Sword Block: Yay or Nay?

[RedStarRocket91]

I am pretty sure I named quite a few ways to counter the sword earlier in the thread, so feel free to look back and check those.

 

From the top of my head, the Sword can be countered by using Armor Abilities to stay out of range (as with Sprint, Evade, and Jetpack), confuse the wielder (Hologram and Active Camouflage), or just plain prevent the attack (Armor Lock and Drop Shield). It can also be countered by backpedalling and firing your weapon, moving to the right and jumping as the sword wielder lunges, throwing grenades in front of them to knock them backwards, using a weapon with high force like the Concussion Rifle, attacking at long range, sticking to open areas with long sight lines, and staying with a team which coordinates fire.

[FIREN4]

Really, it more realistic to block a plasma blade with your elbow and have it unscathed? Like blocking a lightsaber with your arm

Yes

[Hunterex12]

i wish u can block a plasma gernade

[cell_2004]

In a nut shell, Noobs do not like the sword block because they could not sword block themselves and when useing the sword, it is the only way for them to get many kills, with them being noob that is...

 

Not true? Well look up the stats of anyone who likes game changes that makes things easiers and 80% of the time it is a bad player that likes the changes.

TU, bad players like it, Pro players hate it....

Things in TU like no sword block are to give the noobs an even footing.

 

End of story....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the only good thing that came with TU is the nerf on armour lock, and I think we ALL can agree on that .

[CandiBunni]

In a nut shell, Noobs do not like the sword block because they could not sword block themselves and when useing the sword, it is the only way for them to get many kills, with them being noob that is...

 

Not true? Well look up the stats of anyone who likes game changes that makes things easiers and 80% of the time it is a bad player that likes the changes.

TU, bad players like it, Pro players hate it....

Things in TU like no sword block are to give the noobs an even footing.

 

End of story....

 

Well the only good thing that came with TU is the nerf on armour lock, and I think we ALL can agree on that .

 

No. We don't like sword block because there are already plenty of ways to counter the sword. There was no need to add sword block when you can counter it by keeping a distance, using the shotgun, concussion rifle, backstepping, and using armour lock. There are plenty of ways already to counter the sword. If someone manages to keep themselves alive long enough to get in close range to use the sword, they deserve the kill if they can land the blow. Do you have any actual proof to back up the claim that pro players hate the TU and "noobs" like it? No, you don't. I don't know if you've noticed, but MLG uses Zero Bloom. Are you going to call everyone who plays MLG a noob because of that? If you do, you're just being foolish. 85% bloom rewards pacing more than 100% did. This is a fact, and as soon as I can locate the study that I've read about it, I'll post it in this thread. It's taking a while to find it, so bear with me. How does the title update make things easier, hm? With vanilla Reach, you could land a headshot quicker than someone who paced simply by spamming. You didn't even have to aim anywhere near their head. With the TU, you now have to actually aim onto their head and pace your shots to get a headshot. If you try to spam while aiming at the head, you're going to miss.

 

No, we can't all agree on that. Every change made in the Title Update was for the better, and is how Reach should have played from the beginning.

[Teh Arbiter]

I should be able to split demons in half no matter what is in my path!

[M4sT3r Ch13f S117]

In my opinion They should have kept it. The sword battles in Halo3 were the best. They will always be Fun.

[Pope 138]

I feel like sword block is very unHalo. I don't mind parry.

[Pope 138]

Also, I remember getting really good at dodging sword lunges in H2. Very satisfying when it's your only defense and you pull it off..

[Ur mamma00]

I have to admit the first time i blocked a sword lunge i was like wtf? That was a new experience but can be very useful but also annoying. I never seem to get the timing right or they lunge across the room. It seems like sword blocking is random depending on how far the person is from u when they lunge. Probably also depends on what weapon ur wielding as they have different melee speeds

[Esteemed Vitamin]

I think the reason that the sword is viewed as overpowered (and not the shotgun) is because, when people see some guy with an energy sword running at them, they assume they are going to lose because all the sword guy has to do is get within range and be looking in the general direction of their target.

 

Other power weapons are slightly different. The guy with the rocket launcher usually has to jump first to get a better vantage point, and he also has to make sure none of his teammates are near where the rocket is going to hit. The guy with the sniper rifle usually loses at close range and is unscoped when shot at, and can also score betrayals by shooting teammates through enemies. Even the guy with the shotgun has to at least aim SLIGHTLY more than someone with the sword, and has to get in closer than the sword user does if they plan on getting a one-shot kill.

