How the Betrayl and Team-Mate Damage system should work in Halo: 4.

[Archangel Tyrael]

To be honest I think the best solution is to add a ranking system. Give the player a reason to win, not just play for lulz and K/D and no real penalty from bertaying and loosing a match. I dont recall this being as much of an issue in H2 and H3. For the issue of players not knowing when to engage or to throw a nade, well you should exceed there rank in no time and be free of lower skilled players.

 

The player who betrayed should recieve a penalty, just not to the teams score, maybe -1 kill or +1 death to their record? Skill needs to be implemented, just not with W/L it is so easy to create stacked teams and win lots, it isn't true skill, and it is hard to calculate true skill, and i agree that K/D noobs ruin the game in ways, reason why they betray you for powerweapons/vehicles in the first place mostly.

[Carts]

I agree, if you remove the -1 for the team you could help avoid de-rankers (assuming theres a rank system), and a +1 to death would suffice as a replacement penalty for the current betray systeme. And yes, usually the higher ranking players are so because they play in teams, but that has nothing to do with betrayls.

[Archangel Tyrael]

I agree, if you remove the -1 for the team you could help avoid de-rankers (assuming theres a rank system), and a +1 to death would suffice as a replacement penalty for the current betray systeme. And yes, usually the higher ranking players are so because they play in teams, but that has nothing to do with betrayls.

 

Adding to the ranking system, there should be a playlist for teams/lonewolves, you know if you don't want to fight stacked teams, and keep your rank (you loose it if you lose), or just add social/ranked playlists again, but keep all gametypes for both in my opinion. Now on the betrayl part, there could be a playlist like shadowmagnum said, where there is no teamkilling, but i don't know about that. I want to know your exact thoughts on how the system should be all of it.

[VivaLebowski]

You guys gave me an interesting idea with regards to rank and peoples long term record. Obviously, the difficulty in judging betrayals lies in individual games...its complicated for the game to have to distinguish between an actual intentional betrayal and an accident out of game. Lots of people have a bad game where they rage kill a teammate accidentally kills a teammate. But even noobs who suck are not going to rack up huge amounts of betrayals in a month or two...perhaps the system should credit ban or completely ban people from matchmaking based on the aggregate of their betrayals in any given time period, say a week for conveniences sake. You cant stop someone from being a **** once, but with a feature like this, you can force people to change their long term behavior.

 

That and, something which acts on the player out-of-game based on their stats would likely be much easier to implement since you don't have to write up complicated features. With the modern stat tracking and banning this would prob be easy as long as the system was automated. And keep the current system for in game to prevent really egregious cases.

 

In a nut-shell, the system that does got implemented should be out of game aimed at habitual betrayers, and we can just keep the current in game boot system.

[Zamio]

Sometimes, betrayals are not your fault. One time in Reach, I was playing infection. I was about to shoot a zombie when someone came running in front of me. I shot him and the Zombie killed me.

[BLU3BULL3T97]

First of all, when it comes to being betrayed most people do it just to go lolol, and do it around 2-3 times and get away with not being booted, and this is very annoying.

 

What i have in mind is, if you shoot your teammate insiting on betraying them, you should take the damage from what you have done to them, Rebounded damage. This would also help with noobs throwing grenades trying to help but just makes it worse, making people more skilled knowing when to throw grenade and shoot power weapons and etc.

 

Booting how many kills should it take for someone to get booted in a single game? 2. This is debateable i want to know everyones opinions about this.

That is a bad solution, it is fine the way it is, people think it is bad because they have never experienced how bad it can be, yes you occasionally get that traitor on your team that messes everything up but it could be worse, rebounding damage would make it less realistic and fun.

[Constantly]

Betrayers are gonna betray. It really doesn't happen enough to warrant a change to the game. Plus, If me and a buddy are betraying eachother because there is only one person left on the other team and is crouched in a small nook somewhere, I don't want to get BANNED for it.

