Another Message to 343 Industries

[Temper]

Honestly. It's an opinion. Why you try to pass it off as fact, I don't know.

 

You didn't even try to defend yourself.

 

You're just linking websites!!!

In 2015, why buy the new Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War, or Destiny game when you can just have Halo 5 instead? Its all those games wrapped into one! Plus if you look really, really, REALLY close, you'll see a bit of Halo in there too!

 

Call of Halo: Destinyfields of Gearsfall Coming Winter 2015

[Surveillance]

How is that related?

 

You're not making any sense.

[Temper]

"Hey guys, today we're playing Basketball with a football and traveling is now allowed. I mean, it's still basketball, we're just innovating a little bit"

 

"So guys, in todays soccer match any player is allowed to pick up the ball and carry it in their hands. We felt that every other sport was doing it, so it's time we evolved. Don't worry, it's still the same soccer you know and love, but we need to evolve."

 

[MCPO Mayh3m]

Alright time to step in... -puts on coat-

 

Staff Response
This topic is getting a bit out of hand. Please make sure that you are able to respond in a decent manner. If the posts continue on in the pattern they have been going lately, this topic will be locked.

 

[Temper]

Does sprint belong in Halo? Beyond: 83% No Halo WayPoint: 71% No r/halo: 69% No 3 different communities. Clearly biased & rigged. Clearly.

Alright time to step in... -puts on coat-

 

Staff Response
This topic is getting a bit out of hand. Please make sure that you are able to respond in a decent manner. If the posts continue on in the pattern they have been going lately, this topic will be locked.

 

Are you talking about people insulting each other or........?

[MCPO Mayh3m]

Does sprint belong in Halo? Beyond: 83% No Halo WayPoint: 71% No r/halo: 69% No 3 different communities. Clearly biased & rigged. Clearly.

Are you talking about people insulting each other or........?

 

Yes, and also the nature of the posts and how they are tempered towards other members. This warning is for all members posting in this topic.

[Temper]

Yes, and also the nature of the posts and how they are tempered towards other members. This warning is for all members posting in this topic.

I will not insult anyone and I will use better judgement when posting. Scouts honor 

[Twinreaper]

Does sprint belong in Halo? Beyond: 83% No Halo WayPoint: 71% No r/halo: 69% No 3 different communities. Clearly biased & rigged. Clearly.

Are you talking about people insulting each other or........?

 

Just to make this clear....can you state how many members participated in the poll?  Of those who participated, how many were the same person on a different site?  And that's three sites, and it only encompasses the data of people who actually hit the poll button.  Look at some of the polls on here.  The percentages that are for or against it never exceed an number of like 50-100 actually taking the poll.  So yeah if 10 people versus 2 or three people on each site take a poll. those numbers look gigantic, but in reality mean nothing.

 

Like I tried to explain to you earlier....YOU cannot gauge an accurate number or percentage of people who like or dislike something, unless you personally can account, and show the data by person.

 

Ad as others have already tried to point out as I have also....IT IS ALL OPINION!  Laws of Physics are facts, basic mathematics are facts, video proof is a fact.  Simply stating opinions does make it a fact that sprint does not belong in Halo.  That's an opinion, a preference of taste.

[Temper]

http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8637-halo-5-guardians-multiplayer-beta-poll/The other two I am trying to get from the CEO of Teambeyond because he is the one that posted those statistics.  

Just to make this clear....can you state how many members participated in the poll?  Of those who participated, how many were the same person on a different site?  And that's three sites, and it only encompasses the data of people who actually hit the poll button.  Look at some of the polls on here.  The percentages that are for or against it never exceed an number of like 50-100 actually taking the poll.  So yeah if 10 people versus 2 or three people on each site take a poll. those numbers look gigantic, but in reality mean nothing.

 

Like I tried to explain to you earlier....YOU cannot gauge an accurate number or percentage of people who like or dislike something, unless you personally can account, and show the data by person.

 

Ad as others have already tried to point out as I have also....IT IS ALL OPINION!  Laws of Physics are facts, basic mathematics are facts, video proof is a fact.  Simply stating opinions does make it a fact that sprint does not belong in Halo.  That's an opinion, a preference of taste.

I am also curious about what games you have developed?

