UNSC vs Modern Military

[Solumn Trade]

We gotta remember that before the Covenant War, there was a human civil war, but before even that there was a time of peace. During that time, most weapons of war were decommissioned. This means humans became out of practice in the art of killing each other. The civil war that started before the Covenant showed up literally saved humanity from extinction, because if it hadn't of happened there would have been practically no weapons to fight the Covenant with. This is why the UNSC still used ballistic weapons, because for awhile no innovation was being done with weapons technology. Also, the Covenant were a bit lazy in terms of weapons development as well because they simply copied Forerunner designs, and really there was no one they encountered that could challenge what they had.

 

Let's consider how the Russians in WWII fended off the Nazi forces. They didn't have the best equipment, but they made simple weapon and tank designs that needed little maintenance and could be mass-produced very quickly. The infantry weapons they churned out the most were sub-machine guns like the PPD-40, and the tank that fended off the Nazi super tanks was the T-34 tank, which literally rolled out of factories and straight onto the battlefield. While it was not the best tank in existence in terms of firepower and armor at the time, the shear numbers and balance between speed and firepower that it possessed turned the tide on the Nazi armor, which at that time was thought to be near impossible. In other words, the Russians beat the Nazis by out-producing their forces rather than out-performing them.

 

I think this is a similar tactic the UNSC employed against the Covenant. They didn't make the best weapons they could, they simply made as many as they could. The Assault Rifle is a piece of junk, but unlike a better performing weapon can be cheaply mass-produced very quickly and be placed in the hands of jar heads as soon as possible, and the same pretty much goes with everything else such as Warthogs and Scorpions. This is probably why most modern weapons are typically better than the ones in Halo.

 

That said, modern military armament these days may be better in terms of performance, but stuff like M1 Abram tanks are far harder to replace and produce. So the UNSC would win, not because they necessarily had better weapons, but because they could afford to lose more than the military forces of today. And Spartans would be very happy to get an upgrade off a poor enemy soldier.

 

Also, this is a reason why 343 doesn't need to 'buff' things so they compete with modern weapons.

[Ranger Intel]

We gotta remember that before the Covenant War, there was a human civil war, but before even that there was a time of peace. During that time, most weapons of war were decommissioned. This means humans became out of practice in the art of killing each other. The civil war that started before the Covenant showed up literally saved humanity from extinction, because if it hadn't of happened there would have been practically no weapons to fight the Covenant with. This is why the UNSC still used ballistic weapons, because for awhile no innovation was being done with weapons technology. Also, the Covenant were a bit lazy in terms of weapons development as well because they simply copied Forerunner designs, and really there was no one they encountered that could challenge what they had.

 

Let's consider how the Russians in WWII fended off the Nazi forces. They didn't have the best equipment, but they made simple weapon and tank designs that needed little maintenance and could be mass-produced very quickly. The infantry weapons they churned out the most were sub-machine guns like the PPD-40, and the tank that fended off the Nazi super tanks was the T-34 tank, which literally rolled out of factories and straight onto the battlefield. While it was not the best tank in existence in terms of firepower and armor at the time, the shear numbers and balance between speed and firepower that it possessed turned the tide on the Nazi armor, which at that time was thought to be near impossible. In other words, the Russians beat the Nazis by out-producing their forces rather than out-performing them.

 

I think this is a similar tactic the UNSC employed against the Covenant. They didn't make the best weapons they could, they simply made as many as they could. The Assault Rifle is a piece of junk, but unlike a better performing weapon can be cheaply mass-produced very quickly and be placed in the hands of jar heads as soon as possible, and the same pretty much goes with everything else such as Warthogs and Scorpions. This is probably why most modern weapons are typically better than the ones in Halo.

 

That said, modern military armament these days may be better in terms of performance, but stuff like M1 Abram tanks are far harder to replace and produce. So the UNSC would win, not because they necessarily had better weapons, but because they could afford to lose more than the military forces of today. And Spartans would be very happy to get an upgrade off a poor enemy soldier.

 

Also, this is a reason why 343 doesn't need to 'buff' things so they compete with modern weapons.

 

This is a very good point which I didn't even think about. It makes much more sense when you put it that way. You also prove that there is no reason for 343 to make them "futuristic" because they didn't work on their weapons enough during the time of peace. Great post.

[Composite Armour]

Does UNSC even artillery?