[fzdw11]

Understandable, Constantly. I wouldn't want to get banned for that either. But at the same time, if a random walks up to you, shoots you point blank with a shotgun, and you don't get an option to boot, does it upset you? Or how about spawning next to a teammate, only for them to immediately start firing on you and kill you? While betrayers are going to betray, like you said, the problem isn't what you and your buddy are doing. The unfortunate thing is that any betrayal system would apply in that situation as well, because any program written cannot identify what is an accidental (or in this case, intentional between two friends) and an intentional betrayal.

 

While I could understand leaving the system alone entirely, there are always going to be people who complain.

[Archangel Tyrael]

That is a bad solution, it is fine the way it is, people think it is bad because they have never experienced how bad it can be, yes you occasionally get that traitor on your team that messes everything up but it could be worse, rebounding damage would make it less realistic and fun.

 

Game isn't suppose to be realistic, yes it is in the future of "Earth" but it is far from realistic, and you should read all the comments here so you can get caught up with all that has been said.

[Constantly]

Understandable, Constantly. I wouldn't want to get banned for that either. But at the same time, if a random walks up to you, shoots you point blank with a shotgun, and you don't get an option to boot, does it upset you? Or how about spawning next to a teammate, only for them to immediately start firing on you and kill you? While betrayers are going to betray, like you said, the problem isn't what you and your buddy are doing. The unfortunate thing is that any betrayal system would apply in that situation as well, because any program written cannot identify what is an accidental (or in this case, intentional between two friends) and an intentional betrayal.

 

While I could understand leaving the system alone entirely, there are always going to be people who complain.

 

Ya. It sucks when someone blatently betrays you. But that's just the kind of stuff you get when you play with so many different people. People will teabag, people will betray, people will just repeatedly jump off the map, and people will quit early. 343i won't be able to fix stupid, unfortunately.

[My BR iZ RusTyy]

I think there should be a system where if you betrayed a certain number of times in a set number of games you get banned from matchmaking, and if you create a new account and go over the limit again you get XBL banned.

 

Say for example 343 monitor 5 of your games and if you get a total of 7 betrayals you get banned (or a warning)

 

Also keep the current boot option, and I like the idea of removing the -1 penalty for committing suicide, it'll discourage de-ranking to a certain degree. Perhaps substitute it with a 20 second respawn delay.

[fzdw11]

I think there should be a system where if you betrayed a certain number of times in a set number of games you get banned from matchmaking, and if you create a new account and go over the limit again you get XBL banned.

 

Say for example 343 monitor 5 of your games and if you get a total of 7 betrayals you get banned (or a warning)

 

Also keep the current boot option, and I like the idea of removing the -1 penalty for committing suicide, it'll discourage de-ranking to a certain degree. Perhaps substitute it with a 20 second respawn delay.

 

The problem doesn't fall squarely on the betrayals, though. Like I said in an earlier post, it comes down to the community and the boot option. There are people that boot for any betrayal, regardless of how it happened. What you're saying also doesn't cover something like Constantly said. If him and his buddy are betraying each other for the fun of it, not caring about the lone player left on the other team, is it fair for them to get banned? Or how about a tank shot that misses a vehicle and flies another 100 feet before hitting you, is it fair for the driver to get banned because of an accidental shot that wasn't intended to hit you in the first place?

 

The betrayal system needs to stay the same, period. It's the boot system that needs an overhaul.

[My BR iZ RusTyy]

The problem doesn't fall squarely on the betrayals, though. Like I said in an earlier post, it comes down to the community and the boot option. There are people that boot for any betrayal, regardless of how it happened. What you're saying also doesn't cover something like Constantly said. If him and his buddy are betraying each other for the fun of it, not caring about the lone player left on the other team, is it fair for them to get banned? Or how about a tank shot that misses a vehicle and flies another 100 feet before hitting you, is it fair for the driver to get banned because of an accidental shot that wasn't intended to hit you in the first place?

 

The betrayal system needs to stay the same, period. It's the boot system that needs an overhaul.

