Why aim assist cannot be removed...

[Delpen9]

Removing the aim assist wouldn't necessarily imply skill but the players eye-hand ability. If this were to become reality then the game would need lower controller sensitivities to combat the lack of aim assist. Needless to say, lowering the amount of aim assist would be useless because the lowered controller sensitivity would be an equal amount of aim assist all on its own resulting in slow moving gameplay with the same amount of aim as it would be WITH the aim assist. I guess you are trying to say to keep the same controller sensitivities but remove the aim assist? This would cause frustration across the gaming industry, probably eradicating the casual gaming community and severely reducing sales of the game. As a result, the company who decided to create the game without aim assist would go out of business...

 

You may try to comeback saying that you should have an option to remove aim assist or atleast reduce it. Well, this wouldn't necessarily work too well. A change in aim assist would cause the player to ruin their already predetermined shooting style. It is so that aim assist is just a defined area of which the controller sensitivity is lowered, meaning that when you are shooting at your opponant your sensitivity is lowered to a factor of unknown. If the aim assist was changed then you are just changing the controller sensitivity for a defined area. Therefor, the sudden loss of aim assist would be like trying to change your aim assist from 1 to 8 in the defined area. You should be able to adapt to the lack of aim assist but with each interval between no aim assist and having aim assist would result in a temporary adjustment (3 days to 4 weeks adjustment period) period for aiming ability. This would most likely create a fine line between aim assist players and non-aim assist players with aim assist players having the unfair advantage in gameplay. The two groups would have to play with people withing their own aim assist range. Aim assist players would become the norm and the non-aim assist players would become the minority leading to contreversy throughout the gaming community, competitive and casual.

 

 

 

 

This is one of my post from another topic and it was directly intended to one person in general. I would just like it to get out so more people can read it. Feel free to say what you want!

[FleshBack]

You know my post was sarcastic right? smh

 

I should like, just put [/sarcasm] at the end of some my posts seeing as how my sense of humor is so dry. Sorry you posted this in response to me. If they took off aim assist I may well give up on this game, I am not that good enough of a player in the first place. Aim assist is the only thing supporting my playing.

[Delpen9]

You know my post was sarcastic right? smh

 

I should like, just put [/sarcasm] at the end of sone of my posts seeing as how my sense of humor is so dry.

I spent all that time making the post so I might as well make a thread about it seeing as that I know some people who said the exact same thing about aim assist, yet, they weren't joking about it. I'm just trying to educate everyone about why aim assist shouldn't be removed and my reasoning behind it.

[FleshBack]

Well, I see no harm in that. Just know FleshBack went on the record saying Aim Assist is good (to an extent). It is easy to misinterpret people's meaning on the Internet. I figured the fact I used the word "noob" was a dead giveaway cuz I generally don't use the term. And I figured the phrase, "Halo doesn't need the population numbers anyway..." spoke for itself.

 

Anyway, once I seen the, "this is directed at one person directly" part I just had to defend myself. "Well I know who he is talking about!!!", I thought to myself, lol.

[Delpen9]

Well, I see no harm in that. Just know FleshBack went on the record saying Aim Assist is good (to an extent). It is easy to misinterpret people's meaning on the Internet. I figured the fact I used the word "noob" was a dead giveaway cuz I generally don't use the term. And I figured the phrase, "Halo doesn't need the population numbers anyway..." spoke for itself.

 

Anyway, once I seen the, "this is directed at one person directly" part I just had to defend myself. "Well I know who he is talking about!!!", I thought to myself, lol.

I only said that because the post was worded weird, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it.

[ProudDrunkIrish]

Well I have to disagree in the most part, aim assist helps players this I do agree with.

Does it mean less skill required, Yes is the answer to this

Does lowering sensitivity equate to same as aim assist, hell no where did you find that rubbish lol..

Does reducing aim assist work, yes it would work just fine.

Aim assist just reduces sensitivity, no there is an autoaim built in I am sure you have all had you scope leave your target cause another enemy ran past and it followed him!!!!

 

So yes autoaim/aim assist does mean less skill and could be toned down, any player develops their shooting style in a game based on the game features, as long as it was impemented from the start then players would adapt quite easily.

 

Saying it would have nothing to do with skill just hand eye coordination, is like saying a race car driver hasn't got more skill than another he just has faster reactions!! In FPS hand eye coordination is the most important skill.

 

Now Aim assist present in a more reduced way than we see in H4 would be a good thing in my opinion, not the total removal of it however. But thats just my opinion and it is open to scrutiny..

