Fixing the DMR

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

Lots of stuf going on about the DMR being imba. But there is little talk about how to fix it. Here's a thread about how to fix it. I see about 4 reasonable ways to fix the DMR.

 

A. Nerf DMR to have less power

 

B. Nerf DMR to have less fire rate

 

C. Buff BR and Carbine

 

D. Buff BR and Carbine + full auto weapons (excluding SAW)

 

Lets take a look at option A. Option A suggests to nerf the DMRs damage. This may appeal to those who want the weapon to become inferior. However, we don't want weapons to be inferior. This just causes rage threads about how the gun has no place in the game, kind of what has happened to the BR. Now, a six shot DMR doesn't look appealing at all when they could just have a 5-shot light rifle instead. So I would argue against option A.

 

Option B has the more reasonable fire rate nerf. If we nerfed fire rate, we would have to be careful about doing so. We don't want it to still fire faster than the BR, but we want it good enough to compare to the light rifle. The best way about doing this making the kill time 1.9 secs, then giving it no flinching when scoped. This way the DMR ranged fighter still has an advantage over BR and Carbine users. Although, it would be an easy fix for Carbine and BR users to just use rogue. In this surcumstance the DMR user must keep distance and take advantage of his longer aim-assist and his small bloom spread. Vs. the Lightrifle at long distances the DMR must take advantage of his stablility advantage and maneuver alot. But the Light rifle user can still beat the DMR user if he hits all of his shots, but this was the way it already was yes? The nerf seems to make things a lot easier for light rifle rogue players to beat DMR users alot. Then we would have to nerf the Light Rifle. Which really just doesn't seem fair to the gun because of its difficulty of use. Option B is arguable but I would argue against it.

 

Option C is about buffs. Buffing the mid range weapons to surpass the DMR's kill time seems to be a good step. It adds to the fast paceness of the game, which I like. But leaving out the assault weapons would just make them as bad as they were in halo 3. One can argue that the weapons deserve to be worse because they take less skill. I ,however, prefer to make all weapons as least inferior as possible. Option C is arguable, but I would argue against it.

 

I like Option D. It brings the weapons to the level they appear to deserve. Now there are 2 main ways of executing option D.

 

1. Keep the auto fire weapons at very similiar kill times as the mid range weapons.

 

2. Bump the auto fire weapons above the kill time of the mid range weapons.

 

You guys can argue about the last part. I'm indifferent about it.

[Bloody Initiate]

I actually would like the non-player powers of the DMR reduced (Like the tendency of bullets to find their target when your reticule isn't on the target) however without that I want the mid-range and full auto weapons buffed. I want the full auto weapons to have roughly twice the clip size they do now, I want the mid-range ones to get tweaks that make their kill times exceed the DMR's at mid-range, the specifics of which I've detailed in many other threads. I also want the full-auto weapons to get better kill times, but I don't necessarily want EVERYTHING to be that much faster. I think the obsession with "faster" hurt this game a lot, so until we get a new sandbox I just want the full autos to be able to fire longer without reloading/overheating.

 

Also I suggest you try not to be indifferent about any of the weapons (Except those that perform fine already, it's fine if you don't care about those) because to discuss weapon balance with sincerity and credibility you need to see a place for all the weapons in the game. You need to have a sense that each should belong somewhere. The reason I say that is because catering to just one style of play is Halo 4's biggest mistake. You run the risk of repeating that mistake if you don't look at the big picture. You have to think "what will the game look like if I get my way?" and that way if you ever DO get your way you find yourself playing a better game, not one that's just better for one faction of players.

[Mainbrid]

E. BR with slower fire rate, no hitscan and 4sk would balance it out but none of the above will ever be implemented so crying is pointless

 

 

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

E. BR with slower fire rate, no hitscan and 4sk would balance it out but none of the above will ever be implemented so crying is pointless

There is always hope. And I assure you, I didn't cry when I wrote this thread.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

So in otherwords you are unable to select an option that states that a player is fine with the DMR as is and is well informed on the subject? Kind of a bias poll...

[TornadoFlame]

since this game has custom loadouts i would say option b to decrease fire rate. the issue is this gun has no weaknesses and dominates every gun at every level a good dmr user can always beat any gun because of how fast the kill time is for this weapon and with the massive hit box you can't miss lol. Now if it wasn't a weapon in custom loadout it should stay as is. this is why custom loadouts for halo do not work :/

[HappehNinja]

It makes sense that the covenant carbine and the other primary weapons need some adjustments to make them more balanced and to be able to compete better against the DMR and the BR (or just make some adjustments to the DMR and the BR instead). However, I see no reason to buff the BR, as it does well since it's a precision weapon (not as good as the DMR, but still, it has the potential and the benefit of a precision weapon).

