Make Wheelman Feel Meaningful

[CoopEhLoop]

Hey Everyone,

 

So I just had the most amazing game the other night. I had zero kills, zero deaths and 42 assists. I was driving smart by paying attention to where our teammates were and where the enemy was, had a good gunner and a good passenger (for part of it). Basically the dream team. I was really excited. I noticed the lack of acknowledgement of achievement after the match and found it rather deflating. The only medals you get are wheelman, and assist spree for five kills in a row...and maybe one or two others....but that was it. Points wise I didn't do the greatest either, finished middle of the pack but that isn't a big deal to me.

 

I think in the next game they need to work on this particular aspect. They have made tons of progress in regards to wheelmen in other game types (I'm thinking mostly of capture the flag where you get points for carrying the flag carrier, which is neat.) But if there can be all these different sprees for killing streaks, do you think that having assist sprees larger than five kills is a good idea? Maybe it's just me, but given how difficult it is to difficult it is to keep a vehicle alive the entire match against competent opponents I feel there should be some sort of cool achievement. To me, that game was perfection!

 

CoopEhLoop

[FleshBack]

I agree. I for one am sick of us Warthog drivers always getting the short end of the stick. what map were you playing BTW? I am gonna take a stab in the dark and say Harvest.

[l Xenoes l]

It's always been like this. The Gunner get's all the glory while the person who deserves all the credit is the driver for keeping the people alive.

[OMG Treason]

This is true, a gunner is nothing without the driver. A goalie without the defense is useless he will get picked apart.

[Real Talk]

Yea and a driver isnt really anything without a gunner. They both need each other to be effective.

[FleshBack]

Guys, guys. We're forgetting to give credit where credit is really due here: the warthog.

[Bloody Initiate]

I always big up good drivers, after all I want them to keep driving me so I slather them with praise.

[Greassy]

it does suck knowing you get the pipe when you are the driver.. me and my friend always do the same thing he guns and i drive, we are a team. i always end up assisting him in around 30 kills a game. wish us drivers would get more credit then just a wheelman :/

[Bloody Initiate]

Guys, guys. We're forgetting to give credit where credit is really due here: the warthog.

 

The Halo 4 Warthog is the biggest obstacle to Warthog kills bar none. That turret can barely kill a spartan before he 5-shots the gunner, and if you're actually close enough to kill anyone chances are you're EMPed then dead. 343 HATES vehicles as power weapons, and the regular Warthog is the weakest of the bunch. Players see those and say "easy double kill" or worse. You need only look at the commendations for vehicles for proof: Mongoose Destroyer, Mantis Destroyer, Banshee Destroyer, Warthog Destroyer, etc.

 

Where's the commendation for killing someone with your vehicle outside of splatters? BTW every good operator knows splatters are extremely high-risk and surviving in a vehicle means only splattering when you must. Instead we get the Wheelman commendation, which to be fair credits Wheelmen, but also people who jack vehicles and hog drivers who get 3 people in their hog and then go for splatters which is the absolute worst thing I can think of doing in a Warthog.

 

The only vehicle that escaped 343's barefaced hatred of Halo vehicles was their own original vehicle, the Mantis, which is still very easy to take down but at least has a shield system which means it can play like a very slow spartan. Hopefully in Halo 5 they put shields on all vehicles and give the rest of the vehicles the same love they gave the Mantis.

 

As far as 343 is concerned if you're not using a vehicle for shenanigans or the occasional objective, you're doing it wrong, which is awful for vehicle fans.

 

In Halo 3 I joined a vehicle-focused group, the Halo Wheelmen, and I've felt like we were under siege in both Reach and especially Halo 4. They've made the hog so terrible that you don't dare get into it even with extremely an good driver and gunner. The new tactics for vehicles involve sticking to the outskirts of the battlefield and avoiding all direct confrontation with any more than one single foot soldier. That's not a joke, the way you do well with vehicles in Halo 4 is you play as cowardly as possible and you avoid engaging any more than one guy at a time. It's disgusting feeling like by getting in the hog I'm being selfish and ignoring my team. It used to be necessary on most maps, it was a powerful asset, now it feels like you're indulging yourself to even try to make it work. You feel like you'd be better off going on foot with your driver and teamshooting. Two players are required to operate a chaingun hog, and the way they play is the way you'd play by yourself with camo and an assault rifle.

