Criticism Do's and Don'ts

[Flyingshoe ILR]

Over the past few years in the forging community, I've found that most people are pretty good about giving and taking feedback respectfully. That said, not everyone is, and when it goes bad it seems to go bad quickly and climactically. This thread will go over some of the basics of how to give and receive feedback in a respectful manner conducive to an atmosphere of growth and improvement. 

 

1. Giving Feedback

 

Before giving feedback, make sure you have at the very least downloaded the persons map and taken a walk around it. Look at it in detail and try to draw some conclusions about what you are noticing. After that play it if you are able and if nothing seems game-breaking or extremely unpleasant. Play multiple games if you can, possibly taking notes on what you notice. When posting the feedback over a forum such as this one, make sure to keep emotions as neutral as possible and to do your best to be unoffensive. What may not bother you may annoy or offend others, so it is best to keep feedback for people you don't know professional. Make sure the person understands how much time you spent looking at the map and whether or not you played it at all (not playing the map is not a reason for them to reject your feedback, which I will discuss later.) Finally, understand that your experience was only one possible angle, and that further testing or a different viewpoint may make your feedback irrelevant. Even so, make it clear that this is what you saw and try to supply some reasonable suggestions to fix the issues, though remember that they may not be taken. Sometimes maps simply can't be fixed to play very well. However, very few people want to hear this so you must be able to back up your argument and make sure they understand why it doesn't work and how they could do things differently in another map. 

 

2. Receiving Feedback

 

When receiving feedback from someone else, always remember to take it with a grain of salt. You may not agree with the feedback, you may even flagrantly disagree, but don't waste your time explaining to the person why they are wrong. After all, they just took the time to freely help you out with your map. Simply thank them for the feedback, and judge it for yourself. Almost all feedback, even that which seems blatantly wrong, is worth looking into. The person may have been wrong, but even going back and confirming that something is not a problem helps you in the long run. A forger must always be open to feedback, whether they like it or not. It is still the forger's choice to integrate the changes or not, so do not feel threatened if people say your map needs large changes or may even be unfixable (make them explain themselves in this case of course.) In the end, the best thing to do is simply look into their suggestions and be open minded about what is really going on on your map. 

 

What one should not do is reply with a long argument about why your map doesn't have the problems other say it has. Many forgers get defensive about their designs or take offense at the way someone gave the feedback. Always assume that people are not trying to be offensive in a post unless it is truly blatant, at which point you should take the higher ground and remind them to act more appropriately. Maturity is key when dealing with criticism, and the worst you can do is stoop to the level of the other person. If they are truly belligerent about it and are yelling at you it is best to ask them to leave the conversation. 

 

Here is an example of a good response to feedback that you found ridiculous or completely baseless:

 

"While I do not agree that my map has these problems, and I have never heard of anyone else having them, I will look into them just in case. Thank you for the feedback."

 

This response is clean, short, gets the point across, and does not risk starting an argument. Even in the case of a total idiot or troll giving you feedback, maintaining professional speech will give them no ammo to use against you and will bore them. In drastic cases it is also a good idea to simply stop replying to the person early on and ask a moderator to remove their comments. 

 

3. Common Flawed Arguments

 

There are many arguments that people try to use when receiving criticism that are fundamentally flawed. Getting these as responses to feedback is frustrating, and understanding why they do not work and being able to articulate it is key. 

 

• "Your feedback is invalid because you did not play the map, you only looked at it/ walked around it in Forge." 

 

This is one of the biggest cop-out arguments there is for forgers. It has been proven time and time again that even a decent forger can look at a map in forge for a while and gain an understanding of some of its flaws and weaknesses, especially if there are large ones. I would never argue that everything can be understood, and playing the map will always give one a better understanding than just looking at it, but a lot can be learned by analyzing a map in forge. Forgers who have been around a while recognize things that they have watched others do or that they remember doing themselves, things that may seem like a good idea at the time but rarely play well. An example of this would be building a giant bridge map connecting 2 distant land masses, or having a series of long tunnels in a map with no line of sight blockers or alternate routes. Forgers can often tell that a map has problems without playing on it because, in essence they HAVE played on maps with similar concepts many times. Some things will be different, but the largest flaws will still have the same effects. There are always those 0.1% of maps that somehow pull it off alright, but in almost ever situation it is easy to tell if a map has large issues before a game is even started. Playing the map is helpful for feedback, but definitely not always necessary.

 

• "I had my friends look at the map, and they liked it, so you must be biased against me or my map." 

• "My friends are great forgers and they like it, so you must be wrong."

