My Thoughts On Spartan Abilities

[Jazzii Man]

Here are my thoughts on Spartan Abilities based on what we know so far, and the ways in which I think they could be implemented.
 

What do we know about Spartan Abilities so far?

- They're not Armour Abilities.
- They're not Armour related, but are things that Spartans can do inherently. In Halo 2, the new SAs would be dual-wielding and vehicle boarding.
- Every player has the same set of Spartan Abilities
http://teambeyond.net/forum/index.php?/topic/5709-frank-oconnor-confirms-armor-abilities-removed-from-halo-5/

http://teambeyond.net/halo-5-guardians-wont-armor-abilities/

 

Why do I personally think they could complement Halo gameplay?

First and foremost, everyone has access to the same set of abilities, so there's no guessing what the other play has at their disposal. This means that unlike with AAs, SAs will allow players to predict (without guess-work) what the other player might do during any given encounter. It also means that players wont have functional advantages over each other.

But it's important to mention that a feature isn't automatically good just because everyone has access to it at all times. I think there is more to consider when it comes to whether or not each individual SA will work.
If I could put into one sentence my philosophy on how they should fit into the game, it would go something like this:

Spartan Abilities should give players different options - options which require a decent amount of skill to utilize - for approaching encounters, without taking anything away from the validity of the skills that would otherwise have been appropriate in approaching those encounters.

But what would be an ability that wouldn't fit into this description? Let's take armour lock and pretend that everyone had it at all times, and let's ignore for a moment that it was armour related for the sake of this point.
Armour lock was used in order to save a person's life in a situation where they otherwise would have had to fight their way out of the same situation had Armour Lock not been an option. It happens at the simple push of a button, yet the benefits to the player greatly outweigh those of simply fighting without armour lock.

Imagine a typical situation where Armour Lock would be used - a player is losing an encounter. And let's look at the typical impact that armour lock, and a lack of amour lock will have on that situation:

Armour Lock
Player input - pushing and holding a button. Very little thought or timing necessary in gaining the benefits.
Outcome - greatly improved chance of survival (at least for the time that you're pushing and holding the button).
No Armour Lock
Player input - having to use skills such as out-shooting and out-strafing the enemy. Requires a decent amount of timing and thought in order to make effective use of those skills.
Outcome - greatly reduced chance of survival

So Armour Lock not only required very little in the form of human input, but it also negated and drastically reduced the necessity for other skills which were already valid in its absence.

So how about an ability which does actually fit into that philosophy? Well, a good example of that would be vehicle boarding.
Vehicle boarding gives players an option for taking over vehicles which are currently in use by the enemy team, but without having to destroy the vehicle, and without having to rely on power weapons or grenades.

Why is it not a bad option in the same way that Armour Lock is? Because:
1) Typically, it requires a decent amount of skill, timing and thought to pull off. So it doesn't present itself as an obvious choice over the skills which were previously necessary in taking on an enemy vehicle (killing the player).
2) It isn't always an option, and most of the time, the previous skills are still more appropriate in taking on enemy vehicles than vehicle boarding itself. Vehicle boarding is only valid when you get close enough to actually use the ability in the first place, which in itself is an effort to achieve, unless the enemy player makes a mistake of their own. So the other skills, such as destroying the vehicle itself or killing the people inside it, are still very much appropriate and valid.
So to put it simply, the extra option isn't something which negates the need for skill in order to take on the vehicle, it simply adds another option which still requires timing, thought and a decent amount of skill from the player to use effectively.

How does this apply to Spartan Abilities?

I think that they should all be more aligned with the kind of things vehicle boarding brought to Halo gameplay, and less aligned with what armour lock brought to gameplay.
 

My current theory on the ground-punch Spartan Ability
One of the abilities which the Halo 5 beta trailer seemed to show off was the yet-to-be-officially-named 'ground pucnh' abilitiy. It shows a spartan using the thruster pack to thrust down and punch the ground. The resulting effect in the trailer is that the enemy spartans get blown away from the impact (and possibly killed?), even though the ground-punch-spartan didn't actually come into direct contact with them.

