Poll Ban Fails-Legitimate concerns on banning.

[Absolute Dog]

I have seen cases in this forum and others that clearly show the failure of the automated ban system. Here is a current case in point posted by a new member DethDale.

 

"I have been an active gamer for multiple years and pride myself in sportmanship and honesty in playing. Recently, my children became old enough to join the Halo family and I purchased a XBOX Live family account adding my two children and my wife to my account. To my disappointment, the ability to play Halo online with my family was quickly tarnished by a credit ban placed on all 4 of our accounts and my console. Apparently, my children and wife who are newer at the game and are still challenged at gaining kills appear as AFK according to the automated ban process used in the games. We even set the "skill" option to find players of comparable skiill to be turned on. My children were disheartened and my wife was frustrated. Even worse is that I received zero warning by XBOX, Bungie, Online or 343. I had no idea why it happened, and took hours of research to begin unravelling this issue. Please consider other variables to more accurately determine fraud on the system. My wife and children actively, move, shoot, change weapons, reload, throw grenades and other various actions that would certainly dictate them not as AFK. Please change this automated net, or we risk losing the future of young gamers if the difference between a novice player and one committing fraud is non distinguishable."

 

Gamer Tag : DethDale, DethLisa, DoubleBar, KJDethKids

 

Yet another story from Lexter:

 

Gamer Tag: Lexster905 - Ban = Temporarily Banned from earning Credits. This ban began on the evening of 19Jan2012, EST.

 

This is a new game for my 9 year old. She has been playing for ~ three weeks and is learning the game. She plays with her Aunt and a select group of experienced players who are online friends of my sister (her Aunt) for safety precautions. They play nightfall daily to help her learn the parameters of the game and advance her skills. Her Aunt says they "SPAWN" on her.

 

My daughter was very excited to learn the game and is now very dissapointed that she cannot earn credits along with everyone else. This temporary Ban has been going on for six days now. We have no idea why she was banned from earning credits or how long this ban will take.

 

I would hope that this will be resolved ASAP with an explanation of what the infingement was, if any, so that she can avoid it in the future.

 

As a consumer, I am highly unsatisfied with this type of unprofessional communication. I shouldn't have to guess why a game that I paid $50 dollars for is now limited for what I can see, is no violation at all. It would be a good business move to include the reason and the extent of "penalties" assessed. I purchased the Xbox and Xbox LIVE and Halo purely for the purpose of my child being able to connect wtih the group online which she has been playing with. Currently, I feel as if it was a waste of $600. I am hoping you can resolve my frustration and buyers remorse and turn it into a positive experience for all of us.

 

Looking forward to your reply,

 

Frustrated Consumer

 

I can list numerous more examples but........

 

These are a prime example of how the auto ban system fails the very players that were sought after by Microsoft and Bungie to play their hit games. Remember that, and I quote, "Microsoft spent more than $40 million marketing Halo 3.. The goal of the campaign was to sell more Xbox 360 consoles and widen the appeal of the game beyond the "Halo faithful" to casual as well as hardcore gamers." That info is generated by this article and referred to in Wikipedia under the "Release" topic, middle page.

 

The same held true for Reach, they desired and designed a game for the more casual player and though the marketing numbers were never released, as stated here, Reach was even supposed to be more user friendly to the casual player.

 

There are many young players, complete novices and just players who try to learn, but have no one to teach them the basics, that are constantly getting caught in the ban net. They were marketed to by the vary companies that sell the system, Gold Memberships and games and have now banned them from earning credits for being inexperienced. This could be your family, your friends, that are being punished for trying to learn a game and a controller that is completely foreign to them. We, most of us, take for granted our mastery of the controller and ability to move and kill in the game. It has become second nature to us.

 

Telling new players to play campaign or customs to learn is no answer when they have every right to play a game on a system they paid hundreds for and on a subscription whose annual fee is $60.00, or more for Family Packs, and a game that initially cost in excess of $60.00. The families, much like the one given as an example above, should be allowed to have fun online just like we do.

 

Offer any real and legitimate answers or opinions.