[Twinreaper]

I develop add on content. Sounds, levels, render_models, animations etc. I lead a team that has released and developed add on extensions into Halo 2 PC. I have also worked on over a dozen applications that the Halo Communoty uses everyday for Modding, such as Opensauce and Entity.

 

Halo is not the only game I have worked on. I have also worked on games like Crysis, Battlefield, Quake, unreal Tourny, CoD, Doom and many others.

[Temper]

I develop add on content. Sounds, levels, render_models, animations etc. I lead a team that has released and developed add on extensions into Halo 2 PC. I have also worked on over a dozen applications that the Halo Communoty uses everyday for Modding, such as Opensauce and Entity.

 

Halo is not the only game I have worked on. I have also worked on games like Crysis, Battlefield, Quake, unreal Tourny, CoD, Doom and many others.

A lot of people have told me that unreal tourny was the best game that they have played, but unfortunately I never got the chance to play it.

[Coldfreeze]

 

A lot of people have told me that unreal tourny was the best game that they have played, but unfortunately I never got the chance to play it.

You should, it is a really good game. I think 2004 isn't that epxensive anymore, stay away from unreal tournament III

[RAI Callion]

Temper, if you've played Halo Reach, that was the first time anyone has seen the option to have the sprint ability with them, it is now unlimited but it also has it's fall back, you can not recharge your shields without stopping. Therefore you sir are completely wrong, I love the fact that Bungie added sprint before they left and gave 343i complete control over the Halo Universe. Who are we to tell 343i what to do? We're just those that buy the game and play it because it's fun. Sprint is needed for us to compete against CoD, but if you want to think about it this way, they had sprint, we had assassination's. Now we have sprint and assassinations, and CoD only has sprint and "knifing."

[Temper]

Temper, if you've played Halo Reach, that was the first time anyone has seen the option to have the sprint ability with them, it is now unlimited but it also has it's fall back, you can not recharge your shields without stopping. Therefore you sir are completely wrong, I love the fact that Bungie added sprint before they left and gave 343i complete control over the Halo Universe. Who are we to tell 343i what to do? We're just those that buy the game and play it because it's fun. Sprint is needed for us to compete against CoD, but if you want to think about it this way, they had sprint, we had assassination's. Now we have sprint and assassinations, and CoD only has sprint and "knifing."

Been playing since Fall of 2005 and know for a fact that I am not wrong.  Going back to teambeyond forums because there is too much fail with this post.

[Temper]

[wargod]

I stopped taking you seriously, when you tried to tell me I don't know what the difference between competitive and casual is, and linked a dumb Teambeyond site.  TeamBeyond is a site dedicated to just the people who are so uber Proz..omfg...... That site is not a complete culmination of opinions throughout the literally 100+ active Halo sites available on the internet.  Nice try trying to claim that some silly site has members that KNOW more about competitive gaming than anyone else anywhere on any site in the world.  I could literally claim to be the foremost expert in Astro Physics by copying and pasting stuff, or extensive talking about the subject, but it doesn't make it true.  That's YOUR opinion of the members of the site.

 

Again, you show no proof other than a failed attempt to say that sprint doesn't belong, which is completely opinion by the way, and YES it can be argued against or for it.  I can site, layout and explain a multitude of differences on how sprint DOESN'T break a map by showing you detailed 3dsmax views of the maps themselves, which I have done before many times here on this site.

 

As for your comments about quick scoping....a child can do it with one eye, I can do it with my toes....its a video game.  Pushing a button is not a skill.  If it is...your gonna do well as an elevator attendant in your near future.  And to touch on your Sabre Interactive and Certain Affinity comments....   Sabre did do the campaign remake for both CEA and H2A, but Certain Affinity did all the multiplayer map work for H2A, and they contribute mostly to the MM experience.  343 Industries has relied heavily on those two to help with the games.  And just for reference, the MCC does not have any "ported" maps.  All maps are running the same exact engine they ran back upon initial release.

 

This may be a huge shocker for you, because your a kid.  But there are other things in this world that make a population dwindle quickly.  For instance, here a few things that are greatly different now, than compared to 1999-2007  the times at which Halo 1-3 released.