I think the ground punch might do damage based on the height you fall from when using it. For example, falling from a mere jumping height will do very little damage (if any), while falling from a large height (say from the top of Construct to the bottom) will do more damage, and perhaps have a higher damage radius, due to the fall itself taking longer.
If this theory is true, then it would seem to be a self-regulating feature in that players who try to spam the ability, by simply jumping and using it over and over again, will get very little benefit from it because they wont be using it from a decent height. And the result will be that they're putting themselves at risk more than they're helping themselves.
If players use it from a height, the increased damage would be the reward for having to time the jump/fall more accurately to get results.
Also, as pointed out by Gobias no Teambeyond, it would reward the controlling of higher ground, but you would have to sacrifice that advantage in order to risk the opportunity to deal more damage.
 

Some questions:
What would your own philosophy be on how the Spartan Abilities should fit into Halo gameplay?

Do you have any theories on what some of the yet-to-be-shown SAs might be?

What do you think about how the 'ground-punch' SA should/could work?
 

 

[I_Make_Big_Boom]

You make some very solid points, and currently I don't really have questions regarding the matter. I do have some ideas for some Spartan Abilities, and I want to see what you think of it.

 

1: Spartan Duel.

 

I know pretty much the whole MP experience is somewhat of a "duel", and the Sword duels bring it even further. I'm aiming for something like Gears of War's Chainsaw duels. It could be like this:

 

- If you and the opponent happen to both have Swords then when you "clang" together 3 times you come into a power-struggle type of duel. It's more or less a fight between who can button mash the fastest (I know we need less of that, but the Chainsaw duels were hella fun), and both Spartans try to overpower the other. If you happen to beat the other Spartan, you can do any number of things to the other and kill them. Maybe punch their chest with your left arm, kick in their leg, and stab them in the chest or something. Then maybe kick them away. It's like an Assassination animation, but something you fought for instead of stealth killing (well it's not really stealth since you can Assassinate anyone regardless of the state of battle).

 

- If you, and another player happen to melee each other with anything besides a Sword 2wice (as in both of you timing the melees perfectly adjacent to each other), you go into another type of power struggle duel with Combat Knifes. Maybe when you progressively start to beat the other Player you begin to start pummeling the other, and kill them. Pretty much the same outcome of the Sword duel.

 

What sets these apart from Gears though is that you, and the other player are completely invincible until the duel ends. The only thing that could kill you would be everything else besides regular loadout weapons. This feature could be disabled in the custom games, and some playlists.

 

2. Unintentional Suicide Bomber.

 

When you run up to Assassinate a Player, you can get another option to ram a Grenade (any will do. Plasmas, Frags, Pulse etc) or Sticky Det Mine (or maybe equipment if it's in Halo 5: like the Landmine) into their power pack. They then run around like a Suicide Bomber before it blows up; potentially killing anyone close by. This can backfire though. The player could run back at you and kill you as well.

 

3. Pole Vaulting.

 

This one may seem a bit outlandish but bear with me here.. imagine you have a Gravity Hammer. When sprinting with the Hammer you could press a button (don't know which could do the job as of yet), and pole vault and/or just launch yourself with it over an obstacle while still sprinting.

 

I don't think they'll allow the Flag carriers to do this seeing they aren't allowed to Sprint, but if they can then heck yes go for it!

 

4. Alternate Assassination moves.

 

Like the title says, more brutal ways to kill people from behind. Like the take downs from Saints Row 3/4.

 

- When sprinting you can do a barrel roll, grab the other player's feet, and throw them at a nearby wall; killing them.

- When sprinting you can jump on the other player's back, and surf on the ground! They then die because you pretty much dislocated their spine or something.

 

5. Fusion Coil Roundup.

 

I don't know why this hasn't been done before, but pretty much just picking up a Fusion Coil (or any other explosive for that matter) and throwing it at people. Maybe moving it to set a trap or something. Obviously you can get killed while holding it though.

 

6. Vehicle Bail/Vehicle Bomb.

 

I know at this point you can still bail from a Vehicle, but I'm talking full fledge getting-the-heck-out-of-there kind of thing while the Vehicle is still going. Like how John in Halo 4 jumped off a Ghost, or maybe just jumping out off a Vehicle, and rolling on the ground. What sets this apart from regular bailing is that you have to hold X instead of just pressing it, and like I said before, the vehicle continues to move forward.

- Now we've got the Vehicle Bomb. Intentionally cram a Grenade (or any other type of explosive) into the Engine, and bail the vehicle as it rams into something.

 

That's all I got for right now.