[Delpen9]

Well I have to disagree in the most part, aim assist helps players this I do agree with.

Does it mean less skill required, Yes is the answer to this

Does lowering sensitivity equate to same as aim assist, hell no where did you find that rubbish lol..

Does reducing aim assist work, yes it would work just fine.

Aim assist just reduces sensitivity, no there is an autoaim built in I am sure you have all had you scope leave your target cause another enemy ran past and it followed him!!!!

 

So yes autoaim/aim assist does mean less skill and could be toned down, any player develops their shooting style in a game based on the game features, as long as it was impemented from the start then players would adapt quite easily.

 

Saying it would have nothing to do with skill just hand eye coordination, is like saying a race car driver hasn't got more skill than another he just has faster reactions!! In FPS hand eye coordination is the most important skill.

 

Now Aim assist present in a more reduced way than we see in H4 would be a good thing in my opinion, not the total removal of it however. But thats just my opinion and it is open to scrutiny..

. Aim assist is in fact a more specialized form of controller sensitivity withing a defined area. Aim assist only has an effect when your reticle is moving as so does the controller sensitivity. Aim assist lowers the speed of reticle movememt when touching said object just how the contoller sensitivity ALWAYS regulates controller speed. If aim assist is exhibited as a "pull" like you say it is, then, while you are moving your reticle in one direction while you pass a target moving in the opposite direction your reticle should be pulled in the direction of the moving object, but no, the reticle movement is only slowed. The reticle will only move with the target if it is moving in the same direction as the target and then the movement must be in unison. The speed of the reticle would be based on the movement of the object while the movement of the reticle inside the object is based on the strength oof the aim assist sensitivity. Therefor, this means that aim assist is not a "pull" but an area of controlled velocity, just like controller sensitivity.

 

Therefor, if aim assist is so evenly correlated with controller sensitivity then it should be exposed to the same factors. Controller sensitivity doesn't necessarily imply skill but eye-hand coordination(The ability to relay visual stimuli to the brains occipital lobe to be transmitted to the basil ganglie[cerebellum] to cause an electrical impulse in the nervous cells to moving muscles) Believe it or not, people will not do this as efficiently as others meaning that their precison and accuracy would be decreased(slight to moderate dysfunction). Meaning that no matter how much practice they put into the game, they may never be able to shoot as properly as those who just started playing. On another note, skill is much more than aiming ability. Someone who is godly in accuracy can be terribly massacred by someone who focused on map domination. People who can't shoot as well may possibly need more aim assist to shoot as accuretly as others.

 

If aim assist were completely removed, a way to combat that would be to raise the controller sensitivity to that of which the aim assist was. Gameplay would eb slower yet the ability to aim would not change.

 

Additionally, I noted that I didn't want the aim assist removed nor have the ability to personalize your own aim assist for secifically stated reasons. Finally, in now way did I say I wanted to remove the aim assist nor did I detest lowering the aim assist.

 

Bottom line is, aim assist is controller sensitivity in a defined area.

[ProudDrunkIrish]

The pull I describe is not confined the the criteria you attach to your description of aim assist which leaves me thinking that either they have an added feature or your beautifully detailed description is somewhat inaccurate..

 

Thanks for the general info though. It has way too much effect on the game in comparison to other games indicating that the ability to alter it is there without damaging the game and peoples interest in it.

[Delpen9]

It is a fact that if someone walks in front of your reticle on the opposite team and your joysticks are not in use then your reticle will not move. This is for the same reason why controller sensitivity doesn't make you move when you are not using your joysticks. Just imagine a 2D image with a controller sensitivity of 10. Now lets say there is an image inside the picture and there is also a reticle in the very center of the picture. The image has a sensitivity of 0.5 so when the reticle in the picture moves over to the image and touches it the controllers sensitivity switches to 0.5 until the reticle leaves the image. The higher the aim assist the lower the sensitivity will be inside the image. There are no other factors involved in aim assist. It is simply a defined area of a specific sensitivity.

 

For fun I will take this to the opposite extreme: What do you think would happen if the "image" were to have a higher sensitivity than its surroundings? Could you call it reverse aim assist?

[ItsMrDeath2You]

for players like me that prefer really high sensitivity and have really good hand eye cordintions any way, aim assist has always been hated. and i would love if others were forced to actually aim by them selfs. also not haveing your ritical move off of your one shot target just because his teammate walks right infront of him, then aim assist track him instead. I don't need help aiming i am a big boy thank you vary much. if the kids need a nipple of the their sippy cup then let them play in a different playlist just for them, instread of putting the sippy cup top on every playlist.