[Choot 'em]

I do believe an appeal process for bans is needed, especially in extreme cases such as the one listed above. They wanted to broaden the player base to the casual players, but want to penalize them for "appearing" to be AFK? Heck, a new player to the series or gaming in general may not even know what AFK means. If the auto-ban system automatically assumes that you are AFK because you fail to get any kills during a match, then I say it's flawed and needs to be tweaked. I for one have never been banned for any reason and I suppose it's because, like you said, I take for granted the ability to use the controller as second nature. However, if for some reason I would get banned, I would at least like to have the comfort of knowing I could appeal the ban if I thought the ban was unjustified.

 

Now of course by implementing an appeal process, your faced with another dilemma. How to determine legitimate cases from non-legitimate cases. Some players actually know why they were banned but would still want to waste someone's time with an appeal. Microsoft/XBL and the company that releases a game with a "ban" system would have to develop a system that could distinguish legitimate and non-legitimate cases. Maybe with a pre-application process that an individual or group could review to determine if the appeal could move forward to an actual appeal. I do realize this could be a costly process but considering the profits generated by one game, I believe it could be achieved.

[FIREN4]

They really need to fix this I agree. When I was new, I was credit-banned countless times by Bungie. From days to weeks to a month these things lasted. Until by that time I had gained my Halo skill after many deaths, K/D failure, and humiliation. And I became the Hero I am now today. 343i is different from Bungie, they need to listen to their fans and this forum. ( or at least most of it) I think they can regain most of their lost fans If they would remove or better some of their many flaws in gaming such as banning

[DethDale]

I feel that just as important as an appeal system, is a means to issue a warning and explanation to the offender. Additionally, it only seems reasonable to let the user know how long the ban is for and what can be done to prevent it from occurring again.

[RedStarRocket91]

There has to be a better way of telling if someone is AFK than just zero kills. I agree with you fully Absolute, nobody deserves to be punished just for being bad at something, especially when that something is incredibly expensive.

 

Appeal system has my full support!

[The Director]

There really should be a legitimate appeals system. Perhaps a group at Microsoft or 343i that's dedicating to the appeals. There should also be a forewarning, rather than an auto-ban. Possibly a three strike system that includes a message as to why and how long the ban (if it comes to that) will be. Then, the computer saves the data, including video, as it's "evidence" of the player cheating, and if the player appeals, then the group members can access this data and determine whether or not said player was or wasn't cheating. If it is determined that the player was cheating, then the ban would be increased (a warning of this will be in the message mentioned earlier) to prevent people constantly appealing their case just to annoy the group members, and if the player wasn't cheating, then a removal of the ban.

[Absolute Dog]

There really should be a legitimate appeals system. Perhaps a group at Microsoft or 343i that's dedicating to the appeals. There should also be a forewarning, rather than an auto-ban. Possibly a three strike system that includes a message as to why and how long the ban (if it comes to that) will be. Then, the computer saves the data, including video, as it's "evidence" of the player cheating, and if the player appeals, then the group members can access this data and determine whether or not said player was or wasn't cheating. If it is determined that the player was cheating, then the ban would be increased (a warning of this will be in the message mentioned earlier) to prevent people constantly appealing their case just to annoy the group members, and if the player wasn't cheating, then a removal of the ban.

You see! This is the answer right here! Thank guys.

[SixWaysToSunday]

Your right, this should not be happening at all. Sorry that your having to deal with this Dethdale. Is there any way we can help?

 

On a side note, I cannot understand why the credit ban was put in reach. Your rank does not show your skill, so why does it matter if someone is willing spend all of the time earning credits. Also, why would you bother banning AFK people, they obviously dont care about the game otherwise they would be playing it.

