Is bloom a good mechanic?

[SixWaysToSunday]

Is bloom a good mechanic? Do you like bloom?

 

People feel really strongly about this mechanic, mainly because its one of the core parts of Reach. Often times people decided to stay or leave based off bloom alone because it touches almost every part of the game. So what is your opinion?

 

I really dont like bloom. I feel that it often cheats the players and favors randomness instead of skill. There are times when I kill someone and I know I did not deserve that kill, that my accuracy and pacing was crap but the random number generator decided to give me the kill. I hate that, nobody should get kills that they do not deserve. And thats why I think its a bad mechanic. No matter how good you are at controlling bloom, you cannot kill people fast enough to stop this from happening. My two best examples are the responses for why people left Reach, and the fact that MLG dropped bloom. If it is designed to give better plays a bigger advantage, then the best players, the MLG pros, should be the biggest supporters. Instead they completely got rid of it.

 

Now people like to say bloom has been in every halo game, that it went unnoticed because bungie did not bring attention to it and the reticle does not expand and theyre partly true. You can find a form of bloom in atleast one weapon in every game. But when you test it out you see it is very different from the bloom in Reach. One of the main reasons why its rather hidden is because the BR does not have it.

 

I tested for bloom yesterday with Heroicmime and we found a form of it, but only the AR had it. Even more strange is the fact that the bloom can kill people. We had each other stand outside the ARs reticle and almost killed each other. The spiker, SMG, carbine, and most importantly, BR do not have any bloom.

 

After testing it, I really think there the bloom should be two different types because they behave so differently. In the trilogy, its very difficult to find the bloom and it doesnt matter in most situations. Just pointing your weapon and pulling the trigger is enough to kill an enemy, they are designed to kill quickly and efficiently. Bloom only comes into play to limit one weapon, just as recoil is used to limit the power of the SMG. So I think this bloom should be called version1 or the "limiter bloom."

The second bloom in Reach is on every weapon and really dominates the game. In reach, pulling the trigger on most weapons will only get you a kill after a waste of bullets and time. The weapons are designed to be....well rather bad, they are inefficient, "fussy" and are really only capable of getting a single kill. Instead of everyone being capable of getting a kill it takes skill, which is really frustrating for new players. Instead of learning to strafe, aim, and control the situation, you really have to wrestle with the bloom of each weapon and learn how exactly to control it in every situation. So this bloom should be called version2 or "control bloom." And thats the one I dislike. To me it changes the core feel of halo and makes it not fun. If it was so random, had a rhythm, or was much weaker, then it would much easier to like it and reach.

 

So what do you think?

[Mr Biggles]

I don't like bloom anymore after playing ZB, with ZB, there is no luck element & it is always skill and positioning.

 

So ZB > Bloom, but, i hope they keep the DMR for halo 4.

[DaveAtStateFarm]

Eh,Bloom isn't my FAVORITE mechanic, but it does give people a chance to score some shots,sure it's unfair. I personally like ZB. Maybe because it helps me just play. I think it increases the flow of the game,instead of BOOM(pause)BOOM(pause) I miss having a very fast pistol that can actually shoot! Remember H2? BANG BANG BANG BANG,and it was fast,and accurate. Now we can experiance that again.

[SixWaysToSunday]

I don't like bloom anymore after playing ZB, with ZB, there is no luck element & it is always skill and positioning.

 

So ZB > Bloom, but, i hope they keep the DMR for halo 4.

 

Yeah, Halo4 needs a long range precision weapon. Big maps like sandtrap show that the there are no weapons for long range apart from the sniper rifle, so a DMR with a fire rate limiter instead of bloom would be a great addition. Maybe a forerunner revision if theres too many human weapons.

[Unease Peanut]

I'd like ZB. Increases the chance of skilled kills instead of lucky shots

[Machinga]

No bloom, grrrrr.

