Gauss Hog is too Overpowered!!!

[Vaulting♥Frog]

1. Drawbacks on the Gauss Hog are that it rolls, it can be hijacked, the vehicle is not heavily armored (like the tank, banshee, wraith, mantis), it cannot shoot straight up, and it cannot shoot within a certain radius of it downwards, and it is open ended (i.e. you can kill the people inhabiting it without actually damaging the vehicle itself). Not to mention that unlike the even more mobile Binary Rifle (also 1sk) it cannot zoom, making it require skill to use at long range. The Gauss hog is considered a "power vehicle" unlike it's chaingun counterpart. It is basically a more mobile version of the tank that isn't nearly as armored as a tank. You are suggesting making it slower, which will turn it into what the scorpion is today (i.e. a friggin joke "lol newb in a tank everyone nade spam it cuz it can't run"). The Gauss hog works the exact same way as a normal hog, just with a bigger gun. A Scorpion can take it down in one shot (and if they hadn't nerfed it [again proving nerfing isn't the answer] it would have no trouble tracking a hog at top speed) or two if the shot lands oddly. The Gauss takes 3 shots to kill a Scorpion (sometimes 4) at full health.

 

2. So? Halo has a learning curve. It always has. The main thing that separates it from games like CoD (tired example, but still) is the fact that it isn't a game you can just pick up and be a god at. If they keep nerfing things rather than balancing them out (i.e. adding or removing items from the game) then Halo will lose it's learning curve and simply be CoD with shields. And you don't have to be a crack shot to take down someone's shields while they are in a hog. It's simply point and spam. And once you see their shields pop, aim for the head. Easy peasy. Even easier if you have a sniper rifle or binary rifle, because then you only need to land a couple of shots.

 

The fact of the matter is, much to the chagrin of those of you who constantly get pwn3d, the Gauss is balanced. You can try to justify a nerf, but it doesn't need one. If it DID need one, I'm sure that it would have received one in the past 8 years that it has been in Matchmaking.

 

You do realize your trying to disprove personal opinions right?

[SatanicBagels]

1. Drawbacks on the Gauss Hog are that it rolls, it can be hijacked, the vehicle is not heavily armored (like the tank, banshee, wraith, mantis), it cannot shoot straight up, and it cannot shoot within a certain radius of it downwards, and it is open ended (i.e. you can kill the people inhabiting it without actually damaging the vehicle itself). Not to mention that unlike the even more mobile Binary Rifle (also 1sk) it cannot zoom, making it require skill to use at long range. The Gauss hog is considered a "power vehicle" unlike it's chaingun counterpart. It is basically a more mobile version of the tank that isn't nearly as armored as a tank. You are suggesting making it slower, which will turn it into what the scorpion is today (i.e. a friggin joke "lol newb in a tank everyone nade spam it cuz it can't run"). The Gauss hog works the exact same way as a normal hog, just with a bigger gun. A Scorpion can take it down in one shot (and if they hadn't nerfed it [again proving nerfing isn't the answer] it would have no trouble tracking a hog at top speed) or two if the shot lands oddly. The Gauss takes 3 shots to kill a Scorpion (sometimes 4) at full health.

 

Essentially what I got from that is that there are small drawbacks to the Gauss but it's ridiculous advantages render them relatively minor. and I also don't necessarily think that the Gauss requires much skill to use at long range. If your target is inside any portion of the circular reticule then you'll end up with a kill. The Binary rifle tends to be far less powerful at all but the shortest of ranges.

 

2. So? Halo has a learning curve. It always has. The main thing that separates it from games like CoD (tired example, but still) is the fact that it isn't a game you can just pick up and be a god at. If they keep nerfing things rather than balancing them out (i.e. adding or removing items from the game) then Halo will lose it's learning curve and simply be CoD with shields. And you don't have to be a crack shot to take down someone's shields while they are in a hog. It's simply point and spam. And once you see their shields pop, aim for the head. Easy peasy. Even easier if you have a sniper rifle or binary rifle, because then you only need to land a couple of shots.

