The Tyranny of Noobs

[TiCtaC_x]

Disclaimer: I'm new to the forum but have been playing halo since CE. I realize what I will say may have been already said

 

There's a reason why Halo has fallen behind CoD. There are reasons why it is behind Minecraft statistically on XBL. H2 dominated XBL. What has changed?

 

I think this all started way back in H2 when Bungie decided to get rid of Clanmatches all-together. That's when things started to go downhill. The catering to casual fish. The environment became too competitive for those that wished to play once a week and still be seen on the same level as the competitive community which made Halo the international success that it used to be.

 

And starting with H3, we saw the death of competition on this game, with the weird, clunky, unappealing matchmaking ranking system. In this manner, Bungie was acting as a bleeding heart liberal, trying to blur the line and "level" the playing field between the truly skilled and the non-skilled casuals who aren't as invested in the game to begin with. And now with Halo 4, any semblance of a delineation between skill and no skill has been vanquished. We are now all the same, no matter how good any of us are. The current "ranking" system is a complete rip-off of CoD, highlighting how much time is spent playing the game as opposed to how good you actually are. The level goes up to 130 I believe, which is completely arbitrary and shows that 343 made no attempt whatsoever to make it psychologically satisfying in the least

 

Not to mention the actual playlists. Where is double team? Team Snipers? Where is team hardcore? What is a zombie playlist doing there? That belongs in customs. Team Swat? Belongs in customs. But of course, the crap maps don't really lend themselves to good playlists to begin with.

 

The noobs and casuals have killed the Halo community and the game as a whole, by whining and complainging that they were not as good as the high levels in H2. The developers caved and caved until you have what you see before you, which is no representation for actual skill whatsoever.

 

The ranking system is a joke. Their nonsense reason for getting rid of it is even worse; you will have people cheating in this game with or without the ranking system. All you've done at this point is equate a noob with a God, by allowing the noob to play all day and receive the same satisfaction, the same "ranking" as the God.

 

This is what led to the MLG disconnect. They will never come back. Not directly because of the clan and ranking issue, but indirectly. Its the culture. Its the developers acting as fat cats on wall street, thinking only of profit instead of giving the dedicated community what they need to keep interest in the game. I have no interest in ranking to 130; it is meaningless.

 

They of course signed with Virgin, and the first tournament is of the same ilk. Play alot and you win. Doesn't matter if you're any good.

 

I urge 343 to get rid of the flashy armor, the stupid experience points, etc. Bring back a simple, yet appealing, ranking system as seen in H2. Show that you care about the real community, the community that helped make this into an E-sport. Stop catering to noobs. There's no reason not to have Clans or clan matches. If noobs feel as though Clans ostracize them and make the field too competitive, so be it. If they feel its not fair that they can't have a cool rank like the good clans, let them practice more.

 

But the answer is not to get rid of all these things all-together because of so-called "cheating" or so-called "casuals". Back in my day we called them noobs and that's what they are. I swear, the left-wing liberals ideology has made everyone soft. People don't even T-bag as much anymore. I hate what this has become

 

/rant

[ioniablackbird]

Because if you want to make money you make a game more people can pick up and play. Hardcore is the minority, casual players buy more games. It would make no sense from a business sense to make it more noob unfriendly

[wjc3688]

You seem to have a rather warped view of the way that these things work. Clan matches weren't removed because "noobs" thought they were being "ostracized"--there were plenty of other playlists for them and I very much doubt that any of these "casual" players cared that clanmatch playlists existed. Clan matches were removed because no one (ok technically, very few) people played them.

 

You also seem to have this idea of Halo 2 as some kind of ascendant gaming format. In reality, Halo 2 only seemed so dominant because at its time CoD 4 had not yet been released, and no one knew that anything else besides the Halo formula could really be done.

 

The fact that the advent of CoD led to Halo declining in popularity and eventually shifting its gameplay more towards that of CoD simply goes to prove that only a small minority of people cared about "hardcore" gameplay and "true skill" in the first place. These games were made to just kick back and shoot people for fun, and that's what most folks buy them for. I don't think it's fair to degrade such people just because they aren't interested in attending tournaments.