[RedStarRocket91]

At some point someone is inevitably going to point out that 'Bloom' refers only to the visual representation of a weapon's accuracy rather than how accurate it actually is, as if terminology somehow defeats the whole argument. So before I start, I'd like to make clear that 'Bloom' in this context refers to degradation of accuracy, not the size of the crosshair.

 

Someone will also probably claim at some point that Bloom has always been in Halo. No, it hasn't. The Assault Rifle and Pistol in Halo: CE suffered from Bloom when the trigger was held down, and that was it. The Assault Rifle in Halo 3 was not more likely to hit closer to the centre of the reticule the shorter you held down the trigger. A bullet from the SMG was completely random in where it hit in the crosshair regardless of whether it was firing its first ever round or the last of an entire of an entire burst. Same thing with the Carbine, the Spiker, the Plasma Rifle, and any other weapon you care to mention except the Battle Rifle.

 

With the Battle Rifle, the first bullet of each three-round burst would land EXACTLY in the middle of the crosshair. The other two would land randomly somewhere within the reticule. The second bullet would not be more likely to land closer to the centre than the third. They would not, however, land exactly in the centre. This is not governed by Bloom.

 

I personally don't like Bloom because I feel that it takes control away from the player. Yes, I know you can pace shots to reduce the level of Bloom. I don't buy it, though. If I pace my shots better than someone else, there is still a chance that their shots will hit me and I will be killed. Bloom doesn't mean that bullets are necessarily going to be less accurate: there's nothing that means when a reticule is fully expanded that shots are more likely to hit closer to the outside of the reticule than they are to the centre. In fact, you are exactly as likely to hit right on the edge as you are dead in the centre.

 

If I have an SMG, recognised as an inaccurate weapon, I can control the situation by closing to an effective range or swapping out my weapon for something more accurate. If I have a Plasma Rifle I can lead my shots. If I have a Battle Rifle, I can maximise my chances of killing an enemy by aiming first at the body and then the head. My weapon has a set accuracy and I know how likely it is to hit an enemy at a certain range.

 

Bloom takes my control away as I suddenly have to go by the laws of chance. Yes, I can pace my shots, but the other player might spam and kill me in five shots while I'm still lining up my third. In short, I dislike Bloom because pacing my shots doesn't mean I'll be more accurate, only that I'm more likely to be accurate. More of my shots probably will hit than my opponent, but it doesn't guarantee that they will.

 

Now, if Bloom had some sort of system whereby shots did not land completely randomly inside the reticule, and were more likely to land near the edges than the centre, that would be much more acceptable as spammers are much more likely to lose any given engagement. As is, it's too random and often rewards players who are less accurate and less trigger disciplined.

 

The Halo series claims to provide competitive gameplay, and introducing chance into combat weakens that claim. Now I'm not one of these morons who'll demand everyone should be incredibly competitive or should just go and play another game if they disagree with me. If you want to use a game to chill out and have a laugh, and you prefer having fun to a high k/d or TrueSkill score, that's great. But that doesn't mean a game shouldn't be competitive. If whether you win or lose comes down not to your own ability and that of your opponent but to a probability matrix, then any win you might have is cheapened, and any defeat doubly frustrating because you know if you repeated exactly the same fight on another day the outcome would be different.

[its LilBeast]

I'm neither against or with bloom because no matter which gametype i play TU or Normal i get the same effect with the DMR. But that is mainly because i have made myself control my shots and be precise with it so that i rarely have a problem. In fact unless i am in close range fights like (gth out of my face) i fire my assault rifle in bursts which of course is more effective imo.

 

So to be honest, i could careless if halo 4 has bloom or doesn't have bloom.

[SixWaysToSunday]

Someone will also probably claim at some point that Bloom has always been in Halo. No, it hasn't. The Assault Rifle and Pistol in Halo: CE suffered from Bloom when the trigger was held down, and that was it. The Assault Rifle in Halo 3 was not more likely to hit closer to the centre of the reticule the shorter you held down the trigger. A bullet from the SMG was completely random in where it hit in the crosshair regardless of whether it was firing its first ever round or the last of an entire of an entire burst. Same thing with the Carbine, the Spiker, the Plasma Rifle, and any other weapon you care to mention except the Battle Rifle.

