BxR in halo 4

[Fayterinho]

I disagree that it should come back. Although skill gaps should exist, BxR and BxB aren't the right way to go about it.

 

QFT

[Twinreaper]

Calling me out huh? Listen boy, there were so many things wrong with just about everything you stated. A cheap trick is something a player uses by exploiting bugs in the programming code to achieve an advantage over another player. BxR and BxB and any amount of multiple projectile shooting is a cheap trick. These things were not meant to happen, and unfortunatly since it's an issue with the core engine it was not patchable, otherwise it would have been. Even Bungie themselves said that button combo exploits were cheating. get a clue. Button combos were easy to pull off, especially with bullet and reticule magnetism. Anyone who pratices it, needs to learn a real way to play. In fact, most servers DO NOT ALLOW this type of combo to be used. Some will allow it in slight moderation, but for the most part they frown on it. There is no skill involved with using it, and anyone who thinks there is, sucks at doing the combo then. I've seen complete new players play Halo 2 for the first time, and just try to use it based on videos they may have seen, and they pull it off perfect without missing.

 

I lost my creditability? Really? So you know me personally? You have known and played with me for years? How about this troll ****, go onto a Monstrmoose server and ask around about me. That will tell you everything you need to know.

 

Halo 3 was just as fast paced as Halo 2. The only thing that made Halo 3 even slightly slower than halo 2 if at all, was the way in which the newer weapons added functioned. The core metrics used to make MM was the same exact settings and values that Halo 2 had. All the player movement and weapon functions were nearly identical and indistiguishable to a non-programmer/modder.

 

You can all say what you want about this topic, but the fact remains that the very definition of a cheap trick or hack applies to button combos. The BxR and all other button combos were not purposely put in or intended. Further, there is no tag definition value that they could use to simulate this effect outside a code bug. The tag system and engine is not setup to allow this type of combo to be a core feature. Get over it and try using some other weapons in the game, there are plenty to choose from.

[Constantly]

Anyway. It's clear that they wouldn't add anything like this because it would widen the skill gap. This would negate all the hard work that was put into Reach to close it.

[fzdw11]

Anyway. It's clear that they wouldn't add anything like this because it would widen the skill gap. This would negate all the hard work that was put into Reach to close it.

But the problem with this is it was never an intentional thing, and like Twin said, Bungie couldn't fix it, it was a flaw in the coding. You're right that it won't be put in, but not because of it widening the skill gap, but because it was an error, and they wouldn't intentionally put an error back into the game.

 

The skill gap is going to be widened further by them taking bloom back out, but I agree that they are trying to make the game more casual friendly. Still, I'm planning on getting it and playing it, and as long as it plays well, I'll be happy.

[DoctorB77]

BxR was in halo 2.

That's where it should stay

 

Agreed. I don't think that I will be a problem. I don't see how a glitch would be able to come back.

[CandiBunni]

Anyway. It's clear that they wouldn't add anything like this because it would widen the skill gap. This would negate all the hard work that was put into Reach to close it.

 

Even if it was possible to emulate these things, they still wouldn't add them into the game. They were, as others have said, cheap exploits that people used to gain an advantage. Whether or not anyone could use them is a moot point. The game was not designed with these things in mind, and so there is no balancing in place for them. Like Twinreaper said, even Bungie considered them to be cheating. That's not because they couldn't pull them off themselves. That's not because they didn't want a wide skill gap. It's because people were exploiting bugs within the game to win situations they wouldn't have had they played legitimately and just for the simple fact that they were exploiting bugs period.

 

It's perfectly fine to widen the skill gap, but button combos are far from the correct way to do so.

[CallMe KYRRUPT]

like i said, completely lost faith in this community.

 

all theyve done since h2 was dumb down the game in hopes of targeting a wider range of players. they want people to play it for the first time and be good instead of working to find out tricks and strategies to give them the edge. which they've obviously succeeded in after reading these posts. they take out what makes halo special and conclusively this franchise will be continually beat to a pulp by other games. it's sad to see corporations sell out and stray away from what made people love the game. there's a reason people still play h2, not because of button combos in general but because the game was a work of art as a whole. button combos and the speed of the game were two of the many key components in halo 2, and without them halo will continue to be mediocre at best.

