There is a place for armor abilties in Halo.

[sindronian]

I see this posted pretty much everywhere: "Halo needs to go back to its roots. Take out sprint and armor abilities."

I don't really want to argue about whether or not sprint should be in the game because I mostly think it's a really dumb argument. It's more realistic to sprint and to some having more realism is more important than having the type of gameplay we did without sprint. There is no right answer once again it's just people's opinion.

Armor abilties however...I don't like their current implementation either but I believe they have a place in the game.

A core gameplay element of Halo has been racing to weapons/power-ups on the map. I'm not sure if Halo started this kind of gameplay but I know that games even today adapt this mechanic (battlefield 4). It's a really fun and rewarding mechanic.

Whether or not Halo started this mechanic I would argue that it is essential to Halo, just like no ADS. Having no ADS may seem stupid and to be honest it kind of is but without it I believe the way Halo plays would just change too much. Besides the spartan's have H.U.D which allows them to hipfire accuratley with the center reticle.

I think that armor abilties should be in the game but I think that they should be severley limited compared to their current frequency. I think that 1, 2 at most armor abilities should be pick-up-able objects on the map. This way you can give armor abilties more purpose by making them essential to finding power weapons/items. For example a Banshee may only be accessable by a jet-pack.

I think the issue with armor abilties is their frequency. It sucks to have to be constantly shooting desperatley upwards at people who don't know how to use jetpacks stuck miles in the sky spraying their assault rifles down at you while the rest of the team is wreslting you from behind with armor lock or zipping around you with evade. It's just a ******* mess.

I don't want multiplayer to be a mess. How do you clean it up? Limit the crazy **** that players can do and give each crazy thing a clearly defined purpose.

I admire 343i's effort to take multiplayer to the next level. However, giving players a bunch of crazy abilties that they can spam doesn't help making the game more fun to play. It just makes it a giant mess as I said above.

So, we can have armor abilties....just make them infrequent and pick-up-able on the map.

Thoughts?

Edited May 29, 2014 by sindronian
Removed inappropriate language. Do not attempt to circumvent language filters.

[Caboose The Ace]

I think that armor abilties should be in the game but I think that they should be severley limited compared to their current frequency. I think that 1, 2 at most armor abilities should be pick-up-able objects on the map. This way you can give armor abilties more purpose by making them essential to finding power weapons/items. For example a Banshee may only be accessable by a jet-pack.

 

 

I don't like this idea of restricting vehicles if you don't have a Jet pack for example but then making armour abilities pickups bring us back to the good ol days of Halo 3 and of course equipment. I myself love the idea of equipment a lot and see it as a fair ground for people who like and do not like armour abilities. So I do think equipment instead of armour abilities should come back in the next Halo.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Caboose the Ace

[sindronian]

I don't like this idea of restricting vehicles if you don't have a Jet pack.

Yeah that was sort of an extreme example. I don't know if I would like it either. It could just be simple things though, like ammo crates or something. Just gives the abilties more purpose. They might not even need that though. Like you said they could just be pickups. For example on a vertical map like "Prisoner" from halo CE you could have jetpack pickups. I think that would be a great improvement for the map and not only would it make it more fun but people would want to get to the jetpack pickup first as well.

 

Sure there are instances of Reach/Halo 4 where the jetpack would be specifically useful but often times the jetpack is used in maps where it isn't needed or in scenarios where it isn't needed. This just ends up making the game messy. Everything should have a clear-cut purpose to ensure quality gameplay. Jetpacks may be fun in griffball to some people but in my opinion they just make a flat-floored well defined game into something chaotic that would just get old faster. The gametype just becomes harder and more frustrating to play. You can avoid this by placing armor abilties on the correct maps/gametypes and not letting players run around using this crazy stuff in every possible instance.

 

What 343i is doing with armor abilties now can be compared with the concept of putting a rocket launcher, sniper rifle, incineration cannon and fuel rod cannon on every map. Sure those items are all useful, but together they make the game more chaotic.

