Grenades Shield and Health

[gollum385]

A system which has changed in every halo game. Halo ce had very strange trajectory of grenades, and a very long plasma grenade detonation (it also made it so all grenades in an area detonated after an explosion). The shield system had health, which only regenerated with a health pack.

 

Halo 2 and 3 had similar shield systems, with no health. The grenades in halo 2 were weaker (you could have 4 of each), and in halo 3 (even though there were spikers) you could only have 4.

 

Halo reach brought the return of health, although it returned to the neraest third upon shield recharges, health packs and very powerful grenades. The elites had recharging health. The shield was unique in reach in that only when shields were popped could damage to your health be done. Also it should be noted when shields were up, damage to the head wasn't more than the body unlike previous halo games.

 

I would like to know which systems they preffered from each game, and what they would like to see in halo 4. Other ideas for these systems are also welcome, and views on my version below also would be appreciated.

 

For grenades, they were definately too powerful in reach. I don't mind about trajectory, but for me the halo 3 grenades were awesome. A well placed grenade would take down the shields (and just the shields) of an enemy, rather than reach, where having half shields and full health would still kill you. Grenades were also in alot more supply than reach, meaning they were more a fundamental part of gameplay, which should be the case seeing as they are part of the combat triangle. I like the idea of having 3/4 of each grenade type though, or/and a return of the spike grenade (with some tweaks) or another new and interesting grenade (probably not flame grenades though), even if these are limited in terms of use (i imagine a spike grenade that you could hold to determine detonation time, and i liked the fact it is good at doing damage to vehicles and can stick to enemies/walls and the floor) note if there are more grenade types on a map may need to limit total number to be 2. Note i do like the idea of explosions having a decreasing damage radius, the grenades doing damage when you hit an opponent, and being able to shoot grenades thrown or on the floor (maybe not allow explosions to trigger all grenades in an area though).

 

For the health system. I disliked the halo reach model. It was reasonable for some gametypes, and maybe if it could be customised i could accept it, but for things like swat it spoiled it in my opinion. However I like the idea from reach/ce that health is visible, unlike 2 and 3, and that people should be a bit weaker if they survive a battle. I therefore propose that the health system should work like elites in reach. Once shileds are down you start losing health, but once your shields recharge, so does your health. It would take longer than halo 3, so you will be disadvantaged, but after say 30 seconds all health will be recovered. Possibly health packs could return to help with this. This would mean at first you are disadvantaged, but overall you are not punished for surviving for a long time, unlike swat in reach.

 

The shield system. I personally dislike the shield system in reach. I particularly dislike the headshots being worth the same damage as body shots, as the skill and risk of trying to get headshots should reap a larger reward. I think that the shield system should work kind of like both reach and halo 3. When your shields pop (say if you had 10 points of shield left, and did 30 points of damage), only half the remaining points of damage should transfer to the shields (so rather than 20 points of damage to health like halo 3, or 0 like reach, it would be 10). This would mean that beating down would require precise timing to ensure the kill, but if you were half a second out you wouldnt be completely punished, as some of the oppponents health would suffer.

 

Also I do like the idea of fall damage, and being stunned, but maybe as master chief is stronger, maybe not as significant.

 

Again would love to hear people's views on this, as it is an area of halo that has changed significantly, and i feel will again.

[Baykem]

I like the h2/h3 system.

[gollum385]

Thanks baykem for your post. Would you like to ellaborate on what you liked about those 2 systems over the other systems? Which parts of each do you like most?

[gollum385]

Would people like to see the return of spike/flame grenades?

 

Are there other grenades people would like to see?

 

Obviously if there are 6 types of grenade, that would be annoying for matchmaking. But if yo were limited to 2/3 types of grenade in one map i think it would be interesting to have some strange grenades, especially for special playlists and firefight/campaign.

[gollum385]

Would people like to comment on which health/shield system they preferred, and whether they like my idea of slowly recharging health, and damage absorbing shields (but not fully absoring like halo reach)

[Spectral Jester]

With regards to the grenades they are so overpowered its scary, people wonder why players spam the grenades.

The Shields / health in all honesty I think I would revert back to halo 3, personally found it more challenging

[BudBudHOOD]

I liked the halo reach health system. You always knew how much health you had and it was useful in swat. I would like to see the fire bomb grenade or a flame thrower in Halo 4 but i think they should change the spike grenade to a needle grenade. It works in pretty much the same way but fires out pink needler ammo.