[Cortar]

Aim Assist is needed on console games because it becomes really, really difficult to hit anything without it, unlike with a mouse and keyboard. That being said, the AA in Halo 4 is a little much.

[ioniablackbird]

Maybe lower it, yes, remove it, no way. Have you ever went into a custom game or forge and tried killing teamates? lol you can use a whole clip and not drop a shield

[Delpen9]

Maybe lower it, yes, remove it, no way. Have you ever went into a custom game or forge and tried killing teamates? lol you can use a whole clip and not drop a shield

I clearly wrote,"Why aim assist cannot be removed" as the title and then I explained WHY it would be a BAD idea to remove aim assist or allow you to personalize it. In no shape, way, or form did I say I was against lowering the aim assist. I don't know if this was generally directed to my thread post or not which made your post feel misleading.

Actually, I have purposely gone into customs with my team-mate and killed each other with Br's, carbines, and DMR's. The sad truth was that when we quit killing each other we actually played worse in regular gameplay. This is because when you don't have aim assist you unconsciously neglect the use of your right analog stick(you still use it, just not as much) to lead your shots with the left analog stick. Though, it might have been somewhat good strafing practice, we had a hard time getting back to our agenda with moving the right analog stick to aim.(Temporarily making us worse.) Though I only did this twice I should test it out some more to see if there is an ideal way to practice like that.

 

Aim Assist is needed on console games because it becomes really, really difficult to hit anything without it, unlike with a mouse and keyboard. That being said, the AA in Halo 4 is a little much.

Yes, the mouse is more precision oriented. That is why the computer halo games don't use aim assist. - but you already knew that!

[Twinreaper]

Ok I just have to ask this. Are guys refering to the reticule homing in on close enemies or within a certain distance? if so, that is called "mangetism" and is a core weapon tag function. Whether or not it can be lowered or increased via a script I do not know. I have never seen this done, as the magnetism feature is not a global constraint and globals cannot usually be changed, unless the said global has a chunk or field that is linked to a UI change.

 

The magnetism feature has always been included in the Halo games, and as such usually always is there for future ones. I'm not sure how good or bad removing it would actually be...I'm just trying to clarify what exactly it is, just in case....

[Delpen9]

Ok I just have to ask this. Are guys refering to the reticule homing in on close enemies or within a certain distance? if so, that is called "mangetism" and is a core weapon tag function. Whether or not it can be lowered or increased via a script I do not know. I have never seen this done, as the magnetism feature is not a global constraint and globals cannot usually be changed, unless the said global has a chunk or field that is linked to a UI change.

 

The magnetism feature has always been included in the Halo games, and as such usually always is there for future ones. I'm not sure how good or bad removing it would actually be...I'm just trying to clarify what exactly it is, just in case....

Magnetism actually refers to bullets. Bullets magnetism is a slight refraction of the bullets to hit the enemy target. Technically, this tag function you are talking about has no official name but is normally dubbed aim-assist. Also, what does the acronym UI mean in this context?(Just would like to know, no biggy!)

[Twinreaper]

Actually magnetism is the tag field name, and it relates to the reticule on the HUD. The function you are describing there is actually the "autoaim angle" and "autoaim range". The bullet refraction is called "deviation angle". But most deviations I have seen are either labeled as a 0 "float", or very small. I never really pay attention to that apsect of the weapon finctions though, as I play with keyboard and mouse most of the time on PC. I suck way too much to pay attention..I'm usually just paying attention to the ground I'm eating..lmao

 

Oh yeah, UI is User intrerface. As in a menu selection item.

[Delpen9]

Here is a link to how aim assist works. I developed the controllers sensitivity idea after studying the effect of aim assist. In COD BO2 the auto aim actually pulls the target but in MW2 it functioned similarly to Halo 4's auto aim. It simply slows your controller sensitivity allowing you to "stick" to your target while moving in unison with him. Like I said, the reticle moves slower while inside or close to the perimeter of the enemy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaom3cdZv1c

[Twinreaper]

We are both talking about different things which is what I gathered. I was actually talking about autoaim in the sense that the reticule is pulled towards the player, but the magnetism that tracks the player with a projectile even when the reticule is not on them, and within the specified range or angle. I got confused again...it;s late for me right now. But I agree, that nothing would be either gained or lost by removing it. Players who pla on a 1 sensativity like me, don't tend to gain anything from it at all sicne our targeting is slow as molasses anyway..lmao Great video by the way. It does a good job of explaining it a bit for those not too familiar...

