A Disturbingly True Fact

[Victory Element]

I recently remembered a little piece of halo knowledge that i picked up a while back. I'm pretty sure i saw it on the halo waypoint application on my xbox, but i cant be so sure about this. Anyways, i just wanted to discuss the utopian society that is in the halo universe. You might be thinking "what the heck are you talking about?" , but please allow me to explain.

 

First of all, utopia can be generally defined as a perfect society. That probably seems to be the last thing that is present in the halo universe, but it is there indeed.  the society that i am refering to is literally perfect one its own, with no internal conflict whatsoever. It is a violent culture though, and it uses its perfection as one of its greatest advantages over some of the other life in the galaxy. This society consists of one species only....

 

and that is the flood.  

 

Yes, it is true, just think about this. The entire species works together towards a common goal, which is pretty much to infect any possible hosts and continue to reproduce. they do not have any second thoughts or conflicting parties in their society, they simply all work in unison without question. Eventually a gravemind or proto-gravemind can develop, which establishes a sense of leadership and organization. Every single organism of the flood works to accomplish the same goal and advance their species. Utopia

 

I do find this fact somewhat disturbing, that a paracstic species has perfected a way of life. compare this to modern day humans, and how everyone just looks for their own personal pleasure. but the flood all work in unison for a good cause....well, at least to them it is a good cause.this has made me question what perfection really is, and this idea can turn into a very philosophical discussion.

 

I'm very interested in hearing the community's thoughts about this. do you agree? disagree?? Any responses are appreciated, thanks for reading

 

 

 

 

[Yoshi1176]

You blew my mind. I would have never thought of it like that.

[BearClawsKiller]

You amaze me with your knowledge. Yea but your right. The Flood are all one; united as a pack. While we struggle to survive against one another.

[Caboose The Ace]

yes very disurbing and how a the flood have perfected they way of liefe makes me think and see how bad the human race is

Edited March 4, 2013 by Caboose the Ace

[MCPO Mayh3m]

What an opening post. Great and well thought out. 

Interesting idea you have there, and I would say you really have me thinking now as well.

[SykoWolf]

Well, you see the flood is perfect in its own way, it's consumes everything and can make everything "whole" in a way.

Turning entirely different civilisations into a single life form.

 

This an a shared consciousness is truly...perfect, however, not exactly what people would like.

 

Similar to Xenomorphs, they are the perfect killing machine, pretty much designed for war and are perfect, in their own way.

 

I always had these thoughts and it truly is fascinating.

[Victory Element]

After thinking a bit more, i'm trying to figure out what would happen to the flood after it achieves its main purpose.... After every life form has been infected by the parasite....

 

Will they still be perfect if they no longer have the same goal?? Do they evolve in some way to form a new society?? I am really not sure

[Absolute Dog]

The Flood is not a species as you have assumed, yet they are a parasite that infects the host. They are more like a virus or bacteria that infects sentient life forms and can only animate the corpse, not control any higher functions. They are no utopian society, they are equivalent to a foot fungus or the flu.

[skummgummigubbe]

The Flood is not a species as you have assumed, yet they are a parasite that infects the host. They are more like a virus or bacteria that infects sentient life forms and can only animate the corpse, not control any higher functions. They are no utopian society, they are equivalent to a foot fungus or the flu.

 wait i have heard that, it depends on who they "infect" the smarter thay get.

 

i may  be wrong, but it is said in HALO: LEGENDS

[Harbinger]

Yea I think it said something like that. I think thats how Halo Legends said the flood beat the Forerunners because for each person the flood took over it gains that person's knowledge. By doing that it found their planets, countered their stratigies, and found resistances. At least I think; I could be wrong.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Harbinger

[SykoWolf]

The Flood is not a species as you have assumed, yet they are a parasite that infects the host. They are more like a virus or bacteria that infects sentient life forms and can only animate the corpse, not control any higher functions. They are no utopian society, they are equivalent to a foot fungus or the flu.

Yes, the flood are indeed what you say they are.

However, when they reach a certain mass, a gravemind is formed.

And a gravemind is certainly intelligent.

[Caboose The Ace]

the flood was oringnal created by the precoseres for revenge agisnt the forunners becase the precsores created the forruners to be givent he mantle of responbilty but in the end the precosers thought the forruners where not fit to do so then a war began and the forruners won so the flood and humnaity was created in revenge

 

the flood for revenge

humanity to hold the mantle

Edited March 4, 2013 by Caboose the Ace

[Bloody Initiate]

Eh, I don't try to model my philosophies on ants or bees, which are similarly "perfect" but not at all sentient. There are plenty of "perfect" societal structures and in all cases it's because the creatures which make them up tend to be mindless drones. If African Americans weren't people then American Southern culture could have been "perfect" because they had someone doing the work for them and they got to spend all day visiting with each other and drinking sweet tea. However African Americans ARE people and so instead of "Utopia" you get "Slavery" and that's neither unique nor impressive.