[gollum385]

Thanks for the comments. I definately like the idea of a needle shrapnel grenade. I think the spike grenade had a unique characteristic, not just sticking to people, but also walls ceiling floors. I think with a bit of tweaking it could be made better to match the plasma, as you'd definately choose the plasma over it based on halo 3. I agree they are overpowered in reach far 2 much. Halo 3 grenade power was perfect in my view.

 

I also like in halo 3 that once shields pop you still take some of the damage, i can see where they were coming from with reach but it was a bit annoying at times. Maybe with my suggestion of half damage soaked up by shields popping would help make it work best, as it stops people beating down too early, like in halo 3, but does give a small window of opportunity unlike reach, where the shields have to have popped.

 

BudbudHOOD, do you think swat would have been better with recharging health though? I personally like the idea of seeing your health, as even in halo 3 it existed, and agree after a battle it shouldnt recharge as quick as halo 3, but should recharge eventually. Maybe at least the custom options to do so would be good.

[Itz JoshE]

there should be 3 health bars SHIELDS ARMOUR and HEALTH but it wlii not make you overpowered cus armour and health can only be really weak. or make shields and armour the same strength.

[gollum385]

I'm interested in your idea of armour, not heard of that before. Surely if the shields have popped, the covenant weapons would penetrate the armour though (i mean it's plasma), and i'm sure bullets are solid enough to pierce the armour once the shields have gone down?

 

So how would it work? would shields need to pop and then it be 1 shot, or would armour need to break too?

Would maybe if armour breaks it falls off, and unlike shields and health where they return armour wont, meaning that area is vulnerable next time you lose shields (ie it goes straight to health)?

 

Personally i think the shields health system is solid, its just it's implementation that is the key.

[gollum385]

Irelevant of which system is implemented, i think like many other things in the new halo it should be customizeable. Individual grenade types being customizeable, and alot more access to the base systems like shield and health.

[DocSpartanO07]

I just want them to get rid of the both people die at the same time garbage.

[Baykem]

Thanks baykem for your post. Would you like to ellaborate on what you liked about those 2 systems over the other systems? Which parts of each do you like most?

I liked how there was no health, And the grenades were not near as powerful even though a well placed grenade could fully take down the sheilds of an enemy player, but with reach a poorly tossed plasma is still enough to easily take down a player, and if they had low health its almost a guaranteed kill as long as there in the blast radius. (sorry i took so long to respond)

[gollum385]

Thanks for the replies.

 

as for double beatdown txspartan, i think the concept, like many bungie implemented is sound, but the execution is poor. I think with the system that i propose for shields and health etc, the result should be calculated based on the combination of remaining health and shield points. Whoever has the lowest will lose (assuming both people beat down at the same time). The difference should then be taken off the other player (if they have 2 points of health only left, then lucky them. Obviously they have to have a time window to determine if too people beat down at the same time, but there was lag. Whilst i agree they should have this, i believe it is a bit too lenient.

 

No worries baykem. I think although the health wasn't shown, i should clarify that it was present in halo 2 and 3, and did require recharging, although it was very quick once your shield had recharged. Of course in reach it only recharges to the nearest third, so you need health packs etc. I like the idea of seeing your health, but it should definately recharge all the way, although maybe at a slower rate than halo 3. this mans if it was like the above and you only have 2 points of health left, the recharge rate will mean you do maybe have to be cautious in your next fight, if it hasnt recharged fully. Of course you can see this process in action, so having it being shown allows you to calculate appropriately.

[HaloReachLegend]

cool

[Okage4]

The Reach Spartan model is probably the worst out of all the Halo games. Hell, I think Bungie did better with the ODST system than with Reach. The Elites in Reach, on the other hand...man, they got those spot on. I think almost everything about the Elites was perfect except for their size. Give the Spartans the exact same traits as Elites (shield strength, speed, jump height, health recharge, etc.), and I think Reach would have been a much better game.

 

Grenades in Reach are way way way way too over-powered. As mostly everyone else has said, the grenades from Halo 3 were the best. A well-placed rewards with downed shields, while a side-stepped grenade doesn't completely drain your shields (*cough REACH cough*).