 

Also when i think of "cheap trick" i think of cheating to win. button combos werent a cheat since they were used in mlg. it was a commonly used ability, and since everyone who played the game eventually learned them it's not really putting anyone at a distinct advantage. if anything it should be compared to streetfighter. when you get pooped on because you dont know how to hadouken or whatever.

 

twinreaper, i dont really post on forums, in fact i made this acc just because i saw this thread.

Edited April 26, 2012 by One

[CandiBunni]

like i said, completely lost faith in this community.

 

all theyve done since h2 was dumb down the game in hopes of targeting a wider range of players. they want people to play it for the first time and be good instead of working to find out tricks and strategies to give them the edge. which they've obviously succeeded in after reading these posts. they take out what makes halo special and conclusively this franchise will be continually beat to a pulp by other games. it's sad to see corporations sell out and stray away from what made people love the game. there's a reason people still play h2, not because of button combos in general but because the game was a work of art as a whole. button combos and the speed of the game were two of the many key components in halo 2, and without them halo will continue to be mediocre at best.

 

Also when i think of "cheap trick" i think of cheating to win. button combos werent a cheat since they were used in mlg. it was a commonly used ability, and since everyone who played the game eventually learned them it's not really putting anyone at a distinct advantage. if anything it should be compared to streetfighter. when you get pooped on because you dont know how to hadouken or whatever.

 

twinreaper, i dont really post on forums, in fact i made this acc just because i saw this thread. However, youre still a fktard who doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

Just because they were used in MLG does not mean they were not cheap or cheating. They were bugs in the game that people exploited to win and gain the upper hand in encounters when they shouldn't have done so. I have no doubt that someone has used something like the BXR or other button combos to win in a fight they should have died in. Whether or not anyone can do them or how precise you have to time them doesn't matter. They were never meant to be in the game and were not balanced because of this. They are not legitimate tactics or features because they are exploiting bugs within the game and were never meant to be a part of the experience. They are not properly using any systems in the game. I personally would take the word of the company responsible for the game over that of the MLG Community when it comes to whether or not button combos are cheap and cheating. That does not mean that I'm incapable of thinking for myself, because regardless of what Bungie would have thought I would still consider these button combos to be such.

 

Your comparison to a move in Street Fighter is poor if I may say so. The hadouken was a move intentionally placed in the game. It was something that the developers intended to have and something they worked to create. It wasn't an exploitation of any kind, unlike button combos.

 

I'd recommend not insulting people and calling them things like "fktard". If someone goes and starts calling you names or personally attacking you, do the right thing and don't stoop to doing something like that.

[CallMe KYRRUPT]

Just because they were used in MLG does not mean they were not cheap or cheating. They were bugs in the game that people exploited to win and gain the upper hand in encounters when they shouldn't have done so. I have no doubt that someone has used something like the BXR or other button combos to win in a fight they should have died in. Whether or not anyone can do them or how precise you have to time them doesn't matter. They were never meant to be in the game and were not balanced because of this. They are not legitimate tactics or features because they are exploiting bugs within the game and were never meant to be used. I personally would take the word of the company responsible for the game over that of the MLG Community when it comes to whether or not button combos are cheap and cheating. That does not mean that I'm incapable of thinking for myself, because regardless of what Bungie would have thought I would still consider these button combos to be such.

 

Your comparison to a move in Street Fighter is poor. The hadouken was a move intentionally placed in the game. It wasn't an exploitation of any kind, unlike button combos.

 

I'd recommend not insulting people and calling them things like "fktard". We all know what you mean by that, despite the incomplete spelling.

 

 

 

this is what makes us different, you would take the word of a company who hardly plays their own game over the word of the community who actually spent hours of free time playing it.

 

my street fighter comparison is spot on. just because button combos weren't meant to be in the game doesn't mean they didn't evolve into a part of the game. hadouken and bxr were both used as common techniques in a persons gameplay. the only way people would have an advantage in knowing how to do this is if the other person didnt. which is exactly the same for streetfighter.

Edited April 26, 2012 by One

[CandiBunni]

yes fktard means ******** obviously.

 

this is what makes us different, you would take the word of a company who hardly plays their own game over the word of the community who actually spent hours of free time playing it.