 

 

 

 

 

Oh real quick before I edit this yet again... how bad is it in Halo 4? Like I said, i dont usually take time to notice or keep dying real quick. Is the magnetism severly stronger for 4, and the autoaim higher in range than in the past?

[sravi3661]

becouse your aim is yor very important so you dont removed ...

[Azaxx]

I want it nerfed or removed entirely. Annoying when I try aiming at someone. But someone walks infront and it moves to them. Very frustrating especially when sniping and you miss the shot you lined up.

[Delpen9]

Is the auto aim angle what degree your reticle will be effected by the auto-aim?(Assuming that I understood your comment correctly) Like 3 degrees away from the target in all direction will still cause auto aim to take effect? So therefor, would 0 degrees mean you would actually have to hit the target for your reticle to go red? If the angle is set to 0 degrees then would that mean that bullet magnetism would be uneeded because the bullets would hit the target anyway? - So this describes what perameters are needed for the reticule slowing process or sensitivity increase to occur, accompanied by the bullet magnetism to lead the bullets being shot from the outer regions of the auto-aim angle. All of this agrees with what I have written in the post but i think you did a better job at suming it up into an easily conceivable form.

 

-from delpen9 to twin reaper

 

I want it nerfed or removed entirely. Annoying when I try aiming at someone. But someone walks infront and it moves to them. Very frustrating especially when sniping and you miss the shot you lined up.

All i can say is, this event is rare and doesn't happen very often. Next time if you happen to notice somoene walking in front of your target, let go of your right analog stick before you get caught in their aim assist.

 

I want it nerfed or removed entirely. Annoying when I try aiming at someone. But someone walks infront and it moves to them. Very frustrating especially when sniping and you miss the shot you lined up.

you would have never been able to line up that shot if you didn't have aim assist. -just saying

[Bloody Initiate]

When I refer to "aim assist" I'm talking about the way the reticule moves toward a target independent of your command.

 

When I refer to "magnetism" I'm referring to the tendency of your projectile to actually deviate toward a target from the line it is aimed upon (Your reticule is one foot to the left of your enemy, your bullet actually goes right to compensate).

 

I don't know that "aim assist" was increased in Halo 4, it feels like it. If it was I don't think it was necessary. I am pretty damn sure "magnetism" WAS increased in Halo 4, and I do not think that was a wise change.

 

Those may not be the correct technical terms for the features, but the difference between the programming which moves your reticule and the programming which moves your projectile should be clear. I understand that neither should be removed and in fact both have been present in Halo since the beginning to aid console users, but I do feel like both have been increased in Halo 4 which was unnecessary.

 

The increase in "aim assist" and "magnetism", combined with the already low base movement speed makes it extremely easy to hit targets even when they're moving perpendicular to your line of sight at very long range. It makes everyone feel like a marksman, but more importantly it makes everyone feel like everyone else is a marksman. The result is players who feel like they can't move anywhere without being 5-shotted in 1.6 seconds because anyone can 5-shot you at the highest speed possible at any point on the map. It used to take a lot of practice to kill at long range or extreme range with the starting weapon (BR, and even Reach DMR required you to slow down), now it simply requires you to have that starting weapon (DMR, lightrifle is good but people aren't used to it yet).

 

In addition to that, speaking directly to the OP Delpen9, I don't mean any offense but this is not the first time I've seen you make posts with suspect information. I don't think you're doing it deliberately, but I think you need to devote more energy to researching the things you're going to say. This correlation with controller sensitivity doesn't sound as strong as you make it out to be, I think you made this thread trying to defend something no one was attacking. No one who knows what they're talking about wants the aim assist removed completely from Halo, because everyone who knows what they're talking about also knows that it's been present in Halo games since CE and that hitting anything in a console FPS without it is difficult to the point of not being fun.

[Delpen9]

When I refer to "aim assist" I'm talking about the way the reticule moves toward a target independent of your command.

 

When I refer to "magnetism" I'm referring to the tendency of your projectile to actually deviate toward a target from the line it is aimed upon (Your reticule is one foot to the left of your enemy, your bullet actually goes right to compensate).

 

I don't know that "aim assist" was increased in Halo 4, it feels like it. If it was I don't think it was necessary. I am pretty damn sure "magnetism" WAS increased in Halo 4, and I do not think that was a wise change.

 

Those may not be the correct technical terms for the features, but the difference between the programming which moves your reticule and the programming which moves your projectile should be clear. I understand that neither should be removed and in fact both have been present in Halo since the beginning to aid console users, but I do feel like both have been increased in Halo 4 which was unnecessary.