 

1. Economy.  Things cost more, not everyone has the money for a new system, games or subscription services long term.

2. Job Market.  Again, no job no warez.  Jobs are more scarce than they were a decade ago.

3. Competition.  There are more titles to rival Halo now, then there were during Halo 1- 3.

4. Not everyone plays on Live.  I know that might shock you, but there are people who like to just play offline.

5. School/Real world   Times are changing bud, you HAVE to work and got to SCHOOL.  Parents may be lazier now yes in terms of how they handle their kids, but stuff is more expensive now...requiring work

 

And for the record, it is a widely popular opinion, that almost every site you COULD visit and gauge opinion from, WILL NOT be the opinion s of 100% individual players or the entire population.  Most people believe, including 343i and Microsoft, that most of then people whom take polls or participate in "hate/flame" threads about issues, are people who are mad or disagree with how or what is in a game.  beyond that, how can you accurately guarantee that each poll choice or thread reply is from a person WHOM IS NOT a member of another site under a different user name?  You can't.  Fact is, most players don't take the time to register on site and become actively involved, they instead spend their time simply playing the game and send feedback directly via Xbox.com reporting or other in-game tools.

 

Sprint is an OPINION, how it's used why it's used and whether it belongs along with other abilities is OPINION.  You have shown no concrete proof to back anything you claim to be a FACT.  But good try? Lolwut?  No really, good try....I was amused thoroughly by your reply.

 

Oh and real quick before I forget, like I said, console shooters are given a handicap to begin with.  try that quick scoping skill you claim to have on a PC lol.  And for the record, maps are not easy to make.  maybe you should spend some time learning how to craft a map from scratch, lay one out, compile it and test it, then tell me all maps are crappy.  I can validate my claim as to whether or not a map is lacking and why as I have developed over 100's directly in my time.  Playing a map and making one gives you an entirely different perspective and understanding on how and why a map was made the way it was.

 

There are several Halo players who post on the Team Beyond site that are the best players in the world.  This is not an opinion, it is a fact based on the results of tournament and LAN play over several years.  Because of this, their opinion as to what constitutes competitive halo is more valued that the opinion of a casual for obvious reasons.   That being said, 343 is a business to make money, but they are also liars.  They claimed that MCC would contain dedicated servers and that the "experience would be just like original halo, just as you remembered it."  Any sensible consumer isn't going to pre-order much less purchase Halo 5 simply based on the feedback that the halo community has given on MCC.  I can't even join a game where at least one of the people playing doesn't have a clan tag along the lines of: 

 

"343 ruined halo" or "343 killed halo" 

 

Since 343 didn't make the right decisions regarding MCC, it contains tons of bugs.  See halobugs.com

 

Also see:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/11/22/microsoft-is-losing-xbox-one-momentum-due-to-343s-halo-master-chief-collection-misdeeds/

 

So really at this juncture, caring whether or not halo 5 has sprint or doesn't is laughable at best.  Feel free to have an opinion that isn't shared by any sensible consumer.  Buy into the hype, get the game, or be wise and don't purchase games from a company that makes broken games.

 

Halo CE 13 years ago wasn't broken.   Incompetent companies of today can't even correctly port 13 year old technology, and I'm not even talking about the online aspect of it.  The port simply contains so many things wrong with it that was never an issue in the original game!

[Twinreaper]

As previously stated, your ability to dominate other players does not constitute nor does it give any leverage to making claims that you know the game better, or can say what shouldn't or should be included in a  game.  Games are media, recreation, and subject to each and every individual's interpretation.  Please don't try to push the aspect of "pro" off to the community as if your all more knowledgeable or more important than the next player.  That's both disrespectful and short sighted.

 

As for your Dedicated Server claims, perhaps you should take a few coarses on Information Network Administration as well as Server Management.  Everyone seems to think that a "Dedicated Server" solves all the problems with matchmaking.  A dedicated server is nothing more than one single server or "servers" in a cluster or network infrastructure, that only deals with the communication, information or file serving sharing of one particular aspect of the network or service/services.  Furthermore, depending on the network infrastructure and Front End used to run the server or service, THAT dictates how your connections are handled.  Also please be aware that just because the servers for MCC are on "Dedicated Machines", it is still part of an overall rather large network that utilizes Azure as it's serving platform.  Those servers are still passing and receiving information and connections that are being routed to them first.  To put it simply, there is no credible evidence in the IT aspect of gaming, that shows that dedicated servers are any more efficient or stable than standard "cloud" based serving or P2P Host based gaming.