 

These arguments are fallacious because they assume a number of things that may or may not be true: That the reviewer is biased, that the friends are actually good designers/ forgers, that the friends are right, and that more people saying something makes it the correct thing. "That millions of people share the same forms of mental pathology does not make these people sane." – Erich Fromm, The Sane Society. Similarly, that all of someone's friends like a map does not make that map good. The same argument can be made for certain maps or weapons in Halo 4, but that is another thread. Assuming how someone feels about a map is also baseless, as you can't truly know how they feel over the internet. 

 

• "You're just telling my map map is bad to make yourself look good and keep me down!"

 

This one is just plain insulting. It takes a lot of time and effort to help people out with their designs while working on improving your own and trying to live life (not to mention it's finals week as I write this!) To tell someone who just went out of their way to help you that you are working against them is about the most insulting thing you can say to them. This is a situation in which it is time to call the person out and ask them to grow up or get out. 

 

• "I've been forging for years/ I'm a level designer/ I have more experience than you."

 

This is a logical fallacy. While experience helps, the quality of a map speaks for itself. Even good, experienced forgers can make bad maps at times. Having level design experience or having experience in another program also does not transfer over to forge necessarily. Similarly, the halo sandbox is different from other sandboxes, so even someone who has designed for Counter-Strike may not make a map that is particularly good for Halo. Finally, a high quantity of maps made does not equal high quality maps made. 38 bad maps are still bad maps. As I sated above, the quality of a map speaks for itself. 

 

Conclusion

 

The Halo Community, especially the forging community, is a great place to go for honest feedback. This feedback may be harsh, but as long as a level of respect is maintained you can gain a lot by both giving and receiving criticism. Remember, the goal of anyone giving you feedback is to help you better understand forging/ design in general as well as to improve your map,  so make sure this is always the reason you are giving feedback as well. Respect, open-mindedness, and healthy skepticism are the keys to unlocking your forging potential. 

[BaconShelf]

I hope this is pinned, I really do. Well written and worded, I applaud you for this!

[Fishy]

I agree with BaconShelf, but I also think that Feedback is most important. Don't be afraid to say things like "This map ia crap" or "You should change this.." those are some inspirational thoughts that might get you to thinking about it and playing around with the map a little more.

[Caboose The Ace]

 

Over the past few years in the forging community, I've found that most people are pretty good about giving and taking feedback respectfully. That said, not everyone is, and when it goes bad it seems to go bad quickly and climactically. This thread will go over some of the basics of how to give and receive feedback in a respectful manner conducive to an atmosphere of growth and improvement. 

 

1. Giving Feedback

 

Before giving feedback, make sure you have at the very least downloaded the persons map and taken a walk around it. Look at it in detail and try to draw some conclusions about what you are noticing. After that play it if you are able and if nothing seems game-breaking or extremely unpleasant. Play multiple games if you can, possibly taking notes on what you notice. When posting the feedback over a forum such as this one, make sure to keep emotions as neutral as possible and to do your best to be unoffensive. What may not bother you may annoy or offend others, so it is best to keep feedback for people you don't know professional. Make sure the person understands how much time you spent looking at the map and whether or not you played it at all (not playing the map is not a reason for them to reject your feedback, which I will discuss later.) Finally, understand that your experience was only one possible angle, and that further testing or a different viewpoint may make your feedback irrelevant. Even so, make it clear that this is what you saw and try to supply some reasonable suggestions to fix the issues, though remember that they may not be taken. Sometimes maps simply can't be fixed to play very well. However, very few people want to hear this so you must be able to back up your argument and make sure they understand why it doesn't work and how they could do things differently in another map. 

 

2. Receiving Feedback

 

When receiving feedback from someone else, always remember to take it with a grain of salt. You may not agree with the feedback, you may even flagrantly disagree, but don't waste your time explaining to the person why they are wrong. After all, they just took the time to freely help you out with your map. Simply thank them for the feedback, and judge it for yourself. Almost all feedback, even that which seems blatantly wrong, is worth looking into. The person may have been wrong, but even going back and confirming that something is not a problem helps you in the long run. A forger must always be open to feedback, whether they like it or not. It is still the forger's choice to integrate the changes or not, so do not feel threatened if people say your map needs large changes or may even be unfixable (make them explain themselves in this case of course.) In the end, the best thing to do is simply look into their suggestions and be open minded about what is really going on on your map. 

 

What one should not do is reply with a long argument about why your map doesn't have the problems other say it has. Many forgers get defensive about their designs or take offense at the way someone gave the feedback. Always assume that people are not trying to be offensive in a post unless it is truly blatant, at which point you should take the higher ground and remind them to act more appropriately. Maturity is key when dealing with criticism, and the worst you can do is stoop to the level of the other person. If they are truly belligerent about it and are yelling at you it is best to ask them to leave the conversation. 