 

The idea of taking someones shields down while they are in the Warthog is rendered void by the fact that any half decent driver would just swivel quickly and drive away or at an angle that makes it hard upon the shooter. Any half decent gunner would also likely kill the shooter with the cannon before they can get the fifth shot off.

 

The fact of the matter is, much to the chagrin of those of you who constantly get pwn3d, the Gauss is balanced. You can try to justify a nerf, but it doesn't need one. If it DID need one, I'm sure that it would have received one in the past 8 years that it has been in Matchmaking.

 

I'm fairly sure that it did receive a nerf in Halo 4 due to it being way too OP in previous Halo's. Unfortunately it wasn't nearly enough.

[Twinreaper]

Anyone biching about the gauss must not have played Halo 2 or 3 very often. Its a one hit kill turretband even very close proximity will send you flying without shields or the splash damage will kill you. It has the same damage paramaters as all previous titles except for the firing spped.

 

And lets be honest...for someone to be deadly accurate with it in a moving hog plus its horrible no center mark reticule.....the user has serious skill. As stated before, counter it properly.

[INYOF4CE128]

I think it shouldnt be regualted to the one teams side. Each time has to race for the tank. Why not for the Gauss?

[OMG Treason]

I think the issue is one team has instant access to it.

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

I think the issue is one team has instant access to it.

That's one of the issues. It's easy for two people to hop in the Gauss Hog then head straight for the Scorpion to prevent the other team from getting it, but it's impossible for this to happen the other way around.

[The Director]

I think it shouldnt be regualted to the one teams side. Each time has to race for the tank. Why not for the Gauss?

Actually sometimes red team spawns pretty much directly on the tank. Blue team sometimes spawns on the Gauss.

 

 

Essentially what I got from that is that there are small drawbacks to the Gauss but it's ridiculous advantages render them relatively minor. and I also don't necessarily think that the Gauss requires much skill to use at long range. If your target is inside any portion of the circular reticule then you'll end up with a kill. The Binary rifle tends to be far less powerful at all but the shortest of ranges.

 

The idea of taking someones shields down while they are in the Warthog is rendered void by the fact that any half decent driver would just swivel quickly and drive away or at an angle that makes it hard upon the shooter. Any half decent gunner would also likely kill the shooter with the cannon before they can get the fifth shot off.

 

I'm fairly sure that it did receive a nerf in Halo 4 due to it being way too OP in previous Halo's. Unfortunately it wasn't nearly enough.

Okay, it seems you have about three points here that I'm now going to render invalid. Sorry in advance.

 

1. The only advantages the Gauss has over any given power vehicle is shot speed and movement speed. It's shot power is not quite equal to that of a tank shot, and it has nowhere near the splash damage as a banshee bomb. You also seem to be implying that the circular reticle is massive, which it is not. Especially when you consider that it's anti-zoomed. The disadvantages it has are immense when compared side by side to the other power vehicles (i.e. Scorpion, Wraith, Banshee, Mantis, etc.). Most power vehicles are heavily armored and move at moderate/slow speeds. The Gauss hog is as armored as a warthog (not very armored at all really), has open seats at full health (unlike any of the vehicles mentioned), and it takes two teammates (or three even) to operate effectively. That means that it has to get the amount of kills that both of those people would normally have gotten in one seater power vehicles to be considered "OP". It is very, very rare for that to happen. The only time that happens is when ALL of the players on the opposing team are derps. So your argument about "small drawbacks and ridiculous advantages" is baseless. Not to mention that it has the same spawn time as the tank and the banshee, and is rarer to see in matchmaking than most of the other power vehicles.