[its LilBeast]

Appeal options should be implicated whereever bans are no matter what, if there is going to be the option for being banned then there should be an appeal as well or else it becomes a 1 sided thing. For me i have been banned once due to "leveling up to fast", i find it to be a illegitimate reason to ban someone for the simple fact that their good, and able to level a lot quicker then the majority of people. For example, battlefield 3 it took me no longer then a weak to unlock all the guns for the normal game and the map pack as well as reaching the highest rank and then go 2 times past that. I've also been temp banned for leaving certain matches which i find to be absurd. Only time i ever leave a match is when there are glitchers and boosters, so bascially i get punished for refusing to play with cheaters. At that, i say good job at whoevers idea it was to implement the bans for leaving since it was such a failure of an idea.

[Lexster905]

I have seen cases in this forum and others that clearly show the failure of the automated ban system. Here is a current case in point posted by a new member DethDale.

 

"I have been an active gamer for multiple years and pride myself in sportmanship and honesty in playing. Recently, my children became old enough to join the Halo family and I purchased a XBOX Live family account adding my two children and my wife to my account. To my disappointment, the ability to play Halo online with my family was quickly tarnished by a credit ban placed on all 4 of our accounts and my console. Apparently, my children and wife who are newer at the game and are still challenged at gaining kills appear as AFK according to the automated ban process used in the games. We even set the "skill" option to find players of comparable skiill to be turned on. My children were disheartened and my wife was frustrated. Even worse is that I received zero warning by XBOX, Bungie, Online or 343. I had no idea why it happened, and took hours of research to begin unravelling this issue. Please consider other variables to more accurately determine fraud on the system. My wife and children actively, move, shoot, change weapons, reload, throw grenades and other various actions that would certainly dictate them not as AFK. Please change this automated net, or we risk losing the future of young gamers if the difference between a novice player and one committing fraud is non distinguishable."

 

Gamer Tag : DethDale, DethLisa, DoubleBar, KJDethKids

 

Yet another story from Lexter:

 

Gamer Tag: Lexster905 - Ban = Temporarily Banned from earning Credits. This ban began on the evening of 19Jan2012, EST.

 

This is a new game for my 9 year old. She has been playing for ~ three weeks and is learning the game. She plays with her Aunt and a select group of experienced players who are online friends of my sister (her Aunt) for safety precautions. They play nightfall daily to help her learn the parameters of the game and advance her skills. Her Aunt says they "SPAWN" on her.

 

My daughter was very excited to learn the game and is now very dissapointed that she cannot earn credits along with everyone else. This temporary Ban has been going on for six days now. We have no idea why she was banned from earning credits or how long this ban will take.

 

I would hope that this will be resolved ASAP with an explanation of what the infingement was, if any, so that she can avoid it in the future.

 

As a consumer, I am highly unsatisfied with this type of unprofessional communication. I shouldn't have to guess why a game that I paid $50 dollars for is now limited for what I can see, is no violation at all. It would be a good business move to include the reason and the extent of "penalties" assessed. I purchased the Xbox and Xbox LIVE and Halo purely for the purpose of my child being able to connect wtih the group online which she has been playing with. Currently, I feel as if it was a waste of $600. I am hoping you can resolve my frustration and buyers remorse and turn it into a positive experience for all of us.

 

Looking forward to your reply,

 

Frustrated Consumer

 

I can list numerous more examples but........

 

These are a prime example of how the auto ban system fails the very players that were sought after by Microsoft and Bungie to play their hit games. Remember that, and I quote, "Microsoft spent more than $40 million marketing Halo 3.. The goal of the campaign was to sell more Xbox 360 consoles and widen the appeal of the game beyond the "Halo faithful" to casual as well as hardcore gamers." That info is generated by this article and referred to in Wikipedia under the "Release" topic, middle page.

 

The same held true for Reach, they desired and designed a game for the more casual player and though the marketing numbers were never released, as stated here, Reach was even supposed to be more user friendly to the casual player.

 

There are many young players, complete novices and just players who try to learn, but have no one to teach them the basics, that are constantly getting caught in the ban net. They were marketed to by the vary companies that sell the system, Gold Memberships and games and have now banned them from earning credits for being inexperienced. This could be your family, your friends, that are being punished for trying to learn a game and a controller that is completely foreign to them. We, most of us, take for granted our mastery of the controller and ability to move and kill in the game. It has become second nature to us.