[WonderWombat]

There's a reason why Halo has fallen behind CoD. There are reasons why it is behind Minecraft statistically on XBL. H2 dominated XBL. What has changed?

This is a ridiculously easy question to answer. In 2004-2005 Halo 2 was the only big game on xbox live. People saw this and wanted to make xbox live games themselves.

 

Expecting Halo to be better than a game as large as Call of Duty is foolish.

[TiCtaC_x]

This is a ridiculously easy question to answer. In 2004-2005 Halo 2 was the only big game on xbox live. People saw this and wanted to make xbox live games themselves.

 

Expecting Halo to be better than a game as large as Call of Duty is foolish.

It was the only big game because of its merits. It simply drew a larger crowd than most other games, and that is to its credit. Halo did not become a success "by default" as if it was the only FPS on the market...

[HappehNinja]

People like to play with easy-to-win methods. There will be "noobs" in almost any video game that you can find. The only way to come around them is to examine their methods and to look for a way around them. Another way is to join them, but I wouldn't bother doing so.

[WonderWombat]

It was the only big game because of its merits. It simply drew a larger crowd than most other games, and that is to its credit. Halo did not become a success "by default" as if it was the only FPS on the market...

I don't see where you are trying to go with that statement.

[Caboose The Ace]

an ovious reason is

 

years ago halo 2 came out but this time campain wasnt the main atraction multiplayer was along with true skill the game was a succsess

 

halo 3 comes out once more blows the water away and is a bit hit but then

 

cod comes out and comptess with halo

 

so as u can see for 2 and 3 they where the big games out but now cod battfeild are big as well

[Real Talk]

It was the only big game because of its merits. It simply drew a larger crowd than most other games, and that is to its credit. Halo did not become a success "by default" as if it was the only FPS on the market...

 

Yea it was an awsome game but it had zero competition back in the day. There was no CoD or Battlefield. Population is now split among several games since there is more options.

[Cassi]

 

It was the only big game because of its merits. It simply drew a larger crowd than most other games, and that is to its credit. Halo did not become a success "by default" as if it was the only FPS on the market...

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[TornadoFlame]

an ovious reason is

 

years ago halo 2 came out but this time campain wasnt the main atraction multiplayer was along with true skill the game was a succsess

 

halo 3 comes out once more blows the water away and is a bit hit but then

 

cod comes out and comptess with halo

 

so as u can see for 2 and 3 they where the big games out but now cod battfeild are big as well

cod comes out and halo decided to look more at cod for awnsers instead of competing with there own stuff they looked at other games which has been this games death.

 

Yea it was an awsome game but it had zero competition back in the day. There was no CoD or Battlefield. Population is now split among several games since there is more options.

reach still managed 1million strong. with mw2 and such out.. i just feel they gave up on how halo was and tried to make it how its not suppose to be.

 

This is a ridiculously easy question to answer. In 2004-2005 Halo 2 was the only big game on xbox live. People saw this and wanted to make xbox live games themselves.

 

Expecting Halo to be better than a game as large as Call of Duty is foolish.

i beleive if halo 4 went back to the roots like halo it would easyly wipe out cod.

 

You seem to have a rather warped view of the way that these things work. Clan matches weren't removed because "noobs" thought they were being "ostracized"--there were plenty of other playlists for them and I very much doubt that any of these "casual" players cared that clanmatch playlists existed. Clan matches were removed because no one (ok technically, very few) people played them.

 

You also seem to have this idea of Halo 2 as some kind of ascendant gaming format. In reality, Halo 2 only seemed so dominant because at its time CoD 4 had not yet been released, and no one knew that anything else besides the Halo formula could really be done.

 

The fact that the advent of CoD led to Halo declining in popularity and eventually shifting its gameplay more towards that of CoD simply goes to prove that only a small minority of people cared about "hardcore" gameplay and "true skill" in the first place. These games were made to just kick back and shoot people for fun, and that's what most folks buy them for. I don't think it's fair to degrade such people just because they aren't interested in attending tournaments.

yes thats where bungie messed up instead of accutaly using there own stuff aganist cod they decided to just try to mimic it and pray they get more gamers then 343 took that to a new level and here we are with a cod based game with only 40-60k people online. now.