 

Badass vehicles like the Gauss don't count, they're on a different level and measured by a different standard. The chaingun hog needs a serious buff, preferrably a much more powerful turret and a serious reduction in vulnerability to splash damage. At least then people would be required to actually stick the hog and actually hit the hog instead of just hitting near it to annihilate it. They'd also have to take it seriously instead of just strolling toward it with plasma pistols at the ready. You often can't kill a spartan before he EMPs and sticks the hog at least once. The first stick flips/turns you and the second one kills you. Usually you trade kills, which means the foot soldier won because he got two kills and the hog got one.

 

Sorry, I've been deeply frustrated with how vehicles have been handled since Reach, decided to rant on it.

[DoctorB77]

I think it would be cool to get medals for driving a warthog and keeping your gunner alive. Intervals of 1 min, 3 min, 5 min and 10 min.

[Chris Hansen]

I hate how the warthog handles in this game. It feels like a ford F150 or something. I miss the fast manuverable hog that power slid all over the place.

 

Vehicles have a hard time particualry in this game because of plasma pistol and plasma grenade spawns...in BTB vehicles don't live more then briefly in the first couple of seconds of the game, unless someone made a critical error.

 

Make it so the hog's turret doesnt ******* overheat. Ever since that got added it just doesn't feel like the warthog anymore.

[CoopEhLoop]

@Back, it was big team battle...Vortex I think it's called.

 

This thread took a little different direction but that's cool. If we are going to talk vehicle design philosophy, it seems that they want vehicles to not be power weapons as much as they want them to serve support roles. In previous games, we could use the vehicles in offensive aggressive playstyles. That isn't really an option anymore. The Covenant vehicles seems to be the weakest of the bunch (in strength.)

 

To use this support weapons more effectively you have to pay attention to map orientation and where the enemy is. I have found that the enemy is attracted to vehicles. Tantalized by the idea of getting a double kill. Well you can use that to your teams advantage. If you have teammates that keep your vehicle in eye sight, anyone that tries to come destroy is is easy pickings. If the enemy ignores you and tries to take out your ground troops your gunner lays down suppression fire, either killing the enemy or weakening them up for easy clean up kills for the ground troops.

 

That being said I would make a few changes to the vehicles if I had a choice.

 

Wrath---a little extra armor

Ghost---a lot of extra armor, but more driver venerability (should be able to hit the driver's head facing the ghost at the same level)

Warthog---increase armor so that it takes three plasma grenades to destroy OR faster acceleration and increased responsiveness

---gat hog (one of the following)

decrease gunner venerability (increase survival chances in mid range battles with DMR's)

increase fire rate of gat

increase range of gat

---missle hog

make the missiles function like the mantis, with either a single shot (more accurate) or overload barrage (with a spread)

---gauss hog

no other changes needed

Scorpion---increase mobility and armor slightly

Mongoose---increase top speed, reduce armor substantially

Banshee---increase armor slightly, not to Reach levels, but make it a formidable task to take down

Mantis---Make it a one shot Spartan laser kill, with how maneuverable it is a good driver won't be taken out by one at the current two shot

[ProudDrunkIrish]

I have to say i always thank a good driver for their part by pm after the game, its the least one can do..

 

Adding a few medals that give you more points would be good, say warthog spree, frenzy, riot etc... These would show how good a driver you are and maybe even more like 'driving God' if you break say 20 wheelmans in 1 life.

 

You do have the wheelman commendation to think of I suppose so that is something, as for vehicle strengths well they are all up for debate, have to say the overheat on the Hog is silly and could be removed.

I used to think the banshee was weak and in some open lvl's it is but say on exile you can wreak havoc with it as is so any change would have to be slight.

Mantis replaced tank in some lvl's so 2 x spartan is about right, if your team take its shields and a little of its life it is still only a 1HK.

Making the Hog stronger would be bad just fix the Machine gun version from overheat hell the gauss is dangerous with a good driver and gunner.

[vStealthYx]

yeh i suppose i agree