 

Telling new players to play campaign or customs to learn is no answer when they have every right to play a game on a system they paid hundreds for and on a subscription whose annual fee is $60.00, or more for Family Packs, and a game that initially cost in excess of $60.00. The families, much like the one given as an example above, should be allowed to have fun online just like we do.

 

Offer any real and legitimate answers or opinions.

[Lexster905]

Lexster905 - As of Thursday 26Jan2012, credit ban is still in effect. I am assuming that this means the ban is in effect for a minimum of two weeks as the end of one week would have been yesterday?

 

How in the world do we get this ban removed? I was considering buying a family pack, but, I am now thinking of never adding another penny to this company. Why would anyone pay for product which they couldn't use to it's full extent? Makes no sense at all!!!!

 

Still VERY FRUSTRATED Consumer!

[bobdole]

Me and my fiance are still credit banned it is thursday jan 26 and are gamer tags are bobdolestaint07, and hottie62458 and we still play but would like to reearn credits plz ty for ur time

[Absolute Dog]

Lexster905 - As of Thursday 26Jan2012, credit ban is still in effect. I am assuming that this means the ban is in effect for a minimum of two weeks as the end of one week would have been yesterday?

 

How in the world do we get this ban removed? I was considering buying a family pack, but, I am now thinking of never adding another penny to this company. Why would anyone pay for product which they couldn't use to it's full extent? Makes no sense at all!!!!

 

Still VERY FRUSTRATED Consumer!

Me and my fiance are still credit banned it is thursday jan 26 and are gamer tags are bobdolestaint07, and hottie62458 and we still play but would like to reearn credits plz ty for ur time

 

For both of you please understand a few things. One, we are unable to ban your accounts. This is a community forum. There is no legitimate appeal system for bans. Second, I personally have created this OP, or thread, to draw attention to cases just like yours of genuine and honest players who are being caught in a faceless and unfair automated ban system. I truly understand and feel your despair and anxiety.

 

I have only had one of my accounts banned before and it was a deliberate attempt by me to do so to draw attention to the failure of the system and loss of Bungie's interest in ranked play. Because of the sheer positive statistics of that account, my posts in their forum while they managed the game and what I was able to accomplish before the ban got me an invite to play and audience with an actual Bungie employee. Though there was no resolution to my concerns at that time, I respected the personal contact that I finally achieved.

 

This thread will stay pinned in any hopes to draw further attention to your concerns. Thank you for allowing me to use your stories to gain notice to this issue.

[bobdole]

ty absolute dog and this is my true storie behind everything sry about the other comment xbox live support made me made trowing me back and forth between bungie and them saying no one knows who controls halo at that time i finnally got to a suporviser who told me to come here and click of any thread u post personally and i am just hopeing that the resolve the problem with out dela lol but every1 have a great day ty

 

 

 

i have been a hard halo fan since halo and i like and have played everyhalo game short series and red vs blue anything with halo i love but i beleave that credit banning should not be on halo reach due to the future of halo fans my fiance just started playen and we have been banned from earning credits due to her sucking she no gets atleast 2 kills a game now and her top is 14 were as i get 15 plus my last game that i just played was me and her i got 41 kills she got 3 and the other 2 on r team left us but we won due to my past in halo i think that the credit ban should be removed bungie didnt have the credit ban in any halo game so y should 343 make the credit ban it just runs noobs off so if any1 sees this and approves of this statement then bare arms with me in this war on credit banning and who ever came up with the idea is maken halo look bad so thinks for this ur the kind of ppl that makes call of duty looks like a better game cuz they would never do this to there customers. and if we pay for somethen then shouldnt we get a say in what happens and if we dont then i want to buy stock in halo or 343 so i can have a say in what happens this is my opinion on things in the reach world and i would like for this to be fixed be4 a outbrake of this problem hits the server and perhaps make it fail to were it blocks ever halo user its happened to past games that ive played and i was lucky enoph to get my money back i think u all and plz just fix the problem in ur computers ty and have a great day.

