Should 343I remake maps for Halo 5 ?

[Caboose The Ace]

Credit to this goes to Biggles for inspiring this.

 

Should 343i remake old maps from past Halo games for Halo 5 like Blood gulch or Valhalla or the pit or any old Halo map you can think of.

 

I would say no Halo 5 is going to be a true next gen Halo title and should be a huge next gen step in the series.

So old maps should not be in because

 

1 They get old fast and don't work as well in the next Halo because that Halo has moved on take Halo 4 for example with Ragnarok, Loadouts destroyed the flow of that map and the whole thing became one big DMR snipe fest 

2 The new maps would fit the next Halo game more

3 They new maps would be fresh and new experience and could really show off the power of next gen with no stuff from past gen holding it back such as maybe Halo 5 could have destructible building ?

4 Remade maps in Halo never live up to the original map anyway

 

 

But what do you think ?

 

EDIT

 

This is for the base game no DLC included.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Caboose the Ace

[Unease Peanut]

Halo 5 needs a ton of new maps. And maybe as DLC a flashback to the best maps of the previous halo's all round. Like Blood Gulch.

[Caboose The Ace]

I am talking about the base game no dlc included.

[Maestro]

For the basic maps that come with the game, there should be one remake. Otherwise, there should be completely new maps. The strategy 343 used with remakes for Halo 4 should suffice, as only one remake appeared in the game itself and then another remake was included in a DLC pack.

[BeckoningZebra1]

I want there to be many new maps in Halo 5, but I also want a fair share of re-makes. Specifically Bloodgulch, Countdown, and High Ground. I think remakes can do very well, they bring back a bit of nostalgia, and help retain somewhat of a theme in the multiplayer aspect of the franchise.

[Twinreaper]

This is a very touchy subject for me and am I sure the entire community as well. Since the days of Halo 2, we have had remakes of maps from the granddaddy that started it all, Halo Combat evolved. While at first this made sense, as many players shared fond remarkable memories of pwnage, the updated maps seem to lose their luster when reworked and ported to newer titles.

With Halo 2, the reimagined maps seemed to work the best. Halo 2’s gameplay mechanics were similar to Halo CE’s. In particular, the jumping, basic movement and basic player control, allowed the classic maps to maintain the same feel and gameplay. There was really nothing added to the gameplay that would adversely affect the strategy or mechanics of the original maps.

 

The hardest part of the remakes is what and how to update them to fit the current title. With the dawning of Halo 3, we were again given a blast from the past. But, the remade maps lost even more of their luster and suffered greatly due to the improved and updated gameplay mechanics of it’s predecessor. Maps that once were well known and balanced, became a playground of confusion and the gameplay didn’t seem to fit well. Updating maps is a tough business, and no picnic for the developer. Aside from the challenges, I think a lot of the community saw constant remakes as a touch of the following…

 

1. Creative Laziness.
2. Milking previous titles to sell a current one.
3. Subpar environment artist in development and imagination.
4. Poor time management.

 

So why even now do we want and ask for remakes? In my honest opinion, having a remake or updated map, makes us feel closer to a particular title we enjoyed the most, and allows us to relive those memories and forgive/forget that we are playing a title we do not enjoy on the same magnitude or level. If you carefully go through and examine the choices people make for their remake selection, you can almost with 100% certainty, pinpoint which title they enjoyed the most, and why. The overall map design and symmetries can tell you a lot about a player, their style, and their preferred title mechanics.
As this is getting a bit long, my point is this. If we want to see a bright future for Halo and the franchise, we need to start moving away from the remakes, and the horrible Forge community maps. What we need is brand new vision. We need original designs and a new method to foster creativity both internally and externally.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I think Forge was a good step in providing a middle ground for map makers, but it will never compare to the creative flow and imagination on a scale that will ever rival a PC Development Kit. Instead of focusing on remakes and Forge, I believe the future of Halo should incorporate a solid PC development pipeline, allowing the community to build maps, compile them, and upload them to the Fileshare. This would allow a greater expansion of customized gameplay for Custom games. Furthermore, we could then have the official channels of 343i, choose great maps from the community, and incorporate them into solid MM playlists for official use in the same way they use Forge maps.

 

Again, this is getting too long. In a nut shell, remakes will only serve to stagnate and slow down the progressive creative scale of the Halo franchise. We DO NOT NEED MORE REMAKES! We need original design and flow. For those who lose track of maps for the franchise, here is a list of all the maps and their variants.