 

I totally agree with what your saying. Just to let you known, the AR in Halo3 does have a form of bloom. After firing most of its clip on full auto, it will begin to land most bullets in a ring outside its reticle. I tested this with my friend Heroicmime, we stood outside of the crosshair and manage to damage and almost kill each other. Just letting you know if someone comes at you with that argument.

But I completely agree with what your saying and everything youve stated in your post.

[RedStarRocket91]

I thin that's actually down to bullet magnetism rather than Bloom, the former of which really has been in all automatic weapons in the Halo series.

[SixWaysToSunday]

Maybe for the killing ability, but we also tested it without a player target and it randomly hit around the reticle. If you want to see magnestism at its best use the Halo3 spiker next to someone. You can see how the bullets are grouped inside the reticle next to the target, its pretty cool.

[JHCRANE 14]

Is bloom a good mechanic? Do you like bloom?

 

People feel really strongly about this mechanic, mainly because its one of the core parts of Reach. Often times people decided to stay or leave based off bloom alone because it touches almost every part of the game. So what is your opinion?

 

I really dont like bloom. I feel that it often cheats the players and favors randomness instead of skill. There are times when I kill someone and I know I did not deserve that kill, that my accuracy and pacing was crap but the random number generator decided to give me the kill. I hate that, nobody should get kills that they do not deserve. And thats why I think its a bad mechanic. No matter how good you are at controlling bloom, you cannot kill people fast enough to stop this from happening. My two best examples are the responses for why people left Reach, and the fact that MLG dropped bloom. If it is designed to give better plays a bigger advantage, then the best players, the MLG pros, should be the biggest supporters. Instead they completely got rid of it.

 

Now people like to say bloom has been in every halo game, that it went unnoticed because bungie did not bring attention to it and the reticle does not expand and theyre partly true. You can find a form of bloom in atleast one weapon in every game. But when you test it out you see it is very different from the bloom in Reach. One of the main reasons why its rather hidden is because the BR does not have it.

 

I tested for bloom yesterday with Heroicmime and we found a form of it, but only the AR had it. Even more strange is the fact that the bloom can kill people. We had each other stand outside the ARs reticle and almost killed each other. The spiker, SMG, carbine, and most importantly, BR do not have any bloom.

 

After testing it, I really think there the bloom should be two different types because they behave so differently. In the trilogy, its very difficult to find the bloom and it doesnt matter in most situations. Just pointing your weapon and pulling the trigger is enough to kill an enemy, they are designed to kill quickly and efficiently. Bloom only comes into play to limit one weapon, just as recoil is used to limit the power of the SMG. So I think this bloom should be called version1 or the "limiter bloom."

The second bloom in Reach is on every weapon and really dominates the game. In reach, pulling the trigger on most weapons will only get you a kill after a waste of bullets and time. The weapons are designed to be....well rather bad, they are inefficient, "fussy" and are really only capable of getting a single kill. Instead of everyone being capable of getting a kill it takes skill, which is really frustrating for new players. Instead of learning to strafe, aim, and control the situation, you really have to wrestle with the bloom of each weapon and learn how exactly to control it in every situation. So this bloom should be called version2 or "control bloom." And thats the one I dislike. To me it changes the core feel of halo and makes it not fun. If it was so random, had a rhythm, or was much weaker, then it would much easier to like it and reach.

 

So what do you think?

 

Bloom doesn't bother me at all. I just look at it from a recoil point of view. All weapons have recoil so there for all weapons have bloom. Bloom makes it feel more like your really using a firearm. Without bloom and recoil it is just to easy to kill people holding down the trigger. There is not really any timing or pacing of shot. However, either way I could really care less. Bloom or no bloom it doesn't effect me that much.

[The Director]

With the Battle Rifle, the first bullet of each three-round burst would land EXACTLY in the middle of the crosshair. The other two would land randomly somewhere within the reticule. The second bullet would not be more likely to land closer to the centre than the third. They would not, however, land exactly in the centre. This is not governed by Bloom.