 

my street fighter comparison is spot on. just because button combos weren't meant to be in the game doesn't mean they didn't evolve into a part of the game. hadouken and bxr were both used as common techniques in a persons gameplay. the only way people would have an advantage in knowing how to do this is if the other person didnt. which is exactly the same for streetfighter.

 

I would take their opinion over that of MLG's in this instance, not necessarily in every single other. The developer decides what is and isn't a legitimate feature in the game, not the player base. They were the ones who designed and created the game we play and as such I believe they are in control over what is considered cheating and what isn't. If they say an exploitation is cheap/cheating, then to me it is so.

 

I said that your comparison poor because you were attempting to compare a legitimate feature/move that was designed to be a part of the game, one that the developers had control over and could tweak until they felt it functioned how they wished, to a bug that people exploited by using a series of button presses. One was actually designed and was meant to be in the game for players to use, something developers could easily tweak the settings of (in today's current updating system) The other was a bug found and then exploited to perform an action you should not be able to and which could give the user an undeserved advantage in a game and was something that developers could not fix.

[CallMe KYRRUPT]

I would take their opinion over that of MLG's in this instance, not necessarily in every single other. The developer decides what is and isn't a legitimate feature in the game, not the player base. They were the ones who designed and created the game we play and as such I believe they are in control over what is considered cheating and what isn't. If they say an exploitation is cheap/cheating, then to me it is so.

 

I said that your comparison poor because you were attempting to compare a legitimate feature/move that was designed to be a part of the game, one that the developers had control over and could tweak until they felt it functioned how they wished, to a bug that people exploited by using a series of button presses. One was actually designed and was meant to be in the game for players to use, something developers could easily tweak the settings of (in today's current updating system) The other was a bug found and then exploited to perform an action you should not be able to and which could give the user an undeserved advantage in a game and was something that developers could not fix.

 

imo developers should always create a game around what the community of players finds great about a game. i understand that button combos weren't meant to be in the game but the point of this thread is to get them back in, this time legitimately. i'd also like to see where they said it was a cheaptrick/cheating because i doubt bungie played their game enough to be aware of it. its possible though.

 

also the more i talk with you guys, the more abundantly clear it is to me that button combos will never resurface in future titles. the whole community that enjoyed these features has obviously moved on, and i should too. there are just too many people that never experienced h2 and loved h3 and reach for them to implement theses features. guess halo is just gonna be a rent title for me from now on.

[CandiBunni]

Here are some quotes taken from Bungie.net that I managed to find. Keep in mind that these are old quotes, but they still apply none the less. I have taken them directly, word for word from the Bungie.net website.

 

"Posted by: Shiska

Cheating or not, it is the exploitation of a bug in the game (yes, kids, bug and glitch are synonymous), and nothing more. It's no better than superbouncing, and users have every right to give you negative feedback for cheating if you use it in matchmaking as they do if you superbounce."

 

"Posted by: Achronos

Here are the facts - these aren't "opinions", or whatever word you are using to avoid what you don't want to hear.

 

1. Any use of a glitch/bug in a game to acquire an advantage is cheating on Xbox Live. This includes but is not limited to superbouncing, flag through the wall tricks, leaving the map boundaries, triggering an animation bug using a sequence of button presses (BXR, etc.)

2. Anytime you see someone cheating, you should leave feedback on them, but it is up to you whether to do so. You define whether an action is cheating - you can define the above actions as normal, or be hardcore and define all of them as cheating. Since you're the one reporting the cheater, you get to be the ultimate arbiter of if cheating is occuring. This is a very obvious thing to say, but most people don't understand this.

3. Different organizations have different rules. When you're on Xbox Live, you have to deal with our rules (which are in point 1 and 2). This means that anybody who is bringing up "what MLG does" needs to pull their head out of their ass and look around. Are we talking about an MLG tournament? Is this the MLG web site? No! That means that we're talking about Bungie rules for playing on Xbox Live. MLG is free to define whatever rules they want, and in their rules, button combos are part of the game. Super jumping (I believe) is not. But as what they do is off topic to this discussion, you need to stop talking about it like it matters to what happens on Xbox Live, because it doesn't."

 

"Posted by: Ninja On Fire

Exploiting any bug in the game while using matchmaking is cheating."

