Net Neutrality Update!

[Pbrabbit]

Hey guys, Pb here. So in the gaming world today, we all love the people who have wonderful great internet connection. For those who don't...get yourself some better connection! But just on a topic of something outside gaming, but still very related, a court battle has been going on since 2010 was settled today over the internet! That's right! The internet! You might be saying to yourself, now why would someone be fighting over something in the public domain to do whatever they please? Well that actually was the topic of discussion! Here is some of what the article from CNN was saying: 

 

"So what happened exactly:

The FCC just granted itself the power to defeat a raging, fire-breathing monster: the monopolistic network owners who can kill Internet freedom by blocking websites -- or by creating an Internet fast lane for the privileged, few, rich tech companies that can pay for it.

But this monster is actually a phantom menace. Sure, in the past, telecoms have been bullies. Verizon blocked Google Wallet. AT&T blocked video chatting apps. Comcast slowed down file-sharing websites like BitTorrent. Rural telephone provider Madison River blocked Vonage's over-the-Internet phone calls. However, the FCC used existing rules to fix those problems.
The new rules essentially maintain the status quo. The Internet sure feels free today. It'll feel the same way tomorrow."

 

Basically, this Net Neutrality Act will not change much for the moment, and will not fully go into power till the Summer time, and many other things could take it away. But the important thing is, there are people willing to make the internet a free public domain, not being controlled and distributed to different people in different ways. Especially those who cannot even receive in certain parts of the US and the whole world as well!

 

Thanks!   

 

(Link to the Article Here)

[Twinreaper]

Your an idiot if you buy into any of this. The Net Neutrality Act is a smokescrean to allow the GOVERNMENT to act on and control internet service as a UTILITY. Do me a favor, next time why dont you dive into the 3,000 plus pages of the act, and ask China and Korea how Net Neutrality paid off for them.

 

This bill has nothing to do with equality and everything to do with control.

[Drizzy_Dan]

I agree that since the power is not in the hands of the cable companies it's more in the power of the government ultimately but really that's only by default. The government would be overlooking the Internet either way. Net Neutrality is simply a way to take power away from the cable companies so that we don't have to pay more for their services. What cable companies want to do without Net Neutrality is set up a tiered service so you could potentially be buying packages with them instead of getting the same Internet at the lowest price. What they wanted to do since people use their services for other things like Netflix and Hulu so much was to charge for using the Internet they provide so that you could use those services. I'm guessing the basic package would be mere browsing. Net Neutrality is actually a very good thing for consumers. 

[Twinreaper]

Again....you didnt read the bill at all did you? Guess its up to me to post the pages to educate dumb americans as uaual. Ughhhh.....

[BATMAN]

 

Again....you didnt read the bill at all did you? Guess its up to me to post the pages to educate dumb americans as uaual. Ughhhh.....

 

Please do. I see this act/bill thing as a threat due to my natural paranoia and would LOVE to understand what it REALLY means..

 

.. And let's face it, Twin.. You're probably the best person to do that.

[RedStarRocket91]

Staff Response
This is a very contentious topic, and one with a great deal of legal nuance and political content. We therefore remind all of our members to stay civil and calm during any discussion, and that personal attacks or flaming may lead to warning points.

[Twinreaper]

It appears my usual government file snagging websites and Library of Congress all do not have the full Bill available to view now, and only the public "watered down summary".....why I am NOT surprised.  I'm gonna check a few other well known document grabbing sites to see if i can secure the full bill's pages.

[BATMAN]

 

It appears my usual government file snagging websites and Library of Congress all do not have the full Bill available to view now, and only the public "watered down summary".....why I am NOT surprised. I'm gonna check a few other well known document grabbing sites to see if i can secure the full bill's pages.

 

Rock on Twin. Educate the forum

 

 

(In partial response to Rocket's post: I'm not being sarcastic, I legitimately want some knowledge stomped down on this.)

[Ash]

So the government will have power over the internet? Am I understanding this right?

 

So wouldn't they do what they do with everything else? And tax it?

[The Director]

I would prefer a government that we can bully into submission to control the internet than corporations that we cannot.

[Surveillance]

I really don't have the Western perspective on things. I have access to Government Internet (Not based on a single company). This whole thing seemed like it never would've affected me at all. It seemed like an American problem.

 

But I have the feeling that isn't the case, so if anyone could tell me how this affects me in Russia, I'd be eternally grateful. Because I don't know.

[Is not JL]

But I have the feeling that isn't the case, so if anyone could tell me how this affects me in Russia, I'd be eternally grateful. Because I don't know.

Web services from countries can now service consumers in the US without any issues; no blocking, no having to charge for 'entry', no being slowed down. Thusly, the next facebook, reddit, youtube, netflix or whatever will thrive in whatever environment, and potentially not the US.

[Twinreaper]

I would prefer a government that we can bully into submission to control the internet than corporations that we cannot.

 

Yeah, cause that works out great so far....

 

 

 

So the government will have power over the internet? Am I understanding this right?

