Twinreaper Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I never dictated to anyone .....what nakes a.player better or.worse or anything of that nature before...so I am really hoping that wasnt directed at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixWaysToSunday Posted February 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Alright Twin why on earth are you getting angry? Because I have done nothing to you and your attacking me as a person and a player. That is totally uncalled for and has really pissed me off. However, Im not going to take your bait and sink to your level and will continue to talk about bloom or error angle or whatever other name the mechanic in Reach has. I stated in my OP that bloom has been in every game. Again, what Ive been trying to discus is that the Trilogy mechanic and Reach's are different versions that affect the game and players differently. I have a pretty good view point on the mechanic considering I make a point of playing with everyone from noob to Pro. I do my best to listen to how others feel about the game, then take my own experiences and make an informed opinion. And I have yet to see a sound argument that doesnt have serious holes about why reach's version should return. Now you can make that argument with good supporting evidence, or you can freak out again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highplainsdrifter Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) I never dictated to anyone .....what nakes a.player better or.worse or anything of that nature before...so I am really hoping that wasnt directed at me. I think Planet Etrius is agreeing with you, like high error acceleration throws in another level of difficulty to the game and having a perfect error angle (aka zero) wouldn't actually let the better players win all the time. On top of the fact that Halo 2 MM -> Halo 3 MM did nothing to advance the online Halo experience, and that Reach is a return to CE-esque MP. Alright Twin why on earth are you getting angry? Because I have done nothing to you and your attacking me as a person and a player. That is totally uncalled for and has really pissed me off. However, Im not going to take your bait and sink to your level and will continue to talk about bloom or error angle or whatever other name the mechanic in Reach has. I stated in my OP that bloom has been in every game. Again, what Ive been trying to discus is that the Trilogy mechanic and Reach's are different versions that affect the game and players differently. I have a pretty good view point on the mechanic considering I make a point of playing with everyone from noob to Pro. I do my best to listen to how others feel about the game, then take my own experiences and make an informed opinion. And I have yet to see a sound argument that doesnt have serious holes about why reach's version should return. Now you can make that argument with good supporting evidence, or you can freak out again. Twinreaper isn't really freaking out or getting angry, and you didn't really offer a rebuttal to what he said (which is basically a response to your wanting him to offer an argument, which he did so providing facts, numbers, and experience). No offense but you don't know who you're talking to. I like you, we've had some good debate but basically assuming someone is angry and stating you won't stoop to their level is pretty hypocritical as you just have reached that 'level'. Twinreaper is simply tired of seeing the same topics posted (no offense, recycling isn't necessarily a bad thing), explaining himself thoroughly, and then being told he has made no sense, logical argument, or effort to help you understand. Having a thread about a topic like this should be aimed at a discussion and not proving which viewpoint is better via putting someone on the spot to make an argument and cutting them down regardless of what they have said. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------edit sorry if that sounds harsh but seriously he knows what he's talking about and this is a community for communing Edited February 12, 2012 by highplainsdrifter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinreaper Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Sorry about that Sunday...I forgot that you were the OP here...my bad. That whole thing was not meant towards you. Again..sorry. But thank you for the feedback you got in there too Highplains. I guess I should have looked through who posted what better...but as High said, I get a little tired of the same threads over and over again. But to answer your question a little better, the Bloom Mechanic from Halo 1 to Halo 3 was relatively all the same settings from what I have found, and used the same mechanic. Reach yes however was the first title to come along and do away with random increases in error, and gave the player a set amount of increase. For better or worse, I guess it is all opinion. But I have found that many players who either don't notice bloom, or have no problem with it, seem to be more casual or fun gamers, as opposed to hardcore competitive types. Before I forget though, the reason why bloom in all previous titles before Reach seems much better, is because they all used a "projectile has parallel error" setting, which made each projectile mirror the other but either in a negative or positive position within the reticule. Reach however does not use this, and uses