 

"Posted by:Achronos

It doesn't really matter what is in the cheating FAQ - the FAQ is meant mostly to inform people about the banhammer (which is used for modding and standby type cheating only). All other kinds fall under the standard usage of every other Xbox Live game - as in, use the feedback system if you see someone cheating. Exploiting a bug (superjumping, animation glitches like BXR) are against the terms of use, and therefore should be reported using the feedback system. Enough feedback actually will get someone banned for various lengths of time from ALL of Xbox Live, not just Halo 2.

 

Again - our rule is simple: glitch exploiting is cheating. Modding is glitch exploiting. Superjumping is glitch explotiing. Animation interrupting is glitch exploiting. Etc.

 

You seem be trying to place some kind of relative ranking to how "serious" an exploit is, and that determines if it is cheating. If that is the case, then the only people who get to decide such a "ranking" are the people who run the sandbox you're playing in (us if your on Live, MLG if you're at a tournment of theirs, or you if you're on your own LAN). In that case, I'm right, and animation glitches like BXR are an exploit and are cheating.

 

Here's the fun part - if we're not going by "ranking the exploit" and instead apply a standard policy, I'm STILL right and BXRs and such are cheating, because we TOLD you this policy when you got an Xbox Live account (read the terms of use).

 

Now, I'm really sorry this seems sudden to you, but as you've already indicated... you don't play in our sandbox (Matchmaking), so it really doesn't matter that you don't like what we think about those glitches. In the hypothetical, though, you're going to need a better argument than the ones you've been presenting so far.

 

Anyway, exploiting a bug equals cheating on Xbox Live. If you're playing in an MLG tournament, they define what is cheating there, and obviously the Xbox Live rules don't apply.

 

But when you're in our sandbox, you play by our rules, and if you don't like them, well, it sucks to be you. And we don't ban anybody for BXRs or superjumping by the way - they are community served bans. The feedback system is the means by which players are voicing their opinion on this. And guess what, they agree with us.

 

At least our reasoning is simple and well defined (it can be summed up in one sentence and has been in the Xbox Live Terms of use from day one). You, on the other, have presented no valid defense of exploiting glitches in the game other than by calling "illegitimate." I think you should look up the definition of that word, you can't call a rule "illegitimate" if it comes from the people who own the sandbox (Xbox Live). Ever wonder why backpack reloading was taken out of Halo 2, even though it was a widely used aspect of Halo 1 play? All those who said "because it was a bug" get a cookie. Now, let's take some bets... what happens to people who depend only on glitches to win games when Halo 3 comes out? Anybody have some guesses there?

 

You have too look at it beyond that though. Take it case by case instead of comparing it. Button combos have been declared cheating for technical and illegitimate reasons. Plain and simple.

 

1. Yes, exploiting a glitch is cheating in matchmaking, and no, I don't care that MLG players use the button combos. They're still glitches."

 

"Posted by: Ninja 0n Fire

The intentional exploitation of any bug while in the matchmaking environment is cheating, especially if it provides the user with an advantage or alters gameplay in an unintended way.

 

You can forget all of your qualifiers, such as whether or not all players can do it or the skill level required to perform the exploit. Those factors do not come into consideration when making these determinations.

 

Just because it's a behavioral problem which we don't automatically detect and ban you for, doesn't mean it isn't cheating. That's what the Xbox Live feedback system is there for, if you feel that someone exploiting a bug is unfair, leave feedback.

 

All that said, you really should play the game without exploiting bugs, because if you ever do get matched against a Bungie employee and we witness you cheating or even being excessively vulgar or offensive, we most certainly can speed up the process of you being removed from the general population of Halo 2."

 

This is where it was stated that they were cheating. Also, Halo has hardly become more simple with each iteration. In Halo 3 you had whatever gameplay elements were present in Halo 2 with the addition of Equipment. Halo: Reach advanced further by requiring users to focus on the timing of their shots to maintain accuracy and kill quickly and efficiently. You also had thing like armour abilities which changed how people reacted and fought in different encounters.

[MCPO Mayh3m]

whats BxR? i have know idea *feels left out*

 

You poor soul... did you play Halo 2?

[iTz KeeFy]

B

[CandiBunni]

This forum is becoming a joke. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to attack them. Just agree to disagree, nothing good will come out of you folks hating on each others opinions. To be honest we have no say in the development of halo and we never will. 343 is going to do whatever they feel is best, period.