[EpicBeaver]

My opinion i have to explain with a post is,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR A GOD DANG OVERREACTING NOOB!

Nuff' said.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

So in otherwords you are unable to select an option that states that a player is fine with the DMR as is and is well informed on the subject? Kind of a bias poll...

So in otherwords you are unable to select an option that states that a player is fine with the DMR as is and is well informed on the subject? Kind of a bias poll...

Ah yes, the reason for this is because there is no humanly way a person can know all there is about the DMR and the BR and think it is balanced without some sort of bias involved. This I assure you. Or someone could be an idiot.

 

My opinion i have to explain with a post is,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR A GOD DANG OVERREACTING NOOB!

Nuff' said.

My opinion i have to explain with a post is,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR A GOD DANG OVERREACTING NOOB!

Nuff' said.

How am I over reacting? Im simply analyzing an imbalance that a lot of people agree with and I'm suggesting a course of action and asking the opinion of others for this course of action. I will probably slap myself if I see one logical post coming out of you.

[Vaulting♥Frog]

Well if that is your position then I wont bother voting on this poll. It is bias and you clearly do not want differing opinions on the subject.

[Twinreaper]

If I may, here is the actual data for DMR, battle Rifle and Carbine. This is actual tag data, not guessed of keyframe data that is completely inaccurate.

 

 

 

So once you scan the information, you can clearly see that each has it's own strength and dominates the other in a certain area. To simplify the information further, I can list the jist of it here...

 

Battle Rifle: Fires the slowest, but fires the most shots per trigger pull, and for the amoun of projectiles it fires, it has resonable error constraints,

Carbine: Though it fires the fastest and deals the most damage, it has the largest error which makes connecting each shot more difficult than the others.

DMR: Medium firing speed, and low error make up for it's lowest damage dealing per shot.

 

Overall, the BR and DMR are about equal, except for it's massive range boost. Flat out, you can out range an opponent. But up close or before mid-range, the Carbine will eat you alive.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

LOL I can't understand anything in that table can you translate for me plz? Why doesn't the table include damage per round or damage per trigger pull?

 

Well if that is your position then I wont bother voting on this poll. It is bias and you clearly do not want differing opinions on the subject.

Well if that is your position then I wont bother voting on this poll. It is bias and you clearly do not want differing opinions on the subject.

The stats show itself. The only advantage the BR has over the DMR is the fact that it can kill with a shot to the head at 1/8th shielding. Thats it. All the rest the DMR is better. I'm not biased, you and all who know the exact stats are biased. Seriously, this game is not called Halo 4, return of the DMR. No, its halo 4 return of all the guns people liked. Woe is the Carbine user who suffers from under powered weaponry.

Woe to the BR user who suffers to the use of a worse DMR. Woe to the assault rifle user, who's CQB weapon can't touch the DMR at any range. But peace and happiness radiates from the DMR user, who trumps all with his might. He has no worry about a gun being better in its surcumstance. Why would the DMR user want his weapon of triumph to go? To allow fans of other weapons a fair chance? Hah! Most go on there merry way and slap their bias on the thread. Defending their undeniable advantage. To leave the rest scrambling for an advantage, only to be dissapointed when they find none. For all to hail the DMR! King of Primarys. Never will it be dethroned. Defend the DMR! For with our king, we will rule matchmaking! Never shall it be nerfed. Never shall there be buffs. Never shall there be balance. For all must bow to the DMR user.

 

All until the day. The day few stood up against the outrage. Dared to make threads against the DMR. Waged war against its supporters. That day. Started the road to a balanced kingdom. But the war is still raging. The king isn't easily dethroned. But it may happen. It will happen. When the creators of the kingdom came back to dethrone their poorly chosen king. To then make kings of all of the primarys. This is what I and many others strive for, a balanced kingdom of matchmaking. But for a kingdom to change for the better. We must discuss how the kingdom will be changed.