 

While I think you can refer to a large collection of organisms with a structure as a "society" or you can at least refer to that structure as a "society," I don't really think the concept of "Utopia" applies to any "society" that isn't sentient, or if it does then I'm about as interested in Utopia as I am in the Flood. The Flood are just something suitably creepy that Bungie thought up as a video game villain, I don't know if they intended to have the biblical allusion when they first made the game but it's all just a fabrication, so it can't ever really be "perfect" and it isn't especially intriguing to me therefore.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Bloody Initiate

[Victory Element]

The Flood is not a species as you have assumed, yet they are a parasite that infects the host. They are more like a virus or bacteria that infects sentient life forms and can only animate the corpse, not control any higher functions. They are no utopian society, they are equivalent to a foot fungus or the flu.

 

With all due respect, I believe that you greatly underestimate the power of the flood. When a flood spore infects an organism, it gains control over all of the knowledge that host previously held. This knowledge is interpreted in order to find the locations of more possible hosts and use the technology of other races. Once the flood begins to thrive within an area, a proto-gravemind begins to evolve. These flood forms only evolve from the most intelligent hosts that have been infected, which includes mainly military officers, pilots, and engineers. They keep their victims alive, and slowly torture their minds in order to gain key knowledge. This is the first form of flood leadership. If the flood has proper conditions to grow even more, a gravemind will develop. Graveminds serve as leaders to all flood organisms within their control and work as a communication hub. A telepathic consciousness is shared among all flood units when a gravemind is present, and this allows them to statigically coordinate attacks using knowledge gained by indivuduals. the flood is no foot fungus

 

Eh, I don't try to model my philosophies on ants or bees, which are similarly "perfect" but not at all sentient. There are plenty of "perfect" societal structures and in all cases it's because the creatures which make them up tend to be mindless drones. If African Americans weren't people then American Southern culture could have been "perfect" because they had someone doing the work for them and they got to spend all day visiting with each other and drinking sweet tea. However African Americans ARE people and so instead of "Utopia" you get "Slavery" and that's neither unique nor impressive.

 

While I think you can refer to a large collection of organisms with a structure as a "society" or you can at least refer to that structure as a "society," I don't really think the concept of "Utopia" applies to any "society" that isn't sentient, or if it does then I'm about as interested in Utopia as I am in the Flood. The Flood are just something suitably creepy that Bungie thought up as a video game villain, I don't know if they intended to have the biblical allusion when they first made the game but it's all just a fabrication, so it can't ever really be "perfect" and it isn't especially intriguing to me therefore.

 

you say the flood is not sentient, and i will agree that is a valid statement in the flood's early stages. But as the flood evolves and begins to thrive, that becomes a whole new story. As i said above, once a gravemind is developed, a telepathic consciousness is shared among all of the flood units. The gravemind takes an important leadership role, and does not rely purely on instinct such as a queen bee would. a gravemind is able to coordinate strategic attacks, as well as negotiate with other organisms. Take halo 3 as an example, the gravemind freely chose to form a truce with the human forces, but later decided to betray them. This is an action that could only be possible with an ability to reason. the ability to reason is a feature only shared by sentient life,  the flood is much more complex than you may think

[Bloody Initiate]

While I won't argue that the gravemind appears to have traits of a sentient organism, I don't think you have a good handle on what makes a creature sentient. It has less to do with reasoning (which plenty of animals can do, contrary to your claim) and more to do with awareness.

 

However I think if bees were allowed to run the place for awhile they'd probably evolve into something special. Apes, Dolphins, and Parrots are already damn smart. You're talking about an evolved organism, all organisms can evolve.

 

Don't forget the Flood are effectively an apex predator, which is extremely significant to their evolution. If you don't have anything that can kill and eat you, then you relax and focus your development on other things. That's what happened to us. We got good enough at surviving that we could relax a little and grow our brains.

 

Also the initial flood aren't sentient and they don't have a gravemind, they're just worker bees, but they're actually not nearly as "perfect" as you claim because they're parasitic. Bees develop an equilibrium with their environment, they're basically farmers, and they live happily ever after within their means. They don't spread themselves thin or exhaust their resources (as the flood do), so they're really much more utopian than flood. Since flood only develop one mind, they're not even a society. They aren't made up of individuals, they're mindless drones until they get one gravemind, then they're an individual with many limbs. I just don't see the argument for them being any kind of effective society or utopia. They're just a particularly effective parasite, no more capable than a bunch of bacteria in your stomach.

[Victory Element]

i do repsect your opinion, but i only wanted to share a piece of insformation that i found. I'm too tired at the moment to debate, so i will let your statement stand as it is

Edited March 5, 2013 by Victory Element

[medcsu]

Halo Silentium will share insight into the true nature of the Flood. However, that being said, the Flood were created as a weapon, a kind of "last resort" or "answer at hand" (Halo Cryptum) by the Precursors aimed at the Forerunners.

