The "Official" What do you want in the Halo 4 Ranking system.

[firelizard5040]

I actually, wouldn't have a problem with this, I kind of like it. It would appeal to both sides, and neither really conflicts with the other.

Good idea

i agree with you

[yah bono here]

the trick is is to reward individual feats, but also throw wins vs losses in their too. lets say that that you take reach's 4 credits for a kill, 6 for an assist, and take away 4 for dying; it is directly took out of kd plus other points thrown in for other feats.

[Herodanny]

Well said hero. Send me a new friend request and I will gladly accept. Sorry for pre-judging your motives...but I don't get on Live much and have many reservations about joining parties or chat. I hate my voice and don't even talk with members at all, outside maybe Mystic and Dog.

 

But yeah, I think you pose a great set of arguments aside form having any solid data to back it up. You do show a good understanding of basic Halo statistic data, and I would love to engage in further talks about it. i think if we perhaps worked together on creating a solid layout, we could both in terms of community, provide 343i a good well rounded look at how the current system they have, could be tweaked and changed in future titles to present a more "true Skill" system of balance. Good on yah mate!

 

Yeah I agree completely, I think I sent you one, but you declined it. My name is same on here as it is on xbox.

[Mr NOname]

Halo 2's ranking system made it one of the best online multiplayer experiences of all time. With these past few halo title releases, all after Halo 2, I have yet to experience another. None have come close to the competitivity displayed in Halo 2. I'm looking forward to Halo 4, hoping that it just may remaster the ranking system embedded in Halo 2. I'm all for a ranking system, if not exact, just maybe somewhere mildly close to that of Halo 2's very own.

 

Oh! And also of course, the return of the BR and all of it's meritorious capabilities! (Off-topic I know, sorry, I couldn't help myself!) tehehe!!

[Twinreaper]

The ranking system for Halo 2 was one of the worst. Sorry but is a fact, that it was flawed in the core engine coding department, and the API's used to relay, and interpret data correctly and applied to a "fair" scale of skill measure.

 

The skill system in halo 2 actually meant very little, when you factor in weapon abuse, like the infamous B-X-R combo that just about everyone with quick fingers would use, plus the group of real jar heads that would go out of the map and hack their way to level up with cheap tricks. Things of that nature helped a large majority of people move up in rank. How does that seem fair and a measure of true skill? Can you please elaborate more on why you think Halo 2's rank system was good, and please cite specific areas and data properties of the system please? I would hate to argument the topic based off opinion with no real basis for the opinion.

[Roronoa Larry]

I didn't have the chance to play at Halo 2 multyplayer since it wasn't supported in my country but from what i say in this thread neither that ranking system was right and from experience i believe nor is Halo3 and Reach. And that is because its completely unfair to rank up by winning or losing since many times you don't even know your teammates. Its true you have to play in team to win but you can't know the players the game finds for your team each time. Its also true that depending on your enemies if you are good you can sometimes win the game for your team alone but thats neither fair. So i completely agree with Twinreapers idea. Good job mr.Tech Guru

[Twinreaper]

Thanks for that larry. While it is true that all rank sstems deployed had flaws, they all also had their own high points, as in each brought something new or good to the party that is ranking. But having said that, I think my idea and layout, as well as Hero's views would make for a great system. In a nutshell, the system would force players to expand their gameplay to all areas of playlists in order to rank up in a steady flow depending on their performance, versus the tired old AFK, or playlist spamming that allowed people in H3 and Reach to reach highr ank numbers or titles.

[Roronoa Larry]

True. I hope 343 understands that and do something about it . Also mentioning AFKers you think it would be a good idea to replace them in midgame? Maybe with a separate playlist where you know that you'll join a game in progress (in a time that may change the game ofc, since there is no reason to join a game as soon as it ends and get a free loss :S).

[Scavenger]

While I think the H2 ranking system needs to be implemented, a CR/overall progression system needs to stay (IMO it needs major changes) to keep casual players playing.

[Twinreaper]

Aside from ranking up....I think they should introduce this nifty feature for competative players. I say we need a gambling system. We have all been in matches and people say things like, "Hey noob i could own you 1vs1 or a team of 2vs2" and so on. I say they make a custom game setting, where said people have to put up a wager, before the match begins. This would elliminate a lot of unessessary spamming of language and callouts, if one refused a private match with real consiquences. Also, I guess you could go one step further and have a betting system for othert gametypes. Like to bet on who will score the most FF points, or which team will win the CTF match. I say have a rwal time betting system. create a whole new genre of players based off those who troll the playlists and bet a whole lot.