 

The increase in "aim assist" and "magnetism", combined with the already low base movement speed makes it extremely easy to hit targets even when they're moving perpendicular to your line of sight at very long range. It makes everyone feel like a marksman, but more importantly it makes everyone feel like everyone else is a marksman. The result is players who feel like they can't move anywhere without being 5-shotted in 1.6 seconds because anyone can 5-shot you at the highest speed possible at any point on the map. It used to take a lot of practice to kill at long range or extreme range with the starting weapon (BR, and even Reach DMR required you to slow down), now it simply requires you to have that starting weapon (DMR, lightrifle is good but people aren't used to it yet).

 

In addition to that, speaking directly to the OP Delpen9, I don't mean any offense but this is not the first time I've seen you make posts with suspect information. I don't think you're doing it deliberately, but I think you need to devote more energy to researching the things you're going to say. This correlation with controller sensitivity doesn't sound as strong as you make it out to be, I think you made this thread trying to defend something no one was attacking. No one who knows what they're talking about wants the aim assist removed completely from Halo, because everyone who knows what they're talking about also knows that it's been present in Halo games since CE and that hitting anything in a console FPS without it is difficult to the point of not being fun.

I actually do get my information from a source though the information has a possibility of being wrong. If it would make you feel better i will site my information and then you can check it to see i the source is valid. My post was not originally meant to be defensive but it really has turned that way. People keep using the "walk in front of my target example" as for a valid reason to dissprove the information that i know for a fact is correct. Also, the DMR kills in 1.68 seconds, br 1.8, and light rifle scoped is 1.5 and considering that there may be gaps between shots then it would kill around 1.8-2.5 seconds to get kill but i understand that what you said was just an expression.

- 98% of my posts are just the way i feel about certain subjects and not derived from an outside source. If you can i would like to know which posts seem suspect so i can see how to make it more validatable.

[Twinreaper]

Delpen is accurate in what he described. Though you all may be misunderstanding his information a bit, which is why i tried to dumb it down a bit. Not using that as an insult...just trying to easily make the information understable for everyone.

 

Blood Initiate, the ranges that magnetism and autoaim are effective at, are not that great a distance. In terms of actual ranges, the usual "3" setting for autoaim, is basically just about 3.75 MC's in length if the character was laying down. Masterchief is usually documented as being a little under 1 world unit. The ranges for autoaim and magnetism use world scale ranges instead of radians.

 

If you play on a high sensativity setting, then autoaim is likely to show up as a visible advantage or disadvantage more so than someone like me, who gains or loses nothing by playing on the lowest setting. well, actually thats not accurate. because of my slow setting, I cannot turn as quick, and therefor usually always fail to react quick enough to other players, or pull off assassinations. But what is true, is that without aim assist of any kind, it is highly unlikely according to multiple sources both professional gaming and industry, that any player with high sensativity levels would even do half as good with aiming or tracking an enemy, as they do WITH it. That is the point Delpen is trying to make here in regards to the subject.

[Bloody Initiate]

I don't know if you've cracked Halo 4's code or anything, but I suspect the ranges are greater in this game than in previous games. That may not be the "usual" but for me there is evidence enough for me to believe players are getting more help than previously and at longer ranges.

 

Here's why:

As other people have said, and this is only anecdotal evidence if you haven't experienced it but I have experienced it, but it seems very noticeable at ranges exceeding even 5 Master Chief lengths to have your reticule forcibly dragged off of one opponent when another passes in between them and you (The setting moving your reticule closer to targets is picking up a closer target). This has gotten me killed on multiple occasions, and it tends to be at the range typically referred to as "mid-range" where people like to have fights with marksman rifles.

 

I also have the benefit of being in an organization of players who do research on the game. They've found the aim assist you receive is related to the weapon you're using and has ranges roughly equivalent to the weapon's intended range.

 

As for the "magnetism" of the actual projectiles, I'll just re-post this video that has been posted many times in reference to this aspect of the game. (I would skip to 2:23 to protect sanity, it's a very boring video, but the data is good).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWaDwsGb1c0

 

The projectile magnetism is not the topic being discussed in this thread, but it definitely appears at longer ranges than you suggest are normal.

 

As for aim assist and sensitivity, I was saying the aim assist your receive is not dependent on your sensitivity. I play on 7, I don't believe I would be able to land shots effectively without aim assistance of one kind or another. As I said in my earlier post, I wouldn't argue for its removal, just that the amount of assistance players receive be decreased. As it is now everyone can very easily land shots which makes everyone more dangerous without any increase to survivability.