 

So wouldn't they do what they do with everything else? And tax it?

 

 

Yes the Government has ultimate oversight of the Internet and it's providers because it is now considered a "utility". 

 

Calling something a utility, is basically classifying a service or good as "needed", or claiming it is a vital necessity.  Which is why the only utilities we see here in the US is power, water and gas.  Taxing it upfront or including taxing it in the bill directly was not defined.  But rest assured, now that the government can and will, expect a nice tax increase passed off to the ISP's, then to us.

 

 

 

I really don't have the Western perspective on things. I have access to Government Internet (Not based on a single company). This whole thing seemed like it never would've affected me at all. It seemed like an American problem.

 

But I have the feeling that isn't the case, so if anyone could tell me how this affects me in Russia, I'd be eternally grateful. Because I don't know.

 

 

The best way to explain this, is to have you look at Net Neutrality as a giant "Government Firewall".  The US Government can now request, demand and otherwise legally obtain usage and browsing information  about citizens.  ISP's used to be able to keep that stuff private against 3rd party persons and the judicial system.  Now, ISP's under Net neutrality are required to report usage information to the FCC.  Additionally, because the Internet is now a "utility", the Government can and will block whatever content they want, and the ISP's have no power to negate or refuse to do so.  So let's say Russia and US are having a bad rep week.  US can go right ahead and cut off major news, television or anything else going into or coming in from Russia on the US side.  Basically, the US can block you from reaching this forum.

 

Also just to let you know how serious this all is, the FCC chairman and ICANN were both asked to represent and provide their in-persons support for or against this bill, and neither came.  They both refused to take part in any form, allowing the bill to go through almost completely unchallenged.  This bill was also introduced into Congress back in 2006.  Why do you think it took nearly 10 years to finally go through, and we are just hearing about it now over major media?  Surely NOT because it's not harmful in any right?  I mean c'mon...if it were a good thing, it would have gone through 10 years ago right?  Wrong.  Bills like SOPA are exactly what this bill is meant to provide a workaround for.

Sorry, I worded that last part wrong. What I meant to say was, the FCC Chairman was ordered to appear in Congress to devulge and explain exactly was fully contained in the Net Neutrality Bill. Basically, not even Congress understood the contents. The FCC Chairman refused to appear altogether. So what resulted was, Congress passed a bill they didn't fully understand.

Also just a little backround infor as well. The United Kingdom, Russia, China, Korea and other smaller Russian-Europe cou tries already have "Net Neutrality" or like bills in place.

[The Director]

The fact of the matter is we are left with two choices and must choose what would be the lesser of two evils.

 

On one hand we allow major ISP's to continue in the way that they have, bullying site owners into paying them extra money for 'premium service' (which basically just guarantees that access to their site will not be throttled [see Verizon vs Netflix]) and bullying their customers (sometimes even literally [see Comcast customer service]) into paying more for less access. Before this issue arose in the public eye, Comcast and Time Warner Cable were actually considering adding restrictions to certain popular websites into their 'tiered' services. In other words, if you got the basic internet package it would allow you throttled access to sites like Tumblr or Facebook while if you got the full internet package you get unrestricted access to these sites. They already use internet service speeds to con people into buying cable that they probably won't watch and telephone services that aren't needed. Considering ISPs track record when listening to their customer base (see Comcast, Time Warner Cable, Centurylink, and Verizon customer service) it would be highly unlikely that anything could be done to convince these companies to make any sort of change. It's quite sad when the biggest victory against bad ISP customer service is getting a customer service agent who changes a customer's billing name to something obscene fired (which probably was because they wanted to avoid losing money in a lawsuit). Most of these companies have little to nothing in the way of competition so they do not feel compelled to make any sort of changes to their current ways.

 

On the other hand, we give the government the power of regulating the internet. At first, this sounds like the most horrible thing we can do, especially given their insistence over bills like SOPA and ACTA. Then the internet's previous victories over the government in the way that they approach the internet comes to mind. The fact of the matter is, our government (and the publicly elected officials that 'run' it) is far more willing to bend to our will than an ISP would be. If they resisted too much, then the fact that they did so would come out and they run the risk of losing their next election and thereby their job. The fact that the majority of the senate and congress were very much against any sort of Net Neutrality (some even calling it communistic) before they started receiving phone calls and emails from their voters speaks to this. The fact that senate and congress were overwhelmingly supportive of SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA before they started receiving phone calls and emails from their voters more than speaks to this, it confirms it. If they government (specifically the FCC) begins to abuse the power that we give it it would not be long before we took notice and action. Not to mention that if we play our cards right, we can introduce legislation that we want and force it to pass by bugging congressmen and senators and threatening their jobs.

 

 

Net Neutrality is not the ultimate victory that some make it out to be, true. It is however an important part in that victory. The 'battles' thus far have been customers versus companies, which in this particular case is close to being completely impossible to win. What has been done with net neutrality is that we've substituted an opponent that we cannot beat for a stronger opponent with a weakness that we can exploit. We've also drastically changed the battleground to our advantage.

