TU melee, bleed through needs a nerf badly

[VERNLER]

The title update melee is beyond ridiculous. I tested it in a custom and you literally need only 5 AR rounds or 3 needles from the needler and you can then kill someone with a melee. It takes 3 DMR bullets to make somebody "meleeable" to kill. This bleed through nonsense needs a serious nerf. It was bad enough when people would just sprint and melee you twice, now all bks have to do is hold their trigger for .2 seconds and melee you. All that does is allow any 10 year old to kill people they have no business killing. I can see a melee killing someone if their shields are not totally down, but just really low. Your shield is at like 75% after you get ARed or needled for the above mentioned amount and you die from one melee? Comon there is no way this improves the gameplay of reach, just makes it easier for scrubs to get kills. Incredibly frustrating. The bloom reduction is great, the melee bleed through is fricking ridiculous. Change it, nerf it please for the love of everything good and holy.

[CandiBunni]

It solves the horrible problem that was the double melee. People would sprint up to someone who was shooting at them and melee them. The person could either melee back (which would be completely futile if their opponent's shields weren't down), or continue to shoot at them. Either way, more often then not the sprinter would end up just meleeing them twice for a cheap kill. Adding bleed-through has solved this problem, and I'm glad to see it return. I'm pretty sure your shields do need to be low for a melee to kill you. Three DMR shots seems like a good enough bit of damage to me for a melee to be a one hit kill. It only takes five shots to kill with the DMR, so I don't find anything wrong with it. With bleed through, plasma weapons are now actually useful. I find myself picking up the Plasma Repeater now instead of an AR, since it reduces shields quick enough for me to melee my opponent for a kill in close range situations. To me, the bleed-through seems fine the way it is. If they were to reduce the bleed-through damage, I only believe a small reduction would be necessary.

[Azaxx]

i dont mind it

[andrew4052]

A) If a guy is sprinting up to you and you're shooting. Maybe *gasp* melee him!

I completely agree. It's ridiculous.

C) It now takes 3 shots to kill someone. (Including melee)

 

 

And the people who disagree, are the ones who can't adapt to change.

And before someone yells at me and is like, "We're changing the melee system!"

No, we're REVERTING it back to Halo 3.

[CandiBunni]

A) If a guy is sprinting up to you and you're shooting. Maybe *gasp* melee him!

I completely agree. It's ridiculous.

C) It now takes 3 shots to kill someone. (Including melee)

 

 

And the people who disagree, are the ones who can't adapt to change.

And before someone yells at me and is like, "We're changing the melee system!"

No, we're REVERTING it back to Halo 3.

 

Excuse me? I can and have adapted to change. But you don't seem to get the actual problem with double melee. The person who sprints towards the shooter usually ends up meleeing first, so by the time the shooter's melee cools off from countering, the sprinter can already melee again for the kill. The only way for the shooter to really have a chance is to waste time shooting the spirinter as they're in close proximity and hope that their shields pop so that they can get a quick melee in before the sprinter has time to hit twice. Having bleed-through gets rid of the ridiculous double-melee situation. If someone wants to try sprinting at me to try killing me with two melees, they'd better be careful. Now instead of being able to get a cheap kill with little to no consequence, they're mostly just risking their own life. If they want to sprint towards me and attempt to just beat me down, they've got another thing coming. It's not going to work anymore. Implementing the system from previous games was a smart choice in my eyes, plus the AR is now useful! You know what's funny? Some of those, you included, who told others to adapt to change when Reach came out are the same ones complaining about the TU now. What's the problem? Can YOU not adapt to change? Yes, we're reverting the melee system back to Halo 3's style. Do you know why? Because it works better than the system implemented in vanilla Reach.

[RedStarRocket91]

You know what's funny? Some of those, you included, who told others to adapt to change when Reach came out are the same ones complaining about the TU now. What's the problem? Can YOU not adapt to change?

 

 

Darn you, Mystic. You always manage to say exactly what I'm thinking in a much better way than I ever could!

 

Anyway, I think there is a case for bleedthrough being a problem in its current form. It really is just too powerful, which was something I also felt was an issue in Halo 3. As is, if someone has even as much as a third of their shield remaining, a melee will still kill them instantly. The system might work a little better if overall melee damage was reduced to, say 65% - that way it's three melees to the kill on a fully shielded opponent, but a melee will only kill if shields are half a hit point from popping anyway. This stops it being disgustingly overpowered and still allows players to be killed through shields if they're already wounded, which would feel a lot fairer than the current system.

 

Just for reference, here's health and damage stats:

 

Spartans have 70 hit points in their Shield.

Spartans have 45 hit points in their Health.