 

2. And here we go again. This is rendered invalid by the fact that I do it, and I'm not a great player. I'm average, if that. Yet, I can easily get the four shot shield pop on either the driver or the gunner, and if I get taken down instaspawn allows me to get the fifth shot before their shields regen. Either that or my teammates aren't quite stupid enough to just let them wander around unassailed and take them out for me. The Gauss hog isn't just run by either the gunner or the shooter, it's run by both. If the driver is just driving around, the only kills he's going to get are by splatters. If the gunner is just sitting their, he can only get the ones that he can see, and has a high (very high mind you) risk of being got himself. Therefor, it is a teamwork vehicle. Which obviously means that it does sometimes take teamwork to take down.

 

Oh, and also, the only nerf that it has received in the past 8 years wasn't even a nerf. It was a reduction in shot speed from Halo 3 to Halo Reach because they wanted to make it feel more "old school tech". The only reason it didn't get bumped up with Halo 4 is because they took the vehicle damage tables from Reach rather than from 3. And yes Twin, I know they adjusted them, but still. lol

 

Final thought: The Gauss only spawns on one map. There is ONE Gauss Hog in the entirety of matchmaking. And you want to take that away from those of us who've loved it since Halo 2? For shame good sir. For shame.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

Actually sometimes red team spawns pretty much directly on the tank. Blue team sometimes spawns on the Gauss.

 

 

Okay, it seems you have about three points here that I'm now going to render invalid. Sorry in advance.

 

1. The only advantages the Gauss has over any given power vehicle is shot speed and movement speed. It's shot power is not quite equal to that of a tank shot, and it has nowhere near the splash damage as a banshee bomb. You also seem to be implying that the circular reticle is massive, which it is not. Especially when you consider that it's anti-zoomed. The disadvantages it has are immense when compared side by side to the other power vehicles (i.e. Scorpion, Wraith, Banshee, Mantis, etc.). Most power vehicles are heavily armored and move at moderate/slow speeds. The Gauss hog is as armored as a warthog (not very armored at all really), has open seats at full health (unlike any of the vehicles mentioned), and it takes two teammates (or three even) to operate effectively. That means that it has to get the amount of kills that both of those people would normally have gotten in one seater power vehicles to be considered "OP". It is very, very rare for that to happen. The only time that happens is when ALL of the players on the opposing team are derps. So your argument about "small drawbacks and ridiculous advantages" is baseless. Not to mention that it has the same spawn time as the tank and the banshee, and is rarer to see in matchmaking than most of the other power vehicles.

 

2. And here we go again. This is rendered invalid by the fact that I do it, and I'm not a great player. I'm average, if that. Yet, I can easily get the four shot shield pop on either the driver or the gunner, and if I get taken down instaspawn allows me to get the fifth shot before their shields regen. Either that or my teammates aren't quite stupid enough to just let them wander around unassailed and take them out for me. The Gauss hog isn't just run by either the gunner or the shooter, it's run by both. If the driver is just driving around, the only kills he's going to get are by splatters. If the gunner is just sitting their, he can only get the ones that he can see, and has a high (very high mind you) risk of being got himself. Therefor, it is a teamwork vehicle. Which obviously means that it does sometimes take teamwork to take down.

 

Oh, and also, the only nerf that it has received in the past 8 years wasn't even a nerf. It was a reduction in shot speed from Halo 3 to Halo Reach because they wanted to make it feel more "old school tech". The only reason it didn't get bumped up with Halo 4 is because they took the vehicle damage tables from Reach rather than from 3. And yes Twin, I know they adjusted them, but still. lol

 

Final thought: The Gauss only spawns on one map. There is ONE Gauss Hog in the entirety of matchmaking. And you want to take that away from those of us who've loved it since Halo 2? For shame good sir. For shame.

 

I see you declined to quote me...

 

Also I dont know what BTB game your playing but they have very specific spawn areas for Red and Blue teams. The Red team has to run to the tank in order to get it. They spawn on the far side of a wall from it...

[The Director]

I see you declined to quote me...