[Silent Orbis]

UNSC = Future = Similar, if not better.

[Caboose The Ace]

Come on the UNSC would

 

 

Call in a mac blast

 

then sent Spartans into finish the job ....

 

In the Halo book contact harvest a guy attacks Johnson with a 20th century SMG and the bullets just ping off his armour.

[Pbrabbit]

You provide interesting details and it makes me wonder. I honestly would have to say that UNSC would dominate the Modern military today.

[Akali]

i would say the UNSC would destroy anything we have because of the technology they have compared to ours because the UNSC has shields, warthogs that have a gauss cannon and missle turret, Spartans and the fact that the weapons have been affected with the new technology

[Dawn]

It would be an all out war. But in the end, the UNSC would win... I mean we had over 500+ years to work on, and improve our combat, and weaponry. Modern day Military vs UNSC would be like the Native American tribes battling 21st century army.

 

With the use of Nukes, we could put up a great fight, but at what cost?

[AnimeAddict]

like i stated before without question the UNSC would win 

 

nukes are only useful if your target is on the planet with a Mac Cannon they dont need to be the UNSC has orbital bombardment

as well as Spartans 

 

and you also have to take into account the fact that the Elites might have shared plasma technology with the UNSC  and they would probabbly have prototypes at the very least if not the full weapon

[Solumn Trade]

Yup, this is one thing i've always thought of in halo. Do you really think that we would still be reloading weapons, or even using guns? It seems by the year 2550, we'll be shooting lasers out of the fingertips of the suit.

Not if ammunition manufacturers have anything to say about it. XD

 

It's all about the money. We already have laser guns, they're just expensive too produce and the power requirements necessary don't make it an economical possibility. Not to mention the ammunition company lobbyists would put a stop to any thought of killing things without bullets.

 

Also, consider what the hopes and dreams were of people in the past. Around the 1920's, everyone thought we would have flying cars and cities on the moon by now. Perhaps you may have too high of hopes. BTW, why didn't Diadact use finger-tip lasers? it would have been way cooler than ripping off The Force. "Ripoffs they are, 343. Angry Yoda is. Wanted to play an actual Halo game, I did." XD

This is a very good point which I didn't even think about. It makes much more sense when you put it that way. You also prove that there is no reason for 343 to make them "futuristic" because they didn't work on their weapons enough during the time of peace. Great post.

BTW, I had another thought. Even though you said that space stuff is not allowed, then how would the UNSC troops be transported around? Pelicans are capable of space flight. Even they don't have to fight in space, think about the advantage there is to transporting troops through space and high orbit. The UNSC can drop troops anywhere at anytime and do it faster. Sure the UN has the ability to transport large amounts of supplies and troops to anywhere in the world, but it takes months via sea voyage. And only so much can be taken by plane. Even if everything could be transported by chopper and plane, it would never even come close to the efficiency of Pelicans, which can pick nearly any battle equipment up, go into orbit and reach anyplace on Earth within a maximum of a few hours.

 

Additionally, can any nation on Earth claim that they can insert a special ops team anyplace on the planet in a matter of moments? ODSTs and Spartans could be orbital dropped in to surround the White House (or any capital), and there would be no stopping it.

 

Even if national leaders could be sent to safe underground bunkers in time, there is no where where the UNSC couldn't strike. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the UN. A UNSC commander sitting in a command chair in space is practically untouchable, even without access to MACs and other super weapons.

 

Also, there's a huge area on Earth that is completely undefended, and could serve as a massive staging area: Antarctica. The UNSC already has experience in operating in arctic climates on other worlds, and their vehicles are actually suited for such climates (as well as pretty much any other climate), whereas I do not know how well hummvees and conventional tanks work in that sort of environment (four tank treads is better than two. The Warthog's tires, suspension, and duel steering are also far superior to conventional light vehicles.)

 

I think too much focus is being put on firepower, speed, and armor, and not enough on the logistics. The UNSC is the fictitious king of logistics, and that's why they were able to put up such a fight against the Covenant.

 

In other words, sure an Abram may be stronger than a Scorpion. But does that matter if the Abrams end up surrounded, because Pelicans dropped Scorpions all around them? Then picked them back up, and then surrounded the next unlucky tank battalion?

