WHAT ARE YOU DOING 343?!

[FesojNagod]

OK so I'm watching a video from HaloFollower, a video about "Halo 5 news" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0rm-8MjvkY

 

And he's talking about another video from Microsoft, called "Xbox One Design Show" and at one point in that video we see a user on the Xbox One make a post saying he's playing "HALO 5 INFINITY SLAYER ON HAVEN"

 

Now I just hope this is some kind of placeholder or something, because if you are seriously bringing back Infinity Slayer god help Halo. With Halo 4, you tried to fix Halo Reach's problems. You could have made a game that was like Halo 1-3, with the core experience that all Halo fans know and love and WANT, or you could go with Reach's type of playstyle.

 

Halo Reach was not a good Halo game. The fans didn't like it, Reach is what made Halo start go downhill, and for some reason you decided to keep building upon the broken base that was Reach. Reach was broken and you tried to fix that with Halo 4 instead of just burying the memories of Reach once and for all, NOT ONLY THAT but at the same time you tried to add so much stuff into the game, that it ended up being a complete MESS. Ordnance drops? Adding randomness into a game that is very comptetitive and have a very basic sandbox is not a good move.

 

One team could have map control and be in the lead, and then an ordnance drops down next to the team that was losing, giving them an incineration canon, and swing the flow of the game completely, out of randomness. Now that's a very extreme example, but it could happen.

 

Ordnance drops took away the critical need for map control, part of the map control in previous titles was to be able to get the power weapons and power ups, therefor getting the advantage, you can go on a, what is it 7 kill spree and get either? Ridiculous. 

 

Sprint... Sprint... Sprint works in Cod, Battlefield because the killtimes are so fast. In Halo, giving sprint to a player that can take 3 shots before his shield is down, made so that you could put yourself in a bad situation that should've gotten you killed, but because you can sprint away you are not dead. The "core" Halo experience was so good because you had to constantly think about where you go and how you can get away if you have to, or you were dead and opens up a push for the enemy team. That doesn't work anymore with sprint in the game. Get rid of sprint, it simply doesn't work with Halo because of the killtimes.

 

Hitmarkers is something many people probably doesn't care about, but I do. It gave you an advantage and let me tell you how. Let's say I'm playing on The Pit, and I'm sitting in the sword room, trying to get a flank on someone. And then suddenly someone bounces a grenade of the wall and it lands in the room and when it blows up, I take damage. Not a big deal, except now he knows there's someone in there and I'm suddenly in a disadvantage. This is jus an example but I hope it brings the message. You can basically "see" someone without seeing him.

 

Armor Abilities is not game breaking, except promethian vision and jetpack, I think that you should remove Armor Abilities all together, because they break this really even sandbox Halo has. Everyone has the same weapons and abilities (none) and what team can control the map and power ups and weapons will probably win the game. Now there's AA's in the sandbox, so even if a team is at a disadvantage they can still GET an advantage because of AA's. Now as I said, I feel like removing the AA's is the way to go, but if you really have to have it in the next Halo game, make it like a powerup. Like the evade on Reach, me personally didn't feel like it broke the game. It was another point of the map that you had to control, or else the other team would get an advantage. 

 

Because you decided to add so much stuff into Halo 4 at the same time as you tried to fix the broken base that was Reach, it ended up being a mess, really. Broken, no balance. Oh, the boltshot. BEFORE the nerf, it was a one shot kill in close range. Ridiculous, glad you nerfed it, really glad you did. I personally feel like it should NOT be a secondary weapon that anyone can use, but rather a weapon on the map that you can pick up. I don't know why you removed the Mauler, and replaced it with the boltshot really, it feels like that's just something you did to erase the "bungie" feel and add "343" feel, the same way you changed chiefs armor, the look of the weapons, the crosshairs. I personally was so mad when you changed the crosshairs. That's just a small detail, that you changed for no reason really. When you change enough of small details like that you will end up removing the feel of the genre, and that's what happened with Halo 4. 

 

I hope you 343 decides to listen to the Halo fans, because if you do we will be playing your next title endless of hours, way beyong the release of the next title, or if you try to fix Halo 4 with the next title, you will attract casual players for 1 month then they're gone. Thank you for reading. This is just what I feel is right for the Halo genre, I love Halo and I want it to succeed.

[Azaxx]

I guess I'll reply to this, since you wrote a crap tonne there.

But expect it to be all rejected.

 

 

First of all, don't take that video seriously with Halo 5 and Haven, that account doesn't even have XBL. It's just a couple of words stuck together.

 

Getting that tiny detail out of the way, we move to Reach. And it was a good game, in fact I'd say a great game.