Halo 1:
1. Battle Creek
2. Blood Gulch
3. Boarding Action
4. Chill Out
5. Chiron TL-34
6. Damnation
7. Danger Canyon
8. Death Island
9. Derelict
10. Gephyrophobia
11. Hang’em High
12. Ice Fields
13. Infinity
14. Longest
15. Prisoner
16. Ratrace
17. Sidewinder
18. Timberland
19. Wizard

Halo 2: 6 remake maps / 16 original / But some resemble others in layout.
1. Ascension
2. Backwash
3. Beaver Creek = Battle Creek
4. Burial Mounds
5. Coagulaton = Blood Gulch
6. Colossus
7. Containment = Sidewinder
8. Desolation = Derelict
9. Ivory Tower
10. Elongation = Longest
11. Foundation
12. Gemini
13. Headlong
14. Lockout
15. Midship
16. Relic
17. Sanctuary
18. Turf
19. Terminal
20. Tombstone = Hang’em High
21. Warlock = Wizard
22. Waterworks
23. Zanzibar

Halo 3: 7 remakes-mashups / 14 original
1. Assembly = Derelict = Desolation
2. Avalanche = Containment = Sidewinder
3. Blackout = Lockout
4. Citadel
5. Cold Storage = Chillout
6. Construct
7. Epitaph
8. Foundry
9. Ghost Town = Turf
10. Guardian = 50% Ascension & 50% Lockout
11. Heretic = Midship
12. High Ground
13. Isolation
14. Last Resort = Zanzibar
15. Longshore
16. Narrows
17. Orbital
18. Rat’s Nest
19. Sandtrap
20. Snowbound
21. Standoff
22. The Pit
23. Valhalla = 75% identical to Coag and Gulch

Halo Reach: 4 original maps / 16 remade – mashup maps

1. Anchor 9 = Rat’s Nest
2. Battle Canyon = Battle Creek = Beaver Creek
3. Boardwalk = 75% Gephyrophobia
4. Boneyard
5. Breakneck = Headlong
6. Breakpoint = 75% Sidewinder
7. Condemed = Chillout = Cold Storage
8. Countdown
9. Forge World = Bloodgulch = Coagulation = Valhalla
10. High Noon = Hang’em High = Tombstone
11. Highlands = High Ground
12. Reflection = Ivory Tower
13. Penance = Damnation
14. Pinnacle = Ascension
15. Powerhouse
16. Ridgeline = Timberland
17. Solitary = Prisoner
18. Spire
19. Sword Base = Prisoner
20. Zealot = Midship

Halo 4: 13 original maps / 12 remake-mashups. That aside, every map feels similar.

1. Abandon = Backwash
2. Adrift = Countdown
3. Complex
4. Daybreak = 75% Containment
5. Erosion = 50% Foundry & 50% Waterworks
6. Forge Island = Self Explanitory lol
7. Exile
8. Haven
9. Harvest
10. Impact
11. Landfall
12. Longbow = Breakpoint
13. Meltdown = Icefields
14. Monolith
15. Outcast = Foundation
16. Perdition = 50% Turf % 50% Terminal
17. Pitfall = The Pit
18. Ragnarok = Valhalla
19. Ravine
20. Shatter
21. Skyline = Warlock = Wizard
22. Solice
23. Vertigo
24. Vortex
25. Wreckage

 

So in conclusion, while remakes do have their place in the franchise, as you can see, remakes make up a good portion of all the maps for the titles. 31 remakes (variations) to 66 original maps, and that’s being generous on the “original” part. 1:2 map ratios do not sit well with me. What do you guys think

[Caboose The Ace]

I agree with you Twin , to many remakes and not enough actual new maps. We could have 3 or 4 or even 5 for DLC and no more take Halo 4 for example Ragnarok sucked in Halo 4 it was a DMR snipe fest the whole way though why ? 

 

Because Ragnarok / Valhalla were designed for Halo 3 when there were no loadouts and when power weapons were the key and no armour abilities to speak of..

That is not what Halo 4 is Halo 4 has loadouts armour abilities and power weapons have taken a seat back to a extent I think because of loadouts... And so now the whole map is just one big DMR fest because Valhalla / Ragnarok were not designed the way Halo 4 plays...

 

And so any remakes should be careful tuned to fit the game even changing stuff round on the map if need be and on that note only 4 or 5 remakes and all for DLC as we want new good next gen maps not old maps that no longer work as well if at all.

[Connor Kenway]

there normally are re makes of maps there have been since Halo 2 so it's to be expected that there will be

[Maximum Clutch]

I'd like to see blood gulch and guardian remade. The rest of the maps should be new.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Maximum Clutch

[Akali]

they shouldn't be lazy and just update maps like they have done but i wouldn't mind to see one or two but i think they should mostly make new maps instead of some maps from the campaign like haven was

[ShockGazm]

100% I want to play on a mixture of maps regarding Halo 2 and 3. Even if it's apart of DLC i'll still buy it.