 

Also I dont know what BTB game your playing but they have very specific spawn areas for Red and Blue teams. The Red team has to run to the tank in order to get it. They spawn on the far side of a wall from it...

Sorry, I was speaking about the spawns after the game started rather than the initial spawns. I would have to go check the initial spawns and measure their distances to be able to make a valid argument against that.

 

Be that as it may, however, that is not justification for the Gauss to be nerfed. Rather for the spawns to be tweaked.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

Sorry, I was speaking about the spawns after the game started rather than the initial spawns. I would have to go check the initial spawns and measure their distances to be able to make a valid argument against that.

 

Be that as it may, however, that is not justification for the Gauss to be nerfed. Rather for the spawns to be tweaked.

 

You stated in the shoutbox not moments ago that you were putting in facts in this thread, yet your entire posts are pure opinion.

 

You state that it is easy to take out players using the binary rifle while they are driving. That is for you and you alone. I dont find it easy at all. You have been stating nothing but opinions here so far, not facts.

 

So again, this is a battle of opinions. No side is correct nor incorrect.

[INYOF4CE128]

It seems to me that the strategy of most is to:

 

2 players enter Gauss

Drive to the bridge

Take down enemies as then rush the tank

Gauss gunner gets out and gets in tank

 

I hate to put a success rate on it but this strategy works 8/10 times.

 

The tank is in an unbiased spot..likewise to the Banshee. And also, I have seen hundreds of times, rushing the tank with the machine gun warthog and the Gauss takes out Man/Unmanned Banshee.

[The Director]

You stated in the shoutbox not moments ago that you were putting in facts in this thread, yet your entire posts are pure opinion.

 

You state that it is easy to take out players using the binary rifle while they are driving. That is for you and you alone. I dont find it easy at all. You have been stating nothing but opinions here so far, not facts.

 

So again, this is a battle of opinions. No side is correct nor incorrect.

I should probably mention that I don't usually base my "opinions" on my own personal feelings. I take facts and form an opinion around them. And my statements were full of facts, and had some opinion here and there. I was going to go through and list all of the facts that I stated and then rendered a statement from them, but I then realized that I am simply far too lazy to do so. Therefor, I will simply point at you and shout "SLANDEROUS LIES!"

 

Actually, I will name one example so that you can go back and look at all of them on your own, this time knowing that you are looking for. I'll even color code it for you.

 

Fact. Opinion.

 

The Gauss hog works the exact same way as a normal hog, just with a bigger gun. A Scorpion can take it down in one shot (and if they hadn't nerfed it [again proving nerfing isn't the answer] it would have no trouble tracking a hog at top speed) or two if the shot lands oddly. The Gauss takes 3 shots to kill a Scorpion (sometimes 4) at full health.

 

Mind you, in this case fact actually means that it is true. Not that it is something that is an isolated incident based only on one persons viewpoint.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

Your still stating opinions dude...

[INYOF4CE128]

What do you think should be done for it to be less powerfull?

[TRF BaDInTentZs]

Dude. Aim for the gunner. If he gets you, finish him off on the respawn. The Gauss has been in matchmaking for a while now. It isn't going anywhere. There's a saying when it comes to matchmaking. "Adapt or die."

 

The easiest (and most effective) way to take care of the Gauss Hog is to kill the driver or the gunner. The hog itself is harder to take down then both of those combined.

 

Nah, it's easier to take out the hog and there by take at least 2 out. PP and stickie for the win. Swap the PP for one of the other's weapons. Derp

 

 

everyone has the abillty to spawn with a plasma pistol even tho i hate having to change a loadout just to counter objects. the plasma pistol makes any gauss basicly useless.

 

Repeat

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

How about instead of nerfing the Gauss Hog, they just make everything else stronger?

[TornadoFlame]

hmm i've never had a problem with the that hog i think its to weak accutaly lol. but i do not play big team anymore i just know the spawns are unfair at the start of the game.