 

But all the sword guy has to do is get within range and look at his opponent. Sure, he got to the sword first and his team controlled it better than the other team. That took skill. But other than that, the only consequence the sword guy has to deal with is not being within range of his target. The actual combat aspect of the energy sword does not take as much skill as the other power weapons. But, at the same time, even though I voted for sword block to be back in the game, it was also overpowered. It pretty much canceled out the energy sword's job. It was also just as overpowered in a laggy game as the sword was.

 

The real reason the sword is overpowered is because of its "homing" melee lunge. If the reticule is red, you are guaranteed a kill, even if the opponent is not completely covering the reticule.

 

So, I came up with an alternative to sword block. What if the player lunged with the sword even if the reticule was not red? As in, pressing the trigger lunges the player regardless. And, the "homing" aspect of the lunge was removed, so that you actually have to lead the lunge in order to score the kill. It's basically like using any other weapon in Reach. The only difference is, it can be dodged at close range, unless the sword guy leads his lunge. It should also only cost 5% battery for a successful lunge.

To account for this, and to prevent people from lunging across the map just to get to power weapons quicker or to move faster while sprint or evade is recharging, the sword should overheat after lunging like other covenant weapons in between UNSUCCESSFUL lunges, and should also cost 10% battery if the lunge does not hit. That way, sword users are rewarded for scoring kills--the weapon doesn't overheat and they can continue for a double or triple kill (as long as they "aim" the sword). At the same time, if the lunge doesn't hit, they can't use the sword for like 1.5 seconds, and they lost twice as much sword ammo for spamming it. Plus, it would be possible to betray teammates with the sword, which makes it even harder to use effectively.

To account for infinite sword jumping, since lunging works mid-air, a sword user should only be allowed to lunge once while airborne.

 

It's probably a crappy idea, and is so different from any version of the energy sword that has ever been in Halo that it wouldn't work. But it's the best alternative to sword block I could come up with, and adds a lot more depth to CQC, without overpowering or nerfing the energy sword. It would be awesome if there was a "TU 2" playlist where swords were like that, but again...I realize this is probably the worst energy sword idea ever.

[Colossus]

People can still "own" with the sword despite the potential to be sword blocked, but it requires a little bit more strategy with flanking and using your environment. Plus it gives the blocker an opportunity to survive. Without the block option, a person who is running can really work the other players to a greater degree.

 

I say keep the block!

[RedStarRocket91]

@Esteemed Vitamin: first off, welcome to the forums!

 

As far as I'm aware, the reticule does have to have turned red for a lunge to connect, rather than the enemy just being in range. I agree that it doesn't really need a great deal of skill though, as even a poor player can still aim at something right in front of them and pull the trigger, but I think the risk involved makes up for that.

 

I'm not so sure about battery being depleted for missed attacks, if the sword user misses and then you kill them even though you beat them you're still being punished for their mistakes because of a lack of ammunition.

 

Losing battery is still an interesting idea though, even if I'm not sure it would work in the game. Perhaps an alternative would be that if a regular melee is used it depletes the battery less, as players should be rewarded for being able to get a kill without the homing lunge?

[Esteemed Vitamin]

Yeah, that sounds like a better idea. As of now, there isn't even a reason to use the sword's regular melee, so that would be a nice change.

[The Director]

Yeah, that sounds like a better idea. As of now, there isn't even a reason to use the sword's regular melee, so that would be a nice change.

In Halo 3 there was a reason to lol You melee'd faster than you lunged, for one, so killing multiple people standing nearby was faster. In Reach though, it takes about the same amount of time for both.

 

Another reason that sword block should stay removed is even if a sword guy gets the jump on a guy with the shotgun, with sword block the shotgun will always win. Sword block doesn't need to be added to the gameplay, the swords lunge just needs to be decreased a little. It isn't that difficult to defeat a sword. A well placed grenade, some spamming, or many other methods will work.

 

Also, the sword CAN be blocked multiple times (just friggin happened to me) which makes sword block even dumber.

[Ryunnz]

Sword block was ridiculous. The sword has never been over-powered. In fact, in Reach the sword lunge had been reduced in comparison to the other Halos, there was no need to make it any weaker via Sword Blocking.