 

It is my belief that in Silentium we will discover the Flood evolved from the original intent of the Precursors and through this evolution became sentient.

 

I have said it before in many posts and will say it again now, we (the player) have not even come close to seeing the full fury of the Flood yet. What we have faced is nothing compared to what the Forerunners were dealing with, not even in the same league.

[Baeztoberfest]

The closest thing I can compare the flood hierarchy to is the Zerg. They have Zerg Overlords who control certain broods and develop agendas based on higher forms. This being a standard "Gravemind". Only the Zerg weren't a utopia as it has been referred. It was just a mindless collaboration of drones as it were.

 

The same applies for the Flood. That being said this will never be a fully answered question because each persons definition of what a Utopia is, is different. The consensus seems to be that like the Zerg, the Flood are simply a parasite and such an evolved word only applies to intelligent beings not bacteria or fungus or parasites no matter how profound their devastation is.

 

To take this discussion to an even further level, consider the AIDS virus. It's ability to cripple its host and effectively kill off anything with a 100% kill rate and no natural enemies, and it's unified goal is to kill its host, does that mean that the virus has achieved a utopia, or is it merely carrying out a basic need to simply "continue".

 

Compare this to Resident Evils "T-Virus". It infects its host and afterwards it metamorphosed into a simple killing machine. An organisms prowess doesn't define it's utopian agenda.

 

The Zerg, The T-Virus, and AIDS are the best examples I could compare the Flood too. None of which are to be considered a Utopia by any of their unified abilities.

[WonderWombat]

The flood isn't a society as a vital component is missing from that, which is culture. The abolition of culture would make them just working for a ideology, and ideology that ins't even theirs but a gravemind's.

 

Also Utopia means perfect society so without the society they cannot be a Utopia.

 

As we learn more about the Forerunner I'd say they were about as close to a Utopia as one could get without being a drone.

Edited March 10, 2013 by WonderWombat

[Sierra1117]

Victory you are absolutely right. At first I thought you were talking about how the human society(minus the innies) seemed so peaceful, but you're right because regardless of whether they're a simple flu or an actual organism, they work together to achieve a goal without hesitation or confusion. It'd be great to see this thought explored more in future installments of the series. Great thought!

[Victory Element]

Okay, many of you have discussed how the flood is just like a virus or mindless drone which doesnt make them a society. I wil say that you made some very logical points, especially wonder wombat. They dont seem to have a legitamit "society" or culture, which does not make them a utopia. But after thinking about this situation, i realized that there may be much more to this than i had earlier anticipated

 

allow me to reference some halo fiction. It is extremely implied that the flood and precursors are of the same species. Though the origins and specific connections are unknown at the moment, it can easily be supported by evidence from the text. anyways, in order for the flood and precursors to be of the same species, either the precursors would have to evolve from the flood, or the flood was evovled from the precursors. Its unlikely that the precurosrs evolved into the flood, because the flood was discovered in the form of a powder. so it can be reasoned that the precurors evolved form the flood. In order for that to happen, the flood would have had to infect all of the life in a previous galaxy and began evolution from there. They eventually became the most powerful and advanced beings ever known in the halo universe. they surely had a form of society and organization in order to begin creating all of the other life in the galaxy. So eventually, the flood can evolve from a parasitic state into an independent society under the right conditions.

 

i wanted to point that fact out to show that flood almost certainly has a state of being a true society once it can develop. If you disagree woth any of my information, i'm reading to discuss some facts. also, if you want more clarification about the general process of evolution, i would be happy to explain.

 

*note, do not turn the topic of evolution into a relgious discussion. If this helps clarify, the Catholic church has already accepted evolution years ago

[AnimalDenWinter]

Brilliant post. Very interesting and scary.........a bit. 

Well, I somehow agree with you, there must be a creator of the flood

after all. Maybe In Halo 5 or 6. 

 

PS: Good post.

[Fishy]

Brilliant post. Very interesting and scary.........a bit. 

Well, I somehow agree with you, there must be a creator of the flood

after all. Maybe In Halo 5 or 6. 

 

PS: Good post.

 

The precursors created the flood.

[Victory Element]

 

The precursors created the flood.

 

they did technically "create" the flood, but they are pretty much the same species. Just a different  form in their cycle of evolution. I talked about it a bit in my post at the top of this page

[Fishy]

they did technically "create" the flood, but they are pretty much the same species. Just a different  form in their cycle of evolution. I talked about it a bit in my post at the top of this page

Well this is what a read.

"It is more than likely that the Precursors created the Flood as an act of vengeance on the Forerunners after those two species finished the war with each other. As the Precursors were forced out of the galaxy by the Forerunners, the Precursors released the Flood."