[Xoxex]

I agree that it would make sense for it to be a little slower than the machine gun warthog due to its greater kill potential.

[SatanicBagels]

All I'm going to say is that you are correct Director if someone can snipe a driver out of the Warthog frequently using the DMR or sniper rifle... but I don't think that that is a skill that very many people have (props to you for being able to do that). Still even if I don't see why the driver cannot powerslide out of the way and find cover making the driver a very hard target along the way.

 

How about instead of nerfing the Gauss Hog, they just make everything else stronger?

 

I don't necessarily think that they should nerf the Gauss Hog. Personally I think that it is such a dominant power vehicle that it should be placed in a neutral position... That way it would take teamwork to secure and would likely be blown up in the beginning of the match. With the way they have designed the map I am not sure if that is a possible change.

[RedStarRocket91]

Now on Exile, it's possible to simply avoid the Gauss Hog altogether: it's a big level with plenty of indoors areas around the edges and centre, where the Warthog's size and low manoeuvrability would make it an easy target for any driver stupid enough to try and drive it inside. But the real problem is that while it's possible to avoid being killed by it, there aren't any real hard counters to it. The Scorpion is very effective, as is the Banshee in the hands of a skilled player, but once they're wrecked there just isn't anything with enough punch to take it on outside of ordnance weapons, which are an unreliable source.

 

There's no point nerfing the damage of the weapon itself - if it's not capable of one-shot-killing someone, then unless the gunner is particularly exceptional it's very unlikely to get many kills while moving at high speed. To compensate, drivers will have to move more slowly and predictably, and suddenly there's no real advantage over regular infantry: and even then it's basically just filling the same role as the chaingun Warthog, so there's no point in it being there to begin with.

 

Taking it out altogether wouldn't help much, as it leaves the Scorpion and Banshee basically unchallenged - and the Scorpion in particular doesn't take nearly as much skill to use effectively. It would also hurt team games, as suddenly there's a lack of transport for objective carriers or for players to actually capture objectives whilst the 'hog stands on guard. Replacing it with a chaingun Warthog is potentially an option, but it doesn't really have the power or range necessary to make it a viable option on a map that large and with sigh tlines that long.

 

So removal's not an option, and the weapon's power can't really be reduced. The other options are therefore to add more hard counters, weaken its strength overall, or nerf the weapon in some other way.

 

Hard counters aren't a particularly good choice, as due to the random nature of ordnance drops they're as likely to be completely useless or even help the Warthog's team as they are to help the defending team. Even assuming the enemy team doesn't get it first, you're still as likely to get a Needler or a Concussion Rifle as you are to get a Spartan Laser or Binary Rifle.

 

Weakening the Warthog's strength is also a bad idea, as it's already actually quite weak, and any further reduction would make it worthless as a transport as well as unable to stand up in a straight fight against regular infantry. Vehicles need to be wrecked over the course of minutes, not seconds, at least when dealing with rifles and grenades.

 

So the last option, and by far what I believe to be the best, is a non-damage nerf.

 

Firstly, the Gauss Warthog isn't supposed to be used to take on groups of infantry: that's the regular Warthog's job. At the moment, the Gauss Warthog is just a straight upgrade rather than an alternative in terms of preference or role, and these upgrades are what we need to look at when deciding how to nerf it.

• Kill times against infantry are probably about the same, allowing for the delay between shots
  
• Far greater effective range, even with the slight projectile travel time
  
• Much greater damage against vehicles
  
• No warm-up time, unlike the chaingun which requires a few seconds to spool up to maximum damage per second
  
• Though much more accurate, has about the same strength of aim assist and aim assist range
  

Ideally, when nerfing the Gauss Warthog, we don't want to just keep it as an improved Warthog in terms of role. So, my proposal is that when deciding how to nerf it, we aim to make it a dedicated anti-materiel vehicle, which is actually weaker against groups of infantry than the regular Warthog.

