Changes I Would Like to See 343 Implement

[Matthew Grossberg]

Ok first things first, I am a first time poster on this forum, so please let me know if I am doing anything incorrectly.

 

So tonight I went onto Halo 4 to test out the new maps and Infinity rumble playlist, and I noticed that there were only about 40,000 people online at 9:30 EST. This disappoints me, as it seems like every day more and more people are leaving the game, and the community itself. I got to thinking, what is it about Halo 4 that is making these people not want to play, and what could be changed to help to bring them back. My answer to the first question is that the game has branched too far out from what originally made Halo a great FPS, and my answer to the second is as follows:

 

What Needs to Change:

1. A 1-50 TruSkill Ranking system must be implemented

2. Ranked Playlists must be added with the 1-50 ranking system. The playlists I would like to see are:

     1. Lone Wolves (6 Player FFA) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Oddball, and King of the Hill

     2. Team Slayer (4v4) Gametypes include Slayer and Infinity Slayer

     3. Team Objective (4v4) Gametypes include Capture the Flag, Oddball, Extraction, and King of the Hill

     4. Team Swat (4v4) 

     5. Team Snipers (4v4) 

     6. Team Doubles (2v2) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Oddball, and King of the Hill

     7. AGL (4v4) Gametypes include AGL Settings Slayer, Capture the Flag, Extraction, Oddball, and King of the Hill

     8. Squad Battle (6v6) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Dominion, Extraction, Capture the Flag

3. Social Playlists need to be distinctly separate from Ranked, with random matchmaking instead of skill based. Social Playlists I would like to see are:

     1. Rumble Pit (8 Player FFA) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Oddball, King of the Hill

     2. Social Slayer (5v5) Gametypes include Slayer and Infinity Slayer

     3. Social Skirmish (5v5) Gametypes include Capture the Flag, Oddball, Extraction, and King of the Hill

     4. Multi-Team (6 Teams of 2) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Oddball, and King of the Hill

     5. Big Team Battle (8v8) Gametypes include Slayer, Infinity Slayer, Dominion, Extraction, Capture the Flag

     6. Action Sack (4v4)

     7. Grifball (4v4)

     8. Flood (6v6)

4. In order for the above playlists to work, Dominion, Regicide, and Infinity Slayer must all become gametypes (as opposed to the playlists they are now) to be voted on with all other gametypes available in each playlist. Only Infinity Slayer would have personal ordnance and instant spawn, all other gametypes would have their normal settings. Join in progress would be enabled for Social, disabled for Ranked. Killcams would be dependent on the playlist settings. Loadouts would be allowed based on the particular playlist settings.

5. No more random weapon spawns. Weapons should spawn how they have in every other Halo, in a particular place on a timer. Making weapon spawns random removed one of the two biggest facets of Halo gameplay, power weapon control. Besides skill itself, weapon control and map control were two of the most important aspects of all Halo games, and I believe it imbalances the game to have random weapon spawns.

6. Remove bloom and recoil. I feel like bloom was a failed experiment in Halo Reach, and it should not have been brought over to Halo 4. There may need to be some changes made to the fire rate of the DMR, Magnum, AR, etc. The BR has recoil, but it is small and almost unnoticeable anyways, so might as well just remove it. No bloom worked fine in MLG, and the previous Halos, with some tweaking it should work fine here as well. 

7.Remove flinch, bring back being knocked out of scope. I don't know why they changed this in the first place, but I feel like getting rid of flinch and adding back in being knocked out of scope when shot is the way to go. The game would feel more like Halo I believe. 

8. Remove Invisibility as an Armor Ability, make it a powerup like Damage Boost, Speed Boost, and Overshield. Have these placed around the map like in previous Halo titles, able to be picked up by a player. 

 

That is pretty much it, everything I think could be changed to help make the game feel more like Halo, less like a mishmash of other stuff. Let me know what you think about it!

Mercules

 

[TornadoFlame]

343 is not as smart as you sadly

[TRF BaDInTentZs]

GP butttt, I'd say just double up the playlists on social and ranked. No reason for lists to be available in one and not in the other.

[Matthew Grossberg]

Here is a link to a commentary I did on this subject for my YouTube channel if anyone wants to check it out. 

