I'm Sorry *facepalm*

[Flippant Sol]

When I first watched the first trailer for Conversion, I was like "A new gametype, for the community, by the community with new rules and laws? No way!" And I when I said "No way" I would never know that I was right: Conversion is a recycle.

 

Why make a big deal out of a gametype that technically isn't a gametype (a gametype works on standard or ALL maps) that isn't modded (meaning I could make the entire thing myself in one day and it would be less or equal to this quality) and basically has you following verbal honor codes, something that little kids do in custom games called role-playing, and I play Halo to kill stuff, not to role-play. In fact, I don't consider Conversion a gametype, I consider it a competitive teamwork minigame. It excludes the general forger and is just a way to make other forgers jealous and feel pity, but all it really does is promote the maps of the THFE exclusives that just put too much dedication in their hands.

 

Look, I'm not trying to offend anybody, okay? I'm just putting this entire thing in retrospect. I was disappointed, that's all I meant to say, really. It's just that THFE is kind of like 343 I when it comes to things like this.

[Guest Oakley HiDef]

Hmmm interesting. I think the best way to approach criticism is to see their point of view. So lets get started.

 

1. Conversion technically isn't a gametype. I think it is not in our power to make a completely new gametype so I will grant you that yes this is in fact not an entirely new gametype. It is rather a construct coming from an already established one. What it does do however is use the mechanics of that gametype to make something new in an innovative way which plays differently and if we had the power to add our own emblems and animations then i think you would consider it a gametype. I think it may be just semantics however to say what is and is not a gametype so I'll leave this where it is as it has no bearing on anything.

 

2. Conversion is not modded. YAY, there is 100% agreement.

 

3. Conversion has you following honor rules. This is NOT true as the game type has been built to play without the need for them. The mechanics have been ironed out to prevent players from adhering to rules and everything in the game dynamics is basically locked into either the map construction or game type to make it play without "role-play." I can maybe understand how you came to your conclusion if we have not given you enough information yet or if you missed something. Either way we assure you that it does not involve honor rules.

 

4. Conversion excludes the general forger and simply promotes THFE. Maybe you think this because the game type seems complicated and thus the only maps you have seen were made by us. Let me address this. The game type does require some more skill and finesse to make compared to other games. This was the case with Invasion in Reach. Few people understood how to label things correctly let alone build a balanced map. That does  not mean however that it is some sort of exclusive game... it just has a slightly steeper learning curve. We will be rolling out with tutorials soon anyways to help explain. As for claiming the maps are just THFE exclusives. Well actually the only "THFE member" to have worked on it was Psychoduck. The rest of the work was outsourced to other members of the competitive community in terms of map and gametype tweaking. We even brought in other YouTube groups to work with us and they will soon be releasing a map that plays conversion really well.

 

5. "It's just that THFE is kind of like 343 I when it comes to things like this."

 

Oh my... well...

 

 

This makes me sad... for many reasons...

 

The first reason is that you seem to be implying that we are like a company with some agenda. Lets not even get into the discussion over what you think of 343 and how I'm guessing your comment was meant to be taken with a negative connotation. We sweat and bleed for Halo, as do the hard working ladies and gentlemen at 343 industries.

 

I think you have to realize the sheer amount of work that goes into these sorts of projects. Countless hours of building, testing, tweaking, presenting, sharing, explaining... all of this we do to help keep Halo alive. We have created a new gametype and polished it to the point where it plays magnificently, has 3 maps to support it, and is now ready to be handed over to the community. Our members are all from the community. We have at all steps of the way supported other people in the community. Map/Gametype features, Contests, Giveaways, Community Spotlights, News, Custom Game Nights... the list goes on and on. It is shocking to me that people would be anything but grateful for helping to keep the franchise alive while it may be struggling. I am pretty tired of the conspiracy theories directed at us and 343. Do we secretly want to control Halo? Are we mad with power? Do we just jerk each other off with spotlighting our hard work and that of others? Do we make massive profits creating free content for the community? No

 

We all want what is best for Halo and are pouring everything into making it a better experience for everyone, even if they don't want to appreciate it. 

