Weapon Layouts..Likes and Dislikes??

[halowarsrules84]

1:

Im really interested in everyones opinion on the weapon layouts of the maps. Im a huge fan of halo 3 and the weapon layouts on the multiplayer maps is the only thing that frustrates me about Reach. I find that the weapon layouts are very weak and in my opinion,..its the thing that stops it from being a great game. To get right to the point,...when i play Reach i almost never find and pick up a weapon, where as Halo 3 my team and I would hord weapons, power drains, vehicles and set up traps to get our wins (which to me was the funnest part of Halo 3)

 

I understand Reach is supposed to be different from Halo 3, but i just played like 10 team slayer games straight and played all of them with the DMR, assult rifle, and pistol.

 

2:

I also find that because of this, there doenst seem to be the need for team strategy as much. You just pick a load out and run around with your DMR.

 

This isnt about bashing peoples opinion about the game, im merely suggesting that in halo 3 you need to have a team that works together more than in halo reach because of how important the weapons and vehicles were in the match, where as in reach, I feel that the weapon layout is much less important when it comes to winning or losing a match.

 

Im really interested in your opinion, but please serious responses only, stay on topic, and there is no need for hostile responses. Thank YOU

[Mr Biggles]

maybe you should just simply learn where all of the weapons spawn? and then go from there? because, part of the game is to find these weapons and use them effectively so you have the upper hand.

[Esorath]

I think the fact that one person could horde power weapons is a bad thing/bad weapon placement.

Weapons need to be spread evenly across the map.

 

That being said, the weapon placement in Reach IS weak. There is no risk/reward system for power weapons. All power weapons are placed in places that they can be used instantly rather than the player needing to take them to a place of use. As a rule of thumb, I think that power weapons should not be placed in a position of power. (of course there are exceptions to the rule, there are some weapon placed in the correct areas)

 

I personally think that Reach has a power weapon problem. A lot of the maps have a TON of power weapons on them.

Let us compare a Reach map to a H3 map really quick.

Sword Base - Construct.

Both Assymetric. Both of these maps are vertical based maps that use control of top/control of lifts.

Halo: Reach Sword Base has Sword/Shotgun/Sniper/Grenade Launcher.

Sword is in an enclosed room 2nd Floor. Shotgun is in an enclosed room 3rd Floor. Power weapons in a place they are instantly useful.

H3 Construct had Sniper/Laser/Sword.

Reach has more power weapons. That is a power weapon per player on a 4v4.

H3 has 3 power weapons spread out. Sniper is out on a ledge middle of the map. Risk

Sword is the back on the bridge out. Risk.

 

I hope that we can get more variants of the maps with better weapon layouts one day, but until that day, I'm sticking in double team/squad slayer.

[its LilBeast]

Esorath would like the idea that i put on my maps for the power weapons. For me i use 3-4 weapons and i have 3-4 teleporters, each one leads to a different weapon which is far from the others and you have 10 seconds to pick it up and leave. That way it stops people from camping in the rooms waiting on someone to come for the weapon.

[Tesseract]

I thing the weapon layouts are horrible. In Halo 3, there'd be BR's (Or whatever gun is defaulted on the map.) spread out everywhere so you can replenish ammo, or switch out guns you don't need. In Reach, ammo drains quickly, and it's harder to gain ammo or a DMR because they either spawn in a couple places, don't spawn at all, or you have to walk up to a dead body, which isn't always nearby.

[CandiBunni]

I personally haven't had any issue with weapon layouts in Reach. To me, there's not much of a problem.

[mzdangerpants78]

I also don't have a problem with the layouts. You just need to learn where they spawn.

[Absolute Dog]

I read Halowars and Esorath's opinions a few times, I had to only read Thesseract's once. Eso mentioned one person hoarding power weapons and I believe that is off the OP's mark. He stated the "team" hoarding the weapons, which has always been a legitimate and proven strategy. I think that the risk versus reward is there in most Reach maps.

 

Sword Base has open placement of the sniper and the grenade launcher and typically you are running to get them, then hustling away to survive long enough to use them. The sword, for where it spawns, rarely gets used in that area, and has to typically be carried across the map or up a lift for a close quarter engagement. The shotgun is the only weapon that's placement gives it ready use, but is in a room with three separate entrances. It is rare one team controls all power weapons on Sword Base in my experience. Sword Base has no direct comparison to Construct in my opinion. It is true there are four power weapons per map, you forgot the missile pod, besides which neither the laser or missile pod compare to the shot gun and grenade launcher. Construct is mostly a full open map where Sword Base's main fighting areas are more layered and covered. Regardless of load outs, Construct has 7 BR's were Sword Base has I believe 4 DMR's and 2 Spiker Rifles, and the placement of the rifles on Construct are more in the path of normal play were Sword Base's typically are not.

