Dual Wielding

[Ranger Intel]

I like how dual-wield SMG's looked though. True, a SAW may be better and I agree, but i loved Halo 2's front cover.

 

[A6ENT of CHA0S]

I like how dual-wield SMG's looked though. True, a SAW may be better and I agree, but i loved Halo 2's front cover.

It may be an awesome cover, just as the Halo Legends CGI episode "The Package" had some epic moments with dual-wielding, but that doesn't make the mechanic good for actual gameplay. I wouldn't mind being able to pick up a set of SMGs (as a singular weapon) in place of a SAW, given that they could both be used by the same trigger and still allow grenades and melee. Its a possible way to allow a bit of that nostalgic feeling without sacrificing gameplay.

 

However, for those that genuinely feel that dual-wielding is a fantastic mechanic that does nothing but add to the game (which I must disagree with), I know that this wouldn't be a good solution in their eyes. They want the option of what weapons are in their hands, to allow for more combinations (the significance of these varying combos is something that I question).

[Ranger Intel]

It may be an awesome cover, just as the Halo Legends CGI episode "The Package" had some epic moments with dual-wielding, but that doesn't make the mechanic good for actual gameplay. I wouldn't mind being able to pick up a set of SMGs (as a singular weapon) in place of a SAW, given that they could both be used by the same trigger and still allow grenades and melee. Its a possible way to allow a bit of that nostalgic feeling without sacrificing gameplay.

 

However, for those that genuinely feel that dual-wielding is a fantastic mechanic that does nothing but add to the game (which I must disagree with), I know that this wouldn't be a good solution in their eyes. They want the option of what weapons are in their hands, to allow for more combinations (the significance of these varying combos is something that I question).

 

I agree. Very thoughtful. The SMG and SAW both look really nice in my opinion but the SAW has a better performance in damage and range. I think it's rate of fire may also be faster. If you want to be really overpowered, try out dual-wield SAWs.

[A6ENT of CHA0S]

Also, while it still isn't pertinent to actual gameplay mechanics, I find that the Halo 4 cover was pretty cool, myself.

 

 

[SilentGamer64]

The difference being that it takes different player input to be effective with the BR than it does the Carbine. With the BR, I can only fire every so often, whereas I can fire about as quickly as I can pull the trigger when using a Carbine. That means that when using the BR, I have considerably more time to adjust my aim for the next burst, while I have to maintain more constant aim on my target with the Carbine to have the same level of effectiveness. Its a significant trade-off between damage-per-shot and rate-of-fire, compared to the comparatively minuscule differences between the SMG, PR, and Spiker in these two factors. Whether I'm using the SMG, Plasma Rifle, or Spiker, I basically just have to hold down the trigger and keep aim on target.

 

Nonetheless there is a significant enough difference between the DW weapons that affects how you use them. An SMG is almost hitscan, while a PR is projectile and requires shots to be led more so than the SMG. And the spiker has projectile drop, which requires the user to aim higher in certain situations.

 

So... you find a power weapon that can disrupt two starting weapons' niches (AR & BR) simultaneously to be more acceptable than an automatic that could challenge the BR, but only stand a chance against an AR at mid-range? Interesting.

 

It was sarcasm. Also, you're suggesting the SSMG as a weapon we can SPAWN with. The SAW is supposed to be a power weapon ON THE MAP.

 

A 5sk dual-wieldable Magnum with CE's RoF would mean that dual-wielding it would allow faster kills than with the CE Magnum (since you can inflict more damage in the same time frame and it allows for more forgiveness when missing shots). Attempting to balance this with bloom and the lack of a smart-link scope would mean yet another weapon to trump the AR at close-extreme close range. Notice that with all of the DW weapons, close-quarters engagements become more basic because a standard weapon can't compete with them and using these weapons means all you will be doing is shooting. Considering that melee is only possible at extreme close range, it really is a damaging mechanic to the overall variety of combat.

 

Then make it a 6sk so there's no room for error. Reducing the pistol's ROF, removing the scope, and increasing its spread through increased reticule size/bloom would make it quite balanced with the AR, while keeping both it and the AR viable on their own.

 

And again you assume that everyone would be duel wielding, and that the art of meleeing will "die out". This whole time you have been using duel wielding as examples for how it discourages melee, and yet you never take into consideration the various AR/SR vs. AR/SR battles, where melee would still be very much alive and well.