Halo shouldn't be stuck in the past, it needs to move on to cater to new fans and stop being a boringly unoriginal game series that it potentially would've declined to. Halo Reach wasn't even remotely bad for a game as a whole. It was well made, quite original and had a powerful team constantly patching it with updates.

Sure it had some problems that were multiplayer breaking, like small glitches, and more commonly known, the insane bloom for the DMR.

 

I found the Ordnance Drops a neat idea that could've been improved on, but they worked fine enough. If you were skilled enough as a team, the losing team with Ordnance Drops wouldn't be much of a threat, because you have skill to counter it. Gonna make this clear now, I'm not trying to act all tough and MLG, but I easily countered people with powerful Ordnance Drops with most of my loadout weapons. The lack to do that is showing the lack of teamwork and/or skill from the individual.
Map control can easily be won with the proper amount of team work and skill, power weapons don't always change the balance of the game.

 

One thing about sprint is this. Why the hell doesn't a super future soldier not have the ability to run? It literally makes no sense, it should've just been added into the game simply because of that reason. But unfortunately, fans would've not bought the game completely if that reason was given.
I don't see how sprint affects the game in a big way, it makes for more opportunities to outplay your opponents, and not being able to counter sprint is a pretty big sign that someone can't play well. Since it's available for all players in Halo 4.

Core experiences are a matter of opinion. I see the core gameplay as this, in one short sentence; Super Soldiers with shields with 2 weapons and grenades pit against others of the same kind. That's literally it, that sums up Halo Multiplayer in a nutshell, everything else are extras.

 

I haven't played Halo 4 in a while, so I forgot what these hitmakers are, let me know what they are properly if you want. Cause I just can't remember them lol.

 

Armour Abilites are great in my opinion, with the all time most useless being hologram though. Never liked that poor excuse of an ability. Jetpack barely has an advantage, because when you're in the air, you're just like a duck in England, screwed. Promethean Vision I do agree is a bit overpowered. Sure it's awesome for Flood or something, but on a map like Adrift, it's so damn powerful.

As a whole, I am fine with them staying in the game, I'd be annoyed if AA's are actually removed from the game. Since they bring a new edge to gameplay, and one that works well.

Boltshots were bloody easy to counter, I never had problems with them personally, and I barely ever used them because I found them more inefficient than efficient. The high pitch sound and that build up time was more than enough for my to 'nade someone or just run. But that opinion doesn't change when they were nerfed, granted by playstyle doesn't have me going up CQC much.

I will say the Mauler was only ever in 2 games, Halo 3 and ODST, which was built from Halo 3. Having that gun not in that game, really doesn't make any difference at all. 343i needed to make this their own game, they needed their own feel. Which I mainly got from the new style of music composed.

That being said, from the mess they made, 343i openly said many times that they made plenty of mistakes with Halo 4 and thanked everyone for sticking by them to tell them what they did wrong. So they could improve the experience for the next Halo titles they make, assuming the next one will be Halo 5.

 

343i has listened to the fans since the launch of the game, every update has been decided from votes on waypoint and other places like NeoGaf. 343i continually had new supports to the game to try and fix it, slowly but surely they've fixed multiplayer.

It's still not perfect, but it's nothing like the messiness it used to be at launch.

[FesojNagod]

I guess I'll reply to this, since you wrote a crap tonne there.

But expect it to be all rejected.

 

 

First of all, don't take that video seriously with Halo 5 and Haven, that account doesn't even have XBL. It's just a couple of words stuck together.

 

Getting that tiny detail out of the way, we move to Reach. And it was a good game, in fact I'd say a great game.

Halo shouldn't be stuck in the past, it needs to move on to cater to new fans and stop being a boringly unoriginal game series that it potentially would've declined to. Halo Reach wasn't even remotely bad for a game as a whole. It was well made, quite original and had a powerful team constantly patching it with updates.

Sure it had some problems that were multiplayer breaking, like small glitches, and more commonly known, the insane bloom for the DMR.

 

I found the Ordnance Drops a neat idea that could've been improved on, but they worked fine enough. If you were skilled enough as a team, the losing team with Ordnance Drops wouldn't be much of a threat, because you have skill to counter it. Gonna make this clear now, I'm not trying to act all tough and MLG, but I easily countered people with powerful Ordnance Drops with most of my loadout weapons. The lack to do that is showing the lack of teamwork and/or skill from the individual.

Map control can easily be won with the proper amount of team work and skill, power weapons don't always change the balance of the game.