Spartans do 70 hit points of damage with a melee.

A 65% melee strength means each hit does 45.5 points of damage.

[CandiBunni]

Darn you, Mystic. You always manage to say exactly what I'm thinking in a much better way than I ever could!

 

Anyway, I think there is a case for bleedthrough being a problem in its current form. It really is just too powerful, which was something I also felt was an issue in Halo 3. As is, if someone has even as much as a third of their shield remaining, a melee will still kill them instantly. The system might work a little better if overall melee damage was reduced to, say 65% - that way it's three melees to the kill on a fully shielded opponent, but a melee will only kill if shields are half a hit point from popping anyway. This stops it being disgustingly overpowered and still allows players to be killed through shields if they're already wounded, which would feel a lot fairer than the current system.

 

Just for reference, here's health and damage stats:

 

Spartans have 70 hit points in their Shield.

Spartans have 45 hit points in their Health.

Spartans do 70 hit points of damage with a melee.

A 65% melee strength means each hit does 45.5 points of damage.

 

Back before the TU, I really wished they had reduced the melee damage to 75 or 50%. It does seem a bit strong at times, so I would also like to see it decreased now. If we really want something like this changed, we should really be vocal about it though. They're not going to listen to just a few complaints about it here and there.

[RedStarRocket91]

Only thing is I'm not sure we even could get it changed now - it's a big alteration to gameplay and something of that size would probably be part of a second title update. I suppose it's worth a shot though, definitely won't happen if we aren't vocal!

[Red Death]

i dont see whats so bad about it

[Tesseract]

Thank god for Bleed-Through.

[The Director]

You know what bleed-through does? It keeps you from being a complete idiot and sprinting to an enemy for a cheap double melee. If the enemy is shooting at you, you should shoot back, not get closer so you can friggin PUNCH him. There may be a slight problem with the damage table for bleed-through at the moment, but the fact remains that it if you are close enough to an enemy that he can shoot and melee you, you should be able to kill him first. If he got the drop on you, that's YOUR fault. Look behind you, check your motion tracker, stay in areas where you can take cover if you need to. It's only a problem if you MAKE it a problem. There are far more important things for 343i to focus on than your little complaints about the "broken" bleed-through system.

[VERNLER]

You know what bleed-through does? It keeps you from being a complete idiot and sprinting to an enemy for a cheap double melee. If the enemy is shooting at you, you should shoot back, not get closer so you can friggin PUNCH him. There may be a slight problem with the damage table for bleed-through at the moment, but the fact remains that it if you are close enough to an enemy that he can shoot and melee you, you should be able to kill him first. If he got the drop on you, that's YOUR fault. Look behind you, check your motion tracker, stay in areas where you can take cover if you need to. It's only a problem if you MAKE it a problem. There are far more important things for 343i to focus on than your little complaints about the "broken" bleed-through system.

 

Ok the people who say they like the bleed through because it solved the double melee problem don't realize that all bleed through did was fix a problem and by doing so making a worse problem. Yes people don't double melee nearly as much but you know what every scrub with an AR does? They shoot you for .2 seconds and melee you, there is no way in hell that you can get off 3 dmr rounds AND a melee in the time it takes for them to fire 5 AR rounds and melee you. It also only takes THREE needles from the needler to make you one shot for a melee. That to me is completely ridiculous, after 5 rounds from the AR, 3 from the needler you're at like what 75% shields? So please tell me how ONE melee can eat through 75% shields and ALL of your health, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I wouldn't have a problem at all for melees killing you when you have low shields, I think that WOULD be a good thing because to me that's more in line with how shields should work, but 75% shields and ALL your health in one melee is just completely ridiculous. I also would like to know what the skill level and overall k'd is of people who like the bleed through, because from every single person who has a decent k'd (i.e. +30k, 2.0, or better) absolutely HATES the bleed through. Nearly every single time I see somebody's ToD as melee, they have an absolutely terrible, or at least negative k/d. Point is - yes bleed through solved the double melee problem to a large extent, however all it did was make melees worse because now it's even easier for scrubs with no DMR skills whatsoever to kill a highly skilled person in 1 second. I absolutely love everything else about the TU but the bleed through is the most garbage idea anyone has ever come up with, period.

[highplainsdrifter]

My k/d is something like .85, with my melee at .77

I don't really play competitively but to me the TU plays a lot more evenly than Vanilla Reach. This is your only problem with the TU, the melee system? Even if they went back to the original melee setting for Reach you still wouldn't get your melee in for the kill, as you say, because you haven't popped their shields (or have and you're too slow). So your opponent double melees you regardless. I'm sorry to say that changing the bleed through in yet another TU doesn't seem plausible at this point, as this one came out last fall and is still in the process of being integrated into playlists. But maybe, just maybe they'll now have 85% melee damage to go along with 85% bloom.