 

I do not find power weapon placement to be the problem of Reach, but more like Thesseract pointed out, it is the number of rifles on any given map, especially if it is an AR start, and the location of their spawn. Regarding team work, I play regularly with friends on both H3 and Reach, of late, and find that we communicate and coordinate attacks and point out threats just fine in either game. AA's have definitely changed the games strategies in Reach because you can now jet pack across large voids or three to four levels in height to a weapon or camp weapon spawns with invis, but again power weapon placement is not an issue to me.

[RedStarRocket91]

It's not all about risk/reward scenarios, it's also about getting an even balance between teams.

 

Here's an example. On 'Midship' in Halo 2, you had an Energy Sword and a Shotgun sitting in the open in the middle of the map, in an exposed position where anyone attacking the area was vulnerable to fire from all directions. This creates satisfying risk/reward levels. However, both weapons were an equal distance from each team - from the start of the game, both teams had exactly the same chance to get these weapons.

 

Another example is the Gravity Hammer on Halo 3's 'Guardian'. The area it was located featured long, open sight lines and could be attacked from above, again creating a satisfactory risk/reward situation. It was also equally accessible to both teams from the start - Red team wasn't more likely to get it because they initially spawned closer or because it was plalced somewhere they could get to more easily than Blue team. You get the same situation with the Rocket Launcher and Sniper Rifle on 'Sandtrap', the Ghost on 'Isolation', and the Energy Sword and Rocket Launcher on 'The Pit'.

 

Reach doesn't follow these rules. On 'Sword Base', for example, Red Team can get to the Grenade Launcher completely uncontested from the very start of the game, as well as having a much easier time getting hold of the Shotgun. On 'Reflection', Red Team gets the Sniper Rifle and the Energy Sword straight away and don't even have to fight for them, while Blue Team have to fight if they want to get the Rocket Launcher. One team automatically gets the Grenade Launcher on 'Uncaged' and 'Powerhouse', and of course the Rocket Launcher on 'Pinnacle'.

 

So in short, it's not only that some teams basically get uncontested access to power weapons, but that they often get different numbers of power weapons too. It's not right that one team gets two free game-changers while the other team only gets one, and it's not truly a fun competition a a result.

[Absolute Dog]

It's not all about risk/reward scenarios, it's also about getting an even balance between teams.

 

Here's an example. On 'Midship' in Halo 2, you had an Energy Sword and a Shotgun sitting in the open in the middle of the map, in an exposed position where anyone attacking the area was vulnerable to fire from all directions. This creates satisfying risk/reward levels. However, both weapons were an equal distance from each team - from the start of the game, both teams had exactly the same chance to get these weapons.

 

Another example is the Gravity Hammer on Halo 3's 'Guardian'. The area it was located featured long, open sight lines and could be attacked from above, again creating a satisfactory risk/reward situation. It was also equally accessible to both teams from the start - Red team wasn't more likely to get it because they initially spawned closer or because it was plalced somewhere they could get to more easily than Blue team. You get the same situation with the Rocket Launcher and Sniper Rifle on 'Sandtrap', the Ghost on 'Isolation', and the Energy Sword and Rocket Launcher on 'The Pit'.

 

Reach doesn't follow these rules. On 'Sword Base', for example, Red Team can get to the Grenade Launcher completely uncontested from the very start of the game, as well as having a much easier time getting hold of the Shotgun. On 'Reflection', Red Team gets the Sniper Rifle and the Energy Sword straight away and don't even have to fight for them, while Blue Team have to fight if they want to get the Rocket Launcher. One team automatically gets the Grenade Launcher on 'Uncaged' and 'Powerhouse', and of course the Rocket Launcher on 'Pinnacle'.

 

So in short, it's not only that some teams basically get uncontested access to power weapons, but that they often get different numbers of power weapons too. It's not right that one team gets two free game-changers while the other team only gets one, and it's not truly a fun competition a a result.

Hey Red Rocket, good morning to you!

