Deeply concerned about the MC Collection.

[Voltaeus]

I just wanted to voice some of my concerns following this weeks announcement and showing of the Master Chief : Collection. 

 

1.) System Link - It has been reported that no system link is planned for the MC: Collection.

 

2.) No multi player split screen - There are very few legitimate excuses as to why this can't be. Split screen has always been a degraded experience and this would be no different, if that is the given excuse.  

 

3.) Individual Playlist - The lack of individual playlist is my biggest concern about the collection. If my understanding is correct you choose a playlist i.e. Team Snipers and then your lobby chooses which game from the collection you play. This is literally the worst design decision that could have possibly been made. This means I can't specifically play the multi player for the Halo title I want. Last time I checked each game is drastically different from the next. As such players have a favorite from the series. I personally love Halo 2 far more than any of the others. So, why would I want to go into the playlist and have a "chance" at playing Halo 2, and get stuck playing a title I have far less interest in. It's honestly ridiculous. As I said before this is my biggest concern and in all honesty will decide if I choose to buy an Xbox One. 

 

4.) Not all maps are included - I was troubled today when I happened upon the official Halo twitter stating that the maps Desolation and Tombstone from Halo 2 were not included in the MC : Collection. The reasoning was that we already had Hang Em' High and Derelict. While true we do have those maps yet that's in a completely different game. By now most know that game as Halo : CE. This is ridiculous reasoning. I could say the same about Last Resort being in Halo 3. Why do we need it in Halo 3 when we've got Zanzibar in Halo 2. Why have 3-4 different versions of Blood Gulch when Halo : CE has the original. You see this reasoning as I said is ridiculous. 

 

5.) Glitches, Jumps - I was looking over an article and it mentioned that all glitches were left intacted and for all intensive purposes the games are a carbon copy of the originals. Yet, I saw that one developer (I forget who) mentioned they removed "a weird jump glitch". When I hear this it leads me to believe he was referencing super bounces. I could be wrong about this assumption. I hope I am as bounces added another aspect to the game that many enjoyed. When Halo 2 was still fresh there were whole communities dedicated to just bouncing. If this were removed from the game it would be yet another bad design decision. 

 

6.) Ranking System - While this isn't as critical of a concern it's one I take seriously. I much enjoyed the ranking system that was in place during Halo 2. It felt like you were accomplishing something when you pushed for rank and achieved your goal. Halo 3 had a similar system but it was much more lax and didn't leave me with a feeling of accomplishment. This might be because I was able to hit 50 in playlist with ease which was a pipe dream in Halo 2, for several reasons.

 

These are just a few of my concerns. I may have gotten some information wrong as this is all still fresh. 

[InfinityDusk]

I'm sure it's still being worked out, we can only hope that it's what we expect it to be.

[Azaxx]

1. System Link is planned, they're just finding it tough to make it work with all of the 4 engines running the games. Frankie said they want it in though.

2. No idea where you got that from, local play was confirmed.

Because otherwise there would be like 60 playlists, and that's way too many. This is how it goes; You pick Team Slayer playlist, you get partied up, 3 maps are randomly picked for voting options, which could be Halo CE Wizard/Halo 2 Midship/And Halo 3 The Pit, they lobby votes for the one map, and the game starts. That's the best they could've done, otherwise loads of playlists would be utterly dead, and pointless.

Again no idea where you got that idea from, I checked the official Halo twitter, nothing is said of the sort. 93 MP maps, 50 Spartan Ops missions and 45 campaign levels are included.

Frankie said that some of the glitches/bugs were removed because of geometry. When recreating the maps, some glitches relied on certain pixels, and upgrading to 1080p changes that along with changing that map geometry. It was a small price to pay, but not all glitches are gone, example BxB/BxR.

Dan said the community will be very happy of the ranking system, if they liked the Halo 2 and 3 system in particular. But they will release more info on that within a couple of months.