 

Maybe the current generation of gamers, at least the kids, prefer these kind of chaotic unmanageable game environments. Hopefully 343i can develop halo 5 into something more controlled, with more purpose, like Halo 3 was. I think Halo 3 was more fun because it was developed for fun and for the ability to predict things where Halo Reach and especially Halo 4 fail in that respect.

[Richard John Wilson]

Armour Abilities should stay in the game, but I seriously believe 343 cocked up the Armour Abilities in Halo 4, and I presume it will not get better in Halo 5.  Progress means that exaggeration becomes more and more ridiculous.

In Halo 4, you have things like Wheelman, which makes no sense what-so-ever, a Neural Implant in a Spartan that makes Vehicles stronger and better is a complete joke.  Stability is another senseless Ability, if a shot that is powerful enough for cause a Spartan to Flinch and shoot the birds in the sky, then clearly that shot is powerful enough for kill.  Headshot !!!

Halo 4 is cluttered with stupid and pointless Loadouts such as above.  Halo Reach Loadouts were a start and Halo 4 made them interesting, but the exaggeration has made the game a joke.

 

Armour Abilities should stay in the game, but they need to cut down on the stupidity.  In my opinion Halo 4 was made by developers that were new to Halo, and brought CoD in to the game.  This to me is a fail, and again it is an addition of stupid Abilities that do not belong in a Halo game.

 

I noticed a change in the Abilities in Halo 4 from Halo Reach, for example Jetpack.  Its range has been cut down in Halo 4.  I remember that the Jetpack runs longer in Halo Reach than it does in Halo 4.  This to me was wrong, and wonder why it was made this way.  This is the most changed Ability in the game, obviously some of the other Abilities are better in Halo 4 than in Reach.  Camo and Decoy are better in Halo 4 than Halo Reach.  So why make Jetpack worse in Halo 4 than in Halo Reach ???

 

Armour Abilities need to stay in Halo, but common sense even in a game needs to take effect, it is funny that the Weapons side of the Loadouts work out well, it is just a majority of the Abilities.

 

One more thing though, before I go.  Thruster Pack.  Why, that is the biggest question.  I see that it is fun, and if you fall from a great height (enough to kill you), you can use Thruster Pack to save your life (already tested it).  Evade would have been a better option.

Sprint, I think it works well in Halo, it is part of a Spartan, the ability to increase speed for short periods of time.

[Caboose The Ace]

I noticed a change in the Abilities in Halo 4 from Halo Reach, for example Jetpack. Its range has been cut down in Halo 4. I remember that the Jetpack runs longer in Halo Reach than it does in Halo 4.  So why make Jetpack worse in Halo 4 than in Halo Reach ???

One more thing though, before I go. Thruster Pack. Why, that is the biggest question. I see that it is fun, and if you fall from a great height (enough to kill you), you can use Thruster Pack to save your life (already tested it). Evade would have been a better option.

Sprint, I think it works well in Halo, it is part of a Spartan, the ability to increase speed for short periods of time.

 

1 Because the jet pack was OP in Reach and lets face it, You stayed in the air for quite some time. Too much time.

2 Because Evade was also OP in Reach and Thruster like the shorter Jet pack range, Thruster is a balanced alternative.

[Richard John Wilson]

I never liked Evade anyway, damn thing was a pain in the arse.

As for Jetpack in Halo Reach, I completely disagree you, Jetpack was not Over Powered.  And, in Halo 4 it is not as good as Halo Reach, and in some respect Under Powered.

My opinion of course.

[TheBritishSpartan]

I think they're fine how they are in halo 4..... Don't cut my head off.

[sindronian]

I think they're fine how they are in halo 4..... Don't cut my head off.

I won't cut your head off but that statement you made doesn't really help anyone or this discussion.

 

The truth is, is that Halo 4 multiplayer failed in its longevity (population is low). You know when a multiplayer game has been and continues to be successful when it has a high population for a long time. For example World of Warcraft and Halo 3. A lot of people argue that World of Warcraft has been taken in the wrong direction but I would argue the opposite because there are still millions of active accounts.

 

Whether or not the implementation for armor abilities are to blame for Halo 4's failure in longevity, I have no idea. I think that Halo 4 failed to continue to maintain a high population because the multiplayer itself is a big mess and the implementation of armor abilities contribute to that mess.