I think it works fine, then again i just like to play

[RedStarRocket91]

Vernler, just so you know all figures I'm quoting here are from Halopedian, so if you want to check what I'm saying is true then that's where to go.

 

Yes people don't double melee nearly as much but you know what every scrub with an AR does? They shoot you for .2 seconds and melee you, there is no way in hell that you can get off 3 dmr rounds AND a melee in the time it takes for them to fire 5 AR rounds and melee you.

 

The Assault Rifle is supposed to beat the DMR at melee range, it's a close-range weapon while the DMR is used over medium to long distances. The DMR isn't the only weapon you can use and frankly it was always more of a problem when Assault Rifle users couldn't kill DMR users at all. If you're using you weapon at its effective range you'll beat an opponent who isn't. You wouldn't complain about losing to a sniper at long range if you were using a Plasma Repeater, nor losing to a shotgunner at point blank range if you had a Needle Rifle. Use the correct weapon for each range effectively and you will beat your opponent every time. The game is less fun if there's one 'God Weapon' which defeats every other weapon at every range.

 

Also, it's not 0.2 seconds of fire, that's enough time for about one bullet. Considering it's 18 hits to a kill and you need to chew through more than half of someone's shield before a melee will kill them at full Health, you're looking at about 7 or 8 bullets before a melee will kill someone. Now I personally think that's too little, but it does at least make the Assault Rifle worth using.

 

It also only takes THREE needles from the needler to make you one shot for a melee. That to me is completely ridiculous, after 5 rounds from the AR, 3 from the needler you're at like what 75% shields? So please tell me how ONE melee can eat through 75% shields and ALL of your health, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I wouldn't have a problem at all for melees killing you when you have low shields, I think that WOULD be a good thing because to me that's more in line with how shields should work, but 75% shields and ALL your health in one melee is just completely ridiculous.

 

You have 70 hitpoints in your shield, 45 hitpoints in your health, and a melee does 70 hitpoints worth of damage. Therefore you have to knock someone's shields down by 45 points, or just over 64%, before a melee will kill. 36% is a lot less than 75%, even though I agree that someone who still has more than a third of their shields intact should probably survive a melee. It's not perfect, but I feel that making the Assault Rifle useful again is worth it.

 

In short, one melee can't and indeed doesn't 'eat through 75% of your shields and ALL of your health'. Needler damage is also probably too high but you can't hit anything with the Needler at point-blank range, so it's a whole other conversation.

 

I also would like to know what the skill level and overall k'd is of people who like the bleed through, because from every single person who has a decent k'd (i.e. +30k, 2.0, or better) absolutely HATES the bleed through. Nearly every single time I see somebody's ToD as melee, they have an absolutely terrible, or at least negative k/d.

 

First off, before you post something like this, link your gamertag. I can say I have a k/d of 7 but that doesn't make it true, and is kind of irrelevant to the argument. If I spent all game running around double-meleeing I would end up with a really high k/d ratio, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm a good player. Besides, if you're a good player you'll get used to it and still be able to beat other people, whereas if you only ever survive because you double-melee then you deserve to lose anyway.

 

This is a dumb argument anyway, as just because someone isn't very good at something doesn't mean they aren't allowed an opinion on it or are incapable of stating facts correctly. I couldn't create an AI script, but I can still tell it doesn't work if they start walking into walls and shooting at the floor.

 

Point is - yes bleed through solved the double melee problem to a large extent, however all it did was make melees worse because now it's even easier for scrubs with no DMR skills whatsoever to kill a highly skilled person in 1 second.

 

The DMR isn't the only weapon in the game. And if that person really is highly skilled they wouldn't allow themselves to get into a fight at a range where their weapon isn't effective, and then keep using it. If you're stupid enough to use the DMR at point-blank range then you deserve to get killed, like using a Shotgun to try and kill a Sniper from halfway across Hemorrhage.

 

Also, even if you think the Assault Rifle doesn't require skill you can't deny it has a lot of risk involved, and if you misjudge how strong a DMR user's Shield is, then they will have more than enough time to get three bullets and a melee off before your Assault Rifle's melee cooldown has reset. If you don't think that judging your opponents correctly is a sign of skilled play, and think that the ability to land a headshot with an incredibly strongly aim-assisted weapon is, then there's something very wrong with you.

[Unease Peanut]

I like bleed through iw was kinda wierd that only 1% of your shield could absorb a melee strike without even hurting you. Altough halo is not based on realism it is realistic