Wrong. The bullet rifle (while not NEARLY inaccurate as it's cousin the DMR) had a .015 chance for the first bullet not to hit your intended target, which an expanding variable for each of the following two bullets with the last bullet having little chance to hit inside the reticle. However, unlike the bullet spread in Halo Reach, EVERY pull of the trigger had the same chance to hit your intended target (.015 for the first bullet and an expanding variable for each of the following two bullets).

 

Do I like bloom? Yes. I like to know where my shots might land. Do I like the ridiculous bullet spread in Reach? No.

[RedStarRocket91]

The bullet rifle (while not NEARLY inaccurate as it's cousin the DMR) had a .015 chance for the first bullet not to hit your intended target

 

I assume you mean that the first bullet had a 1.5% chance to land somewhere other than the dead centre, right?

[SixWaysToSunday]

I assume you mean that the first bullet had a 15% chance to land somewhere other than the dead centre, right?

 

*ahem* .015= 1.5%

[RedStarRocket91]

...it's been a long time since I did maths. Thanks for pointing that out, it's fixed now!

[b0nez169]

I think bloom just slows the pace of the game... Its a new mechanic that isnt terrible just not the best... The problem is once you go bloom, you cant go back lmao

[HeroicMime]

It really depends for me. For Reach, 85 Bloom feels good, and 100 makes me want to choke a Grunt. I hardly play ZB, but the few times I do, I feel like it would be better if the movement speed were higher, since everybody's shots go exactly where they aim, a lot of the ZB games I've been in are like, if you're seen first you have an incredibly low chance of winning, but I chalk that up to Reach's slower movement speeds and whatnot. Testing the weapons in H3 was interesting, because I never noticed how extreme the bullet magnetism was on a lot of weapons, like Sunday mentioned, the spiker and AR.

[SixWaysToSunday]

Man I really thought people would want to comment on this since theres always fight in other threads about bloom.

[Son Of Anarchy]

Is bloom a good mechanic? Do you like bloom?

 

People feel really strongly about this mechanic, mainly because its one of the core parts of Reach. Often times people decided to stay or leave based off bloom alone because it touches almost every part of the game. So what is your opinion?

 

I really dont like bloom. I feel that it often cheats the players and favors randomness instead of skill. There are times when I kill someone and I know I did not deserve that kill, that my accuracy and pacing was crap but the random number generator decided to give me the kill. I hate that, nobody should get kills that they do not deserve. And thats why I think its a bad mechanic. No matter how good you are at controlling bloom, you cannot kill people fast enough to stop this from happening. My two best examples are the responses for why people left Reach, and the fact that MLG dropped bloom. If it is designed to give better plays a bigger advantage, then the best players, the MLG pros, should be the biggest supporters. Instead they completely got rid of it.

 

Now people like to say bloom has been in every halo game, that it went unnoticed because bungie did not bring attention to it and the reticle does not expand and theyre partly true. You can find a form of bloom in atleast one weapon in every game. But when you test it out you see it is very different from the bloom in Reach. One of the main reasons why its rather hidden is because the BR does not have it.

 

I tested for bloom yesterday with Heroicmime and we found a form of it, but only the AR had it. Even more strange is the fact that the bloom can kill people. We had each other stand outside the ARs reticle and almost killed each other. The spiker, SMG, carbine, and most importantly, BR do not have any bloom.

 

After testing it, I really think there the bloom should be two different types because they behave so differently. In the trilogy, its very difficult to find the bloom and it doesnt matter in most situations. Just pointing your weapon and pulling the trigger is enough to kill an enemy, they are designed to kill quickly and efficiently. Bloom only comes into play to limit one weapon, just as recoil is used to limit the power of the SMG. So I think this bloom should be called version1 or the "limiter bloom."