 

As going with this, the credit system would only be good for new armor items or effects.

[FIREN4]

I didn't play Halo 2 Matchmaking. But based on what you guys said, I hear it must've been great!!

[firedune22]

I would like to point out though, what about the people wo just play to have fun? What about the team players who like to use supressive fire to keep the other team in check while another team member goes in for the cap or whatever? Your system might work fabulosly in a FFA game, but dosn't seek like it'll work for fostering relationships between team players who use strategy to win. It'll break your skill down perfectly, but won't match up those who will sacrifice themselves to distract enemies to go for the objective.

 

Perhaps you could limit the propsed system to slayer matches where these variables will make all the difference in forming teams.

For those who want a laid back match, let there be a social playlist too.

[Twinreaper]

Supressive fire could actually be translated by using the "shots hit" and k/d. Assuming one is of a defensive or supressing nature, their shots hit should be high, as well as their kill count be low and their death count even lower. I think one of the main things that need to happen to sort people of certain style out, is maybe have a feature in the lobby, that allows you to select the right "style" you play with. For example....

 

Lets say you go into the lobby for some CTF. Before hitting the button to begin searching, you are given a tick box in which you can select the following...

 

1. Aggressor (runs and guns into enemy territory for the flag)

2. Defensive End (hangs back at mid to start of map to provide defense against oncoming enemies

3. Wheelman (Great at vehicle driving and providing mobile assists to the team.

4. Strong Silent Type (expert in long range tactical wepaons to provide support)

5. havent got anything, feel free to add.

 

So basically, once you decide on what you want to do for the team, the system would then select players who selected the other catagories, and pair you up on a team. This way you have a full team who knows what they need to do, and have the chance to do it. Everyone wins I think?

[SixWaysToSunday]

I would like 3 ways to progress in Halo4:

-leveling: gaining experience by doing anything. Reach's system for casual gamers. Private - General (or whatever top is). Campaign, firefight, matchmaking, and forge can add to this. HOWEVER, armor is only unlock via challenges, like halo3. This way you earn your armor, instead of buying it like its a store (always thought that was stupid).

-ranking: 1-50 (or 1-100) symbol of skill by winning competitive games. Obviously for competitive players, Halo2+3 had it right and they loved it. Having a number represent how good you are really means something. Should it be copies of either Halo2 or 3? I dont know.

-rating: F-S playlist skill. Raise your rating by winning games in the competitive playlists. This was is halo3 and should be brought back.

 

The point is to quickly and concisely say what kind of player you are based on these 3 factors. You can see the difference between a 20 general and a 20 sergeant. And if you look at slayer, you can see the difference between a 30 colonel C and a 30 Captain C. Its fast, its easy, and its trendy. Even easy to put in a signature.

[Legiit]

Halo 3 System was good in my opinion, i spend hours herbing it out with my friends trying to get each of us closer to the almighty 50. Major grinding for one skill when winning more than losing however was not so cool. For example, playing doubles and winning 3 in a row, not going anywhere but we lose one game and we go down? IF there is some way around this such as the Halo 2 System but not so extreme on the 41-50 needing 6 straight wins or no rank up, if there was however a way for the game to notice your recent win/loss ratio and judge your next skill move on that the game would work so much better. Also the game must have the same thing suggested earlier such as the amount of EXP gained is determined by wins in a row, maxing out at say 5 maybe? Perhaps 5 is too high but I don't work at 343. Then this will urge me renew my Xbox days and cancel my subscription to World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic which I turned to in a frantic state of confusion as to why Bungie had ended their amazing line of games with something much worse than it's prequels. These are just the basics of the angle 343 Industries must head on if they are to succeed in holding everyone on their game and showing those Call of Duty lovers what franchise revolutionised FPS gaming.

 

Oh, plus none of this shambles of load-outs and COD friendly perky jetpack nonsense. Back to basics guys. No Sprint, no load-outs, bring in Active Camo, Overshields, and Custom Power ups again.