 

my gamer tag is bobdolestaint07 and my fiances is hottie62458 ty and i really hope u resolve the problem and at least have the appeal process avalable ty for ur time

[andrew4052]

GUYS! GIRLS! ELITES! IMPORTANT!

 

The credit is necessary!

Here are some reasons why:

Obviously, people who idle.

People who are not skilled enough to get 1 kill in halo. Seriously, play campaign or firefight. Every time i had a friend over, we played campaign on heroic until they were good enough to get a kill.

People who just betray teammates.

 

Going back to my second point, seriously, the credit ban in only inserted if you don't get a kill for in 5 games, in about a day. Let's face it, have you ever had teammates who hadn't gotten a kill? Yes, and you lose because of that. You're basically ruining the game for your teammates. It's being selfish. And mean to them. If they don't know how to play, make them play a ton of campaign. Or play game modes like grifball, infection, or Splockets where it's easy to get kills! Don't play Invasion or BTB where people play to win.

About 3 or 4 times, I've been playing with my friends who have never even heard of halo before. (Note: they had never played on an Xbox or PS3 before either). We played a few games of campaign, and custom games, and in about an hour we were playing infection and or grifball. They would get about 15+ kills per game. Their first time playing!

 

ANd let's face it, if you get 0 kills for 5 games, think about your teammates. Especially if you're in a group of 3 and are playing with one random. It sucks. ANd really, if you're not good enough to get a kill, should you really be playing halo?

At the very least make them play swat or infection or grifball!

[Absolute Dog]

ANd let's face it, if you get 0 kills for 5 games, think about your teammates. Especially if you're in a group of 3 and are playing with one random. It sucks. ANd really, if you're not good enough to get a kill, should you really be playing halo?

Yeah, I guess player should not be allowed to enjoy the game they purchased. This is the reason Reach and the ban system has failed in a way. There is no legitimate ranked playlist and the auto ban catches new and novice players in it's grasp. This was never an issue in Halo 3 because of the separate playlist. The casual player could always have fun regardless of the amount of kills they got or did not get. The more experienced player always had another play list to go to.

[M4sT3r Ch13f S117]

I hate the credit ban but it makes sense in MOST situations.

[Kingsyco369]

Created an account just to tell my story.

 

A few months ago, my wife (queensyco369) was playing with her sister, who was a GUEST. The guest had never played a shooter before in her life, and thus got 0 kills. The whole console got banned, and of course, i had to go searching for answers. I found out that "AFKing" was a bannable offense, so i just took our undeserved punishment as it was only a day long ban. Whatever.

 

We had my neice (5 years old) and nephew (7 years old) over the other night, and he played matchmaking with me. He has halo 3, but no live, so of course he sucks at Reach matchmaking. I realized after a couple of games that we were probably going to get banned, so we quit and played custom games. About an hour later, I got the credit ban message in the middle of the game.

 

I wouldn't have any problem with getting banned for AFKing if they weren't on guest accounts both times. Guests can't earn credits, and thus have no reason to boost. My friend brought up the idea that people might log guests in just to kill them over and over, but we only played team games.

 

As for it not being "fair", that's rediculous. Everybody has to start somewhere. You were a noob once too, just like everybody else. My nephew would have been crushed if I didn't let him play. Is that fair?

 

I realize there are a lot of people lying about getting banned, but there needs to be a way to filter these people out.

 

Thanks for reading. My gamertag is kingsyco369 if anyone wants to check my recent games.

[Eskobar]

Second time I been banned now. First time in Full Party with 1 guest (achievements). 2nd ban I played 99% gruntpocalypse before the ban. I might have AFK'd (half the game) in one or 2 games in multiplayer. If I get reset before Inheritor I'm selling the game. Keep credits out of Halo4 please! And achievements out of multiplayer.

 

Unreasoned Ban: 2 Weeks - http://www.bungie.ne...kobar%20Returns Please revert ban to a 24hr.

[ticklesaaaq]

Eskobar, I got banned this morning too (for no apparent reason). My first ban and I got 2 weeks. SMH at the system.