 

Oh and by the way, Microsoft has been falling behind in the console war since launch.  343i alone has not hurt the Xbox One's sales any more than the horrid lineup Microsoft presented since the launch of XB1.  Even had 343i knocked MCC out of the park, bringing the previous Halo's to the newer platform does not automatically give Microsoft more sales and marketshare. Sony launched the PS4 correctly, Microsoft did not.  So now Sony wins the console war again similar to when the Xbox Gen 1 launched.

[wargod]

As previously stated, your ability to dominate other players does not constitute nor does it give any leverage to making claims that you know the game better, or can say what shouldn't or should be included in a  game.  Games are media, recreation, and subject to each and every individual's interpretation.  Please don't try to push the aspect of "pro" off to the community as if your all more knowledgeable or more important than the next player.  That's both disrespectful and short sighted.

 

As for your Dedicated Server claims, perhaps you should take a few coarses on Information Network Administration as well as Server Management.  Everyone seems to think that a "Dedicated Server" solves all the problems with matchmaking.  A dedicated server is nothing more than one single server or "servers" in a cluster or network infrastructure, that only deals with the communication, information or file serving sharing of one particular aspect of the network or service/services.  Furthermore, depending on the network infrastructure and Front End used to run the server or service, THAT dictates how your connections are handled.  Also please be aware that just because the servers for MCC are on "Dedicated Machines", it is still part of an overall rather large network that utilizes Azure as it's serving platform.  Those servers are still passing and receiving information and connections that are being routed to them first.  To put it simply, there is no credible evidence in the IT aspect of gaming, that shows that dedicated servers are any more efficient or stable than standard "cloud" based serving or P2P Host based gaming.

 

Oh and by the way, Microsoft has been falling behind in the console war since launch.  343i alone has not hurt the Xbox One's sales any more than the horrid lineup Microsoft presented since the launch of XB1.  Even had 343i knocked MCC out of the park, bringing the previous Halo's to the newer platform does not automatically give Microsoft more sales and marketshare. Sony launched the PS4 correctly, Microsoft did not.  So now Sony wins the console war again similar to when the Xbox Gen 1 launched.

 

I'll take the opinion of a halo pro player as to what should and should not be contained in halo game from a competitive standpoint over a casual any day of the week.  To NOT do so is very short sighted, because a pro player understands the game to a much greater extent than any casual ever will.  This is due to the fact that they have put in much more time into the game  and are PAID to play it.

 

Now as far as non competitive play is concerned, anyone can weigh in.

 

The term "dedicated servers" regardless of the technical explanation behind them, is marketed by gaming companies such as 343 to indicate that the connection and overall experience will be better, and that everyone would essentially be on an even playing field, with no one having a "host adv".   Instead of delivering on this selling point, 343 made halo MCC such that in matchmaking, one person is the host, and everyone else who is playing experiences more lag than the host.

 

Do you know what the current # of XB1's and PS4's sold post Christmas is?  Not that it matters because I'm not even sure how Microsoft vs PS4 is relevant to my statement of not buying games from broken companies like 343.

 

 

[Coldfreeze]

I'll take the opinion of a halo pro player as to what should and should not be contained in halo game from a competitive standpoint over a casual any day of the week.  To NOT do so is very short sighted, because a pro player understands the game to a much greater extent than any casual ever will.  This is due to the fact that they have put in much more time into the game  and are PAID to play it.

 

Now as far as non competitive play is concerned, anyone can weigh in.

 

The term "dedicated servers" regardless of the technical explanation behind them, is marketed by gaming companies such as 343 to indicate that the connection and overall experience will be better, and that everyone would essentially be on an even playing field, with no one having a "host adv".   Instead of delivering on this selling point, 343 made halo MCC such that in matchmaking, one person is the host, and everyone else who is playing experiences more lag than the host.

 

Do you know what the current # of XB1's and PS4's sold post Christmas is?  Not that it matters because I'm not even sure how Microsoft vs PS4 is relevant to my statement of not buying games from broken companies like 343.