Just 2 Frags and a Battle Rifle.

Bring proper MLG back to Halo and, for that matter, back to the Xbox 360.

[Mr BigB]

Halo 3 System was good in my opinion, i spend hours herbing it out with my friends trying to get each of us closer to the almighty 50. Major grinding for one skill when winning more than losing however was not so cool. For example, playing doubles and winning 3 in a row, not going anywhere but we lose one game and we go down? IF there is some way around this such as the Halo 2 System but not so extreme on the 41-50 needing 6 straight wins or no rank up, if there was however a way for the game to notice your recent win/loss ratio and judge your next skill move on that the game would work so much better. Also the game must have the same thing suggested earlier such as the amount of EXP gained is determined by wins in a row, maxing out at say 5 maybe? Perhaps 5 is too high but I don't work at 343. Then this will urge me renew my Xbox days and cancel my subscription to World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic which I turned to in a frantic state of confusion as to why Bungie had ended their amazing line of games with something much worse than it's prequels. These are just the basics of the angle 343 Industries must head on if they are to succeed in holding everyone on their game and showing those Call of Duty lovers what franchise revolutionised FPS gaming.

 

Oh, plus none of this shambles of load-outs and COD friendly perky jetpack nonsense. Back to basics guys. No Sprint, no load-outs, bring in Active Camo, Overshields, and Custom Power ups again.

Just 2 Frags and a Battle Rifle.

Bring proper MLG back to Halo and, for that matter, back to the Xbox 360.

[Herodanny]

I didn't play Halo 2 Matchmaking. But based on what you guys said, I hear it must've been great!!

 

Think about a system that made sense, if you were level 30 most people (around 95%) played at your level. (assuming you had a difficult time leveling up and were a legit level 30). Not only that, but the community was amazing. I had some of the best times playing halo 2. Amazing game, halo 3 had a very hard to understand ranking system that constantly screwed players over. Halo reach didn't have a ranking system at all.

 

Halo 2, all the way. Ranking system, custom games, campaign, BXR, could go on forever.... <3

[Herodanny]

Halo 3 System was good in my opinion, i spend hours herbing it out with my friends trying to get each of us closer to the almighty 50. Major grinding for one skill when winning more than losing however was not so cool. For example, playing doubles and winning 3 in a row, not going anywhere but we lose one game and we go down? IF there is some way around this such as the Halo 2 System but not so extreme on the 41-50 needing 6 straight wins or no rank up, if there was however a way for the game to notice your recent win/loss ratio and judge your next skill move on that the game would work so much better. Also the game must have the same thing suggested earlier such as the amount of EXP gained is determined by wins in a row, maxing out at say 5 maybe? Perhaps 5 is too high but I don't work at 343. Then this will urge me renew my Xbox days and cancel my subscription to World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic which I turned to in a frantic state of confusion as to why Bungie had ended their amazing line of games with something much worse than it's prequels. These are just the basics of the angle 343 Industries must head on if they are to succeed in holding everyone on their game and showing those Call of Duty lovers what franchise revolutionised FPS gaming.

 

Oh, plus none of this shambles of load-outs and COD friendly perky jetpack nonsense. Back to basics guys. No Sprint, no load-outs, bring in Active Camo, Overshields, and Custom Power ups again.

Just 2 Frags and a Battle Rifle.

Bring proper MLG back to Halo and, for that matter, back to the Xbox 360.

 

I couldn't agree more. You are right in every way, I am motivated (even in halo 3) to get that next rank. I remember the amazing feeling it was when I saw that level 49 grow to 50. It was a self achievement that really made me proud, cause I really had to earn it.

 

Halo reach, there is no pride. You are an inheritor? So what? You played 5,000 Fire Fight games to get it.

Even though someone with a 100,000 kills and 10,000 deaths may feel proud of himself (for having an insane 10.00K/D) but it isn't accurate. That person could have played big team battle or some other social playlist that is just for fun and most people are relaxed. SO, Here's the question, how do you know somebody is good in halo reach? Well..... you really....don't...

 

Halo 2 (and a little bit of 3) represented skill. If you went into team doubles (in halo 3) and you were a level 47 trying to get 50, and on the other team were 2 players PLAYING on their 50 with over 5,000 EXP (etc.) You knew you were going to most likely lose.