You know I agree with you a little on how it seems sketchy... but it is still a very fair and balanced implication to halo. "But the sword has such short range!" Every map has confined areas to the swords advantage, and nothing is forcing you from leaving. Also, ready... you have TWO weapon slots!! use a assault rifle/dmr like you normally would, and if you see someone close on your radar... switch. And honestly... It's extreemly easy to throw someone off their timing on a sword-block, and even if they DO block you... Lunge again? or throw a grenade prior!! sword-block takes them down to just 3 bars!!! 1 little knick on their shields could tilt the scale in the swordmans favor!! Reach was made to balance all the weapons... and without swordblock... I don't know... (also if you want to test this w/me be my guest!! gamertag is ryunnz)

[Baby Boo]

I think both yay and nay for this one. I think sword block being removed from infection game types is unfair. It's part of how you survive as a human. However, in normal slayer gameplay, I think it is fair. Because like the OP said, in slayer you've worked to get that sword and you've worked to close the gap between you and your enemy to get the close quarters slice. So basically, I think there SHOULD be blocks allowed in infection and invasion variants, just not in slayer variants.

[McChicken343]

I think both yay and nay for this one. I think sword block being removed from infection game types is unfair. It's part of how you survive as a human. However, in normal slayer gameplay, I think it is fair. Because like the OP said, in slayer you've worked to get that sword and you've worked to close the gap between you and your enemy to get the close quarters slice. So basically, I think there SHOULD be blocks allowed in infection and invasion variants, just not in slayer variants.

It's already challenging enough to be a zombie. You die in one head shot, and you have a shotgun. If there's a huge crowd of people, It's near impossible to kill anyone.

[McChicken343]

I think both yay and nay for this one. I think sword block being removed from infection game types is unfair. It's part of how you survive as a human. However, in normal slayer gameplay, I think it is fair. Because like the OP said, in slayer you've worked to get that sword and you've worked to close the gap between you and your enemy to get the close quarters slice. So basically, I think there SHOULD be blocks allowed in infection and invasion variants, just not in slayer variants.

It's already challenging enough to be a zombie... A coordinated team can prevent anyone from being infected. Sword block just makes it worse

[Ryunnz]

It's already challenging enough to be a zombie... A coordinated team can prevent anyone from being infected. Sword block just makes it worse

Here's a thing... how about raise zombie health? Disable headshots? Take away humans sprint? There are many ways to rebalance infection matchmaking rather than the removal of a legitmate skill.

[Baby Boo]

^ that would slow the game down a lot. Infection without zombie headshots is like a spartan without his/her armor; useless.

[highplainsdrifter]

I hate to reply based on this but those three things are what make infection what it is; zombie health (they're supposed to be fairly resilient), headshots (self explanatory), human sprint (I'm not on a stroll). I'm not trying to doubleteam or be rude, Infection needs to play fast. Getting a sword kill as a zombie is supposed to be like scoring in a soccer or hockey game, getting a kill as a human should be like basketball. Remember, shooting the endless hoard of zombies wouldn't be fun if they were killing large fractions of your teammates in no time. I think sword block needs to be reestablished somewhere in the Infection playlist.

 

As for this whole thing about how easy it is to overcome a sword. I don't ever use the sword so I'm not even good with it and yet I score more points pound for pound with it than the SPNKR and my video gaming youth was 99% focused on Halo CE and largely spent developing strategy in rocket fights. The sword is not underpowered, it is not easy to kill a sword spreer who perfects the use of the weapon, there is no way you can make the argument that sword players deserve any quarter whatsoever because they don't plain and simply. The SPNKR holds a two round cartridge with limited resupply, the sword offers no user danger in an up close engagement, citing stats doesn't matter much because they're completely different and when the gameplay supports that the sword is superior to almost every power weapon in almost any situation.

Sorry, you know I love you guys, but in my opinion if you think barbers deserve respite, you've gone soft.

[CAVEMANcr]

Sword-blocking should be in every playlist except for grifball and living dead, where zombies don't have much chance to get points anyway. I am actually just finding out about this. For quite some time now i have approached sword carriers without caution, and i couldn't figure out why i wasn't able to block them. So frustrating!

 

For those saying you can't block the hammer, you also can't lunge with the hammer so its fair.

Everone check out my fileshare: 'Epic Bulltrue'

[CAVEMANcr]

Here's a thing... how about raise zombie health? Disable headshots? Take away humans sprint? There are many ways to rebalance infection matchmaking rather than the removal of a legitmate skill.

 

This would make the playlist worse than it already is. How about less ammo for humans and place ammo caches around the maps (in questionable areas) to discourage camping.

[FIREN4]

This would make the playlist worse than it already is. How about less ammo for humans and place ammo caches around the maps (in questionable areas) to discourage camping.

That could work, yes.