[Fahzgoolin]

I know some people above answered, but I figured I would chime in as well because I share the same concerns you have. 

 

1.) They said they are looking into system link, but said it's more complicated now and have to work out some issues before they consider it to make it into the final product. Hopefully system link can occur so competitive play (like MLG) could once again play Halo 2 or Halo 3 for competitive. 

 

2.) Split screen is actually confirmed and they are even adding online co-op to Halo 2. 

 

3.) I hated this too at first. In fact I was super pissed. Frank mentioned, I believe in the IGN interview, that because of Xbox One's enhanced connectivity with the community and the use of dedicated servers, custom games will be easy to find and join out in the wild. That means if you want some Halo 2 team snipers on Terminal and Headlong, you will probably be able to find it. Also, the community behind all of this is pretty massive, so you could assume you could easily find Halo 2 MLG games etc. Frank also said that there will be an option to use control schemes that can be used in all games so it's not so jarring. 

 

4.) Yeah that sucks too. However I don't remember them giving the exact reasons for not including them. 

 

5.) It has been confirmed that all the glitches should remain in tact, except a few might not work because they relied on a few pixels just in the right spot, and is not something that is easily recreated due to it being a problem with the Havoks physics engine. Frank said that when they upped it to 1080p, pixels shift and move and it causes some super bounces to possibly not work. As a side note, it's entirely possible that since it's running on the same engine, new super bounces might be found. 

 

6.) The Halo 2 ranking system would be nice, but maybe that have something better? Also, since it seems to be a unified matchmaking experience, having a strict ranking system like Halo 2's spread over the broad range of Halo games would be rather terrible IMO. They would have to give a separate rank just for Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 4, and Halo CE. 343 cares about the playlists, but doesn't want some of them to end up vacant. Remember what happened to Halo 3 when it received a ton of new playlists? The community was spread thin and it was hard to find matches, which sucked. In the end, the unified system will probably be for the best. If you want good competitive play, start up some customs or find one in the game of your choice. I'm sure many, including myself, would be anxious to play Halo 2 all day long for weeks.

 

 

I share your same concerns man, and I hope some better solutions get put in place. But honestly, I think this whole thing is an outstanding value anyways and it's PRIMARILY there for everyone to experience all of the story at once before Halo 5 lands. Frank admitted during the IGN interview that they will learn or take into consideration the behavioral patterns of the community and what they seem to prefer. This will help influence game decisions in Halo 5.

[Twinreaper]

Ok.first off super bounces have nothing to do with "pixels", thats just a completely ridiculous misunderstanding of things. Superbounces are a result of the engine miscalculating a players location at specific points in a map. The "bounces" are a result of collision detection with the bsp. Resolution does not change the collision of a map, so I dont know what you are talking about with that. If any glitches or bugs do or do not work, it will be because of the engine itself is being loaded, used and emulated to run on the Xbox One, not something as silly as upping fidelity.

Ok.first off super bounces have nothing to do with "pixels", thats just a completely ridiculous misunderstanding of things. Superbounces are a result of the engine miscalculating a players location at specific points in a map. The "bounces" are a result of collision detection with the bsp. Resolution does not change the collision of a map, so I dont know what you are talking about with that. If any glitches or bugs do or do not work, it will be because of the engine itself is being loaded, used and emulated to run on the Xbox One, not something as silly as upping fidelity.

 

Again though, this is the silly stupid regressive gameplay you all wanted back so much, and to 343 if they happen to read any of this, this is what you get for trying to recreate an experience and game that should be left to the ages. Milking and reviving old games, does not a fun gameplay make. Especially on new hardware meant for greater things. Total waste of time and money.

 

And for the record, Microsoft already made its money off of consoles. The only remaining sales they stand to make, are from consoles still available for purchase through its own stores. Every console you see in a nkn Microsoft store, has already been purchased, and those sales finalized with Microsoft. Manufacturing more consoles for retailers to sell, is what this whole MMC title is really about. Supply and demand...thats what it comes down to.