 

DW isnt the only thing that discourages melee. AA's like armor lock, hardlight shield, and jetpack all discourage the use of melee, due to the enemy being invulnerable or unreachable. What about vehicles? Would you try to melee a charging ghost? I wouldnt. And weapons with scopes, or a 1hk discourage melee as well, because why should I get within melee distance when I can take them out from further ranges, or just by pulling the trigger? There are plenty of other items in the sandbox that discourage meleeing, so saying DW will be solely responsible for discouraging melee is far from the truth. In fact, looking at my stats, I've had far more melees in Halo 3's MM than I did in Reach and 4, where duel wielding was absent. Go figure.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Guardian is an asymmetrical map... It doesn't really have the most defined "bases", so I don't see how that's a good example of what you seem to be trying to say here.

 

True, but in terms of where the weapons are placed compared to where players spawn, the map was laid out in an asymmetrically balanced way. One team is closer to the shotgun, the other team is closer to the hammer. One team gets camo, the other gets overshield, etc.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               I'm aware of the fact that DW weapons are often placed together, hence my questioning of why to include Dual-Wielding if all it offers is either a "Power Weapon" combination like a single N00B Combo placed separately (which isn't very realistic, as the Magnum isn't the only precision weapon; if one player has the PP, then he/she can still utilize the combo, while the Magnum-wielder cannot)... or two DW weapons acting as a single Power Weapon, all while disabling grenades and melee?

 

Utilizing the noob combo with a standard rifle is quite effective, but having the magnum at the ready with the PP is faster. For other combos, you gain two weapons that can kill more efficiently than one, at the cost of grenades and melee.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Your interpretation of what I said could be done is quite different from what I actually said. I said that a (non-DW) Boltshot could single-handedly fulfill the role of the N00B Combo while making it a more skillful tactic, due to a lack of the Plasma Pistol's tracking (increase range of charged shot, but reduce damage), a lack of the Magnum's zoom function (as well as having a smaller reticule), and a delay before being able to subsequently single-fire (cleaning up with a headshot). It becomes more viable than using a BR and PP (being faster to execute and only taking up one weapon slot), but still allows players to use grenades and melee.

 

 

Given its slow recharge time, people would be better off meleeing the enemy after firing the charge shot than waiting for the overheat to subside in order to fire its semi-auto mode. Its role would essentially be the same as the mauler in your proposed form, with the exception of it not being a DW weapon.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               As for dual-wielding SMGs, aren't we better off just having a more balanced SAW?

 

 

If you want the AR to get roflstomped, sure. But since you obviously dont, duel SMG's will at least give the AR a chance at mid range. Whereas if you try to use the AR against the SAW in any range, you end up choking on bullets.

 

There's nothing unique about the SAW compared to duel SMG's either. The SAW is essentially a better AR with no tradeoffs or weaknesses against its "little brother".

[A6ENT of CHA0S]

 

Nonetheless there is a significant enough difference between the DW weapons that affects how you use them. An SMG is almost hitscan, while a PR is projectile and requires shots to be led more so than the SMG. And the spiker has projectile drop, which requires the user to aim higher in certain situations.

If the differences require players to use altered methods to achieve each weapon's most effective usage, then how can players use a combination of two mix-matched DW automatics with success? If you're going with something along the lines of "PR to break shields, then finish off with SMG," then why should you be able to do so without needing to swap between the two? If you're going to fire them simultaneously and effectively, then they really aren't so different in operation after all.

 

 

It was sarcasm. Also, you're suggesting the SSMG as a weapon we can SPAWN with. The SAW is supposed to be a power weapon ON THE MAP.

Actually, I wasn't suggesting the choice to spawn with the SSMG (although I have thought about it in the past).

 

 

Then make it a 6sk so there's no room for error. Reducing the pistol's ROF, removing the scope, and increasing its spread through increased reticule size/bloom would make it quite balanced with the AR, while keeping both it and the AR viable on their own.

If its a 6sk, then it is less effective than what you made it out to be earlier. Balancing it to be more useful as a 6sk by increasing RoF would then make akimbo Magnums kill faster than the CE Magnum... Where's the balance in that?

 

As for the "discourages melee" debate, understand that I'm saying DW makes melee less prevalent/effective because DW weapons are used optimally at close-to-extreme close range (around the range that melee combat can occur). Things like longer-ranged weapons and the like don't interrupt this because you wouldn't be likely to zoom such a weapon in melee range.

 

 

Utilizing the noob combo with a standard rifle is quite effective, but having the magnum at the ready with the PP is faster. For other combos, you gain two weapons that can kill more efficiently than one, at the cost of grenades and melee.