the un-calculated constraint for it. Again, I guess it all comes down to particular instances of battle. Some will feel good with the bloom, some will not. Give and take primarily. Also Sunday, if you are willing, I am compiling a private research file on how competitive players have reacted, how their play-style has changed and what particular in-game instances they have experienced where certain mechanics have failed them. I would love to get your input if you are on the competitive players out there. Your reactions and experiences may help me compile a good overview for everyone to see in the future. If you would still like for me to be the first to actually post a good argument about bloom and why Reach's should return......you wont get it. I never actually said anywhere that I like and want Reach's version. I agree with everyone else that the certain implimentation of it was wrong. I always simply stated that I adjusted well to it, or didn't even notice it at all. Personally I prefer the settings from Halo 2 the best, as it's the game I play the most.....sorta biast I guess huh? lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodanny Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is bloom a good mechanic? Do you like bloom? People feel really strongly about this mechanic, mainly because its one of the core parts of Reach. Often times people decided to stay or leave based off bloom alone because it touches almost every part of the game. So what is your opinion? I really dont like bloom. I feel that it often cheats the players and favors randomness instead of skill. There are times when I kill someone and I know I did not deserve that kill, that my accuracy and pacing was crap but the random number generator decided to give me the kill. I hate that, nobody should get kills that they do not deserve. And thats why I think its a bad mechanic. No matter how good you are at controlling bloom, you cannot kill people fast enough to stop this from happening. My two best examples are the responses for why people left Reach, and the fact that MLG dropped bloom. If it is designed to give better plays a bigger advantage, then the best players, the MLG pros, should be the biggest supporters. Instead they completely got rid of it. Now people like to say bloom has been in every halo game, that it went unnoticed because bungie did not bring attention to it and the reticle does not expand and theyre partly true. You can find a form of bloom in atleast one weapon in every game. But when you test it out you see it is very different from the bloom in Reach. One of the main reasons why its rather hidden is because the BR does not have it. I tested for bloom yesterday with Heroicmime and we found a form of it, but only the AR had it. Even more strange is the fact that the bloom can kill people. We had each other stand outside the ARs reticle and almost killed each other. The spiker, SMG, carbine, and most importantly, BR do not have any bloom. After testing it, I really think there the bloom should be two different types because they behave so differently. In the trilogy, its very difficult to find the bloom and it doesnt matter in most situations. Just pointing your weapon and pulling the trigger is enough to kill an enemy, they are designed to kill quickly and efficiently. Bloom only comes into play to limit one weapon, just as recoil is used to limit the power of the SMG. So I think this bloom should be called version1 or the "limiter bloom." The second bloom in Reach is on every weapon and really dominates the game. In reach, pulling the trigger on most weapons will only get you a kill after a waste of bullets and time. The weapons are designed to be....well rather bad, they are inefficient, "fussy" and are really only capable of getting a single kill. Instead of everyone being capable of getting a kill it takes skill, which is really frustrating for new players. Instead of learning to strafe, aim, and control the situation, you really have to wrestle with the bloom of each weapon and learn how exactly to control it in every situation. So this bloom should be called version2 or "control bloom." And thats the one I dislike. To me it changes the core feel of halo and makes it not fun. If it was so random, had a rhythm, or was much weaker, then it would much easier to like it and reach. So what do you think? Bloom is unconstitutional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixWaysToSunday Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry about that Sunday...I forgot that you were the OP here...my bad. That whole thing was not meant towards you. Again..sorry. But thank you for the feedback you got in there too Highplains. I guess I should have looked through who posted what better...but as High said, I get a little tired of the same threads over and over again. But to answer your question a little better, the Bloom Mechanic from Halo 1 to Halo 3 was relatively all the same settings from what I have found, and used the same mechanic. Reach yes however was the first title to come along and do away with random increases in error, and gave the player a set amount of increase. For better or worse, I guess it is all opinion. But I have found that many players who either don't notice bloom, or have no problem with it, seem to be more casual or fun gamers, as opposed to hardcore competitive types. Before I forget though, the reason why bloom in all