 

Here is an example of a good response to feedback that you found ridiculous or completely baseless:

 

"While I do not agree that my map has these problems, and I have never heard of anyone else having them, I will look into them just in case. Thank you for the feedback."

 

This response is clean, short, gets the point across, and does not risk starting an argument. Even in the case of a total idiot or troll giving you feedback, maintaining professional speech will give them no ammo to use against you and will bore them. In drastic cases it is also a good idea to simply stop replying to the person early on and ask a moderator to remove their comments. 

 

3. Common Flawed Arguments

 

There are many arguments that people try to use when receiving criticism that are fundamentally flawed. Getting these as responses to feedback is frustrating, and understanding why they do not work and being able to articulate it is key. 

 

• "Your feedback is invalid because you did not play the map, you only looked at it/ walked around it in Forge." 

 

This is one of the biggest cop-out arguments there is for forgers. It has been proven time and time again that even a decent forger can look at a map in forge for a while and gain an understanding of some of its flaws and weaknesses, especially if there are large ones. I would never argue that everything can be understood, and playing the map will always give one a better understanding than just looking at it, but a lot can be learned by analyzing a map in forge. Forgers who have been around a while recognize things that they have watched others do or that they remember doing themselves, things that may seem like a good idea at the time but rarely play well. An example of this would be building a giant bridge map connecting 2 distant land masses, or having a series of long tunnels in a map with no line of sight blockers or alternate routes. Forgers can often tell that a map has problems without playing on it because, in essence they HAVE played on maps with similar concepts many times. Some things will be different, but the largest flaws will still have the same effects. There are always those 0.1% of maps that somehow pull it off alright, but in almost ever situation it is easy to tell if a map has large issues before a game is even started. Playing the map is helpful for feedback, but definitely not always necessary.

 

• "I had my friends look at the map, and they liked it, so you must be biased against me or my map." 

• "My friends are great forgers and they like it, so you must be wrong."

 

These arguments are fallacious because they assume a number of things that may or may not be true: That the reviewer is biased, that the friends are actually good designers/ forgers, that the friends are right, and that more people saying something makes it the correct thing. "That millions of people share the same forms of mental pathology does not make these people sane." – Erich Fromm, The Sane Society. Similarly, that all of someone's friends like a map does not make that map good. The same argument can be made for certain maps or weapons in Halo 4, but that is another thread. Assuming how someone feels about a map is also baseless, as you can't truly know how they feel over the internet. 

 

• "You're just telling my map map is bad to make yourself look good and keep me down!"

 

This one is just plain insulting. It takes a lot of time and effort to help people out with their designs while working on improving your own and trying to live life (not to mention it's finals week as I write this!) To tell someone who just went out of their way to help you that you are working against them is about the most insulting thing you can say to them. This is a situation in which it is time to call the person out and ask them to grow up or get out. 

 

• "I've been forging for years/ I'm a level designer/ I have more experience than you."

 

This is a logical fallacy. While experience helps, the quality of a map speaks for itself. Even good, experienced forgers can make bad maps at times. Having level design experience or having experience in another program also does not transfer over to forge necessarily. Similarly, the halo sandbox is different from other sandboxes, so even someone who has designed for Counter-Strike may not make a map that is particularly good for Halo. Finally, a high quantity of maps made does not equal high quality maps made. 38 bad maps are still bad maps. As I sated above, the quality of a map speaks for itself. 

 

Conclusion

 

The Halo Community, especially the forging community, is a great place to go for honest feedback. This feedback may be harsh, but as long as a level of respect is maintained you can gain a lot by both giving and receiving criticism. Remember, the goal of anyone giving you feedback is to help you better understand forging/ design in general as well as to improve your map,  so make sure this is always the reason you are giving feedback as well. Respect, open-mindedness, and healthy skepticism are the keys to unlocking your forging potential. 

 

this is so true and one of the best post I have ever seen really well written and worded kudos to you kudos

[Flyingshoe ILR]

I agree with BaconShelf, but I also think that Feedback is most important. Don't be afraid to say things like "This map ia crap" or "You should change this.." those are some inspirational thoughts that might get you to thinking about it and playing around with the map a little more.

While you should absolutely be giving feedback, telling someone that their map is "crap" is definitely not the way to go. As I stated above, you want to avoid offending people with feedback, so a better way tis to show them exactly what the issues are and how they might be fixed instead of just saying the map is bad. Say what is bad, not that it's bad. 

[fabian33]

hahaha so fun i love star wars broski