Christian. Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Well about it having flaws, everything can't be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Initiate Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 Wow, I have a 29? What a shame. I remember having a 43 in Halo 3. Can't believe how bad I've gotten. I know exactly how you feel, although I felt that way before I saw my Trueskill. I'm awful at this game, I hate it. I was bad at Reach too. I wasn't amazing at Halo 3, but I was at least consistently above average. I can't be consistent in Reach or in Halo 4. One of the reasons I don't really want a ranking system (aside from genuinely believing Trueskill is not meant to be seen) is that I don't want to be ranked on a game where I'm not consistent. I feel like the game isn't worthy of a ranking system, because consistency is extremely important. As it is my performance is all over the place, and it doesn't feel like something I have a lot of control over. I wouldn't care if I was consistently bad, but a .5 K/D one game and a 2.0+ the next is all wrong. The game isn't designed well enough to rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halogeek99 Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 What does h4 have now? 40k daily? OK the ranking system will make that 5k in some months. In case u folks missed it; the Xbox is dead. H3 was good. Guitar hero was best. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FleshBack Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I know exactly how you feel, although I felt that way before I saw my Trueskill. I'm awful at this game, I hate it. I was bad at Reach too. I wasn't amazing at Halo 3, but I was at least consistently above average. I can't be consistent in Reach or in Halo 4. One of the reasons I don't really want a ranking system (aside from genuinely believing Trueskill is not meant to be seen) is that I don't want to be ranked on a game where I'm not consistent. I feel like the game isn't worthy of a ranking system, because consistency is extremely important. As it is my performance is all over the place, and it doesn't feel like something I have a lot of control over. I wouldn't care if I was consistently bad, but a .5 K/D one game and a 2.0+ the next is all wrong. The game isn't designed well enough to rank. I have a hard time seeing how people perform consistently well in this game, other than farming kills in vehicles and and with a DMR and camo in BTB and objectives. Granted there are some guys out there that are just genuinely really good at this game, but from what I have seen they're far and few in-between. I play strictly Regicide and Team Slayer, which IMO are the most unforgiving gametypes on one's KD. Regicide is just a meatgrinder, and Infinity slayer is hit and miss when you play with randoms and without a mic. Especially in maps like Complex where you could win any 1v1 fight, but you better pray to goodness that you are not out in the open when you are one shot because you can almost COUNT on someone finishing you off from across the map with a DMR. I am in he same boat as you. I don't do consistently good or bad. Sadly I don't think there are any fixes for this either as the randomness is just intrinsic to the game design. If a visible trueskill rank were to ever come out, which I doubt will happen much to the dismay of many people, I doubt there would be nearly as many 40s and 50s as there were in Halo 3 and I don't think It iis because of the population numbers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rei Posted January 16, 2013 Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 If I remember correctly, it was pretty difficult getting pass level 35 in Halo 2. A lot of skilled players were stuck around 35-40. Significantly different in Halo 3, where it was much easier getting to 45. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkiee Posted January 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2013 I know exactly how you feel, although I felt that way before I saw my Trueskill. I'm awful at this game, I hate it. I was bad at Reach too. I wasn't amazing at Halo 3, but I was at least consistently above average. I can't be consistent in Reach or in Halo 4. One of the reasons I don't really want a ranking system (aside from genuinely believing Trueskill is not meant to be seen) is that I don't want to be ranked on a game where I'm not consistent. I feel like the game isn't worthy of a ranking system, because consistency is extremely important. As it is my performance is all over the place, and it doesn't feel like something I have a lot of control over. I wouldn't care if I was consistently bad, but a .5 K/D one game and a 2.0+ the next is all wrong. The game isn't designed well enough to rank. The reason for your inconsistency is not that you just suddenly become bad and in the next game your're a great player it's probably because you are matched up against teams of different skill levels every game. Which is exactly what I have been saying, the hidden trueskill system doesn't work as well as it should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Initiate Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nah man it's because I'm bad at Halo 4. Thank you for attempting to make it the game's fault, but I'm really pretty bad at this game, lol. What IS the game's fault is all the things that focus on equalling things out so everyone feels like a champ. Perhaps if they had planned to put in visible Trueskill from the start they wouldn't have been so stupid with their game design, but Halo 3 would have still been amazing without visible Trueskill. The idea of a ranking system is much more of a placebo, and that's my problem with a