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the Spike Grenade. I like the idea of variety, but the Plasma Grenade has almost the exact same functionality as the Spike Grenade. Both of them are sticky, both destroy enemies in tight areas, both are from the Covenant. The Plasma Grenade just does a better job at everything else. If there is a new grenade-type in Halo 4, it needs to have a unique function. Something that the Frag and Plasma Grenades don't do. Perhaps something similar to a proximity mine? That could definitely take the Spike Grenade's role as a vehicle-killer.

[CsDarKnight]

I like Halo 3 better.

[Machinga]

Ok

1. Nerf the plasmas.

2. Lethalize the frags.

3. I dont really care what you do with the other nades.

4. Keep the health system like Reach.

5. Except make headshots more effective.

6. And add the armor thing in.

6.5. It was what i was thinking too.

[gollum385]

I still don't think armour would be very good, although if 2 people think it is a good idea then i'd be interested to see if other people agree?

How would this system work? Obviously shields would recharge, but would armour, or health? The problem with armour is that it would mess up the gameplay, and make it confusing. In halo, once shields have popped, you're one shot. How many shots are you if you have armour? You recharge your health with a medpack in reach/ce, or just naturally in other halo's (better), but how do you recharge armour?

 

I agree i very much disliked the spartan health model in reach. I much preffered the elite model with health which grows back completely. That is why i think a model like halo 3, but with slower recharging and visible health would be better than reach or halo 3.

 

Interesting about your views of the spike grenade okage. I actually have thought about a delayed detonation, controlled by holding the left trigger, kind of like an alternate firing method like the grenade launcher. By holding the trigger, you are stopping yourself throwing new grenades, meaning it wouldnt be overly powerful. Once released, it explodes, maybe after a short time delay, so it cant just be used by campers hiding round a corner too effectively. Maybe the explosion could be slightly weaker than normal too. The way i think the spiker benefits is that it can stick to walls floor roof. How to make it so it also can compete against the plasma is by making it more powerful on vehicle damage, and the benefit above of a delayed explosion and it's ability to be stuck to any surface.

 

Machinga, i completely disagree with your idea to lethalize frags. they are already way to overpowered.

[Okage4]

Ok

1. Nerf the plasmas.

2. Lethalize the frags.

3. I dont really care what you do with the other nades.

4. Keep the health system like Reach.

5. Except make headshots more effective.

6. And add the armor thing in.

6.5. It was what i was thinking too.

 

Nerf plasmas AND lethalize frags? That would make them the exact same as each other except for how one bounces, and the other one's sticky. And I don't understand how headshots are supposed to be more effective. I shot to the head with no shields results in a kill. A shot to the head from the Sniper on a shielded opponent results in a kill, anyway. How are headshots supposed to be more effective?

 

I'm confused by this concept of Armor, along with shields and health. How would that even work at all? No one's bothering to explain this idea...

[Machinga]

Nerf plasmas AND lethalize frags? That would make them the exact same as each other except for how one bounces, and the other one's sticky. And I don't understand how headshots are supposed to be more effective. I shot to the head with no shields results in a kill. A shot to the head from the Sniper on a shielded opponent results in a kill, anyway. How are headshots supposed to be more effective?

 

I'm confused by this concept of Armor, along with shields and health. How would that even work at all? No one's bothering to explain this idea...

when i say "headshots more effective' im talking about reach where it didnt matter if you got shot in the head with shields or not it would be the same damage, i want it back to h3. Back to grenades, in real life you die from the shockwave of a frag, from the distance of shields popping in halo, make them better. and plasma grenades im ok with the way they are but from a long way away they can kill you so if they keep it like that i dont care. And i guess i would be fine with the frags too.

[Lehcs]

Nerf plasmas AND lethalize frags? That would make them the exact same as each other except for how one bounces, and the other one's sticky. And I don't understand how headshots are supposed to be more effective. I shot to the head with no shields results in a kill. A shot to the head from the Sniper on a shielded opponent results in a kill, anyway. How are headshots supposed to be more effective?

 

I'm confused by this concept of Armor, along with shields and health. How would that even work at all? No one's bothering to explain this idea...

I have not idea as to how the armor would work and it seems like it would only mess up the core gameplay of halo. But he means by "make headshots more effective" is that in every other halo game besides reach head shots did more damage to the shields. Making the game take more skill and be more rewarding when you got a perfect 4 shot

[Lehcs]

Oh my bad i didnt see the second page lol

[Hell Jumper 72]

Health packs gotta go, just saying.

[iCaPWN3d]

Halo 3 grenades were the best. They had perfect trajectory, AOE, physics, and damage.