[TiCtaC_x]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

What exactly are you contending, that Halo had no competition from other games whatsoever? You sound confused

 

People like to play with easy-to-win methods. There will be "noobs" in almost any video game that you can find. The only way to come around them is to examine their methods and to look for a way around them. Another way is to join them, but I wouldn't bother doing so.

I think people want to hop on a game like halo and expect to be on the same skill level as someone who practces and gets better. When said noob gets owned and can't compete, it complains to the developers. The developers cave and poof! No more clans, no more pro-style playlists, and no rankings whatsoever. Notice how in H3, rankings became watered down, and now in H4, they have been completely removed. It's based on play-time now, instead of skill. Nothing separates a good player from a terrible player in terms of rank

[Twinreaper]

TicTac, first off if your gonna make a thread that is trying to point out factual flaws or points, make sure you do your research. Nothing about your post contained anything factual. Inf act, everything you stated was plain out wrong, and very insensitive.

 

Clans were not removed because as you stated, "Noobs and the like whined and complained:. Clans were removed in Halo 3 and Halo in general because the statistical data Bungie collected, stated that only about 25% of the population actively used it. Many people started strong with this feature, but as time went on, clan members had less time to organize and utilize the feature. Having the feature not only took up bandwidth, but server resources that could be better used. This is the fact behind why they were removed. Please refer to the Halo 3 and 2 VidOCS to actually hear them say just this.

 

I'm not sure what your specific beef with Ranking is, but you quite obviously can't enjoy a game, nor define a game as competitive without a rank system. Why? Competition starts with YOUR mindset, not some flashy icon or number next to your name, or the promise of one to increase your silly little E-***** size. A rank system is NOT needed. All a rank system has done to the community is divide between those who are casual players and hardcore. So what if you get paired up with someone who is of less skill? Ranks are not perfect. there are literally thousands of gamers worldwide who would likely be of superior skill, but simply lack the time to invest in the game to even rank up anyway. So all you would be doing with a rank system like Halo 2, is again as you stated like COD..."Catering to people who invest time spent playing". How would someone who is a 50 in terms of skill, ever get to a 50 rank if they cannot play as much as the next guy? Kinda like a double standard there if you know what I mean.

 

Next, why are you so narrow minded that you must always refer to Noobs and whiners as the reason why Halo has lost it's edge? Last time I checked, 343i catered to you supposed "True skilled fans" and removed bloom to satisfy you. And guess what....you still weren't happy. A game is not based on what population the developer wants to cater to, it is based on what formula works overall. Some toes will be stepped on, but you absolutely cannot please ever member of the fan base. And just so you know, playing MLG or whatever, does not dictate if you are a fan or not. I find your implied definition throughout this post, to be not only condescending to many, but just plain out rude. My son has played Halo since age 6 when I first taught him. Reach and 4 are the two titles where he really dug in and got his feet wet. But by your limited view, he is a "noob". So what am I at age 34? An ancient noob? Please....that's just pathetic to callout people with terms like that. All it does is make it look as if your masking some of your own weaknesses or insecurities in hopes to come out looking like a "god".

 

Halo 4 and the playlists are a direct reflection of the overall population of Reach's. Reach gave us every playlist we wanted and we used them...some more than others. because Halo 4 was rushed in some ways, they had to decide to only release and support the MOST popular gametypes. Sorry if those gametypes weren't what you liked, but you alone are not enough to get the numbers up to make them popular. Perhaps you should have invited some you elite MLG OMGIMSOP***INCOOL hardcore peeps to help get the numbers up. Don't try to complain or point the playlists or playstyle to new players or casuals...it just makes you look dumb and sad.

 

Lastly, Halo 4 as a title was a failure. I can point to at least 1,000 different issues that the game has in very long detail (everyone here knows me and knows this). The fact is, yes it was 343's first title, and in another thread I defended them saying Halo 4 was "their" Halo 1. I cannot defend those who come in here and blast away without fact or solid reasoning, but that does not mean you or anyone else has the right to criticize them for it. This is a COMMUNITY FORUM. You have to take all aspects and all types when you belong to something of this magnitude. Similar to how I am letting you off easy with my reply. And yes...this is me being easy on someone.