[SilentGamer64]

Great post Jazzi. What worries me about the potential of the "ground pound" ability working the way you described is that players are going to continue to get to high ground and sit up there until they are either contested in that area or attempt to use the ability on an enemy below, rinse, and repeat. Its essentially the same problem Sword Base had on Reach. Players would get the shotgun/sword, camp at the top of the grav lifts and farm kills off of enemies coming from below. Of course, "ground pound" will have the tradeoff of sacrificing that high position, but that wont stop people from repeating those tactics, leading to a boring, repetitive game of KOTH instead of slayer or whatever other gametype is being played. Competitive maps and gameplay mechanics should promote movement flow, but not lock downs.

 

I'm also worried that these abilities are going to be default and therefore non-toggleable. Thinking back to Halo 2 and 3, duel wielding and boarding were not toggleable, not that they were bad mechanics, but the option to turn them off was just never there. Sure, you could choose not to use duel wields and stay away from enemy vehicles, but that wont prevent others from doing the same. Likewise for these new SA's. For example, maybe you want to strafe away from grenades instead of relying on the thruster pack as a crutch. By doing so you may take some damage from enemy grenades, while your enemy who thrust away took little to no damage. Assuming you continue to strafe and refuse to use thrust, guess who will win most of those engagements? DW didnt have those problems, because you could still hold your own against duels with single wield weapons, regardless of wether they had superior range like the BR or inferior range like the shotgun. Same with boarding, by simply hunting down the rockets/splazer, picking off an enemy vehicle's occupants, and being a smart driver to prevent your own vehicle from being boarded. But how do you hold your own against an ability like thruster pack if you dont wish to use it yourself, without puting yourself at a disadvantage?

[Unease Peanut]

Nice post man!

 

I can only hope that the SA's will be dual wield or something small. And it better not be something so small even I could do myself.

Kind of a tricky one aint it?

 

The ground pound ability seems to me like something that can only be used in the arena type gametype they showed us at E3 and not in slayer or something. Of course I can see it being used in forged mini games.

[Jazzii Man]

You make some very solid points, and currently I don't really have questions regarding the matter. I do have some ideas for some Spartan Abilities, and I want to see what you think of it.

 

1: Spartan Duel.

 

I know pretty much the whole MP experience is somewhat of a "duel", and the Sword duels bring it even further. I'm aiming for something like Gears of War's Chainsaw duels. It could be like this:

 

- If you and the opponent happen to both have Swords then when you "clang" together 3 times you come into a power-struggle type of duel. It's more or less a fight between who can button mash the fastest (I know we need less of that, but the Chainsaw duels were hella fun), and both Spartans try to overpower the other. If you happen to beat the other Spartan, you can do any number of things to the other and kill them. Maybe punch their chest with your left arm, kick in their leg, and stab them in the chest or something. Then maybe kick them away. It's like an Assassination animation, but something you fought for instead of stealth killing (well it's not really stealth since you can Assassinate anyone regardless of the state of battle).

 

- If you, and another player happen to melee each other with anything besides a Sword 2wice (as in both of you timing the melees perfectly adjacent to each other), you go into another type of power struggle duel with Combat Knifes. Maybe when you progressively start to beat the other Player you begin to start pummeling the other, and kill them. Pretty much the same outcome of the Sword duel.

 

What sets these apart from Gears though is that you, and the other player are completely invincible until the duel ends. The only thing that could kill you would be everything else besides regular loadout weapons. This feature could be disabled in the custom games, and some playlists.

First of all, this post was definitely a good read. Thanks for contributing this!

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm not comfortable with the idea of duels in Halo coming down to button mashing, just because I think it would slow the encounter down unnecessarily and because I don't think it takes as much thought or skill as the alternative.

 

What I like about the way sword duels currently work is that when two people start to clash their swords together, one of them can use timing and movement quite cleverly in order to throw the other player off. When they get into a situation where they're rhythmically clashing swords over and over, one of them can pull back and break that rhythm, and if they time it well, they can move forward (after the other player has just missed a sword swing) and then get the kill on the offbeat, if you know what I mean? I don't know why I chose to explain that in a musical way but there you go

 

I don't like that button mashing would negate the timing and movement that would otherwise be necessary, and break the duel down to a simple case of who can hit a button the fastest. It's just not for me that one.