[AnimeAddict]

Yup, this is one thing i've always thought of in halo. Do you really think that we would still be reloading weapons, or even using guns? It seems by the year 2550, we'll be shooting lasers out of the fingertips of the suit.

lol thats just some science fiction right there lmao itd be kind of impractical

[Mothy]

UNSC would completely dominate. Nuff said

[Sιlεƞτ Aʟρнα]

Wasn't there a second type of UNSC tank in halo wars?

[Ranger Intel]

Not if ammunition manufacturers have anything to say about it. XD

 

It's all about the money. We already have laser guns, they're just expensive too produce and the power requirements necessary don't make it an economical possibility. Not to mention the ammunition company lobbyists would put a stop to any thought of killing things without bullets.

 

Also, consider what the hopes and dreams were of people in the past. Around the 1920's, everyone thought we would have flying cars and cities on the moon by now. Perhaps you may have too high of hopes. BTW, why didn't Diadact use finger-tip lasers? it would have been way cooler than ripping off The Force. "Ripoffs they are, 343. Angry Yoda is. Wanted to play an actual Halo game, I did." XD

BTW, I had another thought. Even though you said that space stuff is not allowed, then how would the UNSC troops be transported around? Pelicans are capable of space flight. Even they don't have to fight in space, think about the advantage there is to transporting troops through space and high orbit. The UNSC can drop troops anywhere at anytime and do it faster. Sure the UN has the ability to transport large amounts of supplies and troops to anywhere in the world, but it takes months via sea voyage. And only so much can be taken by plane. Even if everything could be transported by chopper and plane, it would never even come close to the efficiency of Pelicans, which can pick nearly any battle equipment up, go into orbit and reach anyplace on Earth within a maximum of a few hours.

 

Additionally, can any nation on Earth claim that they can insert a special ops team anyplace on the planet in a matter of moments? ODSTs and Spartans could be orbital dropped in to surround the White House (or any capital), and there would be no stopping it.

 

Even if national leaders could be sent to safe underground bunkers in time, there is no where where the UNSC couldn't strike. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the UN. A UNSC commander sitting in a command chair in space is practically untouchable, even without access to MACs and other super weapons.

 

Also, there's a huge area on Earth that is completely undefended, and could serve as a massive staging area: Antarctica. The UNSC already has experience in operating in arctic climates on other worlds, and their vehicles are actually suited for such climates (as well as pretty much any other climate), whereas I do not know how well hummvees and conventional tanks work in that sort of environment (four tank treads is better than two. The Warthog's tires, suspension, and duel steering are also far superior to conventional light vehicles.)

 

I think too much focus is being put on firepower, speed, and armor, and not enough on the logistics. The UNSC is the fictitious king of logistics, and that's why they were able to put up such a fight against the Covenant.

 

In other words, sure an Abram may be stronger than a Scorpion. But does that matter if the Abrams end up surrounded, because Pelicans dropped Scorpions all around them? Then picked them back up, and then surrounded the next unlucky tank battalion?

 

I like how you think. I see what you mean by the Pelican being the most efficient. It's mainly because in Halo, the UNSC have enough energy and resources to build and power these things. Probably because they have discovered other planets rich with these resources and have developed more advanced and efficient technology.

 

Wasn't there a second type of UNSC tank in halo wars?

 

Yes, the Grizzly. There is also the Rhino.

[Solumn Trade]

I like how you think. I see what you mean by the Pelican being the most efficient. It's mainly because in Halo, the UNSC have enough energy and resources to build and power these things. Probably because they have discovered other planets rich with these resources and have developed more advanced and efficient technology.

 

 

Yes, the Grizzly. There is also the Rhino.

I think the power source is hydrogen, mostly. And what is hydrogen made of? Water. So the UNSC runs off hydrogen, and the modern military runs off...diesel and jet fuel. And what is diesel and jet fuel made of? Oil. Oil is a lot harder to get than water is. If the UNSC targets the oil fields around the world, it's pretty much in the bag no contest. Again, it's not who has the biggest guns. It's how they use them. I have a feeling that Scorpions and Hogs are not as heavily armored purely for the fact that they are needed to be easy to transport and produce more than anything. And it also has better fuel economy.