 

To summize, perhaps you need to go back to Bungie and Waypoint and view all the VidOCS and Commentary Behind the Scenes videos, so you can be a bit mroe informed before you try something like this again.... TL;DR

[TornadoFlame]

"I'm not sure what your specific beef with Ranking is, but you quite obviously can't enjoy a game, nor define a game as competitive without a rank system. Why? Competition starts with YOUR mindset, not some flashy icon or number next to your name, or the promise of one to increase your silly little E-***** size. "

 

a ranking system is so i know what there level is and how i fair aganist them simple is that Bragging rights sure? but everyone has bragging rights Thats why when you put facebook pictures on facebook you don't put ones your ugly pretty sure you put your best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Halo 4 and the playlists are a direct reflection of the overall population of Reach's. Reach gave us every playlist we wanted and we used them...some more than others. because Halo 4 was rushed in some ways, they had to decide to only release and support the MOST popular gametypes. Sorry if those gametypes weren't what you liked, but you alone are not enough to get the numbers up to make them popular. Perhaps you should have invited some you elite MLG OMGIMSOP***INCOOL hardcore peeps to help get the numbers up. Don't try to complain or point the playlists or playstyle to new players or casuals...it just makes you look dumb and sad."

 

this must be a joke right? so team doubles,multiteam, grifball,swat,snipers Were less popular then regicide? oddball and ctf? Just curious. but i do agree halo 4 was rushed.

 

didn't wanna quote the whole thing for 2 simple things.

[Skys]

I believe 343i..Is currently catering to most requests. It's not like they are not making improvements. And remember it's there first attempt at recreating our halo universe. Give them a few more months and our game will be up to date with everything we will need.

[TiCtaC_x]

TicTac, first off if your gonna make a thread that is trying to point out factual flaws or points, make sure you do your research. Nothing about your post contained anything factual. Inf act, everything you stated was plain out wrong, and very insensitive.

 

Clans were not removed because as you stated, "Noobs and the like whined and complained:. Clans were removed in Halo 3 and Halo in general because the statistical data Bungie collected, stated that only about 25% of the population actively used it. Many people started strong with this feature, but as time went on, clan members had less time to organize and utilize the feature. Having the feature not only took up bandwidth, but server resources that could be better used. This is the fact behind why they were removed. Please refer to the Halo 3 and 2 VidOCS to actually hear them say just this.

 

I'm not sure what your specific beef with Ranking is, but you quite obviously can't enjoy a game, nor define a game as competitive without a rank system. Why? Competition starts with YOUR mindset, not some flashy icon or number next to your name, or the promise of one to increase your silly little E-***** size. A rank system is NOT needed. All a rank system has done to the community is divide between those who are casual players and hardcore. So what if you get paired up with someone who is of less skill? Ranks are not perfect. there are literally thousands of gamers worldwide who would likely be of superior skill, but simply lack the time to invest in the game to even rank up anyway. So all you would be doing with a rank system like Halo 2, is again as you stated like COD..."Catering to people who invest time spent playing". How would someone who is a 50 in terms of skill, ever get to a 50 rank if they cannot play as much as the next guy? Kinda like a double standard there if you know what I mean.

 

Next, why are you so narrow minded that you must always refer to Noobs and whiners as the reason why Halo has lost it's edge? Last time I checked, 343i catered to you supposed "True skilled fans" and removed bloom to satisfy you. And guess what....you still weren't happy. A game is not based on what population the developer wants to cater to, it is based on what formula works overall. Some toes will be stepped on, but you absolutely cannot please ever member of the fan base. And just so you know, playing MLG or whatever, does not dictate if you are a fan or not. I find your implied definition throughout this post, to be not only condescending to many, but just plain out rude. My son has played Halo since age 6 when I first taught him. Reach and 4 are the two titles where he really dug in and got his feet wet. But by your limited view, he is a "noob". So what am I at age 34? An ancient noob? Please....that's just pathetic to callout people with terms like that. All it does is make it look as if your masking some of your own weaknesses or insecurities in hopes to come out looking like a "god".