 

2. Unintentional Suicide Bomber.

 

When you run up to Assassinate a Player, you can get another option to ram a Grenade (any will do. Plasmas, Frags, Pulse etc) or Sticky Det Mine (or maybe equipment if it's in Halo 5: like the Landmine) into their power pack. They then run around like a Suicide Bomber before it blows up; potentially killing anyone close by. This can backfire though. The player could run back at you and kill you as well.

The only reason I don't think this would be necessary is because it doesn't seem to be much different than simply sticking someone from behind (in a situation where you could assassinate them if you wanted to). It would seem to me to be a downgrade from what we can already do, because sticking someone from behind already requires a certain amount of timing and aiming to pull off, whereas I'm guessing your suggestion here would require some kind of button combo or something which tells the game to do it automatically?

 

3. Pole Vaulting.

 

This one may seem a bit outlandish but bear with me here.. imagine you have a Gravity Hammer. When sprinting with the Hammer you could press a button (don't know which could do the job as of yet), and pole vault and/or just launch yourself with it over an obstacle while still sprinting.

 

I don't think they'll allow the Flag carriers to do this seeing they aren't allowed to Sprint, but if they can then heck yes go for it!

I wouldn't have anything against this and I can already see the crazy custom games people would make with it! Though I'm doubtful the developers would implement such a thing when there is very little in Halo which could be used in such a way.

 

4. Alternate Assassination moves.

 

Like the title says, more brutal ways to kill people from behind. Like the take downs from Saints Row 3/4.

 

- When sprinting you can do a barrel roll, grab the other player's feet, and throw them at a nearby wall; killing them.

- When sprinting you can jump on the other player's back, and surf on the ground! They then die because you pretty much dislocated their spine or something.

How would you imagine this working? I feel like I need a bit more of an idea on how this could work in terms of what you would have to press and how you would have to time it etc.

 

5. Fusion Coil Roundup.

 

I don't know why this hasn't been done before, but pretty much just picking up a Fusion Coil (or any other explosive for that matter) and throwing it at people. Maybe moving it to set a trap or something. Obviously you can get killed while holding it though.

Yeah definitely. This is something that I think Halo 5 should do, and not only with the ability to pick up, carry and throw fusion coils, but also with the ability to pick up objects such as crates and barricades (assuming the objects aren't too big, of course). Something I love about Halo is the ability to do different trick jumps and to get to difficult spots on the maps that require skill and knowledge to pull off. I think this is something that could be taken even further in Halo 5 if different spots were created that required clever placement of certain objects in order to create the circumstances where you can actually get to those spots.

 

6. Vehicle Bail/Vehicle Bomb.

 

I know at this point you can still bail from a Vehicle, but I'm talking full fledge getting-the-heck-out-of-there kind of thing while the Vehicle is still going. Like how John in Halo 4 jumped off a Ghost, or maybe just jumping out off a Vehicle, and rolling on the ground. What sets this apart from regular bailing is that you have to hold X instead of just pressing it, and like I said before, the vehicle continues to move forward.

- Now we've got the Vehicle Bomb. Intentionally cram a Grenade (or any other type of explosive) into the Engine, and bail the vehicle as it rams into something.

 

That's all I got for right now.

Yeah I like this one too, except I think I'd change it a little.

I love the idea that we should be able to get out of moving vehicles in such a way that they keep moving as opposed to just stopping.

I'm not keen on the idea that we should be able to simply press a button while driving that automatically sticks a grenade in there. I think that we should still have to stick the vehicle manually, using the same skills that are currently necessary. I think maybe people in the side-seat of the vehicle should have the ability to look towards the vehicle (in first person view) and throw a grenade inside it in such a way that it can be messed up and doesn't rely on simply pressing a button to achieve it automatically.

Imagine you have a teammate in the side-seat of a Warthog while you're driving, and as you're driving towards an enemy Warthog, your teammate can throw a grenade inside the vehicle at the right moment, and then you can all jump out and the vehicle will maintain its momentum and just completely destroy the other Warthog.

This would require a team effort, it would require that the person who throws the grenade still has to use the skills of timing and aiming, it would mean that the driver would have to judge the trajectory of the vehicle, and it would mean that the players would have to bail at a well timed moment.