The second bloom in Reach is on every weapon and really dominates the game. In reach, pulling the trigger on most weapons will only get you a kill after a waste of bullets and time. The weapons are designed to be....well rather bad, they are inefficient, "fussy" and are really only capable of getting a single kill. Instead of everyone being capable of getting a kill it takes skill, which is really frustrating for new players. Instead of learning to strafe, aim, and control the situation, you really have to wrestle with the bloom of each weapon and learn how exactly to control it in every situation. So this bloom should be called version2 or "control bloom." And thats the one I dislike. To me it changes the core feel of halo and makes it not fun. If it was so random, had a rhythm, or was much weaker, then it would much easier to like it and reach.

 

So what do you think?

No sir, I do not like Bloom.

[highplainsdrifter]

Spread acceleration (which is what i'm going to call it) is on every weapon in CE that is in Reach, you can just see it now (bloom). Reach does have more bloom than CE though, but that's due to all the other methods you can use to kill. If there was less bloom the game would be unbalanced because all the other elements would be more or less useless. Seeing how the spread acceleration in Reach is pretty extreme, bloom it pretty useful. CE=less spread acceleration + less variables. Reach=more spread acceleration + more variables. Halo 4=spread acceleration x all other factors. There are ways of making lower spread acceleration work with more variables but Reach is essentially all that Halo 2 and 3 should have been online, Halo 4 isn't necessarily going to be Reach. Like CE and Reach Halo 4 should definitely have bloom because bloom helps you time your shots better, if you don't want to see how inaccurate you're getting maybe they can include a setting to turn of reticle changes.

[SixWaysToSunday]

Spread acceleration (which is what i'm going to call it) is on every weapon in CE that is in Reach, you can just see it now (bloom). Reach does have more bloom than CE though, but that's due to all the other methods you can use to kill. If there was less bloom the game would be unbalanced because all the other elements would be more or less useless. Seeing how the spread acceleration in Reach is pretty extreme, bloom it pretty useful. CE=less spread acceleration + less variables. Reach=more spread acceleration + more variables. Halo 4=spread acceleration x all other factors. There are ways of making lower spread acceleration work with more variables but Reach is essentially all that Halo 2 and 3 should have been online, Halo 4 isn't necessarily going to be Reach. Like CE and Reach Halo 4 should definitely have bloom because bloom helps you time your shots better, if you don't want to see how inaccurate you're getting maybe they can include a setting to turn of reticle changes.

 

First off, congratz on 100 posts

 

Okay on to bloom.

Bloom is one of the core mechanics of Reach, the game was built around it and almost every decision you make includes it. So comparing it to the bloom in other halo games, that only affect a few weapons, is strange and shouldnt really happen. They are inherently different and should be treated as such.

Bloom does not make you shoot better. Its a mechanic that is designed to make a weapon more inconsistent and inaccurate, whether it has a physical representation or not.

[VeteranOND]

How is bloom included in everything I do in a game? The only thing that bloom does for me is it makes go to the TU ZB playlist. Thats about it. I hate it.

 

And about the recoil...how is it a Spartan can hold his weapon perfect with no bloom adjusted while moving around but yet when he fires a single shot weapon, he "loses" some control of his weapon? Because that's what bloom/recoil indicates...your weapon is not completely indexed on target. Having shot many, many weapons systems with tons of training, Weapons Qualifications, Close Quarter Marksmenship, and Military Operations in Urban Terrain (kicking in doors), I have more control of my weapon in the brief moment after firing from a static poisition than I do when performing a tactical movement.

 

If anything, bloom should be applied while running around normally across a map. I know there is bloom after coming out of a sprint, but just moving around normally. Try it at home. If you have a shoulder weapon like an M4, M16, or a shotgun, try going outside and while walking, holding the sights directly on a target. Hell, try it standing still. Even with my training and knowing how to properly move and hold a weapon, its still impossible to stay completely on target.

 

So, towards the argument that bloom adds realism, not exactly.

[Fang]

Hate it

[highplainsdrifter]

So, towards the argument that bloom adds realism, not exactly.

this kind of messes with my argument but i think the Halo 2 carbine is more accurate when firing at full speed