How the Betrayl and Team-Mate Damage system should work in Halo: 4.

[Archangel Tyrael]

First of all, when it comes to being betrayed most people do it just to go lolol, and do it around 2-3 times and get away with not being booted, and this is very annoying.

 

What i have in mind is, if you shoot your teammate insiting on betraying them, you should take the damage from what you have done to them, Rebounded damage. This would also help with noobs throwing grenades trying to help but just makes it worse, making people more skilled knowing when to throw grenade and shoot power weapons and etc.

 

Booting how many kills should it take for someone to get booted in a single game? 2. This is debateable i want to know everyones opinions about this.

[Katthejedi]

True!

[Vynledis]

That certainly isn't a bad suggestion at all. It would rid Matchmaking of idiots, certainly.

[Carts]

You cant teach a noob not to throw a nade when he shouldnt (ex: teammates are in melee range of enemie), the only resault would be the teammate getting a -1. I think the only cure for it is them learning not to do such things from other players. However, it would help in situations where a player tries to betray for a power weapon. So far I think they should maybe just remove friendly fire, would make the game less skilled oriented, but would reduce the ***hole moments.

 

Then again, if they include a ranking system players might care more about winning then things like K/D.

[Archangel Tyrael]

You cant teach a noob not to throw a nade when he shouldnt (ex: teammates are in melee range of enemie), the only resault would be the teammate getting a -1. I think the only cure for it is them learning not to do such things from other players. However, it would help in situations where a player tries to betray for a power weapon. So far I think they should maybe just remove friendly fire, would make the game less skilled oriented, but would reduce the ***hole moments.

 

Then again, if they include a ranking system players might care more about winning then things like K/D.

 

Yes, but when they throw the grenade and kill their team and themselves, and then get booted i don't think they will do it again, or often..lol. Halo needs to be skilled oriented and balanced, and to me this is the best system to deal with teamkillers. There will be problems but yeah best way in my opinion.

[DaveAtStateFarm]

I say completely remove friendly fire.

Unless in certain gametypes, use your system.

If you shoot someone, the same amount of damage happens to you.

[Constantly]

This would really suck for the guy sniping who's teammate runs directly in front of him as he fires. Now his teammate dies, he dies, and then he gets booted. Friendly fire is the result of a bad decision and usually results in a kill for the other team. I think that's penalty enough. Plus, some incidental betrayals are absolutely hilarious.

[TerribleTimbo]

I say completely remove friendly fire.

That's one of the worse things 343 could possibly do to Halo 4.

 

As for the whole betraying thing, I'm not sure. I think the system is fine the way it is now without the whole "bounce damage back" thing you guys are suggesting. Most good players know when a teammate is going to lose a fight and will throw a grenade/shoot a rocket in there before waiting to see if the person dies. Now why should that person have damage bounced back onto them when they were making the best possible decision? Or how many times has an idiot teammate walked right in front of someone with a sniper right when they shot? It wasn't the snipers fault they betrayed them. Or someone ends up accidentally throwing a bad grenade and finishing off a bad teammate? Shooting a bad rocket? Accidentally headshoting the teammate in battle when they are super close to the opponent?

 

Determining whether or not hurting a teammate was done maliciously would be far too difficult to determine.

[ShockGazm]

I like the way you think...

 

 

...On a serious note I do believe there should be a system put in place for those who shoot teammates, even by accident. The player should take the damage, this should go about with a lot of games today and for future reference since it would stop this annoying betrayal situation.

[Lancer]

This system would not work in Halo. This is not CoD. In Halo, committing suicide results in a negative kill for you and your team. I would be on board for removing that from the system, but it's been present for quite a-while. There are plenty of better ways for the betrayal system to work in 4. There's always a better, more efficient way, but you have to keep in mind that one system for one game may not work for another. Halo has more explosions, wider range of bullet fire, and wider range of vehicle damage than a lot of games. CoD doesn't even have vehicles. How many times do you accidentally betray team-mates in CoD vs Halo? You're much more prone to accidentally kill a team-mate in Halo. If I, or even most of you, received a death every time you accidentally killed a team member, you're KD would be at least a third of what it should be. The easiest way to repair this broken system is to not allow friendly-fire, period. shoot a team-mate and nothing happens.

[fzdw11]

But on the flip side of this, how is it my fault if I throw a grenade into a room that's filled with enemies and no teammates, only to have a teammate run in and get betrayed by the grenade? While granted, it wasn't intentional, should I take the damage because of their stupidity? Same goes for the sniper. If I move and happen to get in the way of his shot just as he's taking it, that's my fault, not his, so should he take all of the damage? While you're stopping the people that betray intentionally, you're only hurting the accidental betrayals, and while even accidental betrayals hurt a team, I'd much rather be betrayed by a stray grenade toss than a member of my team shooting me point blank with a shotgun anyday, and no system can determine if something was an accident or not.