[Flippant Sol]

Hmmm interesting. I think the best way to approach criticism is to see their point of view. So lets get started.

 

1. Conversion technically isn't a gametype. I think it is not in our power to make a completely new gametype so I will grant you that yes this is in fact not an entirely new gametype. It is rather a construct coming from an already established one. What it does do however is use the mechanics of that gametype to make something new in an innovative way which plays differently and if we had the power to add our own emblems and animations then i think you would consider it a gametype. I think it may be just semantics however to say what is and is not a gametype so I'll leave this where it is as it has no bearing on anything.

 

2. Conversion is not modded. YAY, there is 100% agreement.

 

3. Conversion has you following honor rules. This is NOT true as the game type has been built to play without the need for them. The mechanics have been ironed out to prevent players from adhering to rules and everything in the game dynamics is basically locked into either the map construction or game type to make it play without "role-play." I can maybe understand how you came to your conclusion if we have not given you enough information yet or if you missed something. Either way we assure you that it does not involve honor rules.

 

4. Conversion excludes the general forger and simply promotes THFE. Maybe you think this because the game type seems complicated and thus the only maps you have seen were made by us. Let me address this. The game type does require some more skill and finesse to make compared to other games. This was the case with Invasion in Reach. Few people understood how to label things correctly let alone build a balanced map. That does  not mean however that it is some sort of exclusive game... it just has a slightly steeper learning curve. We will be rolling out with tutorials soon anyways to help explain. As for claiming the maps are just THFE exclusives. Well actually the only "THFE member" to have worked on it was Psychoduck. The rest of the work was outsourced to other members of the competitive community in terms of map and gametype tweaking. We even brought in other YouTube groups to work with us and they will soon be releasing a map that plays conversion really well.

 

5. "It's just that THFE is kind of like 343 I when it comes to things like this."

 

Oh my... well...

 

 

This makes me sad... for many reasons...

 

The first reason is that you seem to be implying that we are like a company with some agenda. Lets not even get into the discussion over what you think of 343 and how I'm guessing your comment was meant to be taken with a negative connotation. We sweat and bleed for Halo, as do the hard working ladies and gentlemen at 343 industries.

 

I think you have to realize the sheer amount of work that goes into these sorts of projects. Countless hours of building, testing, tweaking, presenting, sharing, explaining... all of this we do to help keep Halo alive. We have created a new gametype and polished it to the point where it plays magnificently, has 3 maps to support it, and is now ready to be handed over to the community. Our members are all from the community. We have at all steps of the way supported other people in the community. Map/Gametype features, Contests, Giveaways, Community Spotlights, News, Custom Game Nights... the list goes on and on. It is shocking to me that people would be anything but grateful for helping to keep the franchise alive while it may be struggling. I am pretty tired of the conspiracy theories directed at us and 343. Do we secretly want to control Halo? Are we mad with power? Do we just jerk each other off with spotlighting our hard work and that of others? Do we make massive profits creating free content for the community? No

 

We all want what is best for Halo and are pouring everything into making it a better experience for everyone, even if they don't want to appreciate it. 

You touched every subject...Except where i said "Because it isn't modded, I can spend an entire day replicating it and it would still be as good".

Apologies on the "343" thing.

[Guest Psychoduck]

The point about the non-modded thing was simple.  Yes, you could easily copy the same game settings over to another extraction mode.  It would take perhaps a maximum of ten minutes.  The thing you're missing is this: none of these settings were reached arbitrarily.  They were all decided upon after analyzing mountains of data compiled from numerous playtests.  Additionally, the gametype is rather simple compared to the maps, which received even more modifications through playtesting.  My question is this, if Conversion was so easy to create, why had no one else done it?

 

Aside from that, Oakley really covered everything.  I am a bit disappointed that after spending seven months creating something purely for the enjoyment of others, I now have to defend in the eyes of the people I've worked so hard to please.  What it comes down to is this: if you don't have any interest in playing Conversion, or you've played it but didn't personally enjoy it, that's your prerogative.  However, please do not attack the people who have sacrificed so much of their time trying to give you a new and fun experience when playing Halo.  You don't have to like it, but you need to at least understand that the motivation behind the mode's creation was your own enjoyment.