 

I know the xbox one outsold the ps4 in November.  

Pro players are not the main audience for a game, they are a group to be considered, but for the few that "mastered" the game, a rather small group which holds no merits to the main audience.

 

343 is using dedicated servers since launch, as Twin explained dedicated servers alone do no solve problems, but  there is no host advantage, why hosts then? Because you need a host as measuring point for server stability and client to client measuring, the other reason could be that the  "old" games have not been build for dedicated server systems and they needed a workaround. For the rest the games are as similair as the originals

 

The reason Halo 5 runs better than the MCC, is that the game has been build for dedicated servers since development, trying to remodel games which are build for p2p networking, is a monumental task. Bringing apparently the problems which could not have been tested before hand.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Coldfreeze

[Twinreaper]

Its pointless to even attempt weighing in on this anymore. Noone seems to be able to keep track of what they post, and my response to it. Wargod, you posted a link in which the article clearly blames the MCC for the lack of Xbox marketshare.

 

And, competitive or not ANYONE who spends money on a product and uses said product either occassionally, excessively or otherwise, has every right to have their opinion or experience matter.

In no way shape or form was advertised that Dedicated Servers were going to be superior, nor was it infered as such. That is the misconception of the term as the general population percieves it. And for the record, Halo CE was a very broken game. No Halo outside of the 5 Beta had anything but P2P support incorporated into it's netcode outside Halo 2 PC and Halo PC. Local Access Netcode is a completely different seperate network model than online matchmaking.

 

As I stated before, I'm a developer myself. I understand the mechanics on a whole different level than the players. Just because I spend my time with the actual development aspect, does not in any way diminish, or negate my say in what I see or experience gameplay wise. You can take that high horse opinion if you wish, bit I do not agree.

 

And before you decide to flame again, I dont play anything Halo except CE and Halo 2, and I dont plan to buy an Xbox 360 or Xbox One.

[wargod]

There is clearly a host advantage in matchmaking, and I know when I have host instantly after the first few kills or so.  Also,not sure if you've seen this:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2q2609/master_chief_collection_community_bug_list_please/

 

Halo CE was not at all a broken game.  Halo CE on the original XBOX was never designed to be played online, only in a LAN setting. Thankfully, XBC enabled players to play online, but there was always a clear host advantage.   It's the product of a competent team of game developers like Hardy Lebel.  

 

http://www.hardylebel.com/2014/09/video-game-design_universal-truth/

 

Halo MCC on the other hand:

 

Bottom line is that the technology is 13 years old.  At this juncture, any competent developer like Hardy Lebel can take such an old game and make it playable online without so many problems, but this is 343 we are talking about here who chose to outsource MCC instead of focusing on it.  All they had to do was bring in the right consultants from the original bungie team and also feedback from Halo CE pros and we wouldn't be dealing with all these broken mechanics.

 

Instead, they gave us an unfinished game. 

 

 

[depressant]

It's not unfinished. The Campaign is complete, there's multiplayer, and much more. It simply has bugs. Do you think 343i thought MCC was going to have this many problems? Also, people who are "pro" at a game doesn't mean they know more about it. There's books about Halo that people, myself included, that read and can learn from them. A "pro" player just means that they're better than someone else. And wether sprint belongs in Halo or not is an OPINION. No matter how many people say that it doesn't, it's an opinion because it's not a solid idea like, "The sky is blue". I am not really bothered by sprint, after all, Spartans are supposed to be super-soldiers, so they should be ablr to run.

[Unease Peanut]

There is clearly a host advantage in matchmaking, and I know when I have host instantly after the first few kills or so.  Also,not sure if you've seen this:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2q2609/master_chief_collection_community_bug_list_please/

 

Halo CE was not at all a broken game.  Halo CE on the original XBOX was never designed to be played online, only in a LAN setting. Thankfully, XBC enabled players to play online, but there was always a clear host advantage.   It's the product of a competent team of game developers like Hardy Lebel.  

 

http://www.hardylebel.com/2014/09/video-game-design_universal-truth/

 

Halo MCC on the other hand:

 

Bottom line is that the technology is 13 years old.  At this juncture, any competent developer like Hardy Lebel can take such an old game and make it playable online without so many problems, but this is 343 we are talking about here who chose to outsource MCC instead of focusing on it.  All they had to do was bring in the right consultants from the original bungie team and also feedback from Halo CE pros and we wouldn't be dealing with all these broken mechanics.