 

But for since the first DMR thread. It has bean a verbal war on the DMR's supporters. For almost all want to keep their distinct advantage. We want the Halo 4 we were promissed. You want the Halo 4 your playstyle fits the most. For I still believe that any supporter of the DMR who has full knowledge off statistics, I deem biased. I can't be convinced other wise until changes are made for the better. Why give 3 options when I know I only need 2? DMR supporters. Remember who this game was built for. It wasn't you, it wasn't me. It was for halo fans of all playstyles. The BR guys, the Carbine guys, and yes, the DMR guys. Don't forget the storm rifle guys, the suppressor guys, and the assault rifle spammers. Even for the boltshot spammers, and the hollogramers. But no. The game's current state is only for the DMR guys.

Sorry if I insulted you. Its only the truth.

[Twinreaper]

LOL, sorry man. I thought I explained it in the yellow highlighted section of the image. basically your "damage lower and upper bounds" is the amount of global damage each round deals...as in each trigger pull. The only weapon that functions a bit odd from this, is the BR. Since you need to land all 3 bursts of a trigger pull to accumulate the actual max damage of a shot.

 

I will say this though.... I ams till trying to go through all the possible tags that can effect or modify how eapons function. I have found mroe than one unknown in the tags that point to another tag. I have a lot of work to still do before I can say which other tags in the game can modify or adjust damage, range etc... This is a stock prelim.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

If I may, here is the actual data for DMR, battle Rifle and Carbine. This is actual tag data, not guessed of keyframe data that is completely inaccurate.

 

 

 

So once you scan the information, you can clearly see that each has it's own strength and dominates the other in a certain area. To simplify the information further, I can list the jist of it here...

 

Battle Rifle: Fires the slowest, but fires the most shots per trigger pull, and for the amoun of projectiles it fires, it has resonable error constraints,

Carbine: Though it fires the fastest and deals the most damage, it has the largest error which makes connecting each shot more difficult than the others.

DMR: Medium firing speed, and low error make up for it's lowest damage dealing per shot.

 

Overall, the BR and DMR are about equal, except for it's massive range boost. Flat out, you can out range an opponent. But up close or before mid-range, the Carbine will eat you alive.

If I may, here is the actual data for DMR, battle Rifle and Carbine. This is actual tag data, not guessed of keyframe data that is completely inaccurate.

 

 

 

So once you scan the information, you can clearly see that each has it's own strength and dominates the other in a certain area. To simplify the information further, I can list the jist of it here...

 

Battle Rifle: Fires the slowest, but fires the most shots per trigger pull, and for the amoun of projectiles it fires, it has resonable error constraints,

Carbine: Though it fires the fastest and deals the most damage, it has the largest error which makes connecting each shot more difficult than the others.

DMR: Medium firing speed, and low error make up for it's lowest damage dealing per shot.

 

Overall, the BR and DMR are about equal, except for it's massive range boost. Flat out, you can out range an opponent. But up close or before mid-range, the Carbine will eat you alive.

You do know that the DMR kills faster than the BR. So how can they be about =. Even if they did have the same kill time. The DMR is meant for long ranges, and the BR is meant for mid range. How is this fair? Oh yah and thanks for explaining the chart for me. I'm not quite the technology guru you are.

[Twinreaper]

I wasn't trying to illustrate a point. I was mearly just posting up the actual game data for you guys. While i do love the DMR in halo 4, I will always be a BR lover first. Nothing biased or anything from me. Just wanted to give you guys factual info so you can agrue with a more accurate look at the weapons themselves.

 

But now that you mention it, the BR kills faster as long as every trigger pull is dead on accurate. The DMR makes 3 shots per second, while the BR does 15 (5 x 3-shot bursts) and each full burst of 3 does 1 point more damage. The problem is, it's almost impossible to get all three bursts to land in the same spot. That is why the DMR does the actual "kill" faster. less error to throw the shots.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

I wasn't trying to illustrate a point. I was mearly just posting up the actual game data for you guys. While i do love the DMR in halo 4, I will always be a BR lover first. Nothing biased or anything from me. Just wanted to give you guys factual info so you can agrue with a more accurate look at the weapons themselves.

 

But now that you mention it, the BR kills faster as long as every trigger pull is dead on accurate. The DMR makes 3 shots per second, while the BR does 15 (5 x 3-shot bursts) and each full burst of 3 does 1 point more damage. The problem is, it's almost impossible to get all three bursts to land in the same spot. That is why the DMR does the actual "kill" faster. less error to throw the shots.

I wasn't trying to illustrate a point. I was mearly just posting up the actual game data for you guys. While i do love the DMR in halo 4, I will always be a BR lover first. Nothing biased or anything from me. Just wanted to give you guys factual info so you can agrue with a more accurate look at the weapons themselves.