 

[I_Make_Big_Boom]

2. The only reason I don't think this would be necessary is because it doesn't seem to be much different than simply sticking someone from behind (in a situation where you could assassinate them if you wanted to). It would seem to me to be a downgrade from what we can already do, because sticking someone from behind already requires a certain amount of timing and aiming to pull off, whereas I'm guessing your suggestion here would require some kind of button combo or something which tells the game to do it automatically?

 

4. How would you imagine this working? I feel like I need a bit more of an idea on how this could work in terms of what you would have to press and how you would have to time it etc.

 

2. You can only stick a Player with the Sticky Det, and Plasmas. This could be just another little feature aside from just running up and sticking the guys. Plus this works with other Grenades/Equipment that don't stick to players.

 

I also suggest that this is only possible when the other Player's shields are down. And the only reason to do this is to get a better chance of killing more enemy players instead of just 1. Like if he's in a small group he'll kill em all with the grenade explosion.

 

Since the Player controls vary, I think the right button varies as well. But if you have Default on, when the other Player's shields are down, and you're behind them, you get an "Press X To Shove Grenade" or something.

 

4. They can just be special Assassinations for specific circumstances.

 

- Like the barrel-roll-throw maneuver only works if you and the other player are near a significantly tall, or close wall/obstacle, and you happen to be Sprinting.

- The Spartan-Surf maneuver can just be another Assassination for people sprinting at another Player aside from the Tackle Assassination. No requirements aside from Sprinting.

[Jazzii Man]

Great post Jazzi.

Thanks man.

Didn't know you posted on here.

 

What worries me about the potential of the "ground pound" ability working the way you described is that players are going to continue to get to high ground and sit up there until they are either contested in that area or attempt to use the ability on an enemy below, rinse, and repeat. Its essentially the same problem Sword Base had on Reach. Players would get the shotgun/sword, camp at the top of the grav lifts and farm kills off of enemies coming from below. Of course, "ground pound" will have the tradeoff of sacrificing that high position, but that wont stop people from repeating those tactics, leading to a boring, repetitive game of KOTH instead of slayer or whatever other gametype is being played. Competitive maps and gameplay mechanics should promote movement flow, but not lock downs.

I totally agree. That's definitely a concern I have with the idea of the ground pound ability working in this away. The thing is, I'm even more worried about the alternative.

If the "ground pound" isn't situational or based on height (the things which could potentially encourage lock downs, as you put it) then it would seem that it could be spammed in any situation. I imagine people jumping up and doing the ground pound all the time during encounters, just because they can. In order to stop people doing that, I imagine they would have to make it very very weak, which could make it redundant or almost useless.

 

The reason the height based ground pound appeals to me more as it stands is because it seems more like something that would reward good timing while discouraging spamming. But I definitely share your concern that it might lead to too many players hiding at the upper parts of maps, just waiting around for a moment to jump on people.

How do you think they could counter that negative aspect (if at all) while maintaining the advantages the height based ground pound would seem to have? Or alternatively, how do you think they could get rid of the spamming aspect of the non-height based ground pound, while adding something that would reward more skilled use?

 

I'm also worried that these abilities are going to be default and therefore non-toggleable. Thinking back to Halo 2 and 3, duel wielding and boarding were not toggleable, not that they were bad mechanics, but the option to turn them off was just never there. Sure, you could choose not to use duel wields and stay away from enemy vehicles, but that wont prevent others from doing the same.

Are you thinking for custom games or are you thinking that different gametypes should allow for different spartan abilities without actually ever making players start off with different things?

 

Likewise for these new SA's. For example, maybe you want to strafe away from grenades instead of relying on the thruster pack as a crutch. By doing so you may take some damage from enemy grenades, while your enemy who thrust away took little to no damage. Assuming you continue to strafe and refuse to use thrust, guess who will win most of those engagements? DW didnt have those problems, because you could still hold your own against duels with single wield weapons, regardless of wether they had superior range like the BR or inferior range like the shotgun. Same with boarding, by simply hunting down the rockets/splazer, picking off an enemy vehicle's occupants, and being a smart driver to prevent your own vehicle from being boarded. But how do you hold your own against an ability like thruster pack if you dont wish to use it yourself, without puting yourself at a disadvantage?

Yeah you're definitely thinking along the same lines that I have been doing when it comes to these new abilities. I'm also not that keen on the idea of everyone having default thruster packs, simply because I think the act of thrusting while strafing makes strafing and avoiding shots easier than it was without default thrusters, and I don't see what they would bring to the table.