 My point was that there would be little incentive to go after the Magnum in your proposed layout, since the N00B combo can be executed without it, but not without the Plasma Pistol. As for the other combos, what's wrong with having a single weapon that is better than another single weapon, while keeping melee and grenades?

 

 

Given its slow recharge time, people would be better off meleeing the enemy after firing the charge shot than waiting for the overheat to subside in order to fire its semi-auto mode. Its role would essentially be the same as the mauler in your proposed form, with the exception of it not being a DW weapon.

You assume that I meant the delay should be the same time length as it currently is, which I didn't. I only meant that it should have a delay, while the exact time of such would be determinate on so many other balancing points that I didn't even attempt to give an estimate. Also, the Mauler is only good at extreme close-range, while the Boltshot's projectiles can reach a more reasonable distance.

 

 

If you want the AR to get roflstomped, sure. But since you obviously dont, duel SMG's will at least give the AR a chance at mid range. Whereas if you try to use the AR against the SAW in any range, you end up choking on bullets.

 

There's nothing unique about the SAW compared to duel SMG's either. The SAW is essentially a better AR with no tradeoffs or weaknesses against its "little brother".

Again, you assume a weapon's current iteration is how it will be in the next. Keep in mind that I did say "a more balanced SAW", by which I meant more spread and/or recoil to compensate for its high damage output.

[Akali]

i would really like duel wielding in halo 5 since it was really fun in halo 3 with pistols or smgs and just getting kills by the smgs and i think if there was new 1 handed weapons like maybe a forerunner smg it will be amazing

[ShockGazm]

Duel Wielding needs to come back! The one weapon I meanly want to duel Wield with, and that's the Halo 2 pistol. I just loved them! I have an idea for a new type of duel wielding. In your left hand you have a devise that allows you to evade in the air, not so much the dive but take off in a vertical direction quickly. And in the right hand, your weapon of course, that being your sidearm. Just throwing out ideas but who knows it could work and be fun to use.

I agree. Very thoughtful. The SMG and SAW both look really nice in my opinion but the SAW has a better performance in damage and range. I think it's rate of fire may also be faster. If you want to be really overpowered, try out dual-wield SAWs.

 

If you could Duel Wield SAWs it would remind me of that scene in Rambo when John Rambo has the 50 Cal. Machine Gun and is just mowing down everything in site, haha.

 

[Ranger Intel]

Duel Wielding needs to come back! The one weapon I meanly want to duel Wield with, and that's the Halo 2 pistol. I just loved them! I have an idea for a new type of duel wielding. In your left hand you have a devise that allows you to evade in the air, not so much the dive but take off in a vertical direction quickly. And in the right hand, your weapon of course, that being your sidearm. Just throwing out ideas but who knows it could work and be fun to use.

 

If you could Duel Wield SAWs it would remind me of that scene in Rambo when John Rambo has the 50 Cal. Machine Gun and is just mowing down everything in site, haha.

 

 

Lol! XD That would be something to see in Halo Xbox One. Master Chief with Dual-Wield SAWs, might as well be in heaven.

Edited December 18, 2013 by UNSC Spartan-II

[Jack Of Harts]

I LOVE Duel-wielding but it did get overpowered at times in Halo 3. Duel SMGs were extremely overpowered, I think duel-wield weapons should be less accurate to balance it a little

[Buns]

I don't want this because designing weapons (3D models, audio, animations, balancing, etc) takes up time and resources that could be used to improve or introduce features that would appear in more than just Custom Games. For me, its too much work for very little benefit (and likely with problems).

Actually after you design the model for one gun it should only take a days worth of work to implement the model and animate it for the opposite side. The only problem would be programming it into the game which I agree the resources can be put to use elsewhere but it would be nice if dual wielding made a return but it isn't required. I am very meh about this subject since I liked dual wielding but its one of those things that I can live without.

 

I just need firefight back then I'm happy.  

[Ranger Intel]

Actually after you design the model for one gun it should only take a days worth of work to implement the model and animate it for the opposite side. The only problem would be programming it into the game which I agree the resources can be put to use elsewhere but it would be nice if dual wielding made a return but it isn't required. I am very meh about this subject since I liked dual wielding but its one of those things that I can live without.

 

I just need firefight back then I'm happy.  

 

True, dual wielding shouldn't be a problem for 343. They just avoid it because it will be easier to balance the game without it. I'd also like firefight back...and collectible skulls.