 

Kill times necessarily need to be extended if raw damage is to be preserved. There are three main ways of doing this: the first would be to increase the cooldown time after firing a shot. This makes misses more costly, as instead of just being able to fire another shot straight away, there will be a longer time where the vehicle is vulnerable to counter attack. It also means that even if the shot hits and kills the target, other nearby enemies have more time to either run away or try and do damage, making it less effective against multiple targets than the regular Warthog.

 

The second option is to implement a charging time for the weapon, like the Railgun or Spartan Laser. This makes the weapon's use more tactical, as if someone is moving in and out of cover, it becomes much harder to effectively guess when to begin charging, and relies on the ability to track movement rather than just the ability to aim at all. However, this might be too much of a nerf, especially against vehicles, as in the time it would take to charge and fire the Warthog could be destroyed, especially against powerful vehicles like the Scorpion or weapons like the Rocket Launcher.

 

The last option is to implement an overheating system similar to the Beam Rifle. Though the weapon could be fired quickly it would result in overheating - and due to the size of the weapon, it would need a lot longer to cool down for use again. This would encourage gunners to pace their shots and increase kill times against multiple opponents, whilst still allowing for multiple rapid shots under stress. Though I think this would be probably be the best way of nerfing the weapon (provided the heat generated from each shot was high enough and took long enough to cool, even before the overheat), it has the major disadvantage of not being user-friendly, and might be very difficult to master, especially considering the comparative rarity with which most players get to use the Gauss Hog's cannon.

 

The other way that the Guass Hog could be nerfed is with the cannon's aim assist. By making the weapon more accurate and reducing or even removing aim assist an bullet magnetism, it becomes much more dependant on the accuracy of the gunner, meaning that while most players will still be able to reliably hit large targets like Ghosts, Mongooses and Banshees, they'll have much more difficulty hitting smaller targets like enemy Spartans. This would also help those who're particularly good marksmen really stand out, as while there'd be a lot more near-misses among the weaker players, they'd be able to hit enemies at even longer ranges due to the smaller reticule.

[ioniablackbird]

In big team I always spawn with a PP, I've never seen the Gauss last more than a few Min, there are way too many places to ambush it.

[OMG Treason]

Well today we went on a 28 kill streak..in one.

[LiQuid BioniX]

That's why whenever I get an Ordinance Drop with a rocket launcher, sticky detonator, or some other anti-vehicle weapon I save it until there's a vehicle (like the Gauss Hog) that I can effectively counter. It's a big win to keep vehicles out of the enemy's hands.

[OMG Treason]

That's why whenever I get an Ordinance Drop with a rocket launcher, sticky detonator, or some other anti-vehicle weapon I save it until there's a vehicle (like the Gauss Hog) that I can effectively counter. It's a big win to keep vehicles out of the enemy's hands.

 

This guys got the right idea.

[Bloody Initiate]

The only problem with the Gauss Hog is the amount on the map. There should be two or zero, never just one.

 

Also for those comparing it to other vehicles: it takes twice the amount of players to operate. The Gauss is probably the most dangerous and versatile vehicle in Halo 4's matchmaking, and as long as it's the only contender that takes TWO players to operate, that's fair (The rocket and chaingun hog are NOT contenders). It's not actually as versatile as a banshee, but it's much more dangerous, and it obviously doesn't have nearly the firepower of the Scorpion, but it's more versatile. Combine those facts with the fact that you need to sacrifice 25% of your team to run it, and you have a balanced - if very powerful - vehicle.

 

They absolutely MUST fix the insanely stupid placement though, 1 on a 2-sided map is unacceptable, 2 is fair, 0 is acceptable. You can't balance things when you give everything to one team. I will never understand how whoever designed that map was allowed to EVER design maps. Don't blame the vehicles and weapons for your problems though, blame the fool who just gave them all to one side of the fight.