 

This basically comes down to the little philosophy I spoke about in the OP, which is that I think the abilities should bring new options to the table that actually contribute to the skill-gap, and without taking anything away from the viability of the skills that are necessary in the absence of those abilities. You're basically talking about the same philosophy because you don't want thruster to take away from the skills that are already necessary in encounters, such as strafing. I really hope 343 are strongly considering the impact the new abilities will have on the skill-gap.

[SilentGamer64]

The reason the height based ground pound appeals to me more as it stands is because it seems more like something that would reward good timing while discouraging spamming. But I definitely share your concern that it might lead to too many players hiding at the upper parts of maps, just waiting around for a moment to jump on people.

How do you think they could counter that negative aspect (if at all) while maintaining the advantages the height based ground pound would seem to have? Or alternatively, how do you think they could get rid of the spamming aspect of the non-height based ground pound, while adding something that would reward more skilled use?

 

The only thing I can think of would be making it do as much damage as a standard melee, and just having it be more of a flashy version of it. Assuming the energy waves it appears to give off have an aoe larger than what a standard melee would offer, I could see it being used over melee without making it redundant. Other than that idea, I'm at a loss for making "ground pound" work while staying relevant, unfortunately.

 

Are you thinking for custom games or are you thinking that different gametypes should allow for different spartan abilities without actually ever making players start off with different things?

 

 

Both, really. Not that DW and boarding bother me, but neither of them have options in customs to be turned off. I'm thinking that if they do return, they, along with other SA's should be toggleable (I know there was an option to disable certain seats of a vehicle, but none for boarding).

 

In terms of MM, I gave you the example of me not wanting to rely on thruster pack over strafing, and puting myself at a disadvantage every time I face grenades as a result. Like DW and boarding, I want these SA's to be balanced enough to the point where I can be well off enough without them, or to be able to use other, equivalent means to react to situations where other players generally would use them.

[Jazzii Man]

The only thing I can think of would be making it do as much damage as a standard melee, and just having it be more of a flashy version of it. Assuming the energy waves it appears to give off have an aoe larger than what a standard melee would offer, I could see it being used over melee without making it redundant. Other than that idea, I'm at a loss for making "ground pound" work while staying relevant, unfortunately.

I see what you mean but if the aoe is larger than that of a standard melee, then doesn't that still give it as much potential to cause players to hide and wait on higher parts of the maps just to use it?

Personally I think it would be better to make it so that from very low heights it only does as much as a standard melee, and from higher places it can be a one-hit kill. But make it so that you have to be very precise in order to get the benefits.

 

I think the thing that would make the difference in how much it causes players to camp on higher parts is the actual area of effectiveness. If it has a wide aoe then I imagne players could easily just take other player's shields down (without having to put much effort or thought into timing their fall) and then easily finish the encounter with a shot to the head before the enemy even has much of a chance to respond. Whereas if there is barely any wider damage done, then it would force people to be very precise in timing their fall and would mean that the alternative - which would be jumping down on the person while shooting them or whatever - still presents itself as one of the best options to go with.

 

Both, really. Not that DW and boarding bother me, but neither of them have options in customs to be turned off. I'm thinking that if they do return, they, along with other SA's should be toggleable (I know there was an option to disable certain seats of a vehicle, but none for boarding).

Yeah I agree. Would be nice to be able to turn them off in custom games. I think the more options there are in custom games, the better.

[Coldfreeze]

what if the ground pound abillity had a downside. I mean sure from a relatively low altitude it could do no damage (great idea btw) But imagine a way to high fall, which drops your shield to zero, basically you are ramming your self into the ground and we all know that getting smashed into a wall in Halo could drop your shield or kill you instantly.

 

I honestly can not think of any new spartan abilities.

 

but didn't we see a spartan do a long jump in the beginning (sprinting and jumping)  I really hope for long jumps since Reach, just imagine running towards the edge and to hijack a banshee against all odds, I mean closest I got was in Reach on the spire, sprinting, jumping towards a jet pack player and assassinating him. we both fell down and miraculously surviving.

 

A spartan trusting to take cover for a sec and standing up? could be some kind of temp move to dodge, increasing the use of small and low covers, Halo 5 could get incredibly fast paced.