lot of people who argue for it. Having it there won't make a game better automatically, it's not a cure for the game's problems. You have to make a balanced competitive game before you can rank people on it. Now if you planned to put a ranking system in maybe you'd make a more balanced competitive game, but you won't make a balanced competitive game BECAUSE of the ranking system and a game doesn't become balanced or competitive automatically just by having the ranking system. You need a good game first, then you can attach a ranking system. If the system you choose is visible Trueskill, you might want to place it apart from other playlists enough so that casual players have the choice of ignoring it. One thing I can tell you for sure is that the people who like ranking systems the most are the people who are good at the game. People who aren't so good aren't nearly as eager to be informed of that fact. Trueskill is accurate, and that's a problem for everyone who wants to be better at the game than they'll ever become. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectious Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 They really need to add it already. It cannot be that hard to add. There is no point in playing right now other than to play against a bunch of bad kids the whole time. I want to have a little challenge, otherwise it is no fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Initiate Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Here's an example of the type of people I usually expect to argue against when it comes to a ranking system. IF we're talking about visible Trueskill, then the idea of resetting it completely defeats the purpose. However Bungie did this in Reach and people are still stupid enough to think it's a good idea now. I apologize to anyone in this thread who may feel like I've spoken down to them, but when most of the people I see arguing for ranking systems are that dumb it's hard to go into a new discussion without a bias. The crux of the problem is that people don't understand what Trueskill is for, they think it's supposed to pat them on the head for doing well and slap their wrist for doing poorly, but it's a sorting system and it always has been. That's why I argue against it being visible, people don't like labels IRL, and what they don't realize is they actually don't like them in a game either. They don't like having a label that says "Child of dysfunctional parents" and they don't like having a label that says "This dude is bad at Halo" (Not that the two are in any way related). Good players want something telling people they're good, but average players generally don't, and awful players really don't. Trueskill sorts people accurately, so that label that says "This guy still occasionally wets the bed" isn't so appealing because it's true. Other labels people don't want (Because it's funny to think of everyone having this information visible to all): "This dude can't take a joke" "Down after one drink" "Assault Rifle rusher, 0.8 K/D" "Never been laid" "...Never will be" "Terrible at Tic-Tac-Toe (And Halo)" "Falls down on face often. Really." "Has Herpes" "Betrays teammates" "Sensitive about his mother. No, she's not dead or anything, your guess is as good as mine" "Bad temper, worse fighter" "Has quit more than half of his games of Halo 4" Lol, I could see making a thread for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkiee Posted January 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Nah man it's because I'm bad at Halo 4. Thank you for attempting to make it the game's fault, but I'm really pretty bad at this game, lol. What IS the game's fault is all the things that focus on equalling things out so everyone feels like a champ. Perhaps if they had planned to put in visible Trueskill from the start they wouldn't have been so stupid with their game design, but Halo 3 would have still been amazing without visible Trueskill. The idea of a ranking system is much more of a placebo, and that's my problem with a lot of people who argue for it. Having it there won't make a game better automatically, it's not a cure for the game's problems. You have to make a balanced competitive game before you can rank people on it. Now if you planned to put a ranking system in maybe you'd make a more balanced competitive game, but you won't make a balanced competitive game BECAUSE of the ranking system and a game doesn't become balanced or competitive automatically just by having the ranking system. You need a good game first, then you can attach a ranking system. If the system you choose is visible Trueskill, you might want to place it apart from other playlists enough so that casual players have the choice of ignoring it. One thing I can tell you for sure is that the people who like ranking systems the most are the people who are good at the game. People who aren't so good aren't nearly as eager to be informed of that fact. Trueskill is accurate, and that's a problem for everyone who wants to be better at the game than they'll ever become. I get your point, I really do but having the system visible is extremely important for me and a lot others mainly because playing at high levels like 35+ in H2 and 45+ in H3 is extremely difficult. You have to work really hard, there is no room for mistakes and every game is important because you have something to win and you have something to lose. You are also afraid of disappointing your teammates, there is a lot on the line. Playing Halo with no Rank to get higher is like playing poker without betting money, there is no excitement. I do agree with you that you have to make a good game before you make a ranking system and I have a good example. I was playing inf slayer on Haven with a full team of good players and we were up against a good team, when we reached 50-50 the game slowed down. It was slow until the other team got incineration cannon from a random ordnance drop and another guy got a binary rifle from his ordnance. And they won the matched because of that, the game gave them the victory. It's horrible if that kind of luck will be the difference maker in tight games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INENDOI Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Did I not say, "I'm not comparing Halo to college athletics, the workplace, or the military, but the concepts of rank in all those examples are essentially the same."