 

Instead, they gave us an unfinished game. 

 

The hitreg has always been terrible in CE, host adv or not.

343i gave us the game as it shipped on its respective release date and people complained high and low about how broken the hitreg was in Halo CE and Halo 2.

343i had to go around fixing Bungies "features" to make the games more enjoyable.

 

If there's a host advantage then I've never been picked as host... In ALL of my games.

[Temper]

 

 

As previously stated, your ability to dominate other players does not constitute nor does it give any leverage to making claims that you know the game better, or can say what shouldn't or should be included in a  game.  Games are media, recreation, and subject to each and every individual's interpretation.  Please don't try to push the aspect of "pro" off to the community as if your all more knowledgeable or more important than the next player.  That's both disrespectful and short sighted.

 

As for your Dedicated Server claims, perhaps you should take a few coarses on Information Network Administration as well as Server Management.  Everyone seems to think that a "Dedicated Server" solves all the problems with matchmaking.  A dedicated server is nothing more than one single server or "servers" in a cluster or network infrastructure, that only deals with the communication, information or file serving sharing of one particular aspect of the network or service/services.  Furthermore, depending on the network infrastructure and Front End used to run the server or service, THAT dictates how your connections are handled.  Also please be aware that just because the servers for MCC are on "Dedicated Machines", it is still part of an overall rather large network that utilizes Azure as it's serving platform.  Those servers are still passing and receiving information and connections that are being routed to them first.  To put it simply, there is no credible evidence in the IT aspect of gaming, that shows that dedicated servers are any more efficient or stable than standard "cloud" based serving or P2P Host based gaming.

 

Oh and by the way, Microsoft has been falling behind in the console war since launch.  343i alone has not hurt the Xbox One's sales any more than the horrid lineup Microsoft presented since the launch of XB1.  Even had 343i knocked MCC out of the park, bringing the previous Halo's to the newer platform does not automatically give Microsoft more sales and marketshare. Sony launched the PS4 correctly, Microsoft did not.  So now Sony wins the console war again similar to when the Xbox Gen 1 launched.

 

As previously stated, your ability to dominate other players does not constitute nor does it give any leverage to making claims that you know the game better, or can say what shouldn't or should be included in a  game.  Games are media, recreation, and subject to each and every individual's interpretation.  Please don't try to push the aspect of "pro" off to the community as if your all more knowledgeable or more important than the next player.  That's both disrespectful and short sighted.

 

As for your Dedicated Server claims, perhaps you should take a few coarses on Information Network Administration as well as Server Management.  Everyone seems to think that a "Dedicated Server" solves all the problems with matchmaking.  A dedicated server is nothing more than one single server or "servers" in a cluster or network infrastructure, that only deals with the communication, information or file serving sharing of one particular aspect of the network or service/services.  Furthermore, depending on the network infrastructure and Front End used to run the server or service, THAT dictates how your connections are handled.  Also please be aware that just because the servers for MCC are on "Dedicated Machines", it is still part of an overall rather large network that utilizes Azure as it's serving platform.  Those servers are still passing and receiving information and connections that are being routed to them first.  To put it simply, there is no credible evidence in the IT aspect of gaming, that shows that dedicated servers are any more efficient or stable than standard "cloud" based serving or P2P Host based gaming.

 

Oh and by the way, Microsoft has been falling behind in the console war since launch.  343i alone has not hurt the Xbox One's sales any more than the horrid lineup Microsoft presented since the launch of XB1.  Even had 343i knocked MCC out of the park, bringing the previous Halo's to the newer platform does not automatically give Microsoft more sales and marketshare. Sony launched the PS4 correctly, Microsoft did not.  So now Sony wins the console war again similar to when the Xbox Gen 1 launched.

http://xboxclips.com/imSabbath/ab8bd084-2dd7-4598-8b74-49643424ef43

[Unease Peanut]

 

http://xboxclips.com/imSabbath/ab8bd084-2dd7-4598-8b74-49643424ef43

05a6b5ad67cf3162e6ba78eec0665d74.png

 

Did you even read what you quoted?