate automatic weapons?

 

I actually tested a 4-shot BR in a custom (Just a 10% damage boost) and even then I felt like its RoF might be a bit too high to make 4-shotting w/it balanced. The thing is, as I've said, it's nature just requires it to be 4-shot.

 

Also played some SWAT today to get my Pistolero challenge, I still think the BR's lower accuracy keeps it from contending with a DMR at longer ranges even when it kills instantly (Let alone 4-shot). I was in top-mid on Solace attacking some guys in the snipe tower at one of the bases and I put that reticule right on that dude's face and pulled the trigger twice, got headshotted by his DMR without landing a headshot of my own.

 

I think the sloppier +10% damage boost fix puts the DMR, the BR, and the Carbine just about where they should be, but as we've said those aren't the only three weapons. The reason I mention that though is because I feel like the weapons are actually very close to where they need to be if such a small fix can balance them against each other, it shouldn't take much more to balance them against everything else.

[Baeztoberfest]

Here's the way I think it should be. The Carbine and BR should be equivalent. Both them should beat the DMR at close/mid range. The DMR should be better at long range but have a slight disadvantage at anything mid range or closer. The light rifle should stay as it is, with 5 shot kill unscoped and 4 shot scoped.

 

I think we can all agree on that, the solution is where we seem to have trouble. The best solution is the one that requires the least amount of changes well still maintaining what I said above. In Both options the Carbine gets the same kill time as the BR.

 

Option A: Slow kill time of DMR to slightly less of the BR/Carbine, the accuracy and range of the DMR would still keep in dominant from long distance. This also includes making the BR/Carbine have the equivalent clip size as the DMR.

 

Option B: Buff the BR to a 4 Shot kill and match the Carbine with the BRs kill time. The DMR would remain better at long distance, with the BR/Carbine better at mid to close range.

 

I Favor Option A much, much more. Why? Because the BR having the ability to 4 shot players (even though difficult) makes a lot of non-power weapons obsolete. Things like the Needler would not stand a chance against it.

 

What I got out of this is that you want the DMR to be a second rate weapon. The ONLY map in the circumstances you were talking where the edge would go to the DMR would be complex.

 

What you're asking for isn't even legitimate at all. It's just you being sick to death of the DMR. Deal.

 

About the only thing I DID agree with is having the BR and Carbine on the same level. It wasn't uncommon in Halo 3 to have both of those duel and you had a 50% chance of survival. It truly was an even match.

 

But nerfing the DMR to the point it's unusable or everyone runs around with a 4 shot BR... That's just elitist and narrow minded. That's the exact opposite of equality.

[Death Panda x]

 

 

What I got out of this is that you want the DMR to be a second rate weapon. The ONLY map in the circumstances you were talking where the edge would go to the DMR would be complex.

 

What you're asking for isn't even legitimate at all. It's just you being sick to death of the DMR. Deal.

 

About the only thing I DID agree with is having the BR and Carbine on the same level. It wasn't uncommon in Halo 3 to have both of those duel and you had a 50% chance of survival. It truly was an even match.

 

But nerfing the DMR to the point it's unusable or everyone runs around with a 4 shot BR... That's just elitist and narrow minded. That's the exact opposite of equality.

 

How would it be unusable? The DMR would still have an advantage on Every big team map, complex, and any long range location on any other maps. The BR would simpily be better at close to mid range. 1 extra shot doesn't make it that much worse at closer ranges either. Hitting 4 hits on a target is easy, it's the headshot at the end where people its decided who would win that fight. If you pay attention to it in game you'll often be at no-shields but it will still take them 2-3 shots to finish you because they can't hit your head. The point is that if you have better accuracy you could still easily overcome most players at mid range when using a 6 shot kill DMR.

[Baeztoberfest]

 

 

How would it be unusable? The DMR would still have an advantage on Every big team map, complex, and any long range location on any other maps. The BR would simpily be better at close to mid range. 1 extra shot doesn't make it that much worse at closer ranges either. Hitting 4 hits on a target is easy, it's the headshot at the end where people its decided who would win that fight. If you pay attention to it in game you'll often be at no-shields but it will still take them 2-3 shots to finish you because they can't hit your head. The point is that if you have better accuracy you could still easily overcome most players at mid range when using a 6 shot kill DMR.

 

Nobody is gonna wanna fire 6 shots when they could fire 4. Period. If they do then they deserve to get their teeth kicked in. Every time they play.

 

How do you make a weapon deadly accurate at long range and not useful at close range? Maybe give extra zoom damage OH WAIT RIGHT LIKE THE LIGHT RIFLE! Fail guy... Just epic fail.

[Bloody Initiate]

A 6-shot DMR is not the way to go. It may be easy patch, but it's a patch that creates the same problem just with a different gun. If you nerf the DMR you get the lightrifle as the premier long-range weapon (no more contest due to DMR's versatility, which is its primary edge on the lightrifle) and a bunch of other rifles that fumble around medium and small maps. BR and Carbine would definitely come up in the world, but they won't be any better.