 

[fzdw11]

What you've brought up has been brought up countless times before, from countless different pepople.  While I'm not "competitive" by all standards, I understand the need for a competitive playlist that is more true to the classic style of Halo.  I appreciate that you've made this post with a reasonable request, rather than a giant rant like has been common recently, and for that I'm grateful.

 

With all of that being said, while I agree with your points, and if you go back to some of my posts prior to Halo 4's release, I've advocated the same exact playlist layout, I don't believe 343 will accomodate it.  There is going to be a competitive skil rank coming out shortly, but unfortunately it will only be visible on Waypoint as far as I know (if they've changed this, please somebody inform me).  Perhaps with time, and if people come back and make enough reasonable requests, they will find a way to implement this into the actual game itself as well (at least, that is my hope), but again, only time will tell.

 

As far as bloom and recoil go, I barely even notice it anymore, it is much better than what was originally implemented in Reach, so I see no real need to remove it, but that is just my personal opinion.  Invisibility, in the ranked playlists, I can agree with completely.  Leave it as is for the social side, though.

[Matthew Grossberg]

343 is not as smart as you sadly

 

Haha this is a shame. 

 

GP butttt, I'd say just double up the playlists on social and ranked. No reason for lists to be available in one and not in the other.

 

I pretty much just modeled it after Halo 3s playlists, obviously there could be some tweaks I felt it was just a good outline or place to start!

 

What you've brought up has been brought up countless times before, from countless different pepople.  While I'm not "competitive" by all standards, I understand the need for a competitive playlist that is more true to the classic style of Halo.  I appreciate that you've made this post with a reasonable request, rather than a giant rant like has been common recently, and for that I'm grateful.

 

With all of that being said, while I agree with your points, and if you go back to some of my posts prior to Halo 4's release, I've advocated the same exact playlist layout, I don't believe 343 will accomodate it.  There is going to be a competitive skil rank coming out shortly, but unfortunately it will only be visible on Waypoint as far as I know (if they've changed this, please somebody inform me).  Perhaps with time, and if people come back and make enough reasonable requests, they will find a way to implement this into the actual game itself as well (at least, that is my hope), but again, only time will tell.

 

As far as bloom and recoil go, I barely even notice it anymore, it is much better than what was originally implemented in Reach, so I see no real need to remove it, but that is just my personal opinion.  Invisibility, in the ranked playlists, I can agree with completely.  Leave it as is for the social side, though.

 

Like I said I am a first time poster so I haven't really been around this forum for long, but it is good to hear that other people are having similar issues and have brought it up before. What is not good is that 343 has done very little about it. I am not sure how to feel about the Waypoint ranking system, but to me it seems like too little too late almost. By april there could be only 20,000 people playing Halo. In terms of bloom, I feel as if it is so minor in this game, why even have it at all? It is just one more thing that randomly effects small portions of the game, it would be simpler just to remove it completely. As for Invis, I personally think it is too easily abused and should just be removed and made into a powerup, but thats just an opinion, and not a major flaw in the game.

[Jack Of Harts]

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't think Infinity Slayer should be the only gametype with instant spawn and ordnance drops. I think each gametype should have an Infinity variant and a Classic variant.

Also, bloom I feel was implemented so much better in Halo 4. What I'm mostly reading your post as, is that it should be just like Halo 3. While I agree Halo 3 was an excellent game, I wouldn't want 343i to do the same thing as Infinity Ward and Treyarch; Just make the same game over and over. No game is perfect, and I love Halo 4 for what it is.

[Matthew Grossberg]

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't think Infinity Slayer should be the only gametype with instant spawn and ordnance drops. I think each gametype should have an Infinity variant and a Classic variant.

 

Also, bloom I feel was implemented so much better in Halo 4. What I'm mostly reading your post as, is that it should be just like Halo 3. While I agree Halo 3 was an excellent game, I wouldn't want 343i to do the same thing as Infinity Ward and Treyarch; Just make the same game over and over. No game is perfect, and I love Halo 4 for what it is.