 

One thing about sprint is this. Why the hell doesn't a super future soldier not have the ability to run? It literally makes no sense, it should've just been added into the game simply because of that reason. But unfortunately, fans would've not bought the game completely if that reason was given.

I don't see how sprint affects the game in a big way, it makes for more opportunities to outplay your opponents, and not being able to counter sprint is a pretty big sign that someone can't play well. Since it's available for all players in Halo 4.

Core experiences are a matter of opinion. I see the core gameplay as this, in one short sentence; Super Soldiers with shields with 2 weapons and grenades pit against others of the same kind. That's literally it, that sums up Halo Multiplayer in a nutshell, everything else are extras.

 

I haven't played Halo 4 in a while, so I forgot what these hitmakers are, let me know what they are properly if you want. Cause I just can't remember them lol.

 

Armour Abilites are great in my opinion, with the all time most useless being hologram though. Never liked that poor excuse of an ability. Jetpack barely has an advantage, because when you're in the air, you're just like a duck in England, screwed. Promethean Vision I do agree is a bit overpowered. Sure it's awesome for Flood or something, but on a map like Adrift, it's so damn powerful.

As a whole, I am fine with them staying in the game, I'd be annoyed if AA's are actually removed from the game. Since they bring a new edge to gameplay, and one that works well.

 

Boltshots were bloody easy to counter, I never had problems with them personally, and I barely ever used them because I found them more inefficient than efficient. The high pitch sound and that build up time was more than enough for my to 'nade someone or just run. But that opinion doesn't change when they were nerfed, granted by playstyle doesn't have me going up CQC much.

I will say the Mauler was only ever in 2 games, Halo 3 and ODST, which was built from Halo 3. Having that gun not in that game, really doesn't make any difference at all. 343i needed to make this their own game, they needed their own feel. Which I mainly got from the new style of music composed.

That being said, from the mess they made, 343i openly said many times that they made plenty of mistakes with Halo 4 and thanked everyone for sticking by them to tell them what they did wrong. So they could improve the experience for the next Halo titles they make, assuming the next one will be Halo 5.

 

343i has listened to the fans since the launch of the game, every update has been decided from votes on waypoint and other places like NeoGaf. 343i continually had new supports to the game to try and fix it, slowly but surely they've fixed multiplayer.

It's still not perfect, but it's nothing like the messiness it used to be at launch.

They decided to put those exact words in the video, "INFINITY SLAYER ON HAVEN" and I simply fear the worst and wish it's just a placeholder. 

 

Reach was broken and was not well balanced. Reach and Halo 4 are good games, but they aren't good HALO games, since they move so far away from the original trilogy. That's how I feel. Reach got the MLG playlist, and I felt like that playlist was the best playlist in the game, and that playlist removed sprint, AA's except jetpack as a pick-up, removed the bloom and removed lots of things to make the game more balanced and fair to the players. And I agree with Halo needs to move forward, I'm saying this is the complete wrong direction for Halo since right now it's just broken. If I'm not mistaken Halo 4 had 2 million players at launch, and then after like a month it dropped to around 40k. That is insane, that should speak for itself that the majority of the Halo fans did not like Halo 4. And it's great that they patched Reach as much as they did, but the game was still out of balance and broken by all the things they added into it. 

 

If both teams were equally skilled and in a competitive match, the losing team who got the lucky ordnance would be able to shut the winning team down or atleast break their control easily. There is no way you can predict that the other team is gonna snipe you in the head, and you can't really counter that. That opens up an opportunity for the losing team that should not have happened in the first place. I feel like the ordnance drops adds too much randomness into the game, you can even get killed by them. 

 

And if you countered people with powerful ordnance drops easily, that means that your opponent was not at the same skill level as you. This post is more directed towards competitive play, were both teams are skilled and knows what they are doing, have good teamwork and are equally skilled. 

 

Sprint as I said in my original post is what many people call "free get out of jail card". Let's say it's on The Pit CTF, and you push onto their Training and keep pushing without really thinking. You then start getting shot, and instead of dying and getting punished for your stupid push you just turn your back to them and run away. It also breaks the map flow because you can get everywhere so fast. Just compare The Pit with and without sprint, take Sanctuary, take Countdown. In a competitive enviroment spring simply doesn't work. I also don't really see the potential on how you can outplay someone with sprint, sure you can flank someone faster, but that's where the problems with it breaking map flow.

 

And a super soldier SHOULD be able to sprint, that's 100% correct and I can't argue with that, but Halo isn't supposed to be "realistic" you can't say "oh well ofcourse a super soldier is able to sprint! That just makes sense, oh what's that he can jump 2 meters in the air? That doesn't make sense but throw it in anyway" You can't think realistic on one point of the game then completely ignore the realistic touch on the rest, Halo is not realistic and has no need to be.  If you have that mindset that it should be realistic, you take away the alien weapons, the aliens, you see where I'm going. 