 

Halo 4 and the playlists are a direct reflection of the overall population of Reach's. Reach gave us every playlist we wanted and we used them...some more than others. because Halo 4 was rushed in some ways, they had to decide to only release and support the MOST popular gametypes. Sorry if those gametypes weren't what you liked, but you alone are not enough to get the numbers up to make them popular. Perhaps you should have invited some you elite MLG OMGIMSOP***INCOOL hardcore peeps to help get the numbers up. Don't try to complain or point the playlists or playstyle to new players or casuals...it just makes you look dumb and sad.

 

Lastly, Halo 4 as a title was a failure. I can point to at least 1,000 different issues that the game has in very long detail (everyone here knows me and knows this). The fact is, yes it was 343's first title, and in another thread I defended them saying Halo 4 was "their" Halo 1. I cannot defend those who come in here and blast away without fact or solid reasoning, but that does not mean you or anyone else has the right to criticize them for it. This is a COMMUNITY FORUM. You have to take all aspects and all types when you belong to something of this magnitude. Similar to how I am letting you off easy with my reply. And yes...this is me being easy on someone.

 

To summize, perhaps you need to go back to Bungie and Waypoint and view all the VidOCS and Commentary Behind the Scenes videos, so you can be a bit mroe informed before you try something like this again.... TL;DR

[EpicBeaver]

After halo 2 everything fell apart. Halo 3 sparked its continue. If you give halo 2 more graphics and a few more game modes, better than cod. Make cheesy rip-offs to make noobs happy, it sparks the suckyness of the halo franchise.

[Cassi]

TicTac, first off if your gonna make a thread that is trying to point out factual flaws or points, make sure you do your research. Nothing about your post contained anything factual. Inf act, everything you stated was plain out wrong, and very insensitive.

 

Clans were not removed because as you stated, "Noobs and the like whined and complained:. Clans were removed in Halo 3 and Halo in general because the statistical data Bungie collected, stated that only about 25% of the population actively used it. Many people started strong with this feature, but as time went on, clan members had less time to organize and utilize the feature. Having the feature not only took up bandwidth, but server resources that could be better used. This is the fact behind why they were removed. Please refer to the Halo 3 and 2 VidOCS to actually hear them say just this.

 

I'm not sure what your specific beef with Ranking is, but you quite obviously can't enjoy a game, nor define a game as competitive without a rank system. Why? Competition starts with YOUR mindset, not some flashy icon or number next to your name, or the promise of one to increase your silly little E-***** size. A rank system is NOT needed. All a rank system has done to the community is divide between those who are casual players and hardcore. So what if you get paired up with someone who is of less skill? Ranks are not perfect. there are literally thousands of gamers worldwide who would likely be of superior skill, but simply lack the time to invest in the game to even rank up anyway. So all you would be doing with a rank system like Halo 2, is again as you stated like COD..."Catering to people who invest time spent playing". How would someone who is a 50 in terms of skill, ever get to a 50 rank if they cannot play as much as the next guy? Kinda like a double standard there if you know what I mean.

 

Next, why are you so narrow minded that you must always refer to Noobs and whiners as the reason why Halo has lost it's edge? Last time I checked, 343i catered to you supposed "True skilled fans" and removed bloom to satisfy you. And guess what....you still weren't happy. A game is not based on what population the developer wants to cater to, it is based on what formula works overall. Some toes will be stepped on, but you absolutely cannot please ever member of the fan base. And just so you know, playing MLG or whatever, does not dictate if you are a fan or not. I find your implied definition throughout this post, to be not only condescending to many, but just plain out rude. My son has played Halo since age 6 when I first taught him. Reach and 4 are the two titles where he really dug in and got his feet wet. But by your limited view, he is a "noob". So what am I at age 34? An ancient noob? Please....that's just pathetic to callout people with terms like that. All it does is make it look as if your masking some of your own weaknesses or insecurities in hopes to come out looking like a "god".

 

Halo 4 and the playlists are a direct reflection of the overall population of Reach's. Reach gave us every playlist we wanted and we used them...some more than others. because Halo 4 was rushed in some ways, they had to decide to only release and support the MOST popular gametypes. Sorry if those gametypes weren't what you liked, but you alone are not enough to get the numbers up to make them popular. Perhaps you should have invited some you elite MLG OMGIMSOP***INCOOL hardcore peeps to help get the numbers up. Don't try to complain or point the playlists or playstyle to new players or casuals...it just makes you look dumb and sad.