 

But now that you mention it, the BR kills faster as long as every trigger pull is dead on accurate. The DMR makes 3 shots per second, while the BR does 15 (5 x 3-shot bursts) and each full burst of 3 does 1 point more damage. The problem is, it's almost impossible to get all three bursts to land in the same spot. That is why the DMR does the actual "kill" faster. less error to throw the shots.

But I tested it point blank on someones head and I got a 5-shot kill. The DMR has a faster fire rate so the faster five trigger pulls wins. Right?

[Twinreaper]

Like I said, I only provide the data. How and why a BR that fires faster and deals more damage according to the tag, is out gunned by the DMR with lesser stats is beyond me. Like is aid...I got thedata...not the reasoning..lmao But yeah, it's gonna be lot harder to land all your projectiles directly on the head during a heated battle with BR than a DMR. The error is lower and you have only one projectile to worry about.

 

All that aside, I did just realize something. When they update the game, they use scripting to change certain float values in tags in memory. it is quite possible that they have changed certain things under the radar. Things that I would have to poke in memory on a jtag to uncover, rather than the stock files.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

Like I said, I only provide the data. How and why a BR that fires faster and deals more damage according to the tag, is out gunned by the DMR with lesser stats is beyond me. Like is aid...I got thedata...not the reasoning..lmao But yeah, it's gonna be lot harder to land all your projectiles directly on the head during a heated battle with BR than a DMR. The error is lower and you have only one projectile to worry about.

Like I said, I only provide the data. How and why a BR that fires faster and deals more damage according to the tag, is out gunned by the DMR with lesser stats is beyond me. Like is aid...I got thedata...not the reasoning..lmao But yeah, it's gonna be lot harder to land all your projectiles directly on the head during a heated battle with BR than a DMR. The error is lower and you have only one projectile to worry about.

But doesn't it look like the DMR fires faster in game?

[ProudDrunkIrish]

I think at this stage it is undenaiable that the DMR is better than the other 2 guns but having really thought about this the only logical fix without upsetting the rest of balancing between weapons is the reduction in fir rate, it would maintain long range supremacy but make it weaker in CQC, also it would be the easiest fix for 343 to implement should they decide to do so.

[Twinreaper]

It does appear to fire faster in-game than the BR and I do not know why. I think the first Title Update they did probably messed with few things perhaps? Either that, or they changed something somewhere else and I haven't found it yet.

[Bloody Initiate]

I'm sorry I looked at that table and saw a bunch of information I already knew and had previously dismissed, some information that I think is actually wrong, and some that doesn't matter or seem existent in-game.

 

Let's focus on the red:

 

Starting with the BR, which we know is the runt of the litter, I see it has four red boxes, but one of them it actually shares with the DMR (Error angle) and the other three it gets from its firing mode which we also know isn't that special. The burst fire is the virtual equivalent of NOT putting all your eggs in one basket. If you simply fired a bigger projectile then it would be an advantage because it would be harder to dodge and harder to miss, but instead you fire three which means you can hit with one and miss with the other two. You'll see you've hit your target but for all you know you're 1-2 bullets behind.

 

So the BR has NO advantages except that it's better at cleaning up one-shots, which is why people use it more in SWAT.

 

I already knew all that.

 

Next lets look at the carbine. We see, as we knew, that its primary edge is its fire rate. We sadly also see that it's based on the player, not the gun (As in if the player has a good trigger finger, the carbine is awesome, if they don't, it isn't). So again that gun loses its edge because all of its advantages are dependent on a high-performing player. Remember we're talking about the guns in this thread, not the players using them.

 

There is a part of the table I don't understand and that's the damage upper bounds maximum and minimum. It shows the carbine is somehow better than the other two, which we know isn't true. You explain it in yellow as the damage the projectile does, but we KNOW that it doesn't do better damage than the other two (Actually it DOES do better damage than the BR's projectiles, but the BR fires 3). So I am failing to understand something relevant about that statistic. We know the carbine takes 7 shots to drop shields while the other two guns take 4, something is missing from that section.

 

Finally the DMR. We see it chuckling when the BR boasts its one red box of error angle, because the DMR has the same error angle. Next we see it has superior range, we also knew that.

 

Next I'm confused again, because it has a velocity listed, but we know the weapons are hitscan. It has two big red boxes of "i'm better than you" velocity, but we KNOW that velocity isn't a factor in these weapons. So again I'm missing something.