 

Only problem with halo 3 was (as you mentioned) the constant randomness with ranking up, it made no sense and it was often frustrating. I have horror stories of trying to rank up (including winning over 30 games in a row and NOT ranking up). Halo 2 had it right, giving the players the ability to go online and seeing how far they are to the next rank.

 

 

Glad some people are on the same page with me

[Herodanny]

The ranking system for Halo 2 was one of the worst. Sorry but is a fact, that it was flawed in the core engine coding department, and the API's used to relay, and interpret data correctly and applied to a "fair" scale of skill measure.

 

The skill system in halo 2 actually meant very little, when you factor in weapon abuse, like the infamous B-X-R combo that just about everyone with quick fingers would use, plus the group of real jar heads that would go out of the map and hack their way to level up with cheap tricks. Things of that nature helped a large majority of people move up in rank. How does that seem fair and a measure of true skill? Can you please elaborate more on why you think Halo 2's rank system was good, and please cite specific areas and data properties of the system please? I would hate to argument the topic based off opinion with no real basis for the opinion.

 

Hey, I have one question for you, have you ever played halo 2?

I played over 2,000 hours of it (i know, no life)

The BXR was not easy to do. It was easy for PRO's but I never got owned by it a lot. I simply used to use it on noobs every now and then, it hardly ever was a game changer, most the time if I was facing off against someone who was terrible and I could BXR easily then I would win with or without BXR.

Also, getting out of the maps was annoying, however it wasn't often an issue. When you played MLG and you had a team of 4 you often would never allow an enemy to get out of the map.

 

Tech Guru, assuming you played halo 2, I am also going to assume you were a low level (sorry if I am wrong, i'm just going by what you are saying). You were probably below level 20 where people got away with that all the time. It works on the low levels when people don't know what they are doing. But against higher levels (like myself) it would never stand. I would always patrol the map taking control locking down weapon spawns, etc. If I even saw someone super bouncing then they were dead.

 

When you are playing competitively (word is rare in halo reach) then you are using teamwork. (It is very very hard to win 3 vs 4 when all players are equal in skill). So if one player decides to glitch out of the map then it means he is leaving his team, a 3 on 4. And whenever that happens the 3 loose and the 4 win, and they will get the sniper and kill the glitcher.

 

I am speaking from experience, I played at all levels of the game (noob, average player, semi pro) I know the game a lot more than you do. I don't blame you for no understanding, but you have to know, halo 2's ranking system was the best.

 

Btw, I played halo 2, halo 3, AND (believe it or not) halo reach Competitively, I know what I am talking about. Don't sell me so short.

[Twinreaper]

I am going to try to be as polite as possible about this. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW MORE ABOUT HALO 2 THAN ME!!! Think you do? Explain the map header size and structure. Explain to me the related functions of a [weap] tag and it's structure. Have you ever programmed a stat tracker using Halo 2's multilayer API source?

 

That aside, I was not a low level. The last level I achieved before dedicating my time to modding the gametoextend it's life was around 34. No I didnot play competative. I found more joy in creating extra play areas, new weapons,etc. Perhaps it is you who does not fully understand how the ranking system worked. I am fully aware of the statistical data it collected, how it relayed that data into "points", and how it distributed/negated your rank. It was flawed, argue it all you want, but code doesn't lie. Reach's methodology of ranking is a superior layout, but yes it is flawed as well. If Halo 2 had used it's system ranking with Reach's wide library or tracking, you would have a really good system for tracking skill. even then, there are somecore fundamentals that would have to be changed or altered.

 

Let's just all agree that there is no real winner when it comes to the best ranking system. A ranking system is only as good as the individual thinks it is,much like the playablility and success of a game itself. There will never be a perfect ranking system, someone or some community will always find something about it that doesn't work.

[Simmons]

BURN!

[Herodanny]

I am going to try to be as polite as possible about this. YOU WILL NEVER KNOW MORE ABOUT HALO 2 THAN ME!!! Think you do? Explain the map header size and structure. Explain to me the related functions of a [weap] tag and it's structure. Have you ever programmed a stat tracker using Halo 2's multilayer API source?