previous titles before Reach seems much better, is because they all used a "projectile has parallel error" setting, which made each projectile mirror the other but either in a negative or positive position within the reticule. Reach however does not use this, and uses the un-calculated constraint for it. Again, I guess it all comes down to particular instances of battle. Some will feel good with the bloom, some will not. Give and take primarily. Also Sunday, if you are willing, I am compiling a private research file on how competitive players have reacted, how their play-style has changed and what particular in-game instances they have experienced where certain mechanics have failed them. I would love to get your input if you are on the competitive players out there. Your reactions and experiences may help me compile a good overview for everyone to see in the future. If you would still like for me to be the first to actually post a good argument about bloom and why Reach's should return......you wont get it. I never actually said anywhere that I like and want Reach's version. I agree with everyone else that the certain implimentation of it was wrong. I always simply stated that I adjusted well to it, or didn't even notice it at all. Personally I prefer the settings from Halo 2 the best, as it's the game I play the most.....sorta biast I guess huh? lmao Sorry Ive been away for so long, but thanks Twin. For some reason I saw you as the champion of bloom and thought you were for it. Dunno why though, sorry about that. Could you explain the "projectile has parallel error" alittle more? I dont quite grasp what its function is or how it affect the gameplay of the past halos. I too have found that casual players dont care about bloom and some dont even know its there. Alot of the guys I play with ask me what TU stands for >.< not saying their stupid, just that alot of players dont know whats going on under the hood for reach. Id love to help out your research but Im not good at reach at all. Everyone in the forums could probably destroy in a match, so yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinreaper Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well, the "parallel" thing is basically the engines way of producing an error projectile in the exact opposite tangent as the one previous. It is mostly used on weapons that feature a "scattering" shot like the shotgun. basically in a nut shell because of the limitations ot the engine itself with prectiles from halo 1 to 3, they had to come up with a way to recude a completely random series of projectiles. Without the parallel feature of the tag, you would ahve likely ended up with 3 or more shots being completely random or in line with eachother, then suddenly far waya from the target.....it's late and I hope this is coming out right. Anyway, the simple flag check in the weapons projectile system "parallel", ensures that things are not random and that they function in conjuction with other constarints properly. As for reach, I have yet to uncover every little tid bit of info involved, but as of late my dev console has died and I have decided to to start a new journey. A new title and new diretion. One that no longer invloves modding/decompiling/decrypting Halo tag and engine data. So unless in the future anyone has questions regarding past titles or just industry chatter/fact, I will be of no more use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixWaysToSunday Posted March 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Okay thanks, that really helps. I originally thought you meant that every weapon would have this mechanic and I could understand how that worked for BRs. But seeing as its used to reduce randomness in shotguns, it makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinreaper Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Yeah it helps a lot. It would suck to fire off a shotgun and have all the spread end up one one side or bypassing the target when aimjng....talk about raging on something like that! lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixWaysToSunday Posted March 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ive played games like that, its beyond unimaginable when you fire a shotty pointblank at someone and then they kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nd3mn3d 666 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 First to avoid confusion..... Bloom is terrible and it completely changed the way halo is played.... Halo 2 and 3 are always gonna be the best, halo 2 you didnt have to aim ahead or time recoil.... but halo 3 had it right. aiming ahead but no recoil was the best way to do it halo reach is the opposite. bloom was definitely a bad idea. but everyone remember this.. bungie never cared about us.... they did what they THOUGHT we wanted. all halo reach did was prove that bungie thought call of duty was doing something better so they decided to make halo adapt to it.... FAIL. At least 343 have things forums like this and they are actually involved in the community and will listen to us.... but if halo 4 turns out even worse than reach then i guess theyre just as bad as bungie in the end... SELLOUTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandiBunni Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 First to avoid confusion..... Bloom is terrible and it completely changed the way halo is played.... Halo 