 

I have never once attacked anyone in this thread or other threads when I've posted. I'm not hating on his opinion, I'm explaining why I believe button combos are cheating and am giving direct quotes from Bungie and staff as to why they are cheating. Neither one of us has attacked the other, this has been a completely civil debate between he and I. (At least I personally think so.)

[iTz KeeFy]

I wasnt calling you out, sorry I meant just in general. Why did my post get deleted tho.......

Edit: now.it just says B. Im confused

[TerribleTimbo]

Although bxb, bxr, and the double/quad shot were glitches, they did help create a wider skill gap for competitive play. As much fun, and frustrating, they were to use in Halo 2, I wouldn't want to see them back because they were glitches and weren't indended to be in the game.

[BLiX]

I completly love the BR so much i am so glad it is in halo 4

[SixWaysToSunday]

like i said, completely lost faith in this community.

 

all theyve done since h2 was dumb down the game in hopes of targeting a wider range of players. they want people to play it for the first time and be good instead of working to find out tricks and strategies to give them the edge. which they've obviously succeeded in after reading these posts. they take out what makes halo special and conclusively this franchise will be continually beat to a pulp by other games. it's sad to see corporations sell out and stray away from what made people love the game. there's a reason people still play h2, not because of button combos in general but because the game was a work of art as a whole. button combos and the speed of the game were two of the many key components in halo 2, and without them halo will continue to be mediocre at best.

 

Also when i think of "cheap trick" i think of cheating to win. button combos werent a cheat since they were used in mlg. it was a commonly used ability, and since everyone who played the game eventually learned them it's not really putting anyone at a distinct advantage. if anything it should be compared to streetfighter. when you get pooped on because you dont know how to hadouken or whatever.

 

twinreaper, i dont really post on forums, in fact i made this acc just because i saw this thread.

 

Just wondering but did you come here to intentionally piss people off because youve certainly made me angry and it looks like a few others as well.

[USDevilDog117]

A little off topic, anyone notice the name on one of the buildings on the halo 3 map longshore was BXR?

[buntyboy34]

they should definitely bring back the bxr and double shot! it was a fun way of distinguishing the pros from the nubs. its not cheating at all because anyone can do it. the people who are against it are those who dont play the game enough to wanna try it out so why would they agree? I think it would be neat to have it as an option in a playlist. like those who are for it could choose that playlist where double shots and bxrs are availible and those who have a problem with it can choose a different play list. everyone wins.

[Skittlze]

Ya bungie defined BXR as cheating but MLG didn't so when you played on live it was considered cheating even though in my opinion the fact that everybody could do it without modding anything made it plenty fair. in MLG it wasn't cheating and gave some really awesome moment where people thought oh **** did that really just happen. If 343 had brought back button combos then it wouldn't be cheating it would be a fair intentional part of the game. I didnt make this thread to see if people thought it was cheating back in the good old halo 2 days i made it to see if people thought bringing them back and increasing the skill gap would be a good idea for halo 4. Yes I know it is far too late for 343 to do this but it was just hypothetic

It isnt about wheather it WAS of WAS NOT cheating its about wheather or not it could make for better gameplay which i thought it did in MLG

[jessy]

That is actually the Doubleshot, which took skill.

 

 

 

And Bungie knew about the glitch for a very long time and yet did nothing about it. That tells you something. Not to mention that MLG allowed players to do it in competitive tournaments. So, for the people that say it didnt take skill, are probably just mad because they could never do it. Id be suprised just how many people on this site actually played Halo 2 and were actually any good at it.

 

>2004

act like bungie cared or was at all concerned with the bxr glitch or had any viable way of patching it that wouldnt cost them millions.

[Blank Space]

ya bring it back =p ... anyone could do it... just need to aim and be fast... lazy people these days ... edit: I know it will never happen ... but it was a point of skill that I missed in halo and super jumps were just fun for messing around with when u wanted a break

[Cortar]

>2004

act like bungie cared or was at all concerned with the bxr glitch or had any viable way of patching it that wouldnt cost them millions.

 

Fail, they knew about it BEFORE the title update and yet they didn't include a fix in it? Hmmm....