 

[Twinreaper]

Right, cause government regulation is awesome. Internet is new Obamacare now. Good luck with that. Do me a favor....stop drinking the Kool-Aid. The government cares very little for us and the administration. If people spent less time swallowingnwhat major news and colleges are spooning out, and more time in the actual Library of Congress, you would be better informed and very much afraid.

 

I'll say it again....the FCC Chairman REFUSED to appear in front of congress to explain the true reach, purpose and lament terms of the bill they were voting. Majority Democrats voted blindly in favor of ot, spearheaded by the cirrwnt administration. Ask yourself, why would the writer of this bills provisions NOT want to explain to Congress and the public, what this bill really is? Oh right...cause it doesnt matter. If its voted and passed, it must be ok.

[Shun 'Kanamee]

I am not much into politics, but the problem I see with is that if given into the wrong hands (which I think has) it can be used to censor anything that criticizes a leader or a law.  

[Twinreaper]

Director, as for your "weaker opponent" theory, name one specific time we the people have been able to strongarm the government into our favor? Recent events prove otherwise. Obamacare, The Patriot Act, various frivolous wars fought under the guiest of freedom. We have no power at all! We bend to the governments will at every turn.

[The Director]

Director, as for your "weaker opponent" theory, name one specific time we the people have been able to strongarm the government into our favor? Recent events prove otherwise. Obamacare, The Patriot Act, various frivolous wars fought under the guiest of freedom. We have no power at all! We bend to the governments will at every turn.

Only one?

 

SOPA 

PIPA 

ACTA

The Draft

The Vietnam War 

Prohibition

[BATMAN]

We need a revolution... 'cause this is starting to scare me (not to mention remind me why I don't get into politics).

[Twinreaper]

First off those bills were not defeated because of us. It was ultimately the "big bad companies" you spoke of that you hate so much. Perhaps you did a little digging, you would find that it was them speaking up that got Congress to turn them down. Not our insignificant petition to do so. Vietnam was neither citizen or Unilateral support that stopped the war. Vietnam was a poor war fought for a frivolous reason that was nothing more than a form of population control. I worked with a vet of Vietnam, and trust me, public opinion and protest did not stop it.

[Ash]

We need a revolution... 'cause this is starting to scare me (not to mention remind me why I don't get into politics).

 

Hmm...

 

Burn down the government?

[BATMAN]

 

Hmm...

 

Burn down the government?

 

A sea of fire.

An ocean of flames.

[The Director]

First off those bills were not defeated because of us. It was ultimately the "big bad companies" you spoke of that you hate so much. Perhaps you did a little digging, you would find that it was them speaking up that got Congress to turn them down. Not our insignificant petition to do so. Vietnam was neither citizen or Unilateral support that stopped the war. Vietnam was a poor war fought for a frivolous reason that was nothing more than a form of population control. I worked with a vet of Vietnam, and trust me, public opinion and protest did not stop it.

Uh... huh...

 

Most of the companies against SOPA and PIPA were actually internet companies. Overall, probably worth a few hundred millions in campaign contributions. The largest companies against SOPA would be Microsoft, Facebook, and Google.

 

Most of the companies for SOPA and PIPA were multi-billion dollar companies such as Time Warner Cable, Comcast, Viacom, and even the American Bankers Association (considered the largest financial trade group in the United States). These companies were pulling out all the stops, which is why at first the bill had nearly unanimous approval from the politicians.

 

The turning point in the voting didn't come until widespread public disapproval began happening. This extremely weakened the SOPA Lobbyist's position and resulted in the bill being shelved. To claim that protesting did nothing to cause this is like saying that a bullet hitting someone in the head and their death is purely coincidental. 

 

 

As far as the Vietnam War, I have two relatives who served in Vietnam. One of which has passed, and the other I'm quite close to. He has PTSD, but even he believes the protests were what directly caused the end of the Vietnam war. But no, I'm sure you're right and that the massive protests were purely coincidental to Nixon announcing that he was going to begin pulling troops out of Vietnam in 1969. The announcement itself was just an appeasement, but when he ordered an attack against Cambodian commies in '70, more protests popped up (and four people were killed by the national guard) and he immediately announced that he would pull troops out of Cambodia within two months.

[Pbrabbit]

I just want to say that I am happy to have had this topic of debate be something on the forum. Thank you for everyone that has commented right now

[Twinreaper]

If we are going to judge the current leadership and compare our power to influence the government to that of 5 decades ago, then yes, in the past we have been able to make a difference. If you look at Administration beginning with Carter, you will see a blatant neglect for public opinion, and a lot of upfront lies to please the public into thinking that the government has their best interests in mind.

 

And now look at the current state of our situation. We have a President who has shown no regard for the Constitution and believes that ANY order he gives to ANYONE should be followed without question. Albeit man, woman, official or otherwise. There is no strongarming anything anymore. Fact is, without large companies to back public opinion, the bills for previous net control would not have been defeated.