? Even though I was only comparing the importance and concept of rank between examples, Halo is a sport like anything else. If you don't believe me, here is the merriam webster definition for sport: 1. sport (noun): a source of diversion: recreation Halo is indeed a sport and almost every single person uses the game for recreation and a source of diversion, just like any other sport. I never said it wasnt a sport. I was just saying that you cant compare ranking a college football team (or any other sport for that matter) to any system that would be usable in an online game like Halo. I must have read past that sentence saying that you werent trying to compare the two. My bad. -Please, sir. I prostrate myself before you and beg your forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upton889 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I never said it wasnt a sport. I was just saying that you cant compare ranking a college football team (or any other sport for that matter) to any system that would be usable in an online game like Halo. I must have read past that sentence saying that you werent trying to compare the two. My bad. -Please, sir. I prostrate myself before you and beg your forgiveness. It's cool. Just getting the point across. You are forgiven. Lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vStealthYx Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 i liked trueskill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upton889 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 If your only argument is "It must be right because someone did it once" then I'm not going to waste time constructing a response. I get tired of people arguing for this saying "you have no basis" when I just spent awhile making a post that explains things to you. Go look up Trueskill, learn about it, or quit asking for it. Nowhere in that link does it say "You aren't supposed to see it" but nowhere in that link does it say "You ARE supposed to see it." The choice is up to each developer, and the problems Halo 3 had with it combined with the problems other games DON'T have WITHOUT showing it is the start of my argument. The rest of my argument comes from a design-based understanding of the system and how seeing it isn't part of its original design, so seeing it keeps it from working properly. I make my arguments based on facts, experience, and my interpretation of those facts and experience. I have plenty of basis for my statements, it's why I make the statements. Obviously, if 343 or Bungie didn't say anywhere that "the ranking system is not supposed to be visible," then your statement is completely made up and you're basing your statement off your own false assumption. There is no fact in your statement whatsoever. I know exactly what trueskill is and I was there when it was at its finest. It works, and my post explaining the importance of ranks is all the evidence you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Initiate Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Obviously, if 343 or Bungie didn't say anywhere that "the ranking system is not supposed to be visible," then your statement is completely made up and you're basing your statement off your own false assumption. There is no fact in your statement whatsoever. I know exactly what trueskill is and I was there when it was at its finest. It works, and my post explaining the importance of ranks is all the evidence you need. Yes, YOUR post is all the evidence anyone should need. With such lanterns in the community I'm amazed we don't have it yet. It's also shocking that I should be so foolish as to continue to find my facts disagree with you, since your statements are automatically backed up and stamped in gold while my facts lose relevance as soon as you say so. Oh wait, if it weren't for people wasting everyone's time failing to understand the system like you are, then we would actually have visible Trueskill still because clowns like you wouldn't have made it miserable for everyone. Would it be nice to know exactly what kind of players I'm up against before a match? Yes it would. However since eventually in Halo 3 my evaluation of most players was "We'll see," I'm not convinced it'll make that big of a difference. Aside from the information that is occasionally helpful in telling me whether I should focus a little extra on one guy, I just don't think the game would automatically get better with a ranking system. However my opinion on the matter is irrelevant (My facts remain facts, FYI), because 343 will have CSR ready in April. I don't know whether CSR is actually going to be visible Trueskill, but I don't really care either. I never really cared, I just thought it was annoying how many people argued for visible Trueskill without knowing the first thing about it, like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Director Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 inb4 flame-war. Topic locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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