[Flippant Sol]

The point about the non-modded thing was simple.  Yes, you could easily copy the same game settings over to another extraction mode.  It would take perhaps a maximum of ten minutes.  The thing you're missing is this: none of these settings were reached arbitrarily.  They were all decided upon after analyzing mountains of data compiled from numerous playtests.  Additionally, the gametype is rather simple compared to the maps, which received even more modifications through playtesting.  My question is this, if Conversion was so easy to create, why had no one else done it?

 

Aside from that, Oakley really covered everything.  I am a bit disappointed that after spending seven months creating something purely for the enjoyment of others, I now have to defend in the eyes of the people I've worked so hard to please.  What it comes down to is this: if you don't have any interest in playing Conversion, or you've played it but didn't personally enjoy it, that's your prerogative.  However, please do not attack the people who have sacrificed so much of their time trying to give you a new and fun experience when playing Halo.  You don't have to like it, but you need to at least understand that the motivation behind the mode's creation was your own enjoyment.

I know, but it's so hard to get around places when you leave those extra bit people out. Ever since I joined 343i.org, I've been seasonally posting maps. None ever received download count, comment, like, or video overview. See that's just the way this works. Oh well, I'll just be in the Marathon Universe making map files that get about 68 downloads once their obsolete. That's what this website needs, a Download meter.

[Guest Psychoduck]

If it makes you feel any better, I started off on ForgeHub where i got no respect, no notice and no downloads.  Instead of attacking those who did, I took it upon myself to go the extra mile to earn respect, notice, and downloads.  You just have to talk to people, play with people, be persistent.  Everyone starts with the same cards, it all depends on how you play them.  

 

Also, bashing someone else's work is not really an acceptable outlet for your frustration about your own work going unnoticed.

[Guest Oakley HiDef]

 

I know, but it's so hard to get around places when you leave those extra bit people out. Ever since I joined 343i.org, I've been seasonally posting maps. None ever received download count, comment, like, or video overview. See that's just the way this works. Oh well, I'll just be in the Marathon Universe making map files that get about 68 downloads once their obsolete. That's what this website needs, a Download meter.

 

 

We understand that the features can be a hairy subject for some people. If we had all the man power in the world then we could comb through all the maps that are submitted and really show off the good ones. In reality our time is amazingly limited and I'm surprised that we can keep things afloat. I currently have a summer internship, am taking two online classes, try to keep two YouTube channels afloat, and in my spare time relax for the summer. Psychoduck is equally busy as are we all.

 

It can be frustrating not to get the attention that you probably deserve. Trust me we have all been there. As has been stated before, we all come from the community and have experienced the ups and downs. It took me years to get noticed and have any attention. Posts on forgehub got little to nothing and I would basically have to grovel in lobbies to get a map tested. Yeah its still an imperfect system but im still glad that we have been able to spotlight so many more people than how it used to be in the past. 

 

At the end of the day its important to realize that everyone is human and has their limitations. This is especially important in remembering in these online formats where someone can so easily be shrouded behind their gemertag or what have you. We hope to get better and showcase more people but as always its a work in progress. There is no intended slight towards anyone and we do what we can.

 

Anyways I'm Julien and I am sorry if this may have seemed to come off as disrespectful in any way. I'm over in Washington DC right now and its freaking hot as hell. Hope you are having a good summer man, take care

[Flippant Sol]

To be honest, I just solely tested Conversion, and for what it is, it's not bad. It's not something to put in an MLG Tourney either, but meh. My one problem with this gametype is how The News group and Absolute Dog presented it, as if it was the answer to every problem in gaming, I mean, before you guys have put your stuff in the news group, but not with Three trailers! It was disappointing to what I found in the latest one, and that led to the creation of this post.

[Absolute Dog]

 

To be honest, I just solely tested Conversion, and for what it is, it's not bad. It's not something to put in an MLG Tourney either, but meh. My one problem with this gametype is how The News group and Absolute Dog presented it, as if it was the answer to every problem in gaming, I mean, before you guys have put your stuff in the news group, but not with Three trailers! It was disappointing to what I found in the latest one, and that led to the creation of this post.