 

If every playlist had an Infinty variant I would be fine with that, I just don't like being forced to play with imbalanced personal ordnance drops all the time. Along with random weapon spawn, I feel like that has done the most to destroy the feeling of playing a Halo game. Bloom may have been implemented better, but I still dont really see why it was necessary at all. I don't think the game would be just like Halo 3 in any way except ranking system, no bloom, and playlists. It would still have loadouts, armor abilities, and all the new weapons and gametypes. It's funny that you mention Treyarch and Infinity Ward and say you dont want 343 to be like them, when several of the newest additions to Halo 4's mulitplayer seem like cheap knockoffs of things from CoD. Perks, ordnance, everyone with sprint, loadouts, flinch, instant spawn. Not saying all those things are bad, or even that they are complete copies, but you can't deny they were taken from CoD specifically to bring new people into Halo. And it hasn't worked. Not only did no new people come, but old people left. You might like Halo 4 for what it is, but the game is dying whether anyone wants to admit it or not. 

[Matthew Grossberg]

It's a shame that not many people have seen this, I would love to get some more feedback on my ideas.

[FleshBack]

I have read this and they are all great ideas, but that is all they are at the end of the day. I tend not to respond to these kinds of threads because 343 has obviously decided to go "rogue" with their vision of Halo and there is not much the average fan can do about it.

[Matthew Grossberg]

I have read this and they are all great ideas, but that is all they are at the end of the day. I tend not to respond to these kinds of threads because 343 has obviously decided to go "rogue" with their vision of Halo and there is not much the average fan can do about it.

So you don't believe that with how small the Halo community has gotten recently, 343 might realize they have screwed something up? I feel like now is the time they cannot afford to ignore us, if they want Halo 5 to sell at all. I know they are only ideas, but if enough people got together and pushed some of them on 343 maybe they would see what people want and need from Halo 4, and they would make the changes. Just an idea though

[FleshBack]

I think they know they messed up, but I also think some big wig up their thinks they have all the answers and is trying to fix it their way.

 

You can sway people with your ideas in the community, but good luck with getting them implemented. And I don't mean that to be condescending, as I said that you have great ideas.

 

I think if 343 seen their population numbers drop anymore than they already have, then it might be a bit of a wake up call. People playing this game is giving them the false sense that the community is content with their product. That shouldn't be the message we send at all. It should be, "Hey 343, I want better. Stop sitting on your thumbs and patting yourselves on the back cuz you made 3 maps and nerf'd the BoltShot".

 

You get where I am coming from?

[Matthew Grossberg]

I think they know they messed up, but I also think some big wig up their thinks they have all the answers and is trying to fix it their way.

 

You can sway people with your ideas in the community, but good luck with getting them implemented. And I don't mean that to be condescending, as I said that you have great ideas.

 

I think if 343 seen their population numbers drop anymore than they already have, then it might be a bit of a wake up call. People playing this game is giving them the false sense that the community is content with their product. That shouldn't be the message we send at all. It should be, "Hey 343, I want better. Stop sitting on your thumbs and patting yourselves on the back cuz you made 3 maps and nerf'd the BoltShot".

 

You get where I am coming from?

 

Yeah I get that. It makes sense really. Until the game is almost completely devoid of players they will just keep thinking they can solve things their way like you said. Ironic, because trying to do things their way is what really screwed Halo 4 up in the first place. Ah well, hopefully if enough people are swayed by these ideas, when 343 comes crawling back to the community after losing almost everything, we can tell them exactly what we want, and they will make it. Thanks for the feedback though, I appreciate your insight! 

[Bloody Initiate]

There is definitely a sense that 343 is simply doubling down on all of their bad decisions. Rather than ever consider the idea that someone made a mistake they figure they gain credibility by never reversing any of their bad moves. It's BS, and probably came from some corporate punk's powerpoint presentation, but they aren't being smart about it at all.

 

I've had a few guesses about what made them behave so idiotically, lately I think that they got pressured to have a "Plan" from the start (Corporate people love plans) and they've been discouraged from straying from that plan at all. That's why their updates take forever, that's why they're never good enough, that's why things like a ranking system (Which I really don't even care about) get held back to 6 months into the game. It's stupid, it's baffling, and it's 343's M.O.