 

While the whole betrayal system sucks and the easiest solution is to remove friendly fire, is that the right solution?

[TerribleTimbo]

While the whole betrayal system sucks and the easiest solution is to remove friendly fire, is that the right solution?

Removing friendly fire makes a whole new set of problems. Say on the off chance that 3 or 4 people on the enemie team are all bunched with your 3 teammates. You shoot one rocket and potentially gain entire map control and/or control for the entire game because your teammates would survive it. Or people sticking a teammate and them running around a corner into a packed room/nook.

 

I really have never gotten the complaints about the betrayal system, it works fine with the exception that it doesn't always bring up the option to boot someone (which you'd love to do if you know it was done on purpose).

[fzdw11]

Removing friendly fire makes a whole new set of problems. Say on the off chance that 3 or 4 people on the enemie team are all bunched with your 3 teammates. You shoot one rocket and potentially gain entire map control and/or control for the entire game because your teammates would survive it. Or people sticking a teammate and them running around a corner into a packed room/nook.

 

I really have never gotten the complaints about the betrayal system, it works fine with the exception that it doesn't always bring up the option to boot someone (which you'd love to do if you know it was done on purpose).

 

You've got it. The whole point of friendly fire is to prevent actions like you've stated. If there's no consequence for shooting a rocket into a teammates battle, then that's all we'd ever see, and that's not a good way to play the game. Like I stated, the easiest solution is to remove friendly fire, but you've pointed out exactly why that's not the right solution.

 

The betrayal system isn't what needs an overhaul, it's the boot system, and even then, there isn't any clear options on how to proceed, and that's based more on the community than anything else. You have players who actually take a moment to think about how the betrayal happened, and if it was accidental, they forgive. I'm one of these players, if I get the option to boot, I always look at how it happened. If I feel it was accidental, I'll let it go. But if I respawn next to you and you immediately start firing at me and kill me? Not so much. On the other hand, you have players who automatically just hit the boot buttom, regardless of how the betrayal happened.

 

The best solution would be to make it an automatic boot, and don't let the players have a choice. One betrayal on the game, you're put onto a probation. A second betrayal, and you're automatically booted out, no choice on the player's part.

[Archangel Tyrael]

You've got it. The whole point of friendly fire is to prevent actions like you've stated. If there's no consequence for shooting a rocket into a teammates battle, then that's all we'd ever see, and that's not a good way to play the game. Like I stated, the easiest solution is to remove friendly fire, but you've pointed out exactly why that's not the right solution.

 

The betrayal system isn't what needs an overhaul, it's the boot system, and even then, there isn't any clear options on how to proceed, and that's based more on the community than anything else. You have players who actually take a moment to think about how the betrayal happened, and if it was accidental, they forgive. I'm one of these players, if I get the option to boot, I always look at how it happened. If I feel it was accidental, I'll let it go. But if I respawn next to you and you immediately start firing at me and kill me? Not so much. On the other hand, you have players who automatically just hit the boot buttom, regardless of how the betrayal happened.

 

The best solution would be to make it an automatic boot, and don't let the players have a choice. One betrayal on the game, you're put onto a probation. A second betrayal, and you're automatically booted out, no choice on the player's part.

 

Seems like a good idea, there really needs to be something done about teamkillers though, especially when you get a power weapon/vehicle, or even they just team kill you to just do it 2-5 times in a row without a boot option. you try and get them to go away by shooting them, and you get booted, this has happened to me before, (teamkilling for fun like 3 times) it is so ridiclious, the other times, i can't count. Why is it that Halo is the only game with team mate issues? 343i i hope you are browsing this post and reading it. (Yes i know this isn't 343i actual site..they browse here don't they?Thanks if you are.)

[Lancer]

There's problems with almost every system. The one we have for Halo, works for Halo. I'm not particularly fond of it all the time, but it works good enough for what it is.

[Carts]

Yeah I would have to say the friendly fire system is definiantly not what needs a change, but rather the boot system.

 

I think the player should have a choice, what if at the event of a betrayels, only then we get to see the "killcam" so we get to judge if its accidental or not?

 

They could always go with a L4D style, where a vote can be made anytime and if more then 50% of the team agrees then he is booted.