 

Lastly, Halo 4 as a title was a failure. I can point to at least 1,000 different issues that the game has in very long detail (everyone here knows me and knows this). The fact is, yes it was 343's first title, and in another thread I defended them saying Halo 4 was "their" Halo 1. I cannot defend those who come in here and blast away without fact or solid reasoning, but that does not mean you or anyone else has the right to criticize them for it. This is a COMMUNITY FORUM. You have to take all aspects and all types when you belong to something of this magnitude. Similar to how I am letting you off easy with my reply. And yes...this is me being easy on someone.

 

To summize, perhaps you need to go back to Bungie and Waypoint and view all the VidOCS and Commentary Behind the Scenes videos, so you can be a bit mroe informed before you try something like this again.... TL;DR

 

Someone give this man a medal.

 

Or two.

 

 

 

Yeah, somehow I was expecting a response like this from you. Explains a lot.

[EpicBeaver]

 

 

Someone give this man a medal.

 

Or two.

 

 

 

Yeah, somehow I was expecting a response like this from you. Explains a lot.

xD

[Baeztoberfest]

This whole topic has to have violated the code of conduct somehow... Lock this nonsense please. I know everyone is entitled to an opinion but not when it's meaningless unsupported by any fact whatsoever dribble used to slander other members. If you didn't read what people have to say about YOUR TOPIC, what does that say about you and how much your opinion is worth? Just saying. Please lock.

 

/drops mic

[TiCtaC_x]

Basic reading comprehension is required to gain a full understanding of my OP. When I speak of the tyranny of noobs, I am not claiming that their whining was directly related to the removal of hardcore playlists and Halo 4: Call of duty Edition. What I am saying is that the noob culture has created an environment similar to that of a fantasy society from the mind of a bleeding-heart democratic literal. That is to say, there can be no judgements, no acknowledgement of good or bad, better or worse, skill or no skill.

 

That culture is what brought us the current ranking system (if you can even call it that). On the face of it, their reason for creating an experience based leveling system makes since; they don't want cheaters lagging and bridging for wins. It seems legit. However I see a much deeper problem, and that is the developer's aversion and hostility toward highly skilled players who kick *** and talk ish. In my mind, this is an integral part of a competitive FPS and without it, there's little point in playing. The developer's catering to "casuals" who aren't as invested in the game is what is behind most of these changes that we see before us.

 

If you are that much of a simpleton to honestly believe that we needed to take out ranks all-together based on skill because of "cheating", I don't know what to tell you. There will be cheating either way. Madden has a standard ranking system, and they found a way to keep it to a minimum. They didn't get rid of ranks completely in 2006 when people were able to force an opponent out of a match. They figured it out and implemented change.

[Cassi]

Basic reading comprehension is required to gain a full understanding of my OP. When I speak of the tyranny of noobs, I am not claiming that their whining was directly related to the removal of hardcore playlists and Halo 4: Call of duty Edition. What I am saying is that the noob culture has created an environment similar to that of a fantasy society from the mind of a bleeding-heart democratic literal. That is to say, there can be no judgements, no acknowledgement of good or bad, better or worse, skill or no skill.

 

That culture is what brought us the current ranking system (if you can even call it that). On the face of it, their reason for creating an experience based leveling system makes since; they don't want cheaters lagging and bridging for wins. It seems legit. However I see a much deeper problem, and that is the developer's aversion and hostility toward highly skilled players who kick *** and talk ish. In my mind, this is an integral part of a competitive FPS and without it, there's little point in playing. The developer's catering to "casuals" who aren't as invested in the game is what is behind most of these changes that we see before us.

 

If you are that much of a simpleton to honestly believe that we needed to take out ranks all-together based on skill because of "cheating", I don't know what to tell you. There will be cheating either way. Madden has a standard ranking system, and they found a way to keep it to a minimum. They didn't get rid of ranks completely in 2006 when people were able to force an opponent out of a match. They figured it out and implemented change.

 

Just stop...

[Protopip3]

people complain that the game is to hard and people complain that the game is to easy for everyone. people complain no matter what... its a video game! get over it. video games are supposed to be fun.