Perhaps a new thread could be started, simply because I'm sure the UNSC would win, not because of firepower or armor, but due to logistic efficiency. Could we try something more interesting...perhaps The Galactic Empire (Star Wars) vs. The Covenant (Halo)? Scenario: The Galactic Empire finds duel Forerunner structures in a wide icy canyon, facing each other. A research installation is built between them, in order to find out new technologies the Empire could exploit. The Covenant, however, doesn't like this one bit, as they themselves want the same. At the start, a small spec ops group of Elites manages to clear out one of the Forerunner structures, and destroys the research installation. However, Storm Troopers from the 501st manage to hold onto the other Forerunner structure, and manages to send out a distress call. A Star Destroyer with some frigates responds, and finds a group of Covenant Corvettes along with a capital ship. The battle begins.

 

Rules:

 

-super weapons cannot come into play on the battlefield. Both factions are not interested in damaging the Forerunner structures or any other secrets the planet may hide.

 

-Additional fleets will not be deployed. No one is close enough to help turn the tide in the favor of either side.

 

-Assume that the Covenant have a 1 to 1 ratio of Scarabs to Imperial AT-AT's.

[Surveillance]

I think the power source is hydrogen, mostly. And what is hydrogen made of? Water. So the UNSC runs off hydrogen, and the modern military runs off...diesel and jet fuel. And what is diesel and jet fuel made of? Oil. Oil is a lot harder to get than water is. If the UNSC targets the oil fields around the world, it's pretty much in the bag no contest. Again, it's not who has the biggest guns. It's how they use them. I have a feeling that Scorpions and Hogs are not as heavily armored purely for the fact that they are needed to be easy to transport and produce more than anything. And it also has better fuel economy.

 

Hydrogen may be the source of fuel for Fusion Reactors, but it isn't just water. You can't just get two glasses of water and slam them into eachother to get a fusion reaction.

 

You need basically a metal container that is filled with electromagnets and you need to heat deuterium(A stable isotope of hydrogen with one extra neutron which one atom by the way has an abundance of 1:6240 among regular hydrogen atoms, and so isolating will be extremely difficult) to over 12 million degrees Kelvin, which is essentially the temperature inside a the natural fusion reactor in the core of a star. Then, once the deuterium is heated, the atoms with eventially overcome the natural barrier which keeps protons from smashing into eachother which is known as the Coulomb force. Once this happens, Hydrogen Atoms smash into eachother and the Fundamental Weak Force changes the quarks inside the protons so they become neutrons and entirely different atoms, like Helium. The Weak Force prevents the fusion reaction from grinding to halt and releases neutrinos, so the chain can continue. Finally, we have the massive amount of energy released by the reaction when it fuses, and then that is where we get the power for all of the UNSC's warships and stuff.

 

This is all entirely expensive and difficult, because Deuterium is rare, and one mistake in the reaction makes an explosion at least 10 times the power of all the conventional explosives used in World War 2 or 1500 times the combined power of the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki all concentrated in one area.

 

So you see the problems with fusion.

 

BUT I DO UNDERSTAND that Halo is a game and it is designed to be fun and not have its science questioned. I just came in to solidify your point, Solumn Trade.

 

(Also, if you don't understand the Particle Physics jargon that I just posted, please feel free to tell me and I will simplify it.

[Ranger Intel]

I think the power source is hydrogen, mostly. And what is hydrogen made of? Water. So the UNSC runs off hydrogen, and the modern military runs off...diesel and jet fuel. And what is diesel and jet fuel made of? Oil. Oil is a lot harder to get than water is. If the UNSC targets the oil fields around the world, it's pretty much in the bag no contest. Again, it's not who has the biggest guns. It's how they use them. I have a feeling that Scorpions and Hogs are not as heavily armored purely for the fact that they are needed to be easy to transport and produce more than anything. And it also has better fuel economy.

Perhaps a new thread could be started, simply because I'm sure the UNSC would win, not because of firepower or armor, but due to logistic efficiency. Could we try something more interesting...perhaps The Galactic Empire (Star Wars) vs. The Covenant (Halo)? Scenario: The Galactic Empire finds duel Forerunner structures in a wide icy canyon, facing each other. A research installation is built between them, in order to find out new technologies the Empire could exploit. The Covenant, however, doesn't like this one bit, as they themselves want the same. At the start, a small spec ops group of Elites manages to clear out one of the Forerunner structures, and destroys the research installation. However, Storm Troopers from the 501st manage to hold onto the other Forerunner structure, and manages to send out a distress call. A Star Destroyer with some frigates responds, and finds a group of Covenant Corvettes along with a capital ship. The battle begins.