 

Wait a second here.....you now want to try and blame me for the fact that you went off on THFE's Conversion game type without playing it?  I never once said, inferred, implied, insinuated or eluded to anything about Conversion being the answer to every problem in gaming. I am sorry you have not received feedback on your maps, but attacking THFE, then our news group and then me is not where blame lays for your original post. I am proud of Psycho Duck and Flyingshoe ILR for their hard work and dedication to this new game type.

 

 Maybe you need to remember one of your own post....

 

 

( Mecha Death Rhino                                                                                Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:45 PM

 

 

 

How to make a Valid Argument

Hello, and welcome to my essay about how to make a valid argument. In this article, you find the essentials that are needed to make your argument valid. It will also justify what is bad, and what is optional. The key elements to a valid argument is determining comparisons and contrasts, showing multiple perspectives of the debate, providing logical reasoning, and citing all possible sources.

Determining Comparisons and Contrasts

In order for a debate to perform, it needs an organized table of pros and cons, which leads to my second point. A valid argument MUST have more pros then cons, otherwise it is not valid, and these pros and cons must also have logical reasoning and cited sources, otherwise the advantages of these supports will not be valid. The reasoning must not have filler, it needs support that has an advantage over the opposing lead.

Showing Multiple Perspectives

If your argument has only support from your own self, then obviously, no one will agree with you. It needs to have thoughts from someone who is closer to the crowd, someone who can help you reach your voice out. Also remember to cite other people quotes and speeches if your text includes them. Don't quote not as important stuff, because this applies as "filler".

Logical Reasoning

Do insert filler into your debate to make the article seem longer, it does not defy as reason for validation. If you are going to convince someone, you have to have evidence to back up your statement logically. This may or may not apply under the circumstances of religion, as for religion may be offended by certain types of logic.

Citing Resources

If your sources are said to be correct, and your information does not have the same information, your information will be considered bias, and is not exactly valid. Cite address links to each piece of info, this will allow instant proof of your information. Make sure that your information has a variety of sources, or else it just the opinions of a single source being transferred to another.

In Conclusion,

If your debate follows these guidelines, then there is no margin for error, and your argument is automatically valid. These guidelines do not apply for prior arguments, they are just setting a bar for you to reach in the future. Maybe if someone pinned this, you could always refer back to this when you are lost in making a topic yourself.

[Flippant Sol]

Wait a second here.....you now want to try and blame me for the fact that you went off on THFE's Conversion game type without playing it?  I never once said, inferred, implied, insinuated or eluded to anything about Conversion being the answer to every problem in gaming. I am sorry you have not received feedback on your maps, but attacking THFE, then our news group and then me is not where blame lays for your original post. I am proud of Psycho Duck and Flyingshoe ILR for their hard work and dedication to this new game type.

I was exaggerating, I'm a comical person, and I wrote that old article for the sole purpose of getting my Shoutbox rights back, another thing that is unfortunately gonna take some time to get fixed. What I meant to say is that you said it in away that triggered my brain to a purposed existence of interest that is beyond any narcotic known to science. Or I could just say it suckered me in to thinking that is was a solution to something. Also, when did this idea of me being hostile to 343i.org and 343I and THFE's dedication become existent? When I started this topic? I though I already clarified my apologies, but I guess not. Oh Well, this topic is destined to change subject. And so it is official, I, Mecha Death Rhino, apologize for any individual or  group that was offended by this  topic. I will continue to feed this topic, but I am going to (or someone with the power to) rename it "I'm Sorry *facepalm*".

[Absolute Dog]

I do not think there is any reason for this thread to stay open for further debate. There has been a "Best Answer" accepted by the OP. I believe the community should take the time to look into DeathRhino's file share or posted maps in this forum and download and review them. I also believe this thread also clearly shows that THFE themselves can take negative criticism and respond to it in a positive and mature manner.

 

To you, DeathRhino.........I think everyone involved in this thread and those who have read it all understand what it can be like to have your work go unnoticed. I will, when time permits, download your maps and check them out with some fellow forgers and give you a review of them. Out of respect, I will also take the time now to make a comment on each submission and bump them forward making it easy for the community to see them. No hard feelings.