 

Anyway, we'll see in the future if there's ever a Halo game that can last long with loadouts and the current implementation of armor abilities. Unless they add in totally new multiplaer innovations on the side I'd be surprised.

[TheBritishSpartan]

I won't cut your head off but that statement you made doesn't really help anyone or this discussion.

 

The truth is, is that Halo 4 multiplayer failed in its longevity (population is low). You know when a multiplayer game has been and continues to be successful when it has a high population for a long time. For example World of Warcraft and Halo 3. A lot of people argue that World of Warcraft has been taken in the wrong direction but I would argue the opposite because there are still millions of active accounts.

 

Whether or not the implementation for armor abilities are to blame for Halo 4's failure in longevity, I have no idea. I think that Halo 4 failed to continue to maintain a high population because the multiplayer itself is a big mess and the implementation of armor abilities contribute to that mess.

 

Anyway, we'll see in the future if there's ever a Halo game that can last long with loadouts and the current implementation of armor abilities. Unless they add in totally new multiplaer innovations on the side I'd be surprised.

 

I agree that it failed in its longevity, But I don't think we should blame Armour Abilities or Load outs for anything perhaps even the game itself or 343i, Since halo Reach had them, And it had Armour lock the biggest mistake in Halo's multiplayer history, Yet somehow it kept going for longer than 4 [ From what I can remember at least ]  Even though 343i did what bungie did, But better. They made Load-Outs propper load-outs not Bungies cheap version, They removed armour lock and replaced it with a shield. They added a system to reward players with power weapons... Maybe It came out at the wrong time? It released right next to blops 2 right? Or maybe...People just don't want halo anymore, Maybe that's it. Who knows?

 

I also don't see what you mean by halo 4 being a mess in multiplayer, I think it's perfectly fine like halo reach, Yet reach lasted longer.

 

But overall I think halo 4 is one of the best Multiplayer halos, A strange opinion which people seem to disagree with me. But hey, We all have our opinions

[Richard John Wilson]

The Abilities ruined Halo 4 for me, it felt too much liked CoD in space.  As above posting, my reasons...

Halo 3 would still be heavily played if it were not for the lag, I have had the odd play on Halo 3, and keep telling myself I will never go back because it is just too laggy.

And, yeah, Armour Lock was a defining factor to me, I hated it with a passion.  To me Armour Lock was a cheat, a nicely implemented Bungie legal cheat, and it was made even worse with the DLC that gave people more of a reason to use it (The Achievement).

Halo Reach is still played, but I do steer clear of Multiplayer, that got a bit old when the playlists were plagued by Community Maps.  There should have been a separate play list for these maps, which sadly there was not.  So, it is Firefight for me.

Firefight...  If only Bungie had not crapped up Halo 3 ODST Multiplayer Matchmaking, I know which Firefight I would be playing.

 

@Sindronian  World of Warcraft is the best MMO out there, regarless of the direction it has taken.  For me WoW started going downhill with Catalysm, MoP just made it what it is today.  A mindless rush to End Game.  A game now so easy, Primary Schoolers can play.

 

Halo 5 needs to learn from mistakes made by 343 in Halo 4, but I have a feeling this will not happen.  343 might actually run Halo in to the ground, this will be a sad day for Halo fans.  A day I am not looking forward to.

[Eqwinoxe]

Armour Abilities add extra things to the Spartan program. I believe they have worked around the fact that we didn't have them in Halo 3, to now having them because the technology got much more advanced. So, I believe they should stand where they are, and for what Caboose said, I agree, I believe they should tone them down a bit.

[Delpen9]

Halo Reach failed in my mind because they made the majority of the armor abilities into 'acrobatic' moves. As a consequence, I felt that these weren't armor abilities per se, but instead my spartan became a gymnast, which leaves me wanting to do cartwheels like the Spartan 2s in Halo Wars. (Why can't we do cartwheels guise!? We'll call it 'side launch'.)