 

Rules:

 

-super weapons cannot come into play on the battlefield. Both factions are not interested in damaging the Forerunner structures or any other secrets the planet may hide.

 

-Additional fleets will not be deployed. No one is close enough to help turn the tide in the favor of either side.

 

-Assume that the Covenant have a 1 to 1 ratio of Scarabs to Imperial AT-AT's.

 

 

Hydrogen may be the source of fuel for Fusion Reactors, but it isn't just water. You can't just get two glasses of water and slam them into eachother to get a fusion reaction.

 

You need basically a metal container that is filled with electromagnets and you need to heat deuterium(A stable isotope of hydrogen with one extra neutron which one atom by the way has an abundance of 1:6240 among regular hydrogen atoms, and so isolating will be extremely difficult) to over 12 million degrees Kelvin, which is essentially the temperature inside a the natural fusion reactor in the core of a star. Then, once the deuterium is heated, the atoms with eventially overcome the natural barrier which keeps protons from smashing into eachother which is known as the Coulomb force. Once this happens, Hydrogen Atoms smash into eachother and the Fundamental Weak Force changes the quarks inside the protons so they become neutrons and entirely different atoms, like Helium. The Weak Force prevents the fusion reaction from grinding to halt and releases neutrinos, so the chain can continue. Finally, we have the massive amount of energy released by the reaction when it fuses, and then that is where we get the power for all of the UNSC's warships and stuff.

 

This is all entirely expensive and difficult, because Deuterium is rare, and one mistake in the reaction makes an explosion at least 10 times the power of all the conventional explosives used in World War 2 or 1500 times the combined power of the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki all concentrated in one area.

 

So you see the problems with fusion.

 

BUT I DO UNDERSTAND that Halo is a game and it is designed to be fun and not have its science questioned. I just came in to solidify your point, Solumn Trade.

 

(Also, if you don't understand the Particle Physics jargon that I just posted, please feel free to tell me and I will simplify it.

 

You two are really clever. I never even knew half the stuff you both discussed.

 

I guess Hydrogen is far more common than Diesel (Oil) but can it be produced at a cheaper cost, faster, and easier than Diesel? Is it even possible to power a reactor with only Hydrogen?

 

I think that Halo was so well thought out that it can actually be questioned on Science and even be able to fight back. I learnt a lot of things from Halo and it relates to Modern Day things in so many ways, NATO for example. They also use a lot of real Scientific things, well it is Sci-Fi.

[Composite Armour]

Hmmm, a thread about UNSC vs (Your favourite human sci-fi faction) would be interesting.

[The Director]

Okay... I have seen this debate before, and I think one thing should be pointed out.

 

The UNSC is the United States and almost every other country on the planet Earth combined with the addition of other WORLDS. So they have more than enough troops to occupy every square foot of the United States.

 

They are us a few hundred years into the future plus some friends. More friends than the United States would be able to call upon if we were in trouble. Tell me something, if you were to fight yourself from 10 years ago, who would win? Don't know about you, but 24 year old me could kick 14 year old me's anus.

 

Not to mention that all of the UNSC weaponry is our weapons, but more advanced. Even more so with the addition of Covenant/Forerunner tech into the UNSC's arsenal. It wouldn't even be a contest, our modern military would be ripped to shreds like a piece of paper through a woodchipper.

 

You might as well ask who would win between the modern military and their counterparts of 300 years ago. .-.

[AnimeAddict]

Okay... I have seen this debate before, and I think one thing should be pointed out.

 

The UNSC is the United States and almost every other country on the planet Earth combined with the addition of other WORLDS. So they have more than enough troops to occupy every square foot of the United States.

 

They are us a few hundred years into the future plus some friends. More friends than the United States would be able to call upon if we were in trouble. Tell me something, if you were to fight yourself from 10 years ago, who would win? Don't know about you, but 24 year old me could kick 14 year old me's anus.

 

Not to mention that all of the UNSC weaponry is our weapons, but more advanced. Even more so with the addition of Covenant/Forerunner tech into the UNSC's arsenal. It wouldn't even be a contest, our modern military would be ripped to shreds like a piece of paper through a woodchipper.

 

You might as well ask who would win between the modern military and their counterparts of 300 years ago. .-.

haha to be frank i think it would be more like who wouolld win  the wolf or the sheep