[Shun 'Kanamee]

Blood Gulch, Lockout, and Hang 'em High are iconic symbols. Coagulation, Hemorrhage, Blackout, Tombstone, and High Noon just does not have the classic atmosphere of those. They do not need a remake. They need a direct port with the same layout, graphics style, tone, weapon placements etc.

 

Weapons you say are popular and just put it at that (Sandtrap, The Pit, Valhalla) Might be a welcome edition for remakes. But do not change the vehicle style there. Valhalla with mantises does not add up. Just resize/neaten up the map and make some eastereggs. 

[thefish54501]

I want more remakes than just 2 like in Halo 4 but I want new maps as well

[Yoshi1176]

Halo 5 should release with original maps only, and then release some remakes in DLC.

I would like to see some of the classics return like foundry, Zanzibar and what not. Halo 4 and Reaches maps didn't have the feel that Halo 2 and 3 had, I would like the essence of the maps if you will to be recreated in the future maps of Halo.

[Fishy]

Definitely a big NO! They need to create new maps instead of remaking older maps, but if they did what Peanut said and made a DLC called "Flashback Map Pack" then that would work.

But only if these maps were contained:

 

Blood Gulch (All time player favourite.)

Chiron TL-34 (Because you're not gonna know where to go.)

Waterworks (Because getting killed by a cave pillar is always fun.)

Ivory Tower (Mostly because it's the best SWAT map ever!)

[Vaulting♥Frog]

Considering the constant evolution of Halo's gameplay I say absolutely not. I don't even want to see a DLC with remakes or updates. If you want to play on your favorite old maps then go play them on the game they were designed for. Halo 5 should, in my opinion, not have a single remake or update to any old maps. Each map should be brand new and designed to work with the new and improved gameplay mechanics, including armor abilities, custom loadouts, ordnance drops, static weapons and so on. Even the old game modes need reworking to fit into Halo 5.

 

CTF needs to take into account new vehicle mechanics, armor abilities and faster spawns. King of the Hill needs to do the same. Even the basic slayer needs to make some adjustments to fit in with the new mechanics. No longer are we left with bare bones gameplay like Halo: CE (which was awesome on its own) and the mechanics of each game type should reflect that. To me I feel they haven't done that in Halo 4 or even Reach. Heck I don't think they have done that since Halo 2 and even then it is stretching it for me. There is so much potential in Halo 4 that went unrealized because the game types weren't tweeked, or tweeked enough, to mold around the new mechanics available to the players.

 

Take it however you want but this is what I think.

[Buns]

Am I the only one who wants to see Halo 3 ODST Firefight maps remade? Some maps like Crater would be really good for Free-For-All slayer games. 

[Coldfreeze]

I think forge ruins a lot of DLC. sure some maps are incredibly well made, but it ruins any purpose of having DLC at all.

 

Bloodgulch should return, I love that map.

 

Second I never realised how much valhalla/ragnarok actually looked like blood gulch, besides the crater being a hill.

[Is not JL]

Remake? Great. But it will have to be remade in a way that fits the gameplay style, otherwise it's gonna suck.

[Twinreaper]

Hey Bnus, just so you know you are not alone on the ODST maps. If it pleases you, I have a version of Crater for Halo 2 I made called Hollow. I also have both Security Zone and that Zoo type level in the works. ODST FF maps were very well done in both layout and lighting. Crater alone is probably one of the most detailed maps ever made.

[Shun 'Kanamee]

I actually agree with no remakes, sort of. Instead they should directly add Blood Gulch and Hang 'em High and make new, GOOD, maps.

[Melody]

Pretty much as everyone else said, they could make it as a "Classic DLC" of sorts.

[Mothy]

I think Halo 5 should have a classic gametype, that has some old maps in it. You don't get any loadouts to pick from, and everyone gets an assault rifle and a BR. Thats my opinion anyway

[Shun 'Kanamee]

I have an idea for 2 spiritual successors to Sandtrap 

 

Tundra: It takes place in an icy ruin that has 2 new Shadow M2s instead of Elephants, they appear in the campaign and are more similar to an elephant.

 

Sahara: This will take place in what is probably an ancient forerunner kingdom. It's huge! It makes Coagulation look like a storage closet! It also has mammoths that carry 2 warthogs.

[SPARTAN 117]

Blood Gulch and Valhalla are the only remakes I would deem necessary