 

Yeah my idea is harsh I will admit

 

Though I've personally never killed a teammate via a tank shell I have shot my teammate in the face with a sniper rifle as he/she passed by me.

 

To be honest if friend "A" and friend "B" are bored in a game and want to betray each other then they should be penalized, its not what Halo is for, if they want to betray each other go to a custom game.

 

My idea isn't ideal but I'm enjoying hearing other peoples thoughts.

[Carts]

The problem doesn't fall squarely on the betrayals, though. Like I said in an earlier post, it comes down to the community and the boot option. There are people that boot for any betrayal, regardless of how it happened. What you're saying also doesn't cover something like Constantly said. If him and his buddy are betraying each other for the fun of it, not caring about the lone player left on the other team, is it fair for them to get banned? Or how about a tank shot that misses a vehicle and flies another 100 feet before hitting you, is it fair for the driver to get banned because of an accidental shot that wasn't intended to hit you in the first place?

 

The betrayal system needs to stay the same, period. It's the boot system that needs an overhaul.

 

You cant change the community, but for fixing the "boot happy" players I'd say the best cure is a rank system. Add a "tip" that shows when you load that says "Carefull about banning accidental betrayls, it could just hurt your chances of ranking up!". People will want to rank up, and will realise Halo is a game that requires a team to win.

[Archangel Tyrael]

So, out of what everyone one said, there should be re-bound damage, just not with power weapons and grenades, and a automatic boot system after 2 betrayls on any team-mate, plus the betrayl will not count towards the team mates score so it will not effect the game, and the person betraying will suffer a -1kill and +1 death for the offense. Is this what we want or, should we change it more and try and press it onto 343i.

[fzdw11]

I don't think adding all of that together would make a good system, though. The rebounding damage is a good idea, but it hurts the accidental sniper shot or the stupid player running into a thrown grenade. Not rebounding damage off of power weapons or grenades is pointless. If it's one weapon, it needs to be all weapons. The auto boot after 2 betrayals, while it would work, there isn't any mercy with it, and accidental betrayals are still punished by being booted. Not counting towards the teammates score (deaths), and they betrayer themselves taking -1 kill and +1 death, is that punishment enough? Are people going to worry about K/D so much in Halo 4?

 

So that basically says, while we came up with a bunch of ideas, they definitely need more refinement.

 

What about a system where betraying deranks you? That may work, like Carts suggested.

[Archangel Tyrael]

I don't think adding all of that together would make a good system, though. The rebounding damage is a good idea, but it hurts the accidental sniper shot or the stupid player running into a thrown grenade. Not rebounding damage off of power weapons or grenades is pointless. If it's one weapon, it needs to be all weapons. The auto boot after 2 betrayals, while it would work, there isn't any mercy with it, and accidental betrayals are still punished by being booted. Not counting towards the teammates score (deaths), and they betrayer themselves taking -1 kill and +1 death, is that punishment enough? Are people going to worry about K/D so much in Halo 4?

 

So that basically says, while we came up with a bunch of ideas, they definitely need more refinement.

 

What about a system where betraying deranks you? That may work, like Carts suggested.

 

Yeah, maybe there needs to be a ranking system in halo4, so people will not care much for K/D and teamkill for power weapons, and make people realise you got to be part of the team. Yes, -1kill and +1death should serve the teamkiller for what they have done, and atleast have a automatic boot/Ban from matchmaking or something of that nature. So many ideas..and figuring out how to put them into a good system is hard. Come on guys give out more ideas and refinement, and lets make the boot/betrayl system better!

[fzdw11]

What about this.

 

You keep the automatic boot after two betrayals, removing the ability for the community to be boot happy. You also add in a deranking process that gets progressively harsher the more you betray. For example, 10 betrayals you lose a rank (be it a True Skill rank of 1-50 or a physical military rank like Captain). You hit 20 betrayals, you lose 2 ranks, and every five after that, you lose a rank cumulatively (25 and you lose 3, 30 and you lose 4, etc. etc.).