 

The DMR's final red box is the error angle maximum, which I suspect is accuracy degeneration/bloom? We see that the DMR is apparently superior even though it doesn't have the lowest number, I'm guessing that's due to the combination with fire rate that makes accuracy degeneration more or less prevalent (A weapon that fires fast will be adding its error angle maximum more times per second... if I'm reading that right).

 

What I end up seeing here are:

 

Numbers that don't matter being listed as favorable, like the BR's burst.

 

Numbers that appear to be wrong, like the BR's shots per second and the carbine's damage.

 

Numbers that don't exist, like the velocity.

 

The result is that what little information I can gather from that apparently-flawed table is that the carbine and the BR have irrelevant or non-existent advantages and I'm forced to again recall my experience and the wealth of videos and experiments posted by other people in various places that show the DMR is simply superior.

 

@Twinreaper: I like your focus on data, and I respect that you're a poster who tries to use facts and such as your guide. However I see a table like that and either I misunderstand the stat (I read your explanations) or I ask myself "Has he even played the game?" I know you've played, and if I remember right you don't intend to play it much more, but one look at something like the carbine's projectile damage would have clued an experienced player in to the fact that something was wrong (Or maybe the player just doesn't understand the stat, like I don't). I don't think that table is accurate/current, or if it is then I don't think the numbers you collected are an accurate representation of what the weapons do in-game.

 

Even if it IS accurate, I don't think the numbers have been judged correctly, because these three weapons are NOT equivalent in any sense, and I know that. It is exactly as people have been saying it is: The DMR is better than the other two and the carbine loses to the BR because it's the hardest to use. The carbine when used perfectly defeats the BR. We know all that. What I now struggle to understand is what level of removal from the game had to be present for you to look at that table and not see its flaws or its lack of bearing on the game.

 

@King of Coffe: Did you notice you quote everyone twice?

[Jack Of Harts]

I think BR's accuracy needs a slight buff, and DMR's fire rate needs a slight nerf.

 

Two guns that I think REALLY need nerfing: The boltshot and the Light Rifle.

[Kiing 0f Coffe]

I'm sorry I looked at that table and saw a bunch of information I already knew and had previously dismissed, some information that I think is actually wrong, and some that doesn't matter or seem existent in-game.

 

Let's focus on the red:

 

Starting with the BR, which we know is the runt of the litter, I see it has four red boxes, but one of them it actually shares with the DMR (Error angle) and the other three it gets from its firing mode which we also know isn't that special. The burst fire is the virtual equivalent of NOT putting all your eggs in one basket. If you simply fired a bigger projectile then it would be an advantage because it would be harder to dodge and harder to miss, but instead you fire three which means you can hit with one and miss with the other two. You'll see you've hit your target but for all you know you're 1-2 bullets behind.

 

So the BR has NO advantages except that it's better at cleaning up one-shots, which is why people use it more in SWAT.

 

I already knew all that.

 

Next lets look at the carbine. We see, as we knew, that its primary edge is its fire rate. We sadly also see that it's based on the player, not the gun (As in if the player has a good trigger finger, the carbine is awesome, if they don't, it isn't). So again that gun loses its edge because all of its advantages are dependent on a high-performing player. Remember we're talking about the guns in this thread, not the players using them.

 

There is a part of the table I don't understand and that's the damage upper bounds maximum and minimum. It shows the carbine is somehow better than the other two, which we know isn't true. You explain it in yellow as the damage the projectile does, but we KNOW that it doesn't do better damage than the other two (Actually it DOES do better damage than the BR's projectiles, but the BR fires 3). So I am failing to understand something relevant about that statistic. We know the carbine takes 7 shots to drop shields while the other two guns take 4, something is missing from that section.

 

Finally the DMR. We see it chuckling when the BR boasts its one red box of error angle, because the DMR has the same error angle. Next we see it has superior range, we also knew that.

 

Next I'm confused again, because it has a velocity listed, but we know the weapons are hitscan. It has two big red boxes of "i'm better than you" velocity, but we KNOW that velocity isn't a factor in these weapons. So again I'm missing something.

 

The DMR's final red box is the error angle maximum, which I suspect is accuracy degeneration/bloom? We see that the DMR is apparently superior even though it doesn't have the lowest number, I'm guessing that's due to the combination with fire rate that makes accuracy degeneration more or less prevalent (A weapon that fires fast will be adding its error angle maximum more times per second... if I'm reading that right).

 

What I end up seeing here are:

 

Numbers that don't matter being listed as favorable, like the BR's burst.

 

Numbers that appear to be wrong, like the BR's shots per second and the carbine's damage.