2 and 3 are always gonna be the best, halo 2 you didnt have to aim ahead or time recoil.... but halo 3 had it right. aiming ahead but no recoil was the best way to do it halo reach is the opposite. bloom was definitely a bad idea. but everyone remember this.. bungie never cared about us.... they did what they THOUGHT we wanted. all halo reach did was prove that bungie thought call of duty was doing something better so they decided to make halo adapt to it.... FAIL. At least 343 have things forums like this and they are actually involved in the community and will listen to us.... but if halo 4 turns out even worse than reach then i guess theyre just as bad as bungie in the end... SELLOUTS. Bloom has been in every single Halo title, just to let you know. The versions used in past games aren't the exact same as the version used in Reach, but every Halo FPS has used some form of bloom. Bungie never cared about us? Is that why they held community play dates, allowed us to play in betas for Halo 3 and Reach, updated Halo 2 and 3 with title and playlist updates based on what we wanted and/or asked for, held forge contests in Reach and added user made maps to matchmaking? All of that, and they never cared about us? Ha. Sure, buddy. No. They made Reach what they wanted. Whether they actually made it to compete with Call of Duty, we do not actually know. They made the game that they wanted, and they released it. It's as simple as that. Bungie has forums too, you know. Ever heard of Bungie.net? Sure it's devolved into a horrible, horrible place now, but I'm sure it was once a nice place to go. Bungie are not sellouts. Is making a game the way that they wanted selling out? Is doing all that I've listed above selling out? Is leaving Microsoft to become independent again selling out? The answer to all of those questions is a big, fat NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nd3mn3d 666 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Bloom has been in every single Halo title, just to let you know. The versions used in past games aren't the exact same as the version used in Reach, but every Halo FPS has used some form of bloom. Bungie never cared about us? Is that why they held community play dates, allowed us to play in betas for Halo 3 and Reach, updated Halo 2 and 3 with title and playlist updates based on what we wanted and/or asked for, held forge contests in Reach and added user made maps to matchmaking? All of that, and they never cared about us? Ha. Sure, buddy. No. They made Reach what they wanted. Whether they actually made it to compete with Call of Duty, we do not actually know. They made the game that they wanted, and they released it. It's as simple as that. Bungie has forums too, you know. Ever heard of Bungie.net? Sure it's devolved into a horrible, horrible place now, but I'm sure it was once a nice place to go. Bungie are not sellouts. Is making a game the way that they wanted selling out? Is doing all that I've listed above selling out? Is leaving Microsoft to become independent again selling out? The answer to all of those questions is a big, fat NO. they sold out by leaving an epic game series behind to make games for the company that produces call of duty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandiBunni Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 they sold out by leaving an epic game series behind to make games for the company that produces call of duty They didn't sell out. From what I heard, their contract with Microsoft ended and they chose not to renew it. Microsoft owned Halo since Halo: Combat Evolved. Bungie was close to becoming bankrupt and so they sold the rights to Halo to Microsoft so that they could stay afloat. They didn't go to make games for Activision. Activision simply gets to produce the games that Bungie releases. Bungie will still own any original IPs that they create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nd3mn3d 666 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 They didn't sell out. From what I heard, their contract with Microsoft ended, and they chose not to renew it. Microsoft owned Halo since Halo: Combat Evolved. They didn't go to make games for Activision. Activision simply gets to produce the games that Bungie releases. Bungie will still own any original IPs that they create. obviously but activision still pays them to do it. they left microsoft to make games on their own instead or "selling their souls" as they have put it... to be their own company but what do they do? go and join another company.... defeating the purpose of them seperating from microsoft in the 1st place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandiBunni Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 obviously but activision still pays them to do it. they left microsoft to make games on their own instead or "selling their souls" as they have put it... to be their own company but what do they do? go and join another company.... defeating the purpose of them seperating from microsoft in the 1st place They didn't go to join another company. Activision gets to publish their games that they release. That's it. They're not a part of Activision, they're still an independent company. They were under a lot of control over at Microsoft, and that's not the same situation as it is now with Activision publishing their titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.