 

Thoughts?

[Carts]

Im not too fond of the rebound damage and auto-boot idea, I still believe mercy is required.

 

But what if instead the game notices the FF damage you deliver within a game. Say it noticed you damaged your teamates enough that it could have killed 2 teammates. At this moment, the last player to take damage gets to make a boot decision, whether they died or not. After this point, the option returns after every value of a betrayals worth of damage has been done. (And this reminds me, it would be cool to have an end game stat on damage given/taken to teammates and ennemies).

 

This could help for those players following you around damaging you but never actually killing you. And the actual kill betrayls will still give the option after 2 betrayals.

[Nohbdy]

While I don't want to detract from the value of your collective arguments, I like friendly fire!!! It allows for some good comic relief and often occurs on purpose only to communicate. Such as, I just killed the guy in that tank, I should have it, so I punch you, your sheildgoes down! Also, in order to be fair in the game, you shouldn't overly punish a betrayl. 2 betrayals of the same or different players within a short amount of time, or many over a long time, result in booting. to often do I find myself accidentaly killing someone and getting insta-booted while the guy obviously scheming with the other team gets away clean! Rebounding damage on friendly fire is like backhanding a small child for running into you on a playground! Halo is a game the can be serious or lighthearted, at the same time! Please don't try to take that away!

[Zuko 'Zarhamee]

Rebounding damage on friendly fire is like backhanding a small child for running into you on a playground!

[Archangel Tyrael]

While I don't want to detract from the value of your collective arguments, I like friendly fire!!! It allows for some good comic relief and often occurs on purpose only to communicate. Such as, I just killed the guy in that tank, I should have it, so I punch you, your sheildgoes down! Also, in order to be fair in the game, you shouldn't overly punish a betrayl. 2 betrayals of the same or different players within a short amount of time, or many over a long time, result in booting. to often do I find myself accidentaly killing someone and getting insta-booted while the guy obviously scheming with the other team gets away clean! Rebounding damage on friendly fire is like backhanding a small child for running into you on a playground! Halo is a game the can be serious or lighthearted, at the same time! Please don't try to take that away!

 

Team-Killers need to be punished, Reach's multiplayer has a bundance of these idiots, only halo game i ever really had a problem with this. If you want to communicate buy a mic or use it, or use some sort of messaging from a computer with your friends. Our ideas need work yes, but we are trying to find a way to make it severe to team-killers and make it fair same time.

[VivaLebowski]

It really is worth pointing out with this that this simply is not a big issue and there are definitely more important things to be attended to.

 

343 shouldn't be spending an inordinate amount of time improving what is already a decent time, especially so since any possible solution they implement has at least a big a chance of unfairly restricting peoples freedom as actually being effective.

 

If you are having so many problems with betrayers such that you disagree with that, its likely your doing something wrong in game.

[Archangel Tyrael]

It really is worth pointing out with this that this simply is not a big issue and there are definitely more important things to be attended to.

 

343 shouldn't be spending an inordinate amount of time improving what is already a decent time, especially so since any possible solution they implement has at least a big a chance of unfairly restricting peoples freedom as actually being effective.

 

If you are having so many problems with betrayers such that you disagree with that, its likely your doing something wrong in game.

 

How are we doing something wrong in game? I am good with snipes, rocks, shotty, i just have some random idiot who sucks come up and team kill me for it and waste all the ammo in about 2-7 of my matches, it is annoying. They need to work on it, not as much as other things but they do, this system sucks.

[VivaLebowski]

How are we doing something wrong in game? I am good with snipes, rocks, shotty, i just have some random idiot who sucks come up and team kill me for it and waste all the ammo in about 2-7 of my matches, it is annoying. They need to work on it, not as much as other things but they do, this system sucks.

 

How often does this happen to you? Do you manage to get your hands on the power weapons every single game? They system might need "improvement" but its unfair to say it "sucks". The game is not broke because of this.