 

Or go with a completly random, idea I came up with. What if you take a penalty for booting som1 regardless of reasons? It would give players a need to reflect if its really worth it, in other words, will it really help the team? Which is the point of the boot system in the first place? to get ride of habitual/ intentional betrayers?

 

Now what could possibly make people reflect on booting to see if the players removal is worth the punishement? A instant death? A longer respawn? a "time-out" on picking up power weapons or accesing vehicles?

 

I think this could work, I couldnt see why not, other then the obvious penalty on the innocent player, however like mentionned above, the only time a boot is needed is when the team is better off without the player, so a small penalty for the removal of such player could still help the team in the end. But I think the L4D boot system is the best.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Yeah I would have to say the friendly fire system is definiantly not what needs a change, but rather the boot system.

 

I think the player should have a choice, what if at the event of a betrayels, only then we get to see the "killcam" so we get to judge if its accidental or not?

 

They could always go with a L4D style, where a vote can be made anytime and if more then 50% of the team agrees then he is booted.

 

Or go with a completly random, idea I came up with. What if you take a penalty for booting som1 regardless of reasons? It would give players a need to reflect if its really worth it, in other words, will it really help the team? Which is the point of the boot system in the first place? to get ride of habitual/ intentional betrayers?

 

Now what could possibly make people reflect on booting to see if the players removal is worth the punishement? A instant death? A longer respawn? a "time-out" on picking up power weapons or accesing vehicles?

 

I think this could work, I couldnt see why not, other then the obvious penalty on the innocent player, however like mentionned above, the only time a boot is needed is when the team is better off without the player, so a small penalty for the removal of such player could still help the team in the end. But I think the L4D boot system is the best.

 

Yeah but then people would vote boot and the team might just go lolololol and boot you anyways for no reason, that's the problem with l4d boot system.

[VivaLebowski]

If you throw a grenade which kills a teammate who idiotically wanders in front of you, you should die too? There's plenty of games of team doubles me and my bros would have lost as a result of that.

 

Yeah ********* are annoying but if you find yourself having problems with people as much as your posting about this suggests, your doing something wrong. The current system cant solve all the problems but it is good enough. You won't be able to get rid of all jackasses so best not to do anything extraordinary to combat them.

[Archangel Tyrael]

If you throw a grenade which kills a teammate who idiotically wanders in front of you, you should die too? There's plenty of games of team doubles me and my bros would have lost as a result of that.

 

Yeah ********* are annoying but if you find yourself having problems with people as much as your posting about this suggests, your doing something wrong. The current system cant solve all the problems but it is good enough. You won't be able to get rid of all jackasses so best not to do anything extraordinary to combat them.

 

Yes that is what i mean with flaws, this is why i want everyones opinions on this matter, to find the best system possible that the community mostly agrees on to take action agains tthe system we have now. It is horrible, needs a change here and there, and yes i get teamkilled a few times when i want to pick up the sniper or get in a vehicle, and you can't boot when you clearly see themd oing it and they can do it over and over, as i said before. Automatic boot seems good well, to me though, and people need to be more cautious throwing grenades, and using power weapons to avoid such accidents like you said.

[DoctorB77]

I agree with all of that except the part about grenades. Grenades explode...enough said. And "idiots" won't just throw grenades at you but also run into your grenades. So you will lose health for doing nothing wrong still.

[Kurt S-501]

I agree with the idea of taking the damage you inflict upon team-mates except for grenades. You shouldn't be able to die from grenading you'r team-mate but you should loose your shields and most of your health.

[VivaLebowski]

Hmm I agree all around, as long as Grenades and explosives are excepted. The majority of the time, people are shooting at others with small arms like the AR so making that damage rebound would be okay.

[Carts]

What about such events as trying to snipe and a teammate purposly shoves his face in your shot trying to **** you over since he "wanted" the sniper.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Hmm I agree all around, as long as Grenades and explosives are excepted. The majority of the time, people are shooting at others with small arms like the AR so making that damage rebound would be okay.

 

Yeah i agree with the exception of grenades being thrown, but keep rebounded damage, we really need to discuss this boot/betrayl system much more so we can get a good system to challenge the one already have it is so flawed.

 

What about such events as trying to snipe and a teammate purposly shoves his face in your shot trying to **** you over since he "wanted" the sniper.

 

Why we need to discuss this more Carts.

[Carts]

To be honest I think the best solution is to add a ranking system. Give the player a reason to win, not just play for lulz and K/D and no real penalty from bertaying and loosing a match. I dont recall this being as much of an issue in H2 and H3. For the issue of players not knowing when to engage or to throw a nade, well you should exceed there rank in no time and be free of lower skilled players.