 

I.dont know what Frankie is.talking about with that being the cause. Superbounces are explained in various VidOCs from Bungie. Maybe Frank shaved away some of his brain when shaving his head. The only thing that might cause gmitches that rely on geometry to work, would be the updated graphics mode of Halo 2. That being said, they didnt change the collision models in CEA when running the game on new mode, so I dont see why they would allow it with H2A.

[Fahzgoolin]

Frank I think is referring to it in a very layman's terms sort of way, which is why we are quoting him. It seems that some of the actual geometry is shifted due to them raising the resolution to 1080p. Some minor geometry had to be changed apparently, which in turn "shifts some pixels" which is why some super bounces might not work.

 

And look, we all love Halo, and want our classics back. It's no different than, say, Valve making a new Counter Strike. The core game is very similar, but with better graphics. Many Counter Strike players refuse to budge to a newer title. Minor changes to some are MAJOR changes to many. So yes, we are more than willing to pick up an outstanding package filled with all of our favorite games running at a higher resolution and frame rate, with NO HOST PEER TO PEER advantages, dedicated servers and the same multiplayer experience we MISS and love.

[Twinreaper]

Geometry is baked during compiling of a bsp. Resolution does not effect where the geometry is when loaded in the game engine. The point he is referrwncing is likely the way that Havok handles collision and physics. Superbounces as well as barrier ramming is a problem with Havok specific to the version used in Halo 2, which is why we dont see the phenominon in other later titles. Due to emulation and the different resorce usage of the Xbox One, it is likely the detection will be quicker and THAT effects the superbounces.

 

Frank is likely just using his choice of words to dumb it down for a majority of the community who would not understand a full explination. Its easier to say things like, pixels shifting, rather than referrence player spacial coordinates and collision detection.

[Udo2C]

I hate to bring back an old thread but didn't want to create a new one just to make this post.

 

I truly hope system link is included in Halo MCC. System link for Halo 1 is what got Xbox to where it is today. The LAN party can be revived with this one simple move and bring back the social interaction of gaming that was so key on the original Xbox. 

 

If you get any updates on this please let me know.

[Mycoxxaphloppin]

Will you still be able to do the Halo 2 headlong wraith launching glitch to get out of the map in custom games? I used to love exploring outside of Headlong and getting warthogs out of the map

[Twinreaper]

The wraith launching isnt a glitch, so it should work, assuming all Havok Physics code executes and handles properly, given the platform change.

[DriverRetro]

I'm going to be very specific with this. 

 

By all means I found this video with edited material of amazing ideas that must be included in the game. 

 

 

The space ship battles, should be included in Halo 4. These scenes should be included in the remastered edition. There are few ideas that could be discarded but space battles like those should be included in the game. 

 

I want to see a remaster of Halo 3 and Halo 4. Those where great games but with the technology and tools available these could get a remake. Please, work on them, expand those amazing worlds and bring more exploration for Halo 3 and 4. Those where great games that need attention. 

 

I find interesting the switch between the original and the updated edition. However I prefer a profound remake of Halo 1, Halo 2, Halo 3, and retouch a bit Halo 4 adding more weapons and freedom of exploration. 

 

Include SPACE BATTLES. WE WANT THOSE....

[rrhuntington]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5tJfoR8nqI

1:32 till the end makes me think of Halo 5: Guardians on the sand.

[DriverRetro]

1:32 till the end makes me think of Halo 5: Guardians on the sand.

 

Pretty much. 

 

Many of these great ideas are canned so they are used for later sequels. It saddens me a lot to see so much potential wasted. I know, it is a market for money so some policy should be done to stay relevant. However watch game like Planet Side 2, they nailed the concept perfectly. This was the expected Halo and someone else made it happen. 

 

I do play the Halo franchise time to time however many ideas are dropped. I really don't know why.