 

Wanted to point out a few observations on your post. Midship (Heretic in 3) was a symmetrical map and therefore easier to place equal distance to all weapons from initial spawn. Guardian's Gravity Hammer was only equal in time to get to if Blue Team did a very risky jump from the elbow near bottom of Gold to the low bridge, compared to the nearest Red Team members initial spawn. Red Team also was spawning with in a short distance of the initially more dominant sniper and over shield, were blue had only the shotgun. In most cases Red could win the race to or be competitive to the invisibility. The additional point here is Midship, Sandtrap, Isolation and The Pit were all symmetrical maps.

 

Sword Base's grenade launcher has risk and is contested when Blue Team has an initial Jet Pack player, which reflects the "team work" aspect, and the sword is easily obtained by Blue Team, a much more dominant weapon, when combined with sprint, than the shotgun. Even though Red Teams initial spawn was closer to sniper, you either had to approach it with your back to the enemy or hold a strategic position to fight an oncoming Blue Team member. Sword Base is an Asymmetrical map, as is Powerhouse, and each have qualities in power weapon risk/reward as would Halo 3's High Ground, Cold Storage, Ghost Town and Orbital (Probably the best example of an asymmetrical map with mostly equal access to weapons). All of the maps may have seemingly unbalanced initial spawns to power weapons, but overall team strategy throughout a game could balance the playing field. Reflection (Ivory Towers of Halo 2) and Pinnacle (Ascension of Halo 2) both reflect the original maps weapon placement, both are asymmetrical and again team strategy throughout can level the playing field. Besides, on Reflection the Blue Team gets shotgun and whoever gets rockets need only to look up at sniper spawn as they back up and release a rocket at the lip of the out crop if he sees any threat.

 

So in short, there will be, as there always has been, asymmetrical maps that have seemingly initial imbalance to power weapon access. It has always been there in all games. The Armor Abilities in Reach, when used on maps like Sword Base, Powerhouse, Pinnacle and Reflection definitely help to balance the field better, and in the case of Pinnacle (Ascension) and Reflection (Ivory Tower) they "balance" the power weapon playing field more over the original play of the maps in Halo 2.

[twinkerdoodle]

I agree with you, and disagree. I loved the equipment in H3. It made a big impact on gameplay being able to drop someones shields in under a second, or popping into a bubble. Reach doesn't have that, and aside from a rocket there aren't many game changing weapons. I do not agree on the teamwork part. I believe that teamwork is still a large part of the game. If anything I find teamwork more important. Everybody is on a level playing field with the weapons as they are and numbers and smarts with the AA's are what can change the game.

[Archangel Tyrael]

I just dont like invasion on spire u get no dmr pick up on first objective but elites get needle rifles and sorry a pistol dont own a needle rifle from vantage points like that i havent played in awhile might have changed it idk.

[The Director]

The weapons placement in most of the maps are a bit of a problem. In many maps, blue team spawns with an advantage because they are closer to power weapons. In some maps, red team has the advantage because of the same reason. Reflection, Sword Base, Pinnacle, and a few others spawn teams ridiculously close to power weapons. In Reflection, the blue team can get the sniper and the sword first, and have a competitive shot at the shotgun and rockets. The red team has to haul it to shotgun and rockets to be able to nab them. If someone with any skill and a jetpack grabs the sniper, they can usually pick of the red guys going for the rockets. And the guy who grabs the sword can go up top and cover the sniper. With Sword Base, Blue Team spawns ridiculously close to the sword, and can easily get to the sniper or shotgun with a jetpack. See a pattern here? In both cases, Red Team has to grenade spam or get very lucky to get any power weapons. In Pinnacle, the blue team can jump down right after the spawn and go through the teleporter and grab the shotgun or sniper. There are only three power weapons ON Pinnacle, and blue team has immediate access to two of them right off the bat. The only centered power weapon on that map is the Rockets.

 

As far as the symmetry argument I saw earlier, Powerhouse is an asymmetrical map that doesn't give any power weapon advantages away during initial spawn. Both teams have equal runs to the main power weapons (Rockets and Gravhammer). It's not THAT hard to be able to place power weapons evenly on an asymmetrical map. Even a newb like me can do it pretty easily, and the guys who made those maps are supposed to be professionals.

 

And the last point, risk. For many of the maps it's easy to be able to grab power weapons, and there isn't much risk involved. When I used to play as a team in Halo 3, I used to hear "Someone's going for the (insert power weapon here)!" and we would all coordinate our fire on that area. Now half the time you can't even SEE when someone is going for a power weapon. The other half of the time players can literally use the power weapon they just picked up to great effect.

 

This is the main reason I play SWAT and Snipers. Not because I get owned all the time by unfair power weapon placement, but because I don't like getting cheap kills.

 

I have to whole-heartedly agree with the OP on this one.