 

The tactical packages and support upgrades of Halo 4 continued the practice of having ridiculous skills that only relegated what made armor capabilities sooo.... special. Sure, the creative wombats like yourselves might say that they put in some 'carbon fiber with elastic properties to allow for mobility' (I'll condemn you for saying this- Think this to yourself, next person who posts below me), 'a specific hardware up-link to your vehicle that launches you out of its ejector seat before explosion' (No!), or ' a personal maintenance system that stimulates the legs and induces longer lung capacity'. Though this is low on my list of complaints, it would be nice to have an explanation for some of these upgrades and packages. 

[sindronian]

I also don't see what you mean by halo 4 being a mess in multiplayer, I think it's perfectly fine like halo reach, Yet reach lasted longer.

Lol you already said you think the game is fine.  I got it man. 

 

In terms of the multiplayer being a mess I mean I don't want to have to deal with the guy in front of me with a hardlight shield while some dude is rocketing above my head with a jetpack spraying AR bullets into me while another guy is evading back and forth....******* etc. 

 

Yes I found while playing Halo 4 you often had to deal with people using several abilities at once, same as in Reach. You can't do a thing in those situations. There's always one other enemy who isn't using an ability and who's shooting you like a normal human being while you can't do **** because of the armor ability party in front of you. 

 

Without armor abilities it becomes a lot more simple. Some guy walks in front of you? Shoot him to death. 2 guys walk in front of you? Throw a grenade and shoot them to death. 3 guys pop in front of you? Well you're probably dead but way less dead than you would be if they had armor abilities. What we have right now just doesn't work for me and a hell of a lot more people than just me also find dealing with abilities frustrating although you may not. 

 

That is what I mean by mess. It was far worse in Reach when you had several enemies armor locking together ******* kill me now. 

[Richard John Wilson]

I had never thought of it that way, Sindronian.  But I got to admit some of the Armour Abilities should stay in Halo, whilst most need to go.  Halo 3 did excellent with out Armour Abilities, and that has to be the best ever Halo game, both Campaign and MM.

Now the Armour Abilities are here, it would be wrong to take them away, but right to get rid of some of the stupid ones, this includes Packages too.  As I have stated before some Armour Abilities/ Packages are just plain stupid, the ones that should stay are...

 

Jet pack.  I find this an excellent AA, especially for Snipers, whether full on Sniper or DMR.  Height is key and flight is might, Jetpack is a keeper.

Camo.  Whilst this can be a pain in the Arse, it has its tactical uses.

Regen Shield.  This has great uses in games such as Objective Games.

Decoy.  Its uses are obvious, but I added this with a 50/50 thought in mind.  It is not often it is used, so it has a 50/50 usage.  Basically, I would not care if it was never used again.

Sprint.  I am not sure about this one as a AA, I think it should stay a permanent thing.  After all, you are a Spartan, which has that ability anyway.

 

I am not going to get in to the Packages, but half if not most should be gotten rid of, they have no right to be in a Halo game, they are just leeched from CoD, and if people want to play CoD style games, then they know what game to play.

[Rue]

I love the sprint feature, it does make the game more

realistic because all heavily armored super soldiers

made to protect humanity should be able to do something

as basic as a sprint.

 

The armor abilities in my opinion make the game more...

interesting. It matches more of what the game is about.

Like it's a shooter like CoD, but it's more alienish and

has a lot of high tech things. The armor abilities only make

it that much better to me.

[sindronian]

I had never thought of it that way, Sindronian.  But I got to admit some of the Armour Abilities should stay in Halo, whilst most need to go. 

I am not going to get in to the Packages, but half if not most should be gotten rid of, they have no right to be in a Halo game, they are just leeched from CoD, and if people want to play CoD style games, then they know what game to play.

I agree for the most part. I think only extremley simple abilities should stay, like jetpack for example. Sure camo has tactical use but it's annoying as hell getting your radar jammed so frequently and it's like one of the most essential pieces of your gear. If camo were a single pickup item for a few maps I wouldn't mind but I think it should just stay in campaign and custom games.

 

I don't like the packages either, but that is another topic of conversation.

 

I love the sprint feature, it does make the game more

realistic because all heavily armored super soldiers

made to protect humanity should be able to do something

as basic as a sprint.