 

That aside, I was not a low level. The last level I achieved before dedicating my time to modding the gametoextend it's life was around 34. No I didnot play competative. I found more joy in creating extra play areas, new weapons,etc. Perhaps it is you who does not fully understand how the ranking system worked. I am fully aware of the statistical data it collected, how it relayed that data into "points", and how it distributed/negated your rank. It was flawed, argue it all you want, but code doesn't lie. Reach's methodology of ranking is a superior layout, but yes it is flawed as well. If Halo 2 had used it's system ranking with Reach's wide library or tracking, you would have a really good system for tracking skill. even then, there are somecore fundamentals that would have to be changed or altered.

 

Let's just all agree that there is no real winner when it comes to the best ranking system. A ranking system is only as good as the individual thinks it is,much like the playablility and success of a game itself. There will never be a perfect ranking system, someone or some community will always find something about it that doesn't work.

 

Ahh, I expected a response like that. Sorry for misjudging you on your skill. However when I looked at your bungie.net I didn't see any rank, I am assuming you did that on another account. However, I think you are lying, because you are contradicting yourself. You say you hate the BXR and getting out of the map because it got people to high ranks, however at the level 34 you should be able to handle yourself enough to stop people from doing these things (super bouncing) and if you can't then you don't deserve that level because level 34 was basically 50 in halo 2.

 

Now one last thing, WHAT DOES KNOWING HOW A GAME WAS BUILT DICTATE HOW WELL IT IS PLAYED?

 

If you know how pac man was created does that mean you can give an accurate understanding of how fun it is? No. You constantly hitting people down with your "tech guru" superiority complex is starting to get on my nerves. If you want to debate, then debate don't sit there and talk about how great you are. Cause your not.

[Twinreaper]

You were not asking me about how fun a game was, or how skill is applied. Your current gripe was with how I interpret or know how a ranking system works. I have supplied enough explination to support how I know these things. I know full well knowing how a game is built does not give one superior knowledge about in-game tactics. Point is, you were calling me out on technical sided issues, and I responded in kind. I will never try to say to anyone how good I am at a game. There is always someone better, and in the end being good at a game has no real world payoff for me. But knowing how things work and are programmed does. hence my direction in terms of knowing everything halo.

 

My "Tech guru" superiority you say? The title was given to me based on my working knowledge of the game engines. I use that knowledge to answer technical questions. At no time have I ever used that knowledge to try to say that I am a better player. Where do you come off posting this stuff? I am a well respected member of this community and others. If you have an issue with my knowledge of the game, then feel free to not look at what i post. Your comments and attitude are noted good sir.

[MasterxChiefx13]

FEAR THE REAPER!!!

[Herodanny]

You were not asking me about how fun a game was, or how skill is applied. Your current gripe was with how I interpret or know how a ranking system works. I have supplied enough explination to support how I know these things. I know full well knowing how a game is built does not give one superior knowledge about in-game tactics. Point is, you were calling me out on technical sided issues, and I responded in kind. I will never try to say to anyone how good I am at a game. There is always someone better, and in the end being good at a game has no real world payoff for me. But knowing how things work and are programmed does. hence my direction in terms of knowing everything halo.

 

My "Tech guru" superiority you say? The title was given to me based on my working knowledge of the game engines. I use that knowledge to answer technical questions. At no time have I ever used that knowledge to try to say that I am a better player. Where do you come off posting this stuff? I am a well respected member of this community and others. If you have an issue with my knowledge of the game, then feel free to not look at what i post. Your comments and attitude are noted good sir.

 

"Noted" ?

Are you an admin? If not, then that means nothing.

btw, I am not trying to start a flame war, it's just all this talking down to is a little annoying. I will admit you know more than me about how halo was made. I understand completely what you are talking about when you are talking about the ranking system (or service record if you will....) and it makes sense. However, in practice it doesn't work. I want to make one thing clear to you, "halo reach" does NOT have a ranking system. It doesn't because you cannot rank down, only up therefore there is no ranking system. Simple enough, yes?

 

How is halo 2 the worst by the way? Minus the BXR glitches and getting out of the map, let's just say that the halo 2 ranking system was implemented in halo reach. Then is it a good ranking system?

 

P.S- I understand the service record stuff (with K/D and W/L) They can have that, obviously it is a good idea because it shows you were not carried to your rank. However we are simply talking about ranking systems not service records, that's a whole different discussion.