 

Also please keep in mind that versatility in a weapon isn't a bad thing. The fact that the DMR can contend at any range isn't the problem, the problem is that it actually dominates at most ranges. It's good to have a versatile gun, it lets a lot of players relax about their loadout choices and gives newer players (necessary to the continued life of any game) a good platform from which to begin their Halo experience, while allowing them to jump off once they find a gun better suited to their playstyle.

 

That's why you don't nerf the DMR. It's the landmark. You use it to keep your point of reference as you tweak other guns. Lightrifle is better at long range. Good. BR and Carbine are SUPPOSED to be better at mid-range, that's good too. Automatic weapons SHOULD be better at close range. The DMR should generally lose to these guns at their intended ranges, but generally beat them when they're outside of those ranges.

 

Why the DMR? Because it's versatile, unlike the lightrifle which fits its own niche, and they got it right, unlike the BR which lays down like a b***h. If they had made the Carbine king then we'd be talking about bringing everything up to the carbine's level. Instead they got the DMR right, so we bring the BR and the Carbine up to its level.

[Death Panda x]

 

 

Nobody is gonna wanna fire 6 shots when they could fire 4. Period. If they do then they deserve to get their teeth kicked in. Every time they play.

 

How do you make a weapon deadly accurate at long range and not useful at close range? Maybe give extra zoom damage OH WAIT RIGHT LIKE THE LIGHT RIFLE! Fail guy... Just epic fail.

 

The BR would still be 5 shot kill.. Way to read there

 

Sounds like someone's a little butthurt his favorite weapon diserves a nerf.

[Baeztoberfest]

The BR would still be 5 shot kill.. Way to read there

 

Sounds like someone's a little butthurt his favorite weapon diserves a nerf.

 

Sounds like someone is a little butt hurt that it's not gonna happen. While you're still crying on forums like a panzee I'll be enjoying the game thank you.

 

Oh and I did read your crummy post. I meant who would choose a 6 shot DMR (or any weapon for that matter over ANYTHING that could 4 shot something? You're an elitist dweeb who gets off by publicly humiliating himself. Come back with something

[Bloody Initiate]

The BR would still be 5 shot kill.. Way to read there

 

Sounds like someone's a little butthurt his favorite weapon diserves a nerf.

 

...which doesn't refute his point. No one is going to want to fire 6 shots when they can fire 5.

 

The carbine is already rarely used, and I think it has been ever since it was introduced to the game (I can't be sure because I didn't play a lot of Halo 2 online).

[Dawn Wolf]

The question becomes, how to you make a rifle like the BR good at short range but bad at long range? I'm not sure there's a way.

[Bloody Initiate]

The question becomes, how to you make a rifle like the BR good at short range but bad at long range? I'm not sure there's a way.

 

Without straying at all from the parameters in your first sentence, I can confidently say just making it 4-shot will do that. It really is pretty inaccurate at range and its recoil gets a lot more noticeable too. It also has NO chance at extreme range, where the DMR and the lightrifle are completely safe from everything but snipers, Gauss Hogs, and Scorpion tanks.

 

That being said, I inserted that disclaimer for a reason. As has already been discussed making it 4-shot gives it an edge on CQB weapons as well as in mid-range. I never argued that making the BR 4-shot was the only thing this game needed.

 

If I knew the kill times on the AR, Suppressor, and Storm Rifle at 100% damage, 101% damage, 110% damage, etc. and the same info on the BR's bursts, I'd be able to much more effectively suggest solutions. The thing is I don't and it wouldn't matter if I did because I don't work for 343 patching their games. THEY DO have that information though. I just hope they do the right things with it, because they also are the only ones with the power to fine-tune this sort of stuff.

 

I don't see it happening though, or at least I don't see it happening right. So I just get good w/my DMR and hope they don't take that away. That's the pessimist's perspective anyway, I much prefer to hope they'll just perfect everything, but I have no idea what they will or won't do. I only have their history as a means of predicting them.

 

If I ever get a big customs party together I'm going to test a gametype with 110% damage and a 4 second shield recharge delay in Big Team scenarios. I think the variety of encounter ranges will allow for different weapons to shine as well as gloss over the crudeness of a 10% damage boost. I think most weapons that need boosts don't need boosts higher than 10% or even a full 10%, which is a bit of a back-handed compliment. 343 got the weapons within 10% of where they should be in my opinion, that's a pretty small difference between what I consider ideal and where things are now. I think that BTB custom will be excellent though.

[Dawn Wolf]

Without straying at all from the parameters in your first sentence, I can confidently say just making it 4-shot will do that. It really is pretty inaccurate at range and its recoil gets a lot more noticeable too. It also has NO chance at extreme range, where the DMR and the lightrifle are completely safe from everything but snipers, Gauss Hogs, and Scorpion tanks.

 

See, I gotta disagree. The BR is pretty accurate. To the point where a 4 shot BR should beat a 5 shot DMR more times than not across Haven. Complex? Sure. Maybe. But the DMR shouldn't be condemned to be weaker at all ranges except very far. Honestly, try putting a custom powerful for +10 percent power or whatever. I bet the BR user will tear up the DMR user.

 

It's gross, but I'd almost say make it four shot, and give it MORE spread. Naw, that's too gross. I wouldn't say that.