 

The armor abilities in my opinion make the game more...

interesting. It matches more of what the game is about.

Like it's a shooter like CoD, but it's more alienish and

has a lot of high tech things. The armor abilities only make

it that much better to me.

 

I think they make the game better but the entire point of this thread, which you didn't really comment on, was to find a better way to control armor abilities.

[Warlord0520]

I think armor abilities such as "sprint" should be used in Big team Battle, but i dont care for having armor lock, or jetpacks though because it completely defeats the whole purpose of trying to take cover when someone can jetpack up 50ft and kill you. But then again, armor abilities help pace up this game.

[Caboose The Ace]

Jet packs I think need to go they completely,

 

 

Jet packs destroy almost all destroy map control....

[BeckoningZebra1]

Jet packs I think need to go they completely,

 

 

Jet packs destroy almost all destroy map control....

I disagree. Jetpacks add a new level of strategy for teams to work with.

 

Maps can still be controlled, but map makers have to account for the presence of jetpacks when constructing a map, and teams have to be ready for the possibility of a player using a jetpack. Jetpacks are not destroying map control, they only make it more complex, an upgrade really.

[sindronian]

I disagree. Jetpacks add a new level of strategy for teams to work with.

 

Maps can still be controlled, but map makers have to account for the presence of jetpacks when constructing a map, and teams have to be ready for the possibility of a player using a jetpack. Jetpacks are not destroying map control, they only make it more complex, an upgrade really.

I would just like to see jetpacks on vertical maps, on pickup of course, not a loadout. It makes using the jetpack a lot more fun when the map makes sense to use it and you can get an avdantage in that sense.

 

For example I enjoyed jetpacks on swordbase from Halo reach.

 

On a map like swordbase you can actually take cover from people with jetpacks easily. There are tuns of walls and floors to run beside if someone is in the outer section shooting at you with a jetpack.

 

I think jetpacks destroy map control when the map is just a giant open field or a map that just isn't tailored for the jetpack's use. On maps like that it's uselss to take cover, they can just fly above the rock and shoot you unless you are playing with team mates who are on the ball and can cover you after a moment's notice.

 

I just think jetpack needs to be limited and placed on the right maps, then it will be okay, fun and not frustrating.

[Warlord0520]

As long as the dumb armor lock ability isent in there I will be ok. Because I don't want to wait 10 minutes to kill someone when they can delay combat in the middle of the game + it's the only armor ability that can damage enemy players, reflect fire, absorb damage, and block melee attacks while depleting shields. As for camo, jet pack, sprint and halo gram, I'd rather have these 4 because most were in halo3 if I remember correctly. Armor lock was the biggest noob friendly ability halo has ever had, not to mention it destroys vehicles too which is so OP.

[Mr Biggles]

I liked AA. They should be put in, but nerfed heavily so they are not as userful and powerful, since it seems 343i want to move away from AA.

This may be what the other abilities are, weakened versions.

[Is not JL]

I would just like to see jetpacks on vertical maps, on pickup of course, not a loadout. It makes using the jetpack a lot more fun when the map makes sense to use it and you can get an avdantage in that sense.

 

For example I enjoyed jetpacks on swordbase from Halo reach.

 

On a map like swordbase you can actually take cover from people with jetpacks easily. There are tuns of walls and floors to run beside if someone is in the outer section shooting at you with a jetpack.

 

Jetpacks as an armor ability destroyed map control. Did your team manage to beat the enemy team in claiming the higher areas of the map? Did you manage to force them into areas with less vision, less control, and required them to come towards you while you gained the ability to pick them off? The moment they have jetpack as an armor ability that all changes. All that work, nullified, because all it takes is the hold of a button and they can get right up next to you. Cover isn't exactly the issue in my eyes; its the fact that the work you spent on claiming the areas of the map for your team to gain a strategic advantage is absolutely useless because the strategic advantage is negated by an object which players can spawn with.

 

A jetpack is fine with me if it's a picked-up armor ability, since that, itself, is a tactical advantage that players need to fight for, similar to power weapons, or ovie/camo/equipment in previous games.