 

The real issue I see is that even without their impossibly bad management and planning, there is still a healthy dose of utter incompetence beneath it all. I don't think 343 would have made a very good game even if they were allowed much more autonomy, because either a.) they just aren't very smart, I like to use the example of 1 Gauss on Exile or b.) there isn't some corporate snot forcing them to do stupid things, they're just doing stupid things because they ARE the corporate snots. Everything I read in their bulletins feels like they've never played their own game, they don't intend to, they never did, and they're just playing the part and collecting paychecks. They don't sound like game designers, they sound like middle management. I remember one bulleten that talked about the joys of camping - even though Halo 4 is the most anti-camper game I've ever seen. It's like they read some video game lingo on a game wiki and fashioned a fan fiction out of it to pretend they're actually "our people."

 

I simply don't get the sense that there is any potential in 343 to make the best moves without someone forcing them to. I think if Halo 5 is good it will only be because Halo 4 was so bad that someone higher up said "stop that!" to 343. They will not change because they know better, they'll change because their market shares force them to, without them ever figuring out "Why?"

 

They aren't game designers, they're people contracted to make a game in a certain license franchise in order to keep installments coming out and keep the franchise profitable. They can design a game that you tell them to make and if you give them the guidelines, but if it were up to them they'd just go play golf or something because it's a lovely day outside and why would you want to make/play a game anyway? "Sure I got the degree to do it, but if I'd known better I would have majored in something else."

Edited March 3, 2013 by Bloody Initiate

[Matthew Grossberg]

There is definitely a sense that 343 is simply doubling down on all of their bad decisions. Rather than ever consider the idea that someone made a mistake they figure they gain credibility by never reversing any of their bad moves. It's BS, and probably came from some corporate punk's powerpoint presentation, but they aren't being smart about it at all.

 

I've had a few guesses about what made them behave so idiotically, lately I think that they got pressured to have a "Plan" from the start (Corporate people love plans) and they've been discouraged from straying from that plan at all. That's why their updates take forever, that's why they're never good enough, that's why things like a ranking system (Which I really don't even care about) get held back to 6 months into the game. It's stupid, it's baffling, and it's 343's M.O.

 

The real issue I see is that even without their impossibly bad management and planning, there is still a healthy dose of utter incompetence beneath it all. I don't think 343 would have made a very good game even if they were allowed much more autonomy, because either a.) they just aren't very smart, I like to use the example of 1 Gauss on Exile or b.) there isn't some corporate snot forcing them to do stupid things, they're just doing stupid things because they ARE the corporate snots. Everything I read in their bulletins feels like they've never played their own game, they don't intend to, they never did, and they're just playing the part and collecting paychecks. They don't sound like game designers, they sound like middle management. I remember one bulleten that talked about the joys of camping - even though Halo 4 is the most anti-camper game I've ever seen. It's like they read some video game lingo on a game wiki and fashioned a fan fiction out of it to pretend they're actually "our people."

 

I simply don't get the sense that there is any potential in 343 to make the best moves without someone forcing them to. I think if Halo 5 is good it will only be because Halo 4 was so bad that someone higher up said "stop that!" to 343. They will not change because they know better, they'll change because their market shares force them to, without them ever figuring out "Why?"

 

They aren't game designers, they're people contracted to make a game in a certain license franchise in order to keep installments coming out and keep the franchise profitable. They can design a game that you tell them to make and if you give them the guidelines, but if it were up to them they'd just go play golf or something because it's a lovely day outside and why would you want to make/play a game anyway? "Sure I got the degree to do it, but if I'd known better I would have majored in something else."

 

To be honest I really get the sense that from the start 343 has been controlled by Microsoft telling them they needed to make the game more like CoD. I feel like they were never given a chance to make a good Halo game to begin with, as their corporate overlords dictated what type of shooter they should make. I think this is the reason that Bungie left Microsoft to begin with, and 343 just had the bad luck to be created by Microsoft. I am not so sure that they couldn't make a good game if they were given the ability to freely do what they wanted without being forced into certain areas, but it really does seem like they don't want to admit they made any major mistakes and they just keep sticking with stuff that is not working even though the game is dying because of it. Truly a shame when you think of what Halo once was... I really would like to see what they could come out if they were just given complete free will to create something true to Halo. Who knows, they might surprise you.