 

Numbers that don't exist, like the velocity.

 

The result is that what little information I can gather from that apparently-flawed table is that the carbine and the BR have irrelevant or non-existent advantages and I'm forced to again recall my experience and the wealth of videos and experiments posted by other people in various places that show the DMR is simply superior.

 

@Twinreaper: I like your focus on data, and I respect that you're a poster who tries to use facts and such as your guide. However I see a table like that and either I misunderstand the stat (I read your explanations) or I ask myself "Has he even played the game?" I know you've played, and if I remember right you don't intend to play it much more, but one look at something like the carbine's projectile damage would have clued an experienced player in to the fact that something was wrong (Or maybe the player just doesn't understand the stat, like I don't). I don't think that table is accurate/current, or if it is then I don't think the numbers you collected are an accurate representation of what the weapons do in-game.

 

Even if it IS accurate, I don't think the numbers have been judged correctly, because these three weapons are NOT equivalent in any sense, and I know that. It is exactly as people have been saying it is: The DMR is better than the other two and the carbine loses to the BR because it's the hardest to use. The carbine when used perfectly defeats the BR. We know all that. What I now struggle to understand is what level of removal from the game had to be present for you to look at that table and not see its flaws or its lack of bearing on the game.

 

@King of Coffe: Did you notice you quote everyone twice?

Yes I did and I can't make it stop

[Twinreaper]

Like I already said, this is ACTUAL map data retrieved from map files, not just guess work. Youc an say it's not acurate all you want, but according to the tag data it is. Also, I cannot explain why weapons function differently than what they have listed in the tags. I already said that i suspect they are using scripts to adjust them, or there are dependency tags I have not uncovered yet.

 

Hitscan is an illusion. There is a "bitmask" field that checks off "Instantanious",but the tag still relies on a velocity to be specified. W know it is like hitscan already, but not really, all at the same time.

 

All I am doing is providing you guys with information that I have found in the map files. You don't like what I post or want to argue about it? Then **** you all. Argue over guessed numbers and the rest of the random bull**** you all pull out of your proverbial asses. Frankly, I'm a little sick and tired of slaving away at uncovering tag data to share, and all I get is bull**** for it. This is one the top reasons I cannot stand anyone or this place in general anymore. Good luck to you all with your ****ty game...

[Bloody Initiate]

All I am doing is providing you guys with information that I have found in the map files.

 

No you're not, you're providing LIMITED data:

Also, I cannot explain why weapons function differently than what they have listed in the tags. I already said that i suspect they are using scripts to adjust them, or there are dependency tags I have not uncovered yet.

 

And THEN you're hanging your faulty conclusions on it:

 

So once you scan the information, you can clearly see that each has it's own strength and dominates the other in a certain area. To simplify the information further, I can list the jist of it here...

 

...Overall, the BR and DMR are about equal, except for it's massive range boost. Flat out, you can out range an opponent. But up close or before mid-range, the Carbine will eat you alive.

 

I appreciate the work you've done, even if I don't understand exactly how difficult it is. But please don't pretend you're just some under-appreciated objective researcher when as often as you post data you spackle your posts with hostility and condescension.

 

I don't expect you to have all the answers, but if you want to just play objective researcher then you need to stop making conclusions before you have all the information.

 

I don't make $#!7 up. I don't pull ideas from my @$$. I don't have the same information you do, but I get my information one way or another, frequently from people like you who are willing and able to do the research. Thank you for that.

 

Just as myself and other players don't have all the numbers you do, YOU don't have what we have either, which you made plain as day when you post a table that doesn't prove anything and then talked like it did. You've spent all your posts since that post excusing discrepancies. So forgive me if I'm not completely in love with you and ready to have your children, you posted inconclusive, inconsistent data and then got mad when we picked it apart. If you want to just keep jumping to conclusions about your own research then feel free, but don't be surprised when we treat it like you would expect us to treat anything else someone posts. We're skeptical when things conflict with our own conclusions, as we should be, as you should be.

 

I appreciate the work you do uncovering this data, but you could have saved yourself a lot of headache by simply posting it and doing what we did, which is read it objectively and form appropriate conclusions. Stuff like the carbine's damage are clearly wrong, which you should have noticed when you acquired the information. Instead you chose to ignore it and post conclusions that prove inaccurate in the game. You knew you didn't have all the information, and I don't expect you to find it all, but you should have made that disclaimer in your first post. Instead you formed faulty conclusions, excused them, and then got mad when you couldn't defend them.