 

Power weapons and powerups doesn't always change the game, that's true, but again, I'm focusing on competitive matches here and teams, it really does makes things easier, and if you get a hold on a power weapon or powerup there's a big chance you will break their control. You can't prepare for something that's random. And if both teams are equally skilled, map control is not easily won. Because again, I'm focusing on competitive matches and teams.

 

Hitmarkers is : If you deal damage to someone, you will see 4 lines around your crosshair, as an indication that you have not dealt damage. 

 

Jetpack, if used right is a HUGE thing, not on all maps though, but on some maps it can be AMAZING. Imagine if everyone had jetpacks on construct in Halo 3, just imagine that. A normal MLG hill or Slayer on MLG CStruct, but everyone had jetpacks and sprint. You can get to critical points of the map easily, which again breaks map flow. If used by a casual player and he flies straight up in the air, then he's an idiot and you are right, he's a sitting duck. But if used by competitive people, it changes the game. 

 

If they need to keep AA'S, make them as powerups, so that not everyone has acces to them.

 

Imagine you're shooting someone from behind, and you get him down to one shot, he runs around the corner and you run after him thinking "OK he's one shot, I'm not, I got this" and then he wips out the boltshot and one shots you as you come around the corner. How do you counter that? Be careful and not rush him like an idiot is one way sure, but the thing is he still has that power, to kill you with one shot with his secondary weapon. That's an insane amount of power for a secondary weapon. You shouldn't prefer the secondary weapon over your primary in a situation like that, that is an indication that it's not balanced. 

 

343 has listened to the fans, they have done an excellent job and I know that they have admitted making many mistakes, but I hope they won't stop here and I'm giving my vision on what Halo should be. 

 

As many people say, They can split things up, keep all of these things we just talked about in the game, but don't force it on us. Make us able to disable them for gametypes and maps. 

 

I appreciate your response but I feel like you focused more on the casual side of things, and my focus is more on the competitive were both teams are equally skilled. 

[Twinreaper]

Skill is defined by YOUR ability to outplay or out maneuver your opponent.  The game itself should not help you do that.  Again I'll ask this question to you, since you brought it up without merit or any documented proof to back up the claim.

 

If Halo 4 and Halo Reach were failures compared to Halo 3, then why is Halo 3's population so low?  Why was it lower than Reach's even 6 months after Reach released, and why is it still now, the lowest population of the franchise?  You said clearly that Reach and Halo 4 were failures .

 

As for map flow and critical points in a map, I'm curious.  Who dictates what are critical map points?  You?  The MLG?  Critical map points are a collective team or individuals views of the map itself.  What you conceder a critical point, many others may disagree and call it a weak point.  That is not a fact, that is an opinion.

 

Sprint is exaggerated by you and many others.  I have yet to run into a situation where sprint breaks my ability to engage or take down an enemy.  I have never had someone sprint away from me, only to down me around a corner.  This same tactic applies all across Halo even without sprint.  If an enemy rounded a corner at the last minute and you followed, and he pulled out a shotgun and killed you, did you rage?  The answer is likely yes, as sprint itself did not lead to your downfall, but your own action to follow the enemy into a blind area was the downfall.  Again, I have not had that happen to me at all.

 

As for your references to old maps and the new items the game brings, this is why map remakes don't work.  You can't justify an item usage or ability being taken out, basing it on how is functions on older maps.  Older maps were designed with the specific titles mechanics in mind.  The only reason remakes worked for Halo 3, was because the movements and abilities were nearly identical to Halo 2 and Halo 1.  maps like Construct, Sanctuary,  The Pit, these maps were selective by YOU to show how abilities broke a map.  Those maps were not designed for Halo 4 gameplay,

 

The only reason those maps exist in later titles is because players wanted them.  You knew what the risks were of bringing over maps of that type to a new game, and you got exactly what you wanted.  So don't cry about it now.  Halo 4's maps work perfectly with the abilities we have.  The flow is not slow, and it is not broken as you go on to say.  Every example you list, goes against my own personal experience.  Am I saying your wrong?  No, I'm saying that you cannot exaggerate a personal experience and go onto assume that everyone has this problem.  More correctly, it seems that you just get stuck with bad players, or players who would rather use sneakier tactics to take you out.  Either way, that turns into a true skill problem for you, not a problem with the game.

[BaconShelf]

HaloFollower

 

 

There's your problem.

[master elite]

why should i have to die if i can get away and have my shield recharge and then kill you i should  

[rrhuntington]

why should i have to die if i can get away and have my shield recharge and then kill you i should

You wot m8?

 

I'm afraid to respond to this because I don't know what this is in context to besides Halo 4. I'm guessing your speaking of how when your in a fight and try to sprint away you're slowed down by bullets. It seems better like that, if you lost the fight you lost the fight, don't run away from me.

[Is not JL]

Halo 4 is an evolution. As much as 343i tripped and accidentally took two steps backwards, they did push on and take a step onwards. They added new things that could be awesome but honestly just had bad implementation. Ordnance was like killstreaks and I thought that was gonna be beast - until I realized anyone could get it. Sprint was awesome; I liked moving, moving fast, and if I caught someone sprinting like an idiot, they were dead. Kill times are around 1.4 seconds. That's long enough for me to pop their shields and kill them.

 

Halo 4 might not feel like core Halo, and admittedly Halo 3 might have much better balancing, the game nonetheless needs to change.

 

(Dang Halo fans lmao. "Durr Call of Doody no change every year bad game sucks" "Omg so much change in Halo pls we want Halo Reach/3/2/1/ back this new one sucks" 

[Screech]

There's your problem.

 

Lol, the dude reports on anything and everything, all for the views. I think he got his start on here too, didn't he? I seem to remember him having a pretty active news thread on here when the site first launched...

[The Director]

Lol, the dude reports on anything and everything, all for the views. I think he got his start on here too, didn't he? I seem to remember him having a pretty active news thread on here when the site first launched...

 

Literally anything and everything. If tea leaves seem to suggest that a weapon named "The Devastator" is going to appear in Halo 5 he would post it. The guy is the "National Enquirer" of Halo.

 

Also, it has already been confirmed to be a placeholder by 343industries. Since when has Halo released a game with maps that have the same names as their predecessor?

[ChristopherRyan]

I don't understand why the game needs to "evolve" every release.

 

"Hmm, we've got a great game hear, lets change it completely, because that will be fresh and new. Hey how come no one plays our game now? Oh right, because we changed it completely, and its not the game that people know and love anymore, its a mishmash of 'new and fresh' stuff"

 

Halo would have been better off keeping pretty much the exact same gameplay from title to title. The gameplay worked great, all you need is new graphics, new maps, some new weapons, and minor improvements every 3 years. Bam, success.

 

The reason Halo has failed is because every single game is so drastically different. Everyone has their own opinion and favorite game, thus we have various factions of people fighting over which style of Halo is the best. If Halo had kept to its roots, we wouldn't have this argument. All this "new and fresh, evolve" stuff is so unintelligent its not funny. 

 

What if they completely changed the way american football was played every year? What if one year, they made it so you any player could throw the ball forward, and the next year, they made it so you made 1 point every time you made a catch? The game would die, because some people would like to play it one way, and some people would like it the other way. That's why you don't see super successful games changing that much over time. Chess, Football, Soccer, Baseball, Poker, whatever, pick your poison. These games LAST, and people love them because they don't go changing all the time. Sure, they go through minor tweaks, but never so much to change the spirit of the game.

 

I don't know if there's any way for Halo to succeed anymore. Halo has so many different kinds of fans, and so many different styles of gameplay, that anything they release will be hated by a lot of people.

 

If they release Halo 4.5, the original community will rage, again, and if they release a good Halo game, ie, classic gameplay, they will lose all of the new fans they brought over with the newer features.

 

You shot yourself in the foot, 343, best of luck to you. You should have been smarter, and saw that Bungie made the mistake of starting Halo down this path with Reach. You should have put Halo back on track. You should have released a good Halo game.

[The Director]

 

What if they completely changed the way american football was played every year? What if one year, they made it so you any player could throw the ball forward, and the next year, they made it so you made 1 point every time you made a catch? The game would die, because some people would like to play it one way, and some people would like it the other way. That's why you don't see super successful games changing that much over time. Chess, Football, Soccer, Baseball, Poker, whatever, pick your poison. These games LAST, and people love them because they don't go changing all the time. Sure, they go through minor tweaks, but never so much to change the spirit of the game.

 

You should REALLY do your research on American Football before making that analogy... The game has changed so much since it was first broadcast that it doesn't even play the same any longer.

 

Interesting tidbit, XFL was created to "go back to the roots of Football" and went by the almost original rule book. Then it tanked. Hard.

 

Anyways, the OP